http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/16/politics/va-scandal/

Thoughts?

I got a feeling this is going to come back and bite all the talking heads in the butt, because they are going to find out that this goes back much further than 2008.

5/19/2014 8:51:45 PM

Are talking heads trying to make this a thing? Did they forget that Republicans keep voting against VA benefit bills?

5/19/2014 8:59:34 PM

This is hardly surprising given there were buildings that were on the verge of collapsing (at least the floors) just due to the volumes of paper records at some of these site.

5/19/2014 9:45:29 PM

They are most definitely trying to make this a thing.

Not everything that goes wrong at the federal level is a scandal. Some of it is just an amalgam of mistakes. They need to pick a few and focus on them, rather than crying wolf every time something in our government doesn't go right.

5/19/2014 9:46:11 PM

the problems they're uncovering now are the result of decades of neglect to the VA system. Starting around 2006-2007, the construction company I work with started seeing the floodgates open for work to fix the dilapidated building and infrastructure on the campuses, so it doesn't surprise me to see all the problems being uncovered once they really started upgrading the computer systems.

5/19/2014 10:07:39 PM

^^ That's an apt point. Are the Republican strategists not concerne about scandal fatigue? Between the supposed "scandals" of Obamacare, Benghazi, Hilary Brain Damage, and now the VA, will it not just make the GOP look petulant come election time?

5/19/2014 10:54:40 PM

^ Obamas approval rating is pretty low, maybe due to the good strategy of scandalizing everything? Could also be due to Obama not really putting much effort to satisfy his liberal base. Maybe the scandals have been what's held Obama back on more progressive initiatives. Either way, my take on the current climate is that republicans are winning the media battles.

I wonder though if the va situation isn't related to the post office situation, where congress has politicized operations, and this micromanaging holds things back. I really know nothing about the system though, I just am observing by the sidelines.

But when I see South Korea disbanding their coast guard for what seems mostly an accident, it's a stark contrast for how our leaders hem and haw to protect friends and political ties. This is systemic corruption. Maybe our government is even worse than I realize...

5/19/2014 11:06:25 PM

Maybe his approval rating is low because *gasp* people just don't have the same faith in him anymore. He rode in on a wave of optimism, and people just aren't that optimistic anymore. Sure, you've got your die hard lefties that won't give up the goat, but I think the average working man is just fed up with government in general. And who takes the brunt? The POTUS.

And moron that is a good point. If you have a government job in this country, you really aren't held accountable for your mistakes like you should. It is hard for me not to sound partisan here, given how you people view me and my beliefs, but with the IRS thing - regardless of who is ultimately at the top of it, someone should've been fired. Not allowed to resign, not allowed to retire, but terminated. With the VA issue, if congress is ultimately to blame, then they should be fired by getting voted out, but some responsibility still lies with administrators - if there is an issue.

The only two items that we hear about in the media right now that I personally think need some follow-up are the IRS issue and Benghazi. IRS only because it is scary to me that any appendage of the government might have been used to stifle someone's voice in this country And before you tell me that I'm just a partisan hack, think about what might happen if the other side is running the show. Would you want extra scrutiny on organizations like NARAL or MoveOn.org? That isn't a precedent we want to set.

For Benghazi, to me it is pretty obvious that someone was trying to obfuscate the details in order to protect the powers that be. I'm not saying that Obama or Clinton are at fault here - I just think someone was trying to watch their backs. Those someones need to be dealt with. The Republicans are trying to make a bigger deal out of it than what it is, but it still should be looked into.

Other "scandals" that just need to die:

Fast & Furious - who knows how those guns made it in the hands of drug dealers. This is another example of someone just making a mistake.

Clinton Healthgate - She should follow suit and release her records if she runs, and let the public decide.

Obamacare really isn't a scandal.

Obama family vacations - Who cares.

I can't think of any more right now but I'm sure there are other things that are being politicized.

5/20/2014 8:21:51 AM

Quote :

"The only two items that we hear about in the media right now that I personally think need some follow-up are the IRS issue and Benghazi"

follow up?

how many more congressional hearings on the IRS and Benghazi will it take before they will have properly "followed up"? 3? 4? 37?

[Edited on May 20, 2014 at 11:20 AM. Reason : have you been following any non-partisan accounts of either story at all?]

5/20/2014 11:15:59 AM

Quote :

"Maybe his approval rating is low because *gasp* people just don't have the same faith in him anymore."

Obama's approval among Democrats has always been pretty high, mid 80s+. His approval among Republicans is crazy low, near single digits, which drags his whole average down. I don't think anyone that ever had "faith" in him has lost it. People who expected him to move the needle back to the New Deal are disappointed, but that's about it.

5/20/2014 2:00:56 PM

There's been a lot of criticism from those that previously supported Obama on transparency, civil liberties, NSA, net neutrality.

I havent seen any recent numbers, but folks like me who supported him over Romney are absolutely disgusted with his handling of domestic surveillance, net neutrality, and generally the same support for the military-industrial complex as the previous administration.

5/20/2014 2:46:42 PM

Benghazi definitely doesn't need any more follow-up, its been followed-up to death already

5/20/2014 3:09:40 PM

to me it doesn't matter which party comes under fire for this. this is NOT how we should treat our veterans.

5/20/2014 4:19:22 PM

One of the most amazing things about Obama is that he knows so little about what is going on in his administration. It seems like he finds out many of these major issues from reading the newspaper and watching CSPAN, if you believe his press secretary anyway.

Could he be more transparently full of shit?

5/20/2014 7:04:46 PM

^ fell for the scandal bait

5/20/2014 7:28:51 PM

Nah, it's not a scandal, it's a tragedy.

This is not a new development, returning vets have been getting shat upon for almost the entirety of the last decade.

Claiming ignorance on the topic is shameful, but sadly par for the course when Obama is confronted with some failing or issue with the federal government.

5/20/2014 7:35:25 PM

I'm really not trying to pin this one on the current administration. Like I said, I think this is going to go way back.

Although I do think Obama should take quick action here, and get rid of everyone at the top.

5/20/2014 9:46:37 PM

^^ blaming this on this administration is ignorance though

[Edited on May 20, 2014 at 9:58 PM. Reason : and completely counter productive for actually making changes]

5/20/2014 9:58:04 PM

Quote :

"Fast & Furious - who knows how those guns made it in the hands of drug dealers. This is another example of someone just making a mistake."

The problem is, we do know how those guns got there. The guns in question were guns that the BATF directed to be sold to known straw purchasers. They were supposed to be traced after they were bought. The BATF lost track of them. But the bigger issue is that this is just one of a pattern of abuses and f-ups in the BATF. There was a Milwaukee paper that ran an investigation into the BATF setting up fake store fronts around the area. They lost a bunch of firearms from those stores, and then recruited local mentally handicapped individuals to engage in illegal or quasi legal gun stings. Here's the link to their collection of articles on the issue:

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/backfire-190528221.html

That isn't to say the BATF issues are pure Obama problems. The BATF has been corrupt and abusive for a long while. But when a major talking point for you (and your party, and key people in your administration) is all the issues guns are "causing" in society, then you'd damn well better be sure your department in charge of enforcing gun laws isn't causing more problems than it's solving.

5/20/2014 10:47:53 PM

Quote :

"I havent seen any recent numbers, but folks like me who supported him over Romney are absolutely disgusted with his handling of domestic surveillance, net neutrality, and generally the same support for the military-industrial complex as the previous administration. "

Ditto.

I became politically aware when the market puked in 07 and I was unemployed. I single issue voted for Obama thinking that he'd "stand up for the little guy" and do something to right the wrongs that the banks helped perpetrate on our country. Maybe, gasp, have someone sent to jail. We see how poorly that worked out.

5/20/2014 11:30:01 PM

^^^I'm not blaming it on this administration, it's been an ongoing problem since we went to Afghanistan. It is ridiculous though that the president once again is just now finding out about this when people have been talking about it for years and years.

It's feigned ignorance and it's a pattern for this president. I'm not blaming him, I just want to see him do something to address it. It would be nice to see him shitcan some people and fix the problem. If he did that it would go a long way towards earning him some credibility with veterans and active duty soldiers alike.

[Edited on May 20, 2014 at 11:32 PM. Reason : sdfsdfs]

5/20/2014 11:31:55 PM

Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is one giant bureaucratic mess. I've worked with IT guys at the VA, and it's not really a matter of competence, it's just a massive amount of red tape. As an example, my boss told me about how he's attended hours long web meetings with 30 or more people paid triple figure salaries by the VA. The subject? Getting reimbursed for travel expenses to healthcare conferences. Apparently the secretary himself has to personally sign off on them, and the requests need to be submitted 6 months ahead of time. The whole organization is fucked, and it has been since long before the current WH.

[Edited on May 21, 2014 at 2:19 PM. Reason : :]

5/21/2014 2:18:06 PM

Quote :

" triple figure salaries"

damn. well there's the problem. you get what you pay for.

even chinese assembly line workers make more than that.

5/21/2014 2:47:39 PM

Chinese assembly line workers actually deliver too! And I meant six figure.

[Edited on May 21, 2014 at 2:53 PM. Reason : :]

5/21/2014 2:52:42 PM

Quote :

"the House of Representatives passed an amendment sponsored by Rep. David McKinley (R-WV) that seeks to prevent the Department of Defense from using funding to address the national security impacts of climate change."

not related to the VA, but this is the kind of meddling Congress partakes in that results in gov. institutions being mired in bureaucracy and red tape.

How is the DoD supposed to effectively plan when at any moment, Congress can command them to ignore swaths of reality?

If I were in charge at the DoD, i think i would just ignore this directive (assuming it passes).

5/25/2014 11:34:40 AM

Quote :

"I got a feeling this is going to come back and bite all the talking heads in the butt, because they are going to find out that this goes back much further than 2008."

that' so cute. this has been going on since the VA was formed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_99

5/25/2014 11:57:59 AM

Quote :

"How is the DoD supposed to effectively plan when at any moment, Congress can command them to ignore swaths of reality?"

This is a red herring argument. The DoD can and does effectively plan despite the budget situation. How can they not when what is given to them is more than the next umpteen countries combined?

5/25/2014 1:37:05 PM

Quote :

"that' so cute. this has been going on since the VA was formed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_99"

Indeed. This is not the fault of the Obama administration. The best administration in the world could not clean up a mess that is decades old.

This isn't a new thing. There are somewhere around 60,000 homeless veterans right now. That number will only go up, assuming that the suicide rate for PTSD-impacted veterans doesn't rise even faster.

There's a myth that the United States used to care about veterans. That has really never been the case, at least not for any lengthy period of time. Going all the way back to the revolutionary war, the government failed to honor service pensions.

5/25/2014 3:49:04 PM

A beautiful preview of socialized medicine in the US. I can't wait!

5/26/2014 12:12:40 AM

Quote :

"A beautiful preview of socialized medicine in the US. I can't wait!"

5/26/2014 12:13:27 AM

Let's underfund something and then attack it for not working properly

^^^ I too watch the daily show

[Edited on May 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM. Reason : ^^^^^^^]

5/26/2014 8:15:40 AM

Like I said:

Quote :

"A beautiful preview of socialized medicine in the US. I can't wait!"

5/26/2014 4:55:16 PM

Senator Burr destroyed by veterans groups after he sends them a shameful open letter:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/25/richard-burr-veterans_n_5389296.html

This is a portion from the Paralyzed Veterans:

Perhaps you should be reminded of just how much you support veterans and their families in this country. Given the opportunity to support legislation that would remove all of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) budget from the partisan bickering and political gridlock, of which you are an active participant, that has completely crippled the appropriations process, you opposed that legislation. Given the opportunity to support legislation that would ensure all generations of veterans, not just Post-9/11 era veterans, have access to the Comprehensive Caregiver Assistance program administered by the VA, you chose to oppose that legislation. Given the opportunity to support legislation that would provide reproductive assistance to veterans whose catastrophic disabilities rendered them unable to have children, you chose to oppose that legislation. Given the opportunity to ensure that the VA has fully sufficient resources to establish adequate capacity and properly meet the health care demands of veterans, you have chosen to send them out into the private health care marketplace that cares more about the bottom dollar than the health and well-being of those men and women.

It should be noted many in the GOP have blocked key veterans bills.

5/26/2014 5:15:13 PM

Are they "key veterans bills" alone or are they attached to some other big spending agenda bill the Democrats cooked up that basically forced the 'gotcha' onto the Republicans?

5/26/2014 6:45:38 PM

At least some of them were alone, republicans have a pretty established track record opposing benefits for veterans

5/26/2014 8:23:45 PM

Quote :

""A beautiful preview of socialized medicine in the US. I can't wait!""

Nothing stops the veterans from seeking private health care, and many actually do this. The VA can actually shunt overflow to non VA hospitals/practitioners.

But you seem to be implying that we should close down the VA system then do what...? Not take care of the veterans?

5/27/2014 1:50:51 PM

Quote :

"A beautiful preview of socialized medicine in the US. I can't wait!"

Yes, because Obama nationalized hospitals and there's a government insurance option.

5/27/2014 4:53:03 PM

(it's burro)

5/27/2014 4:55:03 PM

Anyone who things "regulation" and "socialization" mean the same thing in terms of governance is being willfully dense or got knocked in the head with the stupid stick.

5/27/2014 5:08:07 PM

Quote :

"At least some of them were alone, republicans have a pretty established track record opposing benefits for veterans"

Which bills specifically? You mean the one the Daily Show did where the Democrats just wanted to go farther in debt rather than try to offset the new spending somewhere else? Are there any other bills? It simply doesn't come close to passing the sniff test to say "republicans have a track record of opposing vet benefits".

5/27/2014 8:48:57 PM

so we can just borrow whatever to go to war, but if you want to pay for care for the veterans of those wars they better come with offsetting cuts somewhere? some of the bills are listed a few posts up.

CuntPuncher

5/27/2014 9:34:54 PM

I don't see those links.

5/27/2014 9:39:03 PM

some of the bills listed a few posts up

CuntPunter2

[Edited on May 27, 2014 at 9:47 PM. Reason : .]

5/27/2014 9:47:09 PM

Look fuckface...I see eyewalls post...those aren't bills that are listed. Those are descriptions of bills and I'm not trying to google search all those bills when you are the know it all in here that should have had the shit ready to go.

We see now that once again you don't have a damn clue what you are talking about, so get the fuck out of the thread.

5/27/2014 9:53:19 PM

Would you like me to google it for you?

CuntPunter3

5/27/2014 10:07:59 PM

Here ya go, Cunt:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-usa-veterans-congress-idUSBREA1Q26O20140227

5/28/2014 12:16:12 AM

So basically one bill that was designed from the beginning by Democrats to be political theater?

[Edited on May 28, 2014 at 6:17 AM. Reason : ^ btw...if you read my previous post you can see I was already aware of this ONLY one]

5/28/2014 6:16:39 AM

More than this have already been listed a few posts up

CuntPunter4

5/28/2014 6:34:43 AM

I googled them and found the VFW to not know what they are talking about. There wasn't even a vote on some of the things they claim Burr "didn't" support. Maybe they called him and asked if he would or would not support them, that fact certainly isn't in evidence here anywhere, least of all this half-assed bullshit you're doing.

Prove me wrong.

5/28/2014 6:41:57 AM

I don't see those links.

CuntPunter5

5/28/2014 7:14:20 AM