I am trying to figure out why people wanna pay 3x the money for a system with lower specs. I have already heard the argument that mac os runs leaner, but there has to be more to it than that.

Also, why the fuck are there not scrollbars?

I work for a company that is 100% apple and I cant figure out how to scroll or copy and paste on any of the office computers.

4/16/2015 1:42:47 PM

1) there are scoll bars
2) you copy by command-c (literally the same thing as windows, but command instead of control)
3) pasting is the same thing... command-v
3b) You can also "right click" to copy/paste

If you are talking about a laptop, it's not 3x as much, it's more like 1.5x as much, but it should be pretty obvious why it's more than the bargain bin laptops at Best Buy.

Assuming you're not 60 years old, you should learn at least basic proficiency with various OSes so you don't look like a retard to current and future employers...
https://www.apple.com/support/macbasics/pctomac/
[Edited on April 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on April 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2015 1:54:43 PM

my adviser swore by Macs, and his explanation was always (in so many words) "I've got enough to worry about without my computer causing me problems. PCs are prone to all kinds of errors, whereas Macs work flawlessly."

also, I'm not sure how specific this is to Macs, but he really enjoyed souping up his machine. I think he had 96 GB of RAM when I graduated.

4/16/2015 2:06:08 PM

The hardware is good and the OS is a tolerable alternative to Windows, with the added benefit of a built in bash terminal for developers. I don't bother with any of Apple's cloud services, and use it purely as a launcher for Chrome and my IDE(s). Spotlight Search is nice, but I miss window snapping from Windows 7/8 and Finder has nothing on Explorer. It does a decent job of managing desktops across multiple monitors, but here I prefer Windows as well. I still wouldn't buy one myself, but I've had a good enough experience with this one that I'd probably recommend them to someone choosing a desktop replacement dev machine on the company's dime.

[Edited on April 16, 2015 at 2:14 PM. Reason : :]

4/16/2015 2:13:49 PM

they have nice trackpads and a bash terminal

after that, fuck if i know

4/16/2015 3:09:56 PM

Quote :

"1) there are scoll bars 2) you copy by command-c (literally the same thing as windows, but command instead of control) 3) pasting is the same thing... command-v 3b) You can also "right click" to copy/paste"

this should be hung on the wall in the office

4/16/2015 3:25:33 PM

ok if there are scroll bars how come you have to magically mouse over a specific place to get them, as soon as you try to click they dissaper

4/16/2015 3:31:33 PM

Who doesn't have a scroll wheel mouse or utilize gestures to scroll on a trackpad/magic mouse? Do people really still click on scroll bars?

4/16/2015 3:53:13 PM

what is a gesture

4/16/2015 4:08:01 PM

Lose control, take command.

I use 2 fingers to scroll up and down. 3 fingers to swipe between windows.

My Mac runs a lot faster than any pc I've owned. Plus, the durability and fit/finish of the product is superior to my old pc laptops.

I have the 15" macbook pro with retina. Solid state hard drive. I absolutely love this computer. HD is great, sound through stock speakers is excellent, battery life rocks, etc....

4/16/2015 5:04:32 PM

4/16/2015 6:00:19 PM

Bash terminal with all the Unix tools installed. Battery lasts all day, great looking screen with sharp colors. No backslashes in file paths.

I am a little pissed I had two break on my within three months.

4/16/2015 9:51:04 PM

I went to the apple store today.

The new macbook does not even have a USB port, only the charger and headphone, wtf?

4/16/2015 10:11:56 PM

The charger is a usb port

Also ^^ is correct.

[Edited on April 16, 2015 at 11:18 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2015 11:17:43 PM

Can you charge and USB at the same time? Is there a dock or something?

4/16/2015 11:44:10 PM

you can with a dongle

4/17/2015 9:03:04 AM

The new Macbook isn't a laptop. It's a tablet with a keyboard. Treat it accordingly.

4/17/2015 10:58:52 AM

Except it doesn't have a touch screen, or detachable keyboard. So it's not at all like a tablet and shouldn't be treated as one, at all.

4/17/2015 11:12:41 AM

Explain to me why apple computers are so great.

With some people it's a cultural experience.

4/17/2015 12:15:13 PM

4/17/2015 12:28:28 PM

Quote :

" I miss window snapping from Windows 7/8"

I used to use these back when I regularly used a Mac

http://mizage.com/divvy/
http://manytricks.com/moom/

4/17/2015 12:29:27 PM

Quote :

"Can you charge and USB at the same time? Is there a dock or something?"

I did some research on this, for $79 you can get a dongle that allows you to charge using the charger you already have, one USB port, and one HDMI port. The new usb-c port is harder to fuck up, bend, etc, and the cable will plug in both ways so you cant get it backwards.

4/17/2015 12:45:59 PM

My Dell laptop was $599

It has a dual core hyper-threaded i7 processor, 16gb of ram, 15" touch screen, no ssd but that is user swappable. A macbook pro like that is like $2500 or more with no touch screen.

4/17/2015 12:50:27 PM

if you look at computers in the same size and spec range, they're only 50%-100% more. let's not exaggerate.

4/17/2015 2:04:21 PM

^^ and I guarantee it weighs twice as much and has half the battery life.

^ more like 10-15% actually.

The cost difference In laptops is really a reflection of weight and battery not cpu and storage

4/17/2015 3:20:02 PM

The thing that fucking sucks about the Dell is battery and power consumption, they shipped it with hibernate disabled. So pretty much when you close it it goes in to sleep mode which still runs the battery down because its still turned on. It will be dead the next time it is opened.

I fixed the settings recently, but you have to change it in every "power profile" that you use. I could get by with a moderate battery life, but need it to actually turn off when the lid is closed. I think I finally have it set to hibernate any time the lid is closed and the charger is disconnected, but how fucking stupid not to ship it like that to begin with.

4/17/2015 3:26:00 PM

^Just use Intel Rapid start if you have an SSD. Basically sleep mode that doesn't drain your battery. When it's activated hibernate is automatically disabled.

[Edited on April 17, 2015 at 11:37 PM. Reason : s]

4/17/2015 11:36:45 PM

http://bensbargains.com/bargain/lenovo-y40-5th-gen-core-i7-8gb-1080p-14-0-laptop-629-at-lenovo-138816/

4/19/2015 1:34:44 PM

does apple have a patent on glass trackpads? why does no one else make one?

4/19/2015 4:22:01 PM

I bought my iMac about 8 months after my PC laptop that I got for grad school. iMac still works great whereas the laptop is basically a pile of dog shit (and has been for over three years now) even with a fresh copy of windows 7 on it and nothing else. Not sure if I just got unlucky with the laptop or lucky with the iMac but my work PC has also gone downhill rather rapidly in the two years I have owned it. Also, my wife is still using her MacBook that she got in spring of 2009.

I am far from a fanboy but if I had to get a new computer today and nothing I was doing required either I would go with a Mac just from the track record I have seen vs PCs in terms of quality and longevity.

4/19/2015 7:38:02 PM

my macbook pro is 6 years old.

any windows pc i've ever had has gone in the trash around 2-2.5 years because either the built in graphics card has failed or the screen/ chassis of the laptop has.

This thing has had a water bottle leak on it in my book back, my dog land on it, it fell out of my car once,... i jumped the couch and landed on it .. and 6 years later... still functions almost as good as new.

(i have added 8 gigs of ram tho)

4/20/2015 10:57:22 AM

If a macbook ages anything like the ipads, I want nothing to do with one.

Original iPad is pretty much unusable, and it isn't that old. Got a mini, probably only good for about another 2 years.

4/20/2015 12:09:12 PM

You can't really compare the Macs to the iPads, especially the first iPad. That was practically a new product class, of course advancements are going to happen quickly. And the first iPad IS old, but I know many people still using their iPad 2s.

But, the Macbook Pros with the SSDs do age extremely well. You can faster processors and higher res screens with the newer models, but the older ones can still pretty much do everything as the newer ones without mush issue.

4/20/2015 1:49:28 PM

I bought a MacBook Pro late 2010 and sold it 1.5 years later. Within the first few months the palm rest (area next to the trackpad) started clicking whenever I put my palm down. The inside casing was hitting something inside. It was the most annoying thing ever as my laptop made a physical clicking sound every time I put my palm down. The apple store recognized the problem and replaced the back cover twice but it never fixed the issue.

After 6 months of owning it the black hinge piece that connects the screen to the chassis cracked. I got it replaced and it cracked again 3 months later. This was due to a poor design decision where the screen hinge portion was closer to the right side and so there wasn't a gap on that side of the hinge causing pressure on the actual plastic hinge. The apple store guys replaced it again and said that happened a lot.

It also had various overheating and crashing issues (all over Google).

All the developers at my company have retina Macbook Pros and our IT manager said they're a pain to maintain and fix issues on compared to the Dell E7440's and Microsoft Surfaces we have.

I recognize some people think Apple makes quality hardware and software but I experienced and have seen just as many (if not more) issues than any other laptop manufacturer out there.

[Edited on April 20, 2015 at 4:03 PM. Reason : s]

4/20/2015 4:02:29 PM

I sat in RDU earlier today with my Space Gray Macbook and everyone was staring at me with jealousy/hate/contempt.

That makes it pretty great to me.

4/20/2015 6:34:27 PM

Nice you got a Facebook machine! Try doing any real work on it.

4/20/2015 6:54:58 PM

does everything I want it to do blazingly fast.

4/20/2015 10:08:27 PM

As I said...Facebook machine.

4/20/2015 10:45:49 PM

^that's the whole point. 95% of people on earth don't need much more than a chromebook when it comes to functionality. apple computers offer that little more, on hardware that's extremely durable, on top of a fairly stable software platform, because the hardware targets are so few and the patches so infrequent. the user experience for that 95% ends up being excellent and just helps feed the marketing machine that is apple, incrementally growing their profit margins.

4/21/2015 12:09:37 AM

This is only $169.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111648674279?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

4/21/2015 12:17:04 AM

32 gig drive.. my phone has more than that.

4/21/2015 8:52:12 AM

that's plenty of storage for facebook

4/21/2015 9:17:30 AM

^^^ I have one of those I'll sell for not much more than that in perfect condition

4/21/2015 10:06:07 AM

Quote :

"does apple have a patent on glass trackpads? "

yes, that's it exactly


the "lower specs" issue is trite and a horrible mischaracterization. if you're still looking at processor speed in 2015 and thinking it means something for the shit you run, then you need to wake up. these aren't gaming machines where you need to crank out FPS to pwn n00bs. I've used a top of the line MBP (and had a spell with an entry-level 2012 with 16gb of ram) in the past 2 jobs for design work (including video) and own a 5k iMac, after having used a windows machine for literally my entire computing life prior, and would never go back to windows for any reason whatsoever because of these reasons:

built in bash/git/apache/vnc/screen recording
shit just fucking works
spotlight/alfred app
gestures on trackpad/magic mouse
glass touchpad/glass surface on mouse
battery life
hardware quality
retina screens
time machine & migrating to a new machine is easy as hell
deep-seated integration between all of my devices - it's nice to be able to pick up a phone call on my laptop or iMac without having to pull my phone out, and it's nice to be able to send texts the same way
don't have to worry about any applications I install being undetectably incompatible with others -> this one is arguably the most important. I'll never forget trying to track down the causes of random crashes on windows boxes
Not having to install bullshit drivers to make a new piece of hardware work
Not having to deal with the nanny state of ITSec that is Windows User management and the idiocy that is UI Admin rights management in UAC in windows

[Edited on April 21, 2015 at 7:56 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2015 7:54:39 PM

That list is such a joke:

built in bash/git/apache/vnc/screen recording Installing a program is pretty easy.
shit just fucking works Don't even know where to begin here.
spotlight/alfred appWindows search is just as good if not better
gestures on trackpad/magic mouseEvery windows PC has the exact same gestures.
glass touchpad/glass surface on mouseYou have a glass surface on your mouse? My Dell Touchpad has a glass surface.
battery life Not any better. The current longest lasting battery life goes to the Dell XPS 13.
hardware qualityThe two Macbook Pros I've owned have had far more hardware defects than all my PC laptops put together
retina screensJoking right? Almost all laptop brands out today offer higher resolution screens than apple. The effective resolution on a 15" Macbook Pro is only 1600 by 900 via scaling.
time machine & migrating to a new machine is easy as hellIt's just as easy via a Microsoft account and signing on across multiple machines in the cloud. It's arguable even better on Microsoft because all their cloud surfaces integrate far better with Office
deep-seated integration between all of my devices - it's nice to be able to pick up a phone call on my laptop or iMac without having to pull my phone out, and it's nice to be able to send texts the same way Nothing new. You've been able to do this with various other services for a while.
don't have to worry about any applications I install being undetectably incompatible with others -> this one is arguably the most important. I'll never forget trying to track down the causes of random crashes on windows boxes I had more random crashes and memory issues on both my Macbook Pros than my last 2 Windows PCs (on Windows 8.1). It was far easier to crash OSX than Windows.
Not having to install bullshit drivers to make a new piece of hardware work Are you in 1999? You no longer have to install drivers for anything. It's been automated for years.
Not having to deal with the nanny state of ITSec that is Windows User management and the idiocy that is UI Admin rights management in UAC in windows Again it's a simple setting that takes you two seconds to modify. Last time I used OSX you still couldn't turn off the start up sound or do various other things without installing 3rd party software. The amount of shit I had to install to get things working properly compared to windows configuration options was a joke.

4/21/2015 9:49:28 PM

First of all, they're not 3x as much.

You have to look at the whole picture rather than just specs divided by price.

1. They look good. There's something to be said for a laptop built with quality materials that has an understated look. Aluminum + glass >>>> ugly plastic + garish design + 1000 stickers.

2. The retina MBP line is a great balance between size, weight, and battery life.

3. The OS is tuned specifically for the hardware -> fantastic battery life and performance.

4. Even though everyone wants to rag on Apple stuff for not having the ABSOLUTE greatest specs, what they do have is pretty cutting edge, comparatively speaking, and works well. PCIe (+ NVMe in newer models) flash across the board, no legacy ports, latest spec USB and Thunderbolt. They surely weren't the first with all that tech, but they pushed it into the mainstream.

5. The only OS that does HiDPI well. Yes Windows and Linux can do it, but not as well as OS X does. Consistency across the software stack is what matters here, and Windows and Linux development just isn't "pushed along" the way Apple pushes its developers towards supporting new OS/hardware improvements.

6. I used to hate trackpads and heavily favored the Thinkpad Trackpoint. I still wish I had a Trackpoint, but Apple's trackpad really is the best I've ever used, by a wide margin.

7. MagSafe is great (though it may be going away in favor of USB-C).

8. OS X is what a modern UNIX should be. Consistent, attractive UI, real shell access, and a minimum of the kind of "quirks" that makes ports of UNIX software to Windows so challenging. Plus, there's a very good amount of commercial software available.

9. Resale value is far better than what you'd hope to get with a Windows PC.

In my mind, they're worth the premium.

And to address a point ^ made:

Quote :

"Joking right? Almost all laptop brands out today offer higher resolution screens than apple. The effective resolution on a 15" Macbook Pro is only 1600 by 900 via scaling."

Sorta but not exactly. The panel is truly 2880x1800 but in the full retina mode yes, it's an effective resolution of 1440x900 since the UI assets are 2x. However, the full resolution is addressable by applications (i.e., in Photoshop your canvas that takes up say, a quarter of the screen really is displaying an image with a full 1440x900 resolution).

Personally, I just set it to scale to 1920x1200, which a) is better than most PC laptops, which seem to be forever stuck at 1920x1080 and b) still looks fantastic. And that mode behind the scenes is actually rendering at 3840x2400 and then being scaled down to 2880x1800, so applications can still address a far larger logical canvas than the displayed resolution. It's not quite as simple as "hur dur, they just doubled the pixels!!!"

[Edited on April 21, 2015 at 10:33 PM. Reason : ...]

4/21/2015 10:24:04 PM

My first laptop in 2003 had a 1920 by 1200 resolution.

I just haven't had luck with Macbook Pros. They've always had hardware issues and I always got OSX to crash quite consistently. I just upgraded my girlfriends late 2010 Macbook pro with an SSD and more ram and installed Yosemite. OSX has gotten a lot better in the last few years. Maybe I'll give it another shot sometime shortly.

Also I've gotten so used to touching my laptop screen now for various functions that I don't know if I could go back to a non-touch screen laptop. Plus the Macbook Pros are heavy and the design of the Macbook airs are ugly and dated. If they had redesigned the Macbook airs (got rid of the horrible bezel) and gave them higher resolution screens (1080p would be fine) then maybe I'd be sold.

All in all the Macbook Pros are too heavy, the airs too ugly with low screen resolutions, and the new Macbook is too underpowered. I want a high resolution laptop that is sub-3lb, has an i7 but also a long battery life. There's plenty of PC laptops that meet those requirements but no Apple laptop.

[Edited on April 21, 2015 at 11:21 PM. Reason : s]

4/21/2015 11:13:38 PM

Quote :

"If they had redesigned the Macbook airs (got rid of the horrible bezel) and gave them higher resolution screens (1080p would be fine) then maybe I'd be sold. "

That's basically what the new MacBooks are...

4/21/2015 11:20:42 PM

Quote :

"That's basically what the new MacBooks are..."

Not at all. They use a completely different processor (much less powerful). You can easily edit photos or videos on an i7 Macbook Air and it's quite performant. As previously stated you don't want to do any of that on the new Macbook.

Essentially Apple does not have a high resolution, powerful ultrabook when every other manufacturer on the market is making sub 3lb, 1080+, higher spec'd laptops.

4/21/2015 11:25:01 PM

Quote :

"built in bash/git/apache/vnc/screen recording Installing a program is pretty easy. "

Having the full suite of common *nix tools is a huge appeal with programmers. If you're thinking of Cygwin, cygwin is a joke... i'm not the norm, but having immediate access to sed, bc, ncat, curl, tcpdump, say, perl and python interpreters, without hunting around or questioning if they're installed correctly is a big boost in productivity. You could replicate these workflows on any OS, but not having to worry that the next OS update will horribly break things (usually) is what makes this compelling.

Quote :

"spotlight/alfred appWindows search is just as good if not better gestures on trackpad/magic mouseEvery windows PC has the exact same gestures. "

No windows laptops have come close to matching Apple's trackpad. The sensitivity of the trackpad and integration into the OS of gestures is miles away from the "fake" gestures Windows laptops have. I'll give you your other comments in the list, and a better trackpad isn't a deal breaker, but Apple has this done right. I do think Apple should add touchscreen, but Apple isn't going to add touchscreen into OS X until the OS has first class support for touch in its UI. Considering the direction Apple's going with force touch, it doesn't look like we'll see this for a few generations still in OS X.

Quote :

" retina screensJoking right? Almost all laptop brands out today offer higher resolution screens than apple. The effective resolution on a 15" Macbook Pro is only 1600 by 900 via scaling. "

Retina isn't just a high res screen. Windows has had built-in scaling for a LONG time, but even Windows 8 has scaling glitches in the OS on high-res displays. Are these glitches something you can live with? Sure, but OS X does scaling/Retina better than Windows. Maybe Windows 9 will fix these problems.

Quote :

"time machine & migrating to a new machine is easy as hellIt's just as easy via a Microsoft account and signing on across multiple machines in the cloud. It's arguable even better on Microsoft because all their cloud surfaces integrate far better with Office"

Cloud backup and time machine are different things. Time Machine is awesome, and Windows has nothing like it (i know because i spent a long time looking for an easy-to-use automatic background backup solution for my Windows install). OS X has iCloud, but Time Machine serves a different function.

Quote :

"deep-seated integration between all of my devices - it's nice to be able to pick up a phone call on my laptop or iMac without having to pull my phone out, and it's nice to be able to send texts the same way Nothing new. You've been able to do this with various other services for a while. "

Being able to "do" something, and being able to do it elegantly are different things. OS X/iOS does this more elegantly than other systems at this point.

It's 2015, if you can't admit Apple knows what they're doing in even a few domains, there's something wrong with you.

4/21/2015 11:37:00 PM