Quote :

"I want to see a Republican Party that rather than trying to make it more difficult to vote, and restricting the number of days and hours you can vote, a Republican Party that says ‘we want everybody to vote, and we’re going to give you a reason to vote for us."

2/13/2014 10:39:20 PM

i agree but support measures to make sure everyone entitled to vote does so equitably and fairly, with no misrepresentation.

2/13/2014 10:55:46 PM

you'll never be able to reach the goal of no misrepresentation

2/13/2014 11:11:13 PM

doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.

2/13/2014 11:41:27 PM

Yes it does

2/14/2014 12:11:37 AM

we will never reach the goal of no murder. might as well just forget about attempting to enforce laws against it.

2/14/2014 1:17:28 AM

what if murder was a statistically insignificant problem and trying to fix it would hurt exponentially more people? then the obvious solution would be to not address that statistically insignificant thing.

individual voter fraud doesn't happen, not in any amount that is statistically significant. trying to fix this "misrepresentation" will hurt more people than it would help, the total amount of "misrepresentation" would be much worse because many would not be represented at all.

here is another murder analogy for you:

you have a fly on your face and a shotgun. the fly isn't bothering you, you didn't even notice it until Fox News told you about it. What you want to do is shoot yourself in the face with your shotgun to get that fly.

2/14/2014 1:30:52 AM

Quote :

"what if murder was a statistically insignificant problem and trying to fix it would hurt exponentially more people? then the obvious solution would be to not address that statistically insignificant thing. "

Assault weapons are a statistically insignificant amount of gun crimes and laws to limit their ownership will harm far more people who simply want to own these. The obvious solution is not to limit that statistically insignificant thing.

[Edited on February 14, 2014 at 7:53 AM. Reason : ]

2/14/2014 7:52:32 AM

Absolutely agree, thanks for another great example

2/14/2014 8:31:27 AM

yeah i'm all for gun control, and i can see that limiting the types of guns (assault weapons, etc) is much less important than getting a handle on all the handguns we have floating around out there

2/14/2014 9:21:45 AM

ITT I learned that murder is as much of a problem as voter fraud

2/14/2014 9:53:45 AM

Do you really need to have someone point out to you that the consequence of having even one person murdered is worth more consideration than the consequence of having 10o people vote that shouldn't be voting?

Or that the consequence of not being allowed to own one single particular type of gun is not as much of a problem as not being allowed to vote?

[Edited on February 14, 2014 at 10:32 AM. Reason : asdf]

2/14/2014 10:31:43 AM

Its plainly obvious that their position is terrible, all they can do is try to distract you from it.

2/14/2014 10:35:55 AM

Their position is terrible because they can't agree on how to write policy on a single issue. The divide in their party is a lot worse than the progressives and main line Democrats.

2/14/2014 11:05:30 AM

Quote :

"Or that the consequence of not being allowed to own one single particular type of gun is not as much of a problem as not being allowed to vote?"

The right to self defense is far more important than the right to vote. You are more likely to be struck by lightning while voting than your vote affecting the outcome of the election. Not being able to defend yourself as you would like to, meanwhile, is a result in itself.

We already deprive ex-felons of the right to vote. No one seems to be that upset about that.

2/14/2014 11:38:12 AM

plenty of people are, actually

2/14/2014 11:53:58 AM

^^We can prove people have been murdered by assault weapons, can you give as many or even close to as many examples of people who defended themselves with assault weapons who wouldn't have been able to had they instead been holding non-assault firearms?

I immediately regret posting this as you are doing nothing but confirming dtownral's point above and I'm helping you

[Edited on February 14, 2014 at 12:13 PM. Reason : asdf]

2/14/2014 12:08:36 PM

Way to take the bait and get off topic guys

2/14/2014 1:04:12 PM

yeah i stopped reading at "what if murder was a statistically insignificant problem..."

2/14/2014 5:07:21 PM

yeah, that's where any reasonable person realizes that Smath's analogy was terrible

2/14/2014 5:15:50 PM

wat?

2/14/2014 5:53:48 PM

Ok I can't say I disagree with dtownral about that being a dumb analogy.

[Edited on February 15, 2014 at 2:09 PM. Reason : although his murder analogy was even dumber]

2/15/2014 2:05:17 PM

the only response to a dumb analogy is an analogy that shows how dumb theirs was

2/15/2014 3:01:48 PM

Quote :

"a Republican Party that says ‘we want everybody to vote'"

But the Republican party doesn't want everyone to vote, just like the Democratic party doesn't want everyone to vote. They want people to vote for them. We all understand this, don't we?

"Everyone should vote, no matter how they vote" is just such a load of shit. Fuck off, you want "democracy" when it works for you, and you want tyranny when it works for you.

The Republican party is bankrupt. They have nothing to buy votes with. The Democratic party already has the poverty vote wrapped up, and God 'n Guns isn't selling as well these days.

2/15/2014 5:20:25 PM

Everyone shouldn't be voting, but not in the way republicans don't want people voting.

It's a meaningful problem that jimbob who lives in a trailer park and has no interest in having Internet access should have the same say as intelligent people who pay attention to current events. Likewise, Monford that inherits a trust and has never been to a public school or otherwise meaning fully associated with someone of the poor or middle class or a minority also should not have equal say. It's sad that people who believe the world is 7000 years old has the same political power as me.

The problem is that to date, there's no way to ignore the people needing ignoring, so the western world defaults to giving everyone the right to vote.

When the wrong people have a voice, it doesn't matter if those people are voters or dictators.

We should spend less time worrying about who can vote and when (these fringe disenfranchised as mostly idiots anyway-- except the law blocking college students is pretty egregious), and spend more time worrying on getting people to vote for the correct things.

[Edited on February 15, 2014 at 5:58 PM. Reason : ]

2/15/2014 5:56:35 PM

You have no more right to exclude them from the process than they have a right to exclude you.

2/17/2014 10:50:27 AM

I'm not excluding a "them", i'm excluding a behavior/mindset.

2/17/2014 11:14:03 AM

I don't think you should be able to vote my rights away at all. It doesn't even particularly matter that I disagree with your views.

Democracy (or even Republicanism) is not some great, moral system. It's two wolves and a sheep deciding on what's for dinner. You may or may not think you know what's best for everyone or most people. Unfortunately, educated people are not going to reproduce as fast as the "undesirables" you're talking about, so this progressive enlightenment period that modern liberals pine for is not going to happen.

2/17/2014 12:22:48 PM

oh dang, i was sure americans were getting smarter and things were going to get better.

2/17/2014 12:35:30 PM

Quote :

"It's two wolves and a sheep deciding on what's for dinner."

And this is not the problem with US democracy today. The two wolves' policy views aren't anything to write home about. But the point where out government gets fucked up comes after the two wolves aren't paying attention anymore, and our financial industry rewrites all the laws to benefit themselves before it goes to vote.

2/17/2014 12:37:07 PM

^^^ Correct, point being is that it's not too nutty to say some people shouldn't vote. But under the reality that it's impossible to decide who should vote, and Republicans are working to restrict who should vote, gerrymandering has continued unabated for decades, the status quo is going to end up being both sides restricting the demos they don't resonate with from voting.

2/17/2014 3:29:51 PM

It's telling that the two examples of people you don't think should vote just happen to be on the other side of the political aisle from you. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin...

2/17/2014 9:50:24 PM

I actually only envisioned Monford being a typical Republican. The Jim Bob in my example was supposed to represent the stereotypical welfare queen Republicans always imagine, that always votes Democrat. It's telling though that you think both demographics are Republicans…

2/17/2014 10:34:11 PM

well, libs do usually bitch and moan about white trash and trailer trash being Republicans... Then you made the statement about Biblical literalism, also a typical Republican voting bloc... wanna try and squirm your way out of that again?

2/17/2014 10:43:27 PM

Most minorities are god fearing individuals.

2/17/2014 10:57:54 PM

True, but Democrats trip over themselves trying to ignore that fact. Remember the Amendment 1 troubles in NC?

[Edited on February 17, 2014 at 11:08 PM. Reason : ]

2/17/2014 11:08:08 PM

^^^
Sorry that I see the world as a multifaceted gradient rather than the black-and-white universe you seem to want it to be.

2/17/2014 11:33:09 PM

which is a great cop-out. Hey, I don't mean it the same way every other person who says it means it... The fact is, when liberals bitch and moan about someone in a trailer, they're bitching about redneck Republicans. When they bitch and moan about bible thumpers and people who think the world is only 7000 years old, they're bitching about Southern Baptists and evangelicals. Dress it up all you want, but that's what they mean, and that's what you meant.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that you'd like to limit the ability to vote for people who don't vote the way you want them to or for the things you want them to. Damned near everyone has that inclination. Frankly, that's what d357r0y3r was essentially saying earlier when he said that neither party wants everyone to vote. You just ended up subconsciously validating his point, even though you didn't realize it.

2/18/2014 1:05:14 AM

^ you're projecting.

Maybe this is the problem with Republicans? They think everyone else is as horrible as they are?

2/18/2014 1:07:33 AM

There's no greater advertisement for being liberal than aaronburro

2/18/2014 7:20:14 AM

Quote :

"Remember the Amendment 1 troubles in NC?"

you mean the thing that almost no one voted for because it was in May?

Quote :

"subconsciously"

this word doesn't mean what you think it means

Quote :

"cop-out"

Brooklyn Nine-Nine is hilarious

Quote :

"Dress it up all you want"

what's wrong with dressing things up? why are you so homophobic? Santorum dresses up in sweater vests.

Quote :

"Damned near everyone has that inclination."

what if you are just slanted, and everyone else is normal, like a backwards mystery-hill

Quote :

" Frankly, that's what d357r0y3r was essentially saying"

His name isn't Frank

Quote :

"trailer"

its a pre-manufactured or mobile home, stop insulting republicans

Quote :

"... "

---... is morse code for SOS

[Edited on February 18, 2014 at 7:37 AM. Reason : aaronburro style post]

2/18/2014 7:29:57 AM

Actually just for "S" I think

2/18/2014 8:27:03 AM

sorry, that wasn't very clear

Quote :

"..."

is morse code for S
...---... is morse code for SOS (i added the ---...)

2/18/2014 8:48:35 AM

Quote :

"Frankly, that's what d357r0y3r was essentially saying earlier when he said that neither party wants everyone to vote. You just ended up subconsciously validating his point, even though you didn't realize it."

This is a pretty insane twisting of reality.

Democrats are in favor of everyone having the ability to vote. On almost every connected issue, the Democratic position is to make it easier to cast a ballot.

While some individuals who identify as Democrat or progressive might feel uncomfortable about the idea of dumb people voting, I can't think of anything about the Democratic party IRL that aligns with that. I can't even think of a widespread shared view among the Democrats that connects with that.

Being theoretical about politics is fine, until you are on a subject that has a tangible basis in reality. At some point, we have an obligation to the evidence. I see none to support this false dichotomy, and the ridiculous game of "let's call it equal!" from the Republicans.

2/18/2014 11:05:11 AM

Quote :

"I can't think of anything about the Democratic party IRL that aligns with that. I can't even think of a widespread shared view among the Democrats that connects with that."

Yup. That was a pretty stupid strawman up there.

2/18/2014 12:23:43 PM

its not really a straw man.

someone else made the point that thinking that dumb people shouldn't vote while criticizing republicans on their voting rights record was hypocritical.

since thinking dumb people shouldn't vote, and wanting laws and policies that prevent dumb (or any) person from voting are very different, mrfrog was pointing out that its not the same. he was making the (correct) point that while some "libs" may not like it when dumb people vote, they aren't trying to stop them (and have no desire to start trying to stop them)



[Edited on February 18, 2014 at 12:44 PM. Reason : but nice strawman]

2/18/2014 12:33:47 PM

the strawman that was alluded to was d357r0y3r's post.

2/18/2014 1:09:25 PM

Lol

Quote :

"While some individuals who identify as Democrat or progressive might feel uncomfortable about the idea of dumb people voting, I can't think of anything about the Democratic party IRL that aligns with that."

You just mentioned pretty much your entire base.

/troll

2/18/2014 1:16:06 PM

(^^ ah, makes sense. i was pretty confused)

2/18/2014 1:20:18 PM

Quote :

"While some individuals who identify as Democrat or progressive might feel uncomfortable about the idea of dumb people voting, I can't think of anything about the Democratic party IRL that aligns with that. I can't even think of a widespread shared view among the Democrats that connects with that. "

The Democrats are aligned with the vote early and vote often mantra; death and incapacitation should not prevent some individual with no ID from pulling a lever in your name.

2/18/2014 5:06:09 PM