http://www.wral.com/fast-food-strikes-set-for-cities-nationwide/12829652/

They wan't to unionize and demand $15/hr. For flipping burgers and making tacos. It is called it unskilled labor for a reason. Am I wrong to think that $15/hr for such work is a little high?

8/29/2013 7:08:48 AM

It's a negotiation, start a little high and hopefully they can meet in the middle

8/29/2013 7:30:08 AM

if employees are still showing up, then you are paying them enough.

8/29/2013 7:30:54 AM

I think it is ridiculous to ask for that much, considering some starting teachers in the poorer counties of this state barely make much more than $15/hr.

Want more money? Work hard and ask for a raise. Try to get that promotion to shift lead. Work a double shift when the lazy f'er on second shift calls in. Hell shoot for the stars - make your way up to asst. store mgr.

8/29/2013 8:39:48 AM

I think it's ridiculous to pay so little, which forces workers to use government services. My tax dollars pay for their healthcare. Take care of your own!

Food service didn't used to be unskilled. It was engineered that way to justify treating people like shit and allow paying low wages. That's what concentrating on one variable, price, gets you--shit food, uninspired work, and no respect for the poor bastards doing it.


[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 9:10 AM. Reason : A]

8/29/2013 9:06:12 AM

but if you have to pay them all $15/hr, then fewer will be hired and you'll just be paying for even more services for them

8/29/2013 9:13:02 AM

And you honestly think your tax dollars will go anywhere else if they got $15/hr?

Remind me when we considered fast food skilled labor? I'm 33 and I don't ever remember a time when it wasn't, which probably gives me about 20 years real perspective on the matter. What I do remember though is that these types of jobs were entry level jobs that were springboards for learning how to work. Since when did these types of jobs become careers? Also, with that much money, you're probably not really inspring some people to do anything different.

8/29/2013 9:15:36 AM

The modern fast food industry started in the 1950s so you probably wouldn't remember. When did these jobs become careers? Thats just PR from the fast food industry.

8/29/2013 9:22:45 AM

But if they can find plenty of people willing to work for the current pay, how is $15/hr justified?

8/29/2013 9:25:36 AM

They'll just automate the rest of the jobs away.

All problems are nails and solved with market hammer!

8/29/2013 9:33:22 AM

Quote :

"It's a negotiation, start a little high and hopefully they can meet in the middle"

I 100% get that but my first reaction to $15/hour was LOL. I mean, you have to come to the table with something realistic to be taken serious. The article says that $15/hour is almost double what they are earning now. You'd think a start high and meet in the middle point would have been closer to $10/hour.

Good luck for the career fast food workers. Not only does unskilled labor pay little but I'm sure many strikers will find out that unskilled labor is easy to replace.

8/29/2013 10:35:09 AM

we should abolish minimum wage

8/29/2013 10:59:29 AM

^

Certainly in an era where the lower class is growing and less and less prepared to deal with the world. Maybe when they are sufficiently desperate we can just turn them into gladiators where they fight each other to the death. Think of the revenue you'd make on pay per view! Wasn't there a book about this?

8/29/2013 11:30:22 AM

Yes, you're right. It should be illegal to work for less than 7.25 an hour.

8/29/2013 11:32:13 AM

^^ its better to make nothing than something? If someone wants to work, why should they not be allowed to?

8/29/2013 11:33:18 AM

According to the Atlantic, Mcdonald's workers in Australia make the equivalent of $14.50/hour. So I can understand why workers would want to start the negotiations around that price.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/the-magical-world-where-mcdonalds-pays-15-an-hour-its-australia/278313/

8/29/2013 11:34:10 AM

The cost of living is also much higher there.

8/29/2013 11:35:26 AM

but it shows that $15 is not that outrageous. Its just a starting point, if I'm a fast food worker I'll take less than that.

8/29/2013 11:38:41 AM

McDonald's workers here, in Santa Monica, make $13.82 our minimum wage. So, we can pretend to be a surf town and not just a town where you can get a $300 bottle of wine with dinner while watching the sunset over the ocean.

Quote :

"^^ its better to make nothing than something? If someone wants to work, why should they not be allowed to?"

At the moment, and this isn't true for all moments in history, opportunity for the bottom is shrinking. I'm not sure they want to, so much as have no other options. I just don't think there are decent solutions to help the new unemployed white.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 11:40:22 AM

And if you are a fast food worker competing against other people qualified for a $8/hr job, how do you feel about your chances keeping your job when suddenly you have to compete with people at $15/hr?

Basically, the issue is that increasing the salary won't raise the quality of life for these workers because they won't be qualified for their job anymore. If they are qualified to make $15/hr, then why aren't they somewhere else making $15/hr?

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

8/29/2013 11:41:03 AM

Price is the only thing people compete on. That's why I worry about my job being taken by my coworker that makes 1/3 what I do.

I highly disagree that $15/hr isn't more than $8/hr. I made $8/hr as a pizza worker and I didn't have money to do shit, but when I made $15/hr as an intern I lived like Don King.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 11:43:43 AM

If they suddenly doubled the salary for your position, you would probably find yourself out of a job since you would now be competing with much more qualified people

8/29/2013 11:45:21 AM

Quote :

"If they suddenly doubled the salary for your position, you would probably find yourself out of a job since you would now be competing with much more qualified people "

I'm just saying there are many other factors, how well they negotiate is one, and it's not linear.

8/29/2013 11:53:05 AM

its not the only thing, no, but you would be out of a job

8/29/2013 12:01:01 PM

Quote :

"I'm Striking Because I Can Barely Afford To Eat On My McDonald's Salary"

Quote :

"McDonald's worker Nick Williams is one of thousands of fast food workers striking today to demand better wages. Williams started working as a cashier at an Indianapolis McDonald's in March 2012 making $7.25 an hour — the federal minimum wage. A year later, he was promoted to line cook and was given hourly pay of $8.25. Williams told Business Insider his take-home pay is just under $800 a month. While his job is nearly full-time, Williams, 28, says his schedule is always capped off at 38 or 39 hours per week, making him ineligible for insurance benefits. More than half of that goes to rent on the 2-bedroom apartment he shares with his chronically ill mother and disabled brother. The remaining $335 goes toward food, transportation and medical bills. "I work almost every day and am eager for any shift they give me," Williams said. "I do everything I can to be a hard worker. It's disheartening when you can't even make ends meet." Williams applied for food stamps, but was told his income was too high to qualify. Sometimes, his free employee meal at McDonald's is all he eats in a day. "Because I live with family, we pool our resources for groceries, but sometimes we have to go without," Williams said. "Sometimes I come home from work and there's no food in the house." The last time Williams treated himself to a movie, his favorite activity, was several months ago. He said he aspires to one day be able to go to the movies every weekend. Williams recently fell ill with a sinus infection and went to a doctor. His bills totaled $600—nearly a month's wages. Overtime is also out of the question. Part-time employees can be suspended for working more than 40 hours a week, Williams said. Williams said he became involved in the strike after learning that his employer made $5.5 billion in profits last year. He also learned his friend, a dishwasher at a small, locally-owned restaurant, makes a wage of $9.50 an hour — a wage he says sounded like a fortune. "I felt completely betrayed because billions of dollars are extra and the people who work at McDonald's aren't making enough to live," Williams told Business Insider. McDonald's CEO Don Thompson has defended his company's wages in the past. In an interview with Bloomberg TV in July, Thompson said his company is an "above minimum-wage employer." The striking workers are seeking a $15 hourly wage, but even that lofty increase wouldn't be enough for Williams to make ends meet. An adult with one child needs to make $17.81 an hour working full time in the Indianapolis area to afford food, housing, and lodging, according to advocacy group Stand Up Chicago. Williams is dubious about whether the strikes will be effective, but he isn't deterred. "Even if my company isn't receptive, my voice will be heard no matter what," Williams said. He's looking for a new job. "

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-worker-why-im-striking-2013-8


^ have you ever been on unemployment dtownral?

8/29/2013 12:03:45 PM

i have been unemployed and spent a period working a $9/hr job as an adult. i also worked at a fast food place when I was 15-16.

the emotional appeal is compelling, but it doesn't change anything about my point. if you pay fast food workers $15/hr, most of the people working the job today will no longer have a job. instead of competing against other minimum wage employees they now have to compete against more qualified workers, college students (probably some graduates), etc...

8/29/2013 12:24:21 PM

Quote :

"i have been unemployed and spent a period working a $9/hr job as an adult"

at the same time?

^ i don't disagree with you. but i imagine $15 is their opening offer [which they know they can't get], while they would like to settle for $10 [/complete speculation]

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 12:28 PM. Reason : though does any of this even matter? they can just re-hire right?]

8/29/2013 12:26:15 PM

the $9/hr job came after the unemployed period.

I'm lucky though that neither of those lasted very long for me since I am a college graduate and fairly well qualified in my field; some of the fast food workers who would lose their job to new competition are not so lucky

Quote :

"but i imagine $15 is their opening offer [which they know they can't get], while they would like to settle for $10 [/complete speculation]"

but why not $20/hr? why not $30? If we are making salary decisions based on the assumption that consumers will be happy to pay a few more cents to help out these workers, then why can we not expect them to pay just a few more than that?

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2013 12:29:05 PM

They should be happy, since they make less than 20k per year, they will be the only ones reaping any ACA benefits.

8/29/2013 12:29:20 PM

^I agree with just about everything you've said in this thread.

I hope the corporations don't budge much (if at all) on this one.

8/29/2013 12:31:38 PM

(if you make too little money, you actually don't receive benefits from ACA. The medicaid expansion was supposed to fill that gap, and since many states are deciding against it those people are SOL)

8/29/2013 12:32:45 PM

Quote :

"http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-worker-why-im-striking-2013-8"

Nice sob story, I think this case is closed! Let's make the minimum wage 17.81 an hour. Yeah, a lot of college graduates don't even make that out of school. Starting teacher salary, not even close. But let's pay fucking McDonald's workers 18 bucks an hour because that's what you've determine is "the living wage".

Fortunately, the real economy does not operate on the feelings of middle class liberals, because if it did, our economy would collapse. There are people that will happily work for 7, 8, 9, 10 dollars an hour, and probably less. I understand that a core belief is that wages/money are completely arbitrary, and McDonald's could pay workers 100 bucks an hour and still make massive profits, but it's just nonsense.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2013 12:32:47 PM

"It's just nonsense", says Mr. Free Market Nostrum.

Case closed!

8/29/2013 12:43:33 PM

I think one of the biggest issues here is the difference between a young, single person (without kids) living off minimum wage and a single parent of 2-3 kids living off minimum wage.

The government can only intervene so far as to place a lower limit on how little a private corporation can pay it's employees, but outside of that it's up to the corporation. Just because someone has a difficult life situation with a lot of baggage shouldn't entitle them to special treatment. They are still performing the same work as a young, single person with no kids.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 1:02 PM. Reason : edit from below]

8/29/2013 12:47:59 PM

Quote :

"Williams told Business Insider his take-home pay is just under $800 a month. While his job is nearly full-time, Williams, 28, says his schedule is always capped off at 38 or 39 hours per week, making him ineligible for insurance benefits. More than half of that goes to rent on the 2-bedroom apartment he shares with his chronically ill mother and disabled brother. The remaining $335 goes toward food, transportation and medical bills. "

Sounds young and single to me.

8/29/2013 12:58:47 PM

$15/hour will certainly raise competition for fast food jobs. But workers in other industries that share a similar worker pool will negotiate with their boss, too. Workers currently making $15 will damn sure start renegotiating their salary. This strike isn't happening in a vacumn. In the same way raising the min wage will cascade upward in the economy and give workers a new negotiating point (note: I'm not advocating for a $15 min wage)

8/29/2013 1:00:50 PM

Quote :

""It's just nonsense", says Mr. Free Market Nostrum. Case closed!"

That's not meant to be an argument, it's a value judgment. If you want to make the argument for why minimum wage should be 100 dollars an hour, be my guest.

8/29/2013 1:17:43 PM

it's just that you're hard to take seriously because every comment you make sounds like canned libetarian utopia propaganda.

8/29/2013 1:23:17 PM

Quote :

"I understand that a core belief is that wages/money are completely arbitrary, and McDonald's could pay workers 100 bucks an hour and still make massive profits, but it's just nonsense."

This may be the most unsubtle strawman ever posted. To say you've made a value judgement is generous.

8/29/2013 1:23:34 PM

Great, let's get into it then. What should the minimum wage be?

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 1:28 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2013 1:27:45 PM

Quote :

"but if you have to pay them all $15/hr, then fewer will be hired and you'll just be paying for even more services for them"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

Quote :

"And if you are a fast food worker competing against other people qualified for a $8/hr job, how do you feel about your chances keeping your job when suddenly you have to compete with people at $15/hr?"

I guess you'll have to compete for teaching jobs, because as we established early ITT, teachers are making $15/hr, so they'll quit and work for McDonalds at that price. McDonalds workers will just have to take a pay cut and teach public school.

8/29/2013 1:33:13 PM

This country would be so much better if every company was employee-owned.

What makes you think a job should pay shit just because it is unskilled labor? It is still labor and somebody has to do it. If you have another skilled job making 15 an hour, you aren't going to suddenly leave the job you love to make 15 at mcdonalds.

8/29/2013 1:33:23 PM

Quote :

"the job you love "

??

8/29/2013 1:35:50 PM

Quote :

"What makes you think a job should pay shit just because it is unskilled labor? It is still labor and somebody has to do it."

Do they? If there were no minimum wage, eventually wages would fall to the point where it becomes worth it to automate the entire process. I don't see any reason to keep wages artificially high just so we can have jobs at McDonald's.

8/29/2013 1:45:03 PM

Quote :

"its not the only thing, no, but you would be out of a job "

But not if the employee has non linear returns. Productivity and skill isn't linear. It could be a bargin to hire an employee at 2x the pay rate if they give you 100x the value.

Quote :

"What makes you think a job should pay shit just because it is unskilled labor? It is still labor and somebody has to do it. If you have another skilled job making 15 an hour, you aren't going to suddenly leave the job you love to make 15 at mcdonalds."

We've established ITT that money is the only thing that matters. It's the only reason people get up in the morning and do things and the only way businesses can compete for workers and profits!

http://bookoutlines.pbworks.com/w/page/14422685/Predictably%20Irrational

Quote :

"Clark, Mills, and Fiske theorize that we live in two worlds; one where social norms prevail, and another where market norms make the rules. Social norms such as reciprocity are warm and fuzzy, with no explicit quid pro quo Market norms are explicit and hard--you get what you pay for Example: You can't mix social and market norms where sex is involved. You can't wine and dine a woman and then say, "You know, this relationship is costing me a lot of money." As Woody Allen said, "The most expensive sex is free sex.""

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 1:52 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 1:45:31 PM

If you double the minimum wage, then McD's will have to increase prices on everything probably by 1/3.

People - McD's does not exist so that John Q. Unskilled can make 31k/yr. They exist as a business to make money. They pay people 15/hr, then they have to raise their prices to a point where people won't come to their establishment anymore. Nobody is going to pay $9 for a Big Mac.

This idea just simply won't hold up to economics. Businesses aren't charities.

8/29/2013 1:51:54 PM

Quote :

"We've established ITT that money is the only thing that matters."

yeah there were no societies before money and nobody worked at all

8/29/2013 1:54:24 PM

Quote :

"If you double the minimum wage, then McD's will have to increase prices on everything probably by 1/3."

or maybe the CEO would have to take a small pay cut from his $27 million a year.

8/29/2013 1:54:55 PM

^To what point? This year we raise their min wage to 15, he takes home 21 mil. Next year they come up with another arbitrary number they want to be raised to, he takes home 17 mil. You can't just keep going.

But your scenario won't happen. Wages go up, prices go up.

Shit why not pay them all $37/hr. Then we can all have McD jobs, we won't have to pay back student loans because we won't have to go to college. We'll outsource all of our skilled work to Canada, and be fat dumb and happy knowing we didn't have to compete and work for our $77k/yr job.

8/29/2013 1:58:27 PM

Quote :

"If you double the minimum wage, then McD's will have to increase prices on everything probably by 1/3. "

*Citation Needed.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/07/30/how-much-would-a-big-mac-cost-if-mcdonalds-workers-were-paid-15-per-hour/

Quote :

"(Update, 2: Forbes contributor Tim Worstall argues that the answer to the question is simple: The cost of a Big Mac–at least to consumers–probably wouldn’t go up at all. Why? In order to remain compeditive with rivals on price, the company, as economist Adam Ozimek pointed out earlier this week, would probably find a way to keep overall labor costs in check, most likely by reducing the number of workers and introducing more automation–think ATMs in the banking industry.)"

Quote :

"Shit why not pay them all $37/hr. Then we can all have McD jobs, "

Fuck if I'm living on $37/hr. That's gotta be poverty line.

Quote :

"yeah there were no societies before money and nobody worked at all "

Sarcasm buddy. I shop at Whole Foods, I know there are other ways to compete besides price, otherwise I would have continued to shop at Harris Teeter and shit blood from the bad hamburger.



[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 2:04 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 2:01:08 PM