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eyedrb
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really struggling

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140126/RETAIL06/301279993/struggling-volvo-dealers-have-long-product-wish-list

4/2/2014 3:31:36 PM

eyedrb
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/failing-brands-2014_n_4604534.html

The point was directed to dtown, that the market WAS providing safer cars in the market place. Just as you can get one with a backup camera BEFORE the govt mandated it. Same with seatbelts, etc.

[Edited on April 2, 2014 at 3:37 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2014 3:35:01 PM

dtownral
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yeah, and people bought them

but just a few people

4/2/2014 3:49:26 PM

eyedrb
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Well just like the market in other areas, if people decide they want something then producers will put them in their product. I would imagine the backup camera started in luxury cars and is currently available in entry level models.

4/2/2014 4:07:17 PM

TKE-Teg
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Volvo of today is a horrible example. You can't blame their current woes on the company themselves. Rather you can blame Ford for doing a shitty job of managing them after acquiring them. And now they're owned by Cherry, whom wants to bring them back to form. But it's not an overnight process.

Though you can make the argument that once everyone else was mandated to include these safety items what made Volvo special?

4/2/2014 4:25:28 PM

sumfoo1
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Ford bought Volvo for technology not for profit... Just like land rover.

Purchase company, steal safety secrets/off-road traction control algorithm ... Dump company

Aston they obviously pirated some designers or something...

4/2/2014 4:32:32 PM

BlackJesus
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Ford is in love with some Aston. That Aston Mustang DB9 is lulz

When I saw the new fusion concept, I remember thinking "I can get a db9 for 30k". Until I saw it in person.

[Edited on April 2, 2014 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2014 4:33:48 PM

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http://www.autonews.com/article/20140401/COPY01/304019942/-volvo-aims-for-1-million-car-sales-chairman-says

Quote :
"Volvo reported operating profit of 1.92 billion crowns ($296 million) last year from 66 million in 2012, thanks to stronger sales and cost management."


http://www.industryweek.com/finance/volvo-cars-returns-profit-china-sales-cost-cuts

Quote :
"The company reported a 960-million-kronor (US $149.7-million) net profit in 2013, compared to losses of 542 million kronor the year before.

The full-year result implied a startling turnaround in the second half of 2013, following a loss of 778 million kronor in the first half, and three consecutive six-month periods in the red before that."


[Edited on April 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM. Reason : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/failing-brands-2014_n_4604534.html - Posted: 01/22/2014]

4/2/2014 4:41:20 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"I would imagine the backup camera started in luxury cars and is currently available in entry level models."

it's available in some entry level cars as an option, its not available in all. the market will never put them in all new cars sold, otherwise BobbyDigital would have seen them on every car in India.

4/2/2014 5:53:12 PM

jawhitak
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Quote :
"the market will never put them in all new cars sold, otherwise BobbyDigital would have seen them on every car in India."


No shit. That's because not everyone in the market wants to pay for backup cameras. They'd rather use their own eyeballs and good judgement, and keep the extra money.

4/2/2014 6:24:43 PM

tchenku
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I don't know why you people love Volvos so damn much. They are ugly as hell

with the exception of the earlier 850 in black

4/2/2014 8:51:16 PM

0EPII1
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850 R in banana yellow

S60 R in that volvo blue

(two of the hottest sedans ever made)

4/2/2014 9:16:35 PM

Igor
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Quote :
"it's available in some entry level cars as an option, its not available in all. the market will never put them in all new cars sold, otherwise BobbyDigital would have seen them on every car in India."


Hell, on some Tata (Indian brand) cars a passenger-side rearview mirror is optional equipment (as it actually used to be here in US as recent as 1980s).

Keep in mind that the average speeds in India are lower and that in developing economies the safety standards and regulation in general are lagging behind in ALL sectors.

4/2/2014 10:44:14 PM

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Quote :
"the market will never put them in all new cars sold, otherwise BobbyDigital would have seen them on every car in India."


Am I missing some sarcasm here?

Quote :
"That's because not everyone in the market wants to pay for backup cameras."


Yeah I'm sure that extra $50-$150 is really gonna break the bank ...and that price is obviously going to fall as more and more of them are sold and finally mandated

Quote :
"I don't know why you people love Volvos so damn much."


I don't, I was just disputing the notion that they're currently "going under"

4/2/2014 11:05:51 PM

theDuke866
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Quote :
"(as it actually used to be here in US as recent as 1980s)."


...if only all these incompetent dumbfucks would stay out of the left lane except while actively passing other cars, then we wouldn't be routinely passing people on the right, making the passenger-side mirror such a necessity, and even then, being much more dangerous than passing on the left.

4/2/2014 11:10:41 PM

jawhitak
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Quote :
"Yeah I'm sure that extra $50-$150 is really gonna break the bank "


That's $50-$150 that'd I'd rather not [be required to] spend.

I just checked, and my $free eyeballs work fine.

4/3/2014 11:43:27 AM

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^ You buy new cars?

4/3/2014 11:47:09 AM

jawhitak
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Haha not as long as I can get used ones for far cheaper without a million buttons and screens on the dash

4/3/2014 11:50:33 AM

wdprice3
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Quote :
"Yeah I'm sure that extra $50-$150 is really gonna break the bank "


Is this the actual cost to the consumer? I'm assuming these numbers refer to manufacturer installed cameras. Because from what I've seen, adding the camera normally is hundreds or thousands of dollars; primarily because manufacturers force you to buy an entire upgrade package. I haven't looked at dealer installed cameras (if some even offer this option), but $50-$150 sounds extremely low even for that.

[Edited on April 3, 2014 at 11:52 AM. Reason : .]

4/3/2014 11:51:31 AM

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If it's required to be on every car, people won't be forced to buy packages to add it will they?

4/3/2014 11:55:37 AM

jawhitak
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If everyone will want to buy it because an extra $50-$150 won't really break the bank, the government won't even need to mandate it, will they?

4/3/2014 12:40:59 PM

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They eventually will, but I like the idea of the government expediting the process.

4/3/2014 12:44:37 PM

TKE-Teg
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Quote :
"
Is this the actual cost to the consumer? I'm assuming these numbers refer to manufacturer installed cameras. Because from what I've seen, adding the camera normally is hundreds or thousands of dollars; primarily because manufacturers force you to buy an entire upgrade package. I haven't looked at dealer installed cameras (if some even offer this option), but $50-$150 sounds extremely low even for that."


Yes that is the cost estimate from the NTHSA, with the low side estimate for vehicles that already utilize an LCD screen in the dashboard and the high side for cars that currently do not.

Personally I hate all these damn LCD screens replacing buttons. Well, replacing primary control buttons at least. If you have to take your eye off the road every time you want to adjust the fan speed or advance to the next music track you're just creating a more dangerous driving situation.

4/3/2014 1:00:28 PM

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Quote :
" If you have to take your eye off the road every time you want to adjust the fan speed or advance to the next music track you're just creating a more dangerous driving situation."


I would imagine most new vehicles have steering wheel controls for the latter right? For the former automatic climate control is becoming more and more a standard accessory.

4/3/2014 1:02:48 PM

TKE-Teg
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Perhaps? I haven't seen any instances of climate control buttons on steering wheels. However I'm not often behind the wheel of a high end luxury sedan.

4/3/2014 1:07:59 PM

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http://editingandwritingservices.com/former-latter/


On a slightly related topic my 335i has a completely wasted steering wheel control button for toggling between fresh/recycled air. I can think of a number of better uses for that real estate.

4/3/2014 1:46:03 PM

BobbyDigital
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Quote :
""the market will never put them in all new cars sold, otherwise BobbyDigital would have seen them on every car in India.""


sure, maybe not all new cars, but most new cars. Any new feature starts out at the luxury/top end of the market, and works its way down the value chain as manufacturers have to constantly find ways to differentiate their offerings from competitors. When the customer expectations for a given feature as basic functionality reach a certain critical mass, it'll be rare to find a car without said options. Sure, you can find a new car without power locks/windows today, but the reality is that only a tiny fraction of entry level cars have manual crank locks/windows. Same thing applies for back up cameras. Without the mandate, you'd wind up with a close to 100% penetration rate anyway.

yeah in the grand scheme of things the $150 or so is probably not a big deal. But if you take that with the aggregate of other bells and whistles that are mandated over time, it adds up. Fuck TPMS for example.

4/3/2014 1:59:19 PM

jawhitak
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Quote :
"They eventually will, but I like the idea of the government expediting the process."


People are dangerous at safely backing up because they aren't watching their surroundings. Let's mandate that all consumers buy rear cameras, thus expediting the free market's slow process.

People are still dangerous at safely backing up because they aren't watching their LCD screens. Let's mandate that all consumers buy beeping rear motion detectors, thus expediting the free market's slow process.

People are still dangerous at safely backing up because they are ignoring the beeping rear motion detectors. Let's mandate that all consumers buy electronic brake controls to automatically stop the car when motion is detected rearward, thus expediting the free market's slow process.

People are still dangerous at safely backing up because sometimes they back over non-moving babies. Let's mandate that all consumers buy infrared cameras to assist the rear cameras in stopping the car via electronic brake controls, thus expediting the free market's slow process.


On second thought, this is a fun game.

4/3/2014 3:17:26 PM

Ahmet
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"On a slightly related topic my 335i has a completely wasted steering wheel control button for toggling between fresh/recycled air. I can think of a number of better uses for that real estate.”

Yeah, like a clean steering wheel w/out a bunch of buttons on it.

It is indeed getting harder to find cars without BS features, but as this very discussion shows, everybody has different preferences. I, for example, rather appreciate real time, precise PSI reading of each tire, though really wouldn’t want just a warning light.

4/3/2014 4:29:35 PM

BlackJesus
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My G8 does not have Bluetooth, but it has a button on the steering wheel to make calls through Onstar. I also have a Onstar button on my Rearview mirror. I'm so Anti-onstar I didn't even activate the free trial.

I also have XM radio that sucks but they call me every 6 months a beg me to stay, after I say no 3 times they give me 6 months at $20 plus tax. So I stay

Back up cameras are a item for luxury cars. If you back over you child you are a terrible person, and I should not have to buy a camera to protect your kids from you. Also a camera does nothing without a warning sensor.

[Edited on April 3, 2014 at 4:43 PM. Reason : I would never buy a car that auto brakes etc.]

4/3/2014 4:38:43 PM

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^^^ i'm cool with the beeping too.

4/3/2014 4:41:39 PM

dtownral
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do electric vehicles have backup alarms? they should.

4/3/2014 4:49:57 PM

Dr Pepper
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^don't know.

but if I ever own an EV, you bet your ass I'm going to have a sound generator pumping out the space-ship noise from the Jetsons.

4/3/2014 4:53:10 PM

dtownral
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they should let people customize sounds on EVs, just open an API to developers that allows you to tie sounds to throttle position and let people customize. Want to go fast? F1 sound. Feeling futuristic? Jetsons.

4/3/2014 5:10:01 PM

TKE-Teg
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On a car equipped with a spare tire I don't think that TPMS are necessary - more a nuisance really.

However my Cayman has no spare tire, nor run flat tires. So if I start losing pressure in a tire I want to know about it immediately. Also the Cayman's instrument panel also shows tire pressure in real time, accurate to 1 psi. It's handy, though the sensors only have a lifespan of 5-6 years after which point it's around $550 in parts to replace them. ($1200 at dealership).

4/4/2014 10:30:22 AM

dtownral
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Ford Explorers flipping because of under-inflated tired are why we have TPMS, TPMS is a good thing

4/4/2014 10:37:14 AM

TKE-Teg
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Because people are too stupid/lazy to check their own tire pressure on a semi-regular basis?

4/4/2014 11:11:35 AM

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^ I don't know why you even have to ask that question

4/4/2014 11:15:33 AM

jawhitak
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Quote :
"Because people are too stupid/lazy to check their own tire pressure on a semi-regular basis?"


And this takes us right back to the argument between leaving people with the responsibility of their own vehicle safety vs. writing a bunch of mommy laws to force all people to buy extra precautionary safety features.

How long until we decide that it's dangerous for kids to steal their parents' cars, so we mandate a fingerprint validation scanner to start all new vehicles?

How long until we decide that gas tanks pose an occasional fire risk, so we mandate a fire suppression system in all new vehicles?

How long until we decide that car thieves are dangerous, so we mandate a GPS tracking device for real-time police monitoring in all new vehicles?

How long until we decide that cell phone use is dangerous, so we mandate an interior camera to watch for illegal driver/passenger activities in all new vehicles?

How long until we decide that bikers and pedestrians are in physical danger, so we mandate external airbags on all new vehicles?



If the only goal of the law is to forcefully protect people from their own stupidity, we could easily make base model Corollas cost over $100k in mandatory safety features. But it's ok. It's not really gonna break the bank

4/4/2014 1:04:04 PM

dtownral
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are you okay with an explorer flipping over in front of you on the interstate?

4/4/2014 2:24:40 PM

jawhitak
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Yeah. I understand the risks of driving, and I accept to take those risks when I drive. I also pay close attention to my surroundings and keep up with my vehicle maintenance to minimize my risks while driving.

Should we mandate that everyone straps pillows around themselves while walking to minimize the risk of tripping injuries?

4/4/2014 3:14:47 PM

1in10^9
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^World is advancing and with any growth there will be growing pains. If that wasn't the case we would still be riding on a horse and carriage. Also it is very relative. I have things that I dislike in new car designs, but that's because it doesn't affect me. If it did, I would care more. One example is pedestrian safety design of new BMW. I don't care how new BMWs look as a result of this advancement, but I'm sure if my 2 year old ran in front of a vehicle that had this design and actually saved a life, I would definitely be a supporter. I don't have a child now, but perhaps later I actually like this? It is very hard to detach yourself and look at it in unbiased way.

4/4/2014 3:47:32 PM

xvang
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I think it's a conspiracy. Mass implementation of this...

4/4/2014 5:03:43 PM

Igor
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Quote :
"Because people are too stupid/lazy to check their own tire pressure on a semi-regular basis?"


First of all, many people ARE too stupid/lazy, and I don't want those people to endanger my life. I don't care if their car runs great or not, it has to be able to stop well and be controllable for the sake of others, this is why we have safety inspections. Second, even with the people who check their tire pressure regularly, there is a possibility of a fast airleak due to a punctured tire. Where in a passenger car with low profile tires it may be a matter of ruining a tire, in case of trucks and SUVs specifically, low tire pressure combined with a high center of gravity and tall sidewalls is a rollover waiting to happen.

4/4/2014 6:58:59 PM

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Quote :
"The silver car is the least expensive Nissan model sold in the US. The red car is the least expensive model sold in Mexico. The difference between a crash's effect on each car is... frightening."


11/2/2016 11:12:47 AM

smoothcrim
Universal Magnetic!
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that tsuru looks an awful lot like an early 90s sentra

11/2/2016 12:04:39 PM

Hiro
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NMSJ

11/2/2016 12:45:20 PM

TKE-Teg
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^^that's because it is. Literally, it is.

No great shocker here; modern cars are built like tanks. Last 20 years have been an arms race for safety. Things have definitely gotten a bit too excessive.

11/2/2016 1:11:35 PM

wdprice3
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can jawhitak come back and do one of his progression responses for 4^. that'd be great.



[Edited on November 2, 2016 at 1:20 PM. Reason : damn gubmit requiring safety features]

11/2/2016 1:19:25 PM

0EPII1
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Quote :
"that tsuru looks an awful lot like an early 90s sentra "


NO WAI!!! What a coincidence!!!

********************

I saw that video yesterday and was going to post it but forgot. Very shocking, especially the view of the driver from the passenger seat showing the driver getting crushed!

11/3/2016 12:30:58 AM

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