i'm fairly wide-open and can't make a decision

~30k budget

must have: 4 doors (2 car seats in the back) / leather seats / automatic transmission

prefer but not hard rules - used but not more than 5 years old / under 30,000 miles / plug-in hybrid (if not plug-in then don't really care about a non-plug-in hybrid) / 300+ hp

my wife is pretty adamant about avoiding 'luxury' brands - if i had my choice it'd likely be one of the following: ~35k s550 4-matic or an a8L 4.2 or if the updated chevy volt was available in GA then it'd be a top contender

i'm coming from a ford c-max energi plug-in hybrid - over the last 2 years i've averaged 79mpg doing 19,500 miles but spent a lot of it driving on the 118hp electric motor and while i do appreciate the electric 0-30 times i wouldn't mind something that was more fun - lease is up jan 31 and the buy price much more than it's worth based on what they are going for - if the dealership lets me walk away with it for 16k then i'll just buy it

car history:
'94 honda accord
'96 toyota camry
'05 nissan maxima
'14 ford c-max energi

12/26/2015 8:54:42 PM

An A8L?

12/26/2015 10:33:19 PM

a used one that goes for ~35k but yeah - my old boss has a 2014 a8L 4.2 that he bought new and it's a nice ride after the depreciation kicks in - i'm not afraid of the repair / maintenance costs being higher but my wife doesn't like the image that a luxury car sends - we tend to live well below our means - she doesn't care that i tell her i don't really care about the logo but i do want to enjoy the ride and while it's been fun getting great mpg i think it's time to be able to go faster

give me an argument to go with and i'll have a run at her but it's not very likely

12/26/2015 10:45:38 PM

I can't imagine driving a car that big. It would be most appropriate to include a driver name Jeeves.

That and the Audi 4.2l V8 is a mechanical nightmare.
http://redlinespeedworx.com/audi-v8-timing-chain-service-real-story/

Imho, that car is too complicated, expensive, and unreliable to deal with out of warranty.

12/26/2015 11:41:32 PM

How about a luxury brand one notch lower than MB, Audi and BMW? Like Lexus? Either a GS 430, LS 430, or LS 460. If you are open to SUVs (you only said 4 doors), Lexus has you covered there as well.

Non-SUV cars you might like, but I don't know how far back you would have to go to reach $30k:

- Cadillac CTS-V
- Cadillac STS-V
- Pontiac G8 GT
- Chevrolet SS

- Lexus IS F
- Lexus GS 430/460
- Lexus LS 430/460
- Infiniti M35/M45
- Acura TL/TLX
- Acura RL/RLX
- Hyundai Genesis V8 [before you laugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Genesis#Awards]

- MB E-Class, incl. AMG
- MB CLS-Class, incl. AMG
- BMW 5-Series, incl. M
- Audi A6, incl. S & RS
- Audi A7 !!!
- Jaguar XJ, incl. R
- Jaguar XF, incl. R
- Volvo S60, incl. R
- Volvo V70 (wagon), incl. R
- Volvo S80
- VW CC 3.6

For most of the European cars above and for the CTS, you also have wagons. Seriously, get a V70 R, CTS-V wagon, or an S6 wagon!

A7s in your price range:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A7-3-0-Prestige-/221977180202
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A7-3-0T-Premium-Plus-quattro-AWD-/221976494494
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A7-3-0-Premium-Plus-/151923460723

Gorgeous work of art in excellent condition:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jaguar-XJ-XJ6-Vanden-Plas-/191764704710


eBay is full of E55/63 AMGs, CLS55/63 AMGs, BMW M5s, Audi R/S6s, Volvo Rs, IS Fs, and CTS-Vs in your price range.


I know you said you are not afraid of maintenance costs, but any Lexus would be far cheaper to maintain than pretty much any of the European ones. And far more reliable as well.

12/27/2015 12:20:21 AM

let's start with what you really want, because what you describe doesn't exist.

age/miles
performance
PHEV (and why is it PHEV or not hybrid at all?)
price


at least one of those has to go away, partly because it narrows the field to zero, and partly because without knowing which qualification to toss out, who knows if we're going for a C63 AMG or a plug-in Prius?

it looks like everyone is ignoring the PHEV thing, but who knows if that's your intent.

12/27/2015 12:49:31 PM

i'm fine with the PHEV requirement going away because i'm not going to spring for the panamera plug-in - the only plug-in that is half-seriously on the table is the updated volt but i'm fine with waiting for technology to get better

in general - i don't think the additional price for the benefit is there for most hybrids but i'm fine with the hybrid part bringing additional power / torque - i'm happy to be proven wrong though

for the most part this car won't be leaving atlanta - we'll take my wife's SUV on trips due to the additional storage needed for the kids' stuff

12/27/2015 1:29:58 PM

What about a BMW i3? You can get it with the range extender if you want to be able to drive however far you want. It's not 300 hp fast, but it's pretty respectable. My guess is that it'll "feel" quicker than the numbers show, too, due to all that electric motor torque. I haven't driven one, but it seems like a really nice way to get >100 MPGe.

Otherwise, I think this is easy: 335i. Not the newest one, but an e90 (up through 2013). It's my favorite all-around car I've ever driven (i.e., not the best at anything, but very good at everything, to include price being reasonable). You could get a late model, low-mileage, very nice one for thousands under $30k.

[Edited on December 27, 2015 at 7:27 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on December 27, 2015 at 7:28 PM. Reason : BMW has somewhat fallen from my good graces, but I love the e90 335i.]

12/27/2015 7:23:48 PM

Wife is fairly against any luxury brand but I did find some nice used 550s and 335s - since it's likely only going to be kids in the back I'm fine with the smaller 3 series but I doubt she goes for it

12/28/2015 10:18:00 AM

^ what did you think of my suggestions, regardless of availability in your area and without considering your wife's wishes? which ones would you be interested in?

second, are there any brands from my suggestions that she might be ok with other than pontiac and chevy? possibly cadillac, vw, hyundai, lexus, and volvo?

12/28/2015 10:41:55 AM

BMW makes some junk these days, stay away

12/28/2015 10:43:28 AM

Not a big fan of Pontiac / VW / Cadillac / Volvo / Acura (although I like the rdx and mdx)

Realistically Pontiac and Cadillac are the only definite NOs though - I liked the rest

12/28/2015 11:04:41 AM

The new Volvo's are very nice, the quality has improved and they have a much more luxury feel. I used to not be a fan but the new ones have won me over.

... but the s60 has a very cramped back seat so probably not a great option anyways

12/28/2015 12:48:58 PM

back seat isn't a big deal to me because the car has 2 car seats in it - it's basically a 2 seater when it comes to carrying around anyone other than family

12/29/2015 10:27:44 PM

well then you should look at it, its a good way to get luxury feel without the luxury brand or stigma

12/30/2015 8:10:37 AM

A Passat W8 with a 6-sp manual and in near-new condition for just $18k!

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1151230102450/mint-2002-vw-passat-w8-with-manual-gearbox-is-quite-desirable

Oh sorry, you want automatic.

12/30/2015 11:57:38 AM

probably also doesnt want to have a second mortgage to pay for repairs

12/30/2015 12:29:52 PM

VWMSJ?

12/30/2015 1:43:44 PM

20 Awesome, Expensive Cars You Can Now Buy for Less than $20,000

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6526/20-awesome-expensive-cars-you-can-now-buy-for-less-than-20000/

These are cars that originally cost between $50k and $200k.

Now they sell for $10-20k in excellent condition.

Quote :

"Realistically Pontiac and Cadillac are the only definite NOs though"

And from my suggestions those are pretty much the only ones your wife would agree with

But seriously, a CTS-V or an STS-V fits your bill perfectly. Awesome performance, more reliable than European performance cars (and cheaper to maintain), are luxury + performance cars, and your wife will approve!

The R&T link mentions them too!

12/30/2015 2:41:34 PM

they do, but the W8 is even worse than normal for maintenance

12/30/2015 2:43:41 PM

i clearly don't have a wife, but she's not driving or paying for it so why does she get a say, particularly on something she can't quantifiably justify?

[Edited on January 3, 2016 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ?]

1/3/2016 4:35:07 PM

Were you being ironic on purpose?

1/3/2016 7:44:47 PM

Quote :

"i clearly don't have a wife, so my opinion doesn't matter"

1/3/2016 9:18:22 PM

First thing you need to do is remove your wife from any big decisions involving logic.

1/4/2016 8:43:06 AM

Quote :

"How about a luxury brand one notch lower than MB, Audi and BMW? Like Lexus?"

I would put Lexus in the same category of luxury as MB, Audi, and BMW.

1/4/2016 8:45:58 AM

^^,^^^

1/4/2016 10:00:49 AM

so i think i've worked past the idea of being able to convince my wife that brand doesn't matter - i just want something fun - as of saturday i had all but settled in on the link below - assuming they take my offer of 30k and everything checks out on it

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=397458871


i'm not ready to commit yet though and still thinking

1/4/2016 2:50:31 PM

Mind if I ask why you want AWD? It's a complete waste given that you live in GA.

1/4/2016 3:24:43 PM

Also do you need something that big?

[Edited on January 4, 2016 at 5:51 PM. Reason : I feel like you're over-correcting coming from that C Max. More fun can be had in a smaller package]

1/4/2016 5:49:11 PM

maybe i am overcorrecting - that's why i'm asking for opinions

i don't need something as big as the 5-series necessarily

the awd is more protection from doing something stupid like when my wife drives and hits the gas when turning on a wet day in a 400hp car

1/4/2016 6:08:43 PM

that's what stability control/traction control is for, AWD doesn't really help that situation

1/4/2016 7:56:25 PM

^^ have you driven a 335i? M3 out of your price or age range?

1/4/2016 11:54:57 PM

Quote :

"back seat isn't a big deal to me because the car has 2 car seats in it - it's basically a 2 seater when it comes to carrying around anyone other than family"

I don't know how old your kids are, but a cramped back seat will guarantee you're both getting kicked once they're toddlers. My daughter was a seat kicker and this resulted in us getting rid of our Jetta TDI after my wife couldn't take it anymore.

and if she's open to it, consider an audi a4 sportwagon. i think they go as new as '12. two different sets of friends with kids bought one and they love it. we had a bmw 5 series sportwagon that was awesome when it wasn't in the shop, but the repairs were a nightmare, and i'm pretty much done with bmw.

[Edited on January 5, 2016 at 11:29 AM. Reason : .]

1/5/2016 11:27:28 AM

i haven't driven a 335i yet - i looked briefly at a 2008 m3 but couldn't find a 4 door to my liking

1/5/2016 1:59:47 PM

there is no way the audi is any better maintenance wise vs the 5 series

1/5/2016 2:08:34 PM

good point on the kids kicking the seats - they are both rear facing currently but that won't be the case forever and i hadn't even though about it

1/5/2016 3:37:16 PM

^^ having never owned an audi, i'll defer on that. I should have mentioned I had an E60 5 series, which I learned far too late is one of the worst generations of any BMW vehicle for things breaking.

1/6/2016 5:02:33 PM

VWMSJ

[Edited on January 6, 2016 at 5:11 PM. Reason : seriously]

1/6/2016 5:11:42 PM

If you decide you want a manual e90 m3, get at me.

1/6/2016 11:42:56 PM

so far the frontrunner is a 2013 activehybrid 5 - trying subarus with eyesight tomorrow

[Edited on January 9, 2016 at 9:46 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2016 9:45:50 PM

currently the 2 front runners are these - i think i'd like a 5 series with active cruise control but haven't been able to find one in my price range - i've instead resorted to the legacy with eyesight

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=419119265

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=415263214

1/10/2016 10:32:19 PM

I’m scared of newer cars out of warranty.
I’m scared of hybrids out of warranty.
I’m scared of depreciation on a newer BMW.
I’m scared of reliability on a newer BMW.
I’m scared of AWD on any BMW.

What I’m saying is, I wouldn’t get the BMW.

1/10/2016 11:28:06 PM

dude, go drive an e90 335i before you buy anything else.

1/10/2016 11:28:47 PM

I’d look at smooth’s car. E90 M3 might be the last chassis/BMW I’d be interested in owning. 335i seems alright also, but I’d rather have the full monty. I guess I’m getting old, I don’t want active cruise and auto-emergency brake, and all of that...

1/10/2016 11:48:56 PM

Quote :

"I’m scared of newer cars out of warranty. I’m scared of hybrids out of warranty. I’m scared of depreciation on a newer BMW. I’m scared of reliability on a newer BMW. I’m scared of AWD on any BMW. What I’m saying is, I wouldn’t get the BMW."

it's a CPO with an extended warranty until 2019 - maintenance is still covered until feb 2017 - it's also rwd

Quote :

"dude, go drive an e90 335i before you buy anything else."

we drove a 2013 335i and the 5 won out - we weren't overly impressed with the 3's interior

Quote :

"I guess I’m getting old, I don’t want active cruise and auto-emergency brake, and all of that..."

i think i'm the opposite - i'm getting old and do want that

[Edited on January 11, 2016 at 8:02 AM. Reason : .]

1/11/2016 7:56:50 AM

Activehybrid 5 Series BMWs go through their starter batteries like a fat kid in a candy store.

1/11/2016 8:41:44 AM

Really might be worth your while to at least glance at a Hyundai Genesis. For a little over 30 you could probably get a low-mileage 2015 model, or perhaps even a leftover new 2015 if there are any sitting around dealerships. For probably $25K or less you could pick up a CPO 2011-2014 5.0 R-Spec. It's the previous generation, but 424 HP helps to balance that out.

1/11/2016 4:39:57 PM

That's a great suggestion. I agree.

1/11/2016 10:44:56 PM

Quote :

"we drove a 2013 335i and the 5 won out"

having driven two 335i (dad has a convertible and previously had a sedan) and a 535i (he has one of those, too), I am completely baffled, haha. He also had a 640i, and I preferred the 535i to that battleship, but even aside from the price difference, I prefer the 335i to the 535i, and in the case of the sedan, it's not even close.

What year 335i did you drive? Sedan, coupe, convertible?

the e90 sedan is my preference.

1/12/2016 12:21:46 AM

the 5 series has more room, is more comfortable, and the interior material quality/feel is a lot better. the youngest person on this site is probably 30+ so it shouldn't be surprising that some users prefer a more comfortable car that has a more luxury feel

If you can stretch your budget to about $35k you are in new/low-mile genesis territory (don't buy the previous gen)

1/12/2016 10:21:55 AM