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adultswim
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^^^
You're repeating Iraq war propaganda, minus the WMDs.

How can you look at these two things and say it's a humanitarian effort? I really want to hear your defense.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1088414772163461120?s=21

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/26/elliott-abrams-venezuela-us-special-envoy

1/28/2019 5:21:38 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"You cant call it "being caught" in the middle when you are sanctioning them"


Sanctions are not very nice- you’re right. I don’t approve of them either.

Do you suggest we do absolutely nothing? Because that option is cruel/inhumane, too.

I just have a real problem when people throw around terms like “democratically elected” in the same conversation as Maduro. I bet some of y’all think Che Guevara is universally adored by Argentinians.

[Edited on January 28, 2019 at 6:22 PM. Reason : Or that Castro wasn't "so bad"]

1/28/2019 6:20:57 PM

dtownral
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lmao that we're already going after their oil

Also lmao that Bolton leaked, "5000 troops to Columbia" by having his picture taken with it written on a yellow legal pad

[Edited on January 28, 2019 at 7:26 PM. Reason : School of the Americas or bust!]

1/28/2019 7:16:37 PM

synapse
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"I just have a real problem when people throw around terms like “democratically elected” in the same conversation as Maduro"


It's completely mind boggling. Dudes got some weird blinders on when socialists and commies are involved.

[Edited on January 28, 2019 at 8:00 PM. Reason : And it's our fault the country is so fucked up yada yada yada]

1/28/2019 7:59:22 PM

dtownral
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Russia going hard with the propaganda

1/28/2019 8:18:53 PM

rwoody
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It's frankly irrelevant if Maduro is democratically elected or not. If he's robbing the country blind or not.

1/28/2019 8:24:31 PM

adultswim
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it is our fault yes

still waiting on synapse and ujustwait to present a defense of Elliot Abrams.

[Edited on January 28, 2019 at 8:26 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2019 8:25:32 PM

LoneSnark
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Very true. Maduro is a dictator that riggs electrons and overthrew the democratically elected legislature. Sanctions have had little to no effect on Venezuela. None of this matters, the US should not get involved. That said, other than recognizing the new non-President as much of the West has done, I doubt the US is actually all that involved here. Adult swim has presented no evidence that the new non-President is a CIA plant.

1/28/2019 8:32:07 PM

adultswim
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Here’s a Venezuela scholar on the 2013 and 2018 elections if anyone wants context free of CIA propaganda:

https://reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/ak1wtu/_/ef0s31f/?context=1

1/28/2019 8:36:04 PM

rwoody
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^^nothing is currently happening but the history of the decision makers and their current comments are worrying.

[Edited on January 28, 2019 at 8:39 PM. Reason : E]

1/28/2019 8:38:57 PM

adultswim
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Cool cool

https://twitter.com/hoothootberns/status/1089857134920114176?s=21

1/28/2019 9:26:50 PM

moron
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^ that's literally Nauseating

1/28/2019 9:47:27 PM

LoneSnark
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It would be very helpful to the people of Venezuela if foreign oil companies could go in and fix the damage Maduro has caused to the Venezuelan state run oil company. So, while premature, it doesn't hurt to be prepared if it seems non-CIA forces are going to remove the dictator Maduro.

As for the troop crap, 5000 troops are not enough to invade and occupy Venezuela. Most likely just an offer to help with refugees or you hunt down drug dealers.

1/28/2019 9:50:17 PM

adultswim
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lmao

1/28/2019 9:56:19 PM

moron
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Do you really trust john bolton, of all people, to pull this off? If anything, we're closer to a chain of events leading to a world war with Bolton in charge, than a chain of events where the US can nation-build a stable Venezuela.

1/29/2019 12:38:51 AM

NyM410
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Let’s kill some FARC!

1/29/2019 10:05:49 AM

LoneSnark
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^^ Pull what off? Only adultswim seems to think the US is going to do anything militarily in Venezuela. The American-led coalition sent 177,194 troops into Iraq during the initial invasion phase. We have no news reports of massive mobilizations of any major military assets to the Venezuela border. We have some writing on a piece of paper that someone at some point has thought about sending maybe 5000 troops to Columbia. Someone asked a war-hawk if they thought the military was an option, an absurd question because they think the military is always an option.

So, can John Bolton pull off an occupation of Venezuela? Him and what army? So far it looks like it would be without the US's.

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .,.]

1/29/2019 10:34:50 AM

synapse
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"Only adultswim seems to think the US is going to do anything militarily in Venezuela"


Wait, what now? He actually thinks that?

1/29/2019 12:01:13 PM

UJustWait84
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Kinda hard to tell what he actually thinks, given how ignorant he seems to be about life in Latin America, let alone Venezuela.

1/29/2019 12:24:23 PM

adultswim
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"still waiting on synapse and ujustwait to present a defense of Elliot Abrams."

1/29/2019 12:29:51 PM

synapse
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What the fuck are you blathering about? I've never spoken on that person.

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 12:36 PM. Reason : How about you defend Charles Taylor while we're at it.]

1/29/2019 12:32:07 PM

adultswim
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You’re not even reading anything I’m posting. You just have it in your head that I’m wrong and won’t bother to examine the opposing point of view.

Quote :
"How can you look at these two things and say it's a humanitarian effort? I really want to hear your defense.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1088414772163461120?s=21

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/26/elliott-abrams-venezuela-us-special-envoy"

1/29/2019 12:35:50 PM

synapse
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"You just have it in your head that I’m wrong and won’t bother to examine the opposing point of view"


that's rich.

Quote :
"I don't really care about your opinions on Venezuela"

Quote :
"I don't really care about your opinions on Venezuela"

Quote :
"I don't really care about your opinions on Venezuela"


and I'm far from alone.

1/29/2019 12:37:33 PM

adultswim
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I don’t care about LoneSnark’s opinion because he’s perpetually disingenuous.

Still waiting to hear why you are okay with a serial torturer, death squad advocate, and convicted war criminal as special envoy to Venezuela.

1/29/2019 12:41:34 PM

eleusis
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"If anything, we're closer to a chain of events leading to a world war with Bolton in charge, than a chain of events where the US can nation-build a stable Venezuela."


The US may not be capable of nation building in Venezuela, but Brazil and Colombia likely could and seem to be willing to get heavily involved.

1/29/2019 1:35:54 PM

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Dude. You keep saying over and over that Maduro was "democratically elected".

That assertion is laughable, and the only corners of the world that agrees with you are Russia, North Korea and Iran.

Lonesnark detailed why that assertion was incorrect, and you can't even respond to him on the merits of his points, instead saying "I don't really care about your opinions on Venezuela" and now calling him "disingenuous".

And you expect people to take you seriously? I mean I don't, because you called literally everyone White Supremacists in another thread, but for those ITT who didn't have the pleasure of reading that shitpile, you expect *them* to take you seriously?

1/29/2019 1:36:41 PM

synapse
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"Still waiting to hear why you are okay with..."


Can you not read?

Quote :
"I've never spoken on that person."

1/29/2019 1:38:03 PM

adultswim
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"Here’s a Venezuela scholar on the 2013 and 2018 elections if anyone wants context free of CIA propaganda:

https://reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/ak1wtu/_/ef0s31f/?context=1"


Quote :
""I've never spoken on that person.""


You're taking the side of interventionism, so I'm asking how you justify who's in charge and their intentions.

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 1:42 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2019 1:38:58 PM

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The only side I'm taking the one identifying you as an idiot.

1/29/2019 2:31:30 PM

Dentaldamn
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How can you not be skeptical of this election?!? Regardless of US bullshit, how can you look at this and think “totally kosher!”

1/29/2019 2:42:31 PM

LoneSnark
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^^^ I feel safe saying that not a single person here in this thread is in favor of a military invasion of Venezuela. That is just you building straw men. And saying things on tv is not intervention.

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ^]

1/29/2019 2:42:41 PM

adultswim
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"How can you not be skeptical of this election?!? Regardless of US bullshit, how can you look at this and think “totally kosher!”"


I don't believe it's totally kosher, but it is as democratic as the US, where elections are bought with money, voter suppression is rampant, and districts are literally drawn to keep conservatives in power.

Again:

https://reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/ak1wtu/_/ef0s31f/?context=1"

Quote :
"I wrote about this in chapter four of my book. Maduro has won two Presidential elections: 2013 and 2018.

The 2013 Elections

Nicolas Maduro came to power in 2013, after he won the vote 51% to 49%, winning 15 of 23 states.

The Venezuelan elections are perhaps the most heavily monitored in the world, and in order to vote you need your picture ID card. Once you have been checked you vote on an electronic machine which reads your thumb print. So you need to pass 2 tests in order to vote. The machine also gives you a paper ballot which you put in a locked box. The paper ballots are checked to see if they match the electronic vote. They must match perfectly. In 2013 it was accurate to 99.98% (22 votes). This is watched over by international monitors and party members from all sides. This system is considered ““in line with its advanced technological level” according to the EU and Jimmy Carter said “I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world . . . they have a very wonderful voting system.”

Opposition/US media/Us government claims:

The opposition/US government claims that the elections are not clean because the government has control over the media and pressures the public into voting for them. Yet a report by the Washington-based, Washington funded Carter Center, who are paid by the US to go and monitor their enemies’ elections, and are staffed with anti-Chavez staff declared the election exemplary. In fact, the Carter Center found that the opposition candidate received nearly double the coverage of Maduro in the media, most of it being positive, with the majority of Maduro’s coverage being negative. Furthermore, a report from AGB Nielsen (of the Neilsen ratings) found that state TV’s share of the market was under 10%. The Carter Center also found that less than one per cent of Venezuelans reported feeling pressured into voting- and twice as many reported being pressured to vote for the opposition than Maduro.

Every single country in the world acknowledged the 2013 elections as free and fair, except the United States. Yet the US media, by a 12:1 ratio, presented the elections as unclean or worse, a sham. The Washington Post stated,

“Unsurprisingly, polls show that Mr. Maduro will win this grossly one-sided contest. If by some chance he does not, the regime is unlikely to accept the results” (April 12th).

Even the UK media displayed a 3:1 ratio of unclean to clean.

2018 Elections

I wrote a paper about the 2018 elections and how the media covered them. First of all, the reason there were elections in the first place was because the US and the opposition demanded the 2019 elections be brought forward. Surprisingly, Maduro accepted. Then the US and opposition demand they be postponed. So Maduro accepted that too. Then much of the opposition decided to boycott the election anyway, which resulted in them not registering for it (hence the story that they were “barred” from competing). The government asked the UN to come to inspect the elections, but the US demanded they did not because they would “validate” them. The US actually tried to intimidate the main opposition candidate, Henri Falcon from running.

As far as I am aware, three international election observation teams observed the 2018 elections.

The report of the African Nations’ delegation stated The Venezuelan people who chose to participate in the electoral process of May 20 were not subject to any external pressures, and carried out their right to vote in a peaceful and civil manner which we commend... As such, we implore the international community to abide by international law and the principles of self-determination and recognize what we consider to be a free, fair, fully transparent and sovereign election.

The Caribbean preliminary report mission’s report was similarly positive.

The Latin American Council of Electoral Experts (CEELA), consisting of senior election co-ordinators, most from countries openly hostile to Venezuela, praised the “high level of security and efficiency”, noting that the vote reflected “the will of its citizens, freely expressed in the ballot box”.

There were also other senior figures observing the election, like former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Zapatero who said "I do not have any doubt about the voting process. It is an advanced automatic voting system.” Or ex-President of Ecuador Rafael Correa who said "The Venezuelan elections are developing with absolute normalcy. I’ve attended four polling stations. There is a permanent flow of citizenship, with short waiting and voting times. Very modern system with double control. From what I’ve seen, [it’s] impeccable organization."

In fact, the strongest criticism from those three reports was probably that there were some voting stations were not on the ground floor, meaning some voters had trouble accessing them.

However, the international reaction was mixed this time, with much of the West condemning the elections. The EU, for example, expressed concerns. Nevertheless, as far as I am aware, I have quoted and given links to every observation team's study of the 2018 election. As one commenter has pointed out, Leopoldo Lopez, a key opposition figure, is under house arrest. However, if I may, I think it is deceitful of some people to throw out factoids without explaining the context. You hear "opposition leader in jail" in the media and think "wow, that's fucked up". However, Lopez is under house arrest because he led a wave of terroristic violence in 2014 aimed at overthrowing the government, that included beheading passers-by, bombing schools and kindergartens and attacking doctors. Lopez also once kidnapped the Minister of the Interior on live television. It is a pretty open-and-shut case that he is guilty.

Nevertheless, the election system itself has integrity. The media likes to say it is totally corrupt but didn't seem to complain when the election system delivered a resounding victory for the opposition in the 2015 elections. Somehow that one was ok.

Edit: I should also note that the US (and the media) has claimed every election in Venezuela since 2000 is fraudulent.
"


[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 2:51 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2019 2:47:57 PM

adultswim
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Quote :
"And saying things on tv is not intervention."


See, this is why I don't care to engage with you. You're completely ignoring our past and present sanctions, economic sabotage, and long history of coup attempts.

1/29/2019 2:53:57 PM

dtownral
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^^ why is that guy skipping the 2017 election?

1/29/2019 3:05:16 PM

LoneSnark
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^^^ And why no mention of the arrest of opposition candidates and the barring of opposition candidates from the ballot, the actual complaint?

No reason to rig voting machines when the real opposition candidates aren't allowed on the ballot, rather than the ones Maduro chose to run against.

So, for those here that don't know, Maduro's government proclaimed that no candidate that had been involved in "illegal" street protests could appear on the presidential ballot. Well, street protests are a big element of the opposition political movement, so of course any opposition candidates worth anything had been involved in a street protest or two. All of which were illegal, of course, because publicly protesting the regime in Maduro's Venezuela is illegal.

To say US elections are as bad would require Trump banning any Democratic candidates that had attended a protest on the Washington Mall then being surprised when the Democratic party boycotts the following sham election, then looses as a result. Sure, the Democrats would lose such an election, but that wouldn't make Trump a real President.

1/29/2019 3:33:04 PM

adultswim
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^^
Maduro wasn't up for re-election in 2017 and he's answering the question of Maduro's legitimacy.

2017 was problematic, but the decision to give the TSJ more power was reversed shortly after, ordered by Maduro himself. Comparisons could be drawn to a US national emergency where powers of the executive branch are expanded.

^
Quote :
"As one commenter has pointed out, Leopoldo Lopez, a key opposition figure, is under house arrest. However, if I may, I think it is deceitful of some people to throw out factoids without explaining the context. You hear "opposition leader in jail" in the media and think "wow, that's fucked up". However, Lopez is under house arrest because he led a wave of terroristic violence in 2014 aimed at overthrowing the government, that included beheading passers-by, bombing schools and kindergartens and attacking doctors. Lopez also once kidnapped the Minister of the Interior on live television. It is a pretty open-and-shut case that he is guilty."


You want to see an actually fucked up example of jailing the opposition, look at the fascists in Brazil who jailed Lula, and who are now calling Maduro illegitimate for the same reasons. Insanity.

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2019 3:37:05 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"^^
Maduro wasn't up for re-election in 2017 and he's answering the question of Maduro's legitimacy.

2017 was problematic, but the decision to give the TSJ more power was reversed shortly after, ordered by Maduro himself. Comparisons could be drawn to a US national emergency where powers of the executive branch are expanded.
"

uh 2017 has everything to do with his legitimacy, and problematic is an understatement

1/29/2019 3:49:16 PM

synapse
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Hm. It's almost as if corrupt governments can charge their political opponents with bullshit crimes to silence them. CRAAAAAAAZZZY


Quote :
"Human rights groups consider López as "Latin America's most prominent political prisoner".[15] Multiple organizations denounced López's detention and published discussions about it in order to bring attention to his arrest.[77] Human Rights Watch said: "The Venezuelan government has openly embraced the classic tactics of an authoritarian regime, jailing its opponents, muzzling the media, and intimidating civil society."[90] HRW further accused the Maduro government of blaming opposition leaders, including López, for violence. The Human Rights Foundation, founded and run by López's first cousin, Thor Halvorssen Mendoza,[28][117] declared López a prisoner of conscience and joined other international organizations in calling for his immediate release. “With López’s imprisonment and the brutally repressive tactics that police, armed forces, and paramilitary groups are using against his supporters, the Venezuelan state has lost any democratic façade it may have had,” said HRF chairman Garry Kasparov.[118] Former students from Kenyon College put forth an effort to support López since he was detained and helped create freeleopoldo.com.[77] Editorial columns from The New York Times and The Washington Post have also called for his release.[77] Since out of nearly 700 total hours of court testimonies the defense spoke for less than three, the trial has been called a farce.[citation needed] With polls indicating López could have won a presidential election,[119] his incarceration has been called the mark of a dictatorship.[citation needed]

At the 2014 Clinton Global Initiative meeting, U.S. President Barack Obama called for the release of López saying, "We stand in solidarity with those who are detained at this very moment."[120] The United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention ruled in 2014 that López was detained arbitrarily and that the Venezuelan government "violated several of their civil, political and constitutional rights" while demanding his immediate release.[12] The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein, called for the immediate release of López and all Venezuelans arrested during the 2014 protests.[121] In November 2014, Socialist International agreed with the UN's ruling, calling López's arrest arbitrary.[96] On 19 December 2014, the chief diplomat of the European Union, Federica Mogherini, said that she was "seriously concerned" about "continuous arbitrary arrests" in Venezuela, with the EU resolution noting that Leopoldo Lopez "suffered physical and psychological torture" and also denounced the situations of opposition mayors Daniel Ceballos and Vicencio Scarano.[122]

The Venezuelan government condemned the statements by the United States and the United Nations demanding them to not interfere in Venezuelan affairs.[123] The Venezuelan government replied to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights with a letter directed to him stating that it was "senseless" to release López and claimed that Prince Zeid bin Ra'ad's statements were "undoubtedly part of the international media manipulation that has been denounced by the top leadership of the Bolivarian Government".[124]

In 2016, the Dalai Lama supported López, with human rights attorney Tamara Sujú sharing a picture on Twitter of the Dalai Lama stating that he continued to pray for López.[125]

Amnesty International said, "The charges brought against Venezuelan opposition leader Leopoldo López smack of a politically motivated attempt to silence dissent in the country." Guadalupe Marengo, Amnesty International Americas Programme Deputy Director, called on Venezuelan authorities to “either present solid evidence to substantiate the charges against López or release him immediately and unconditionally ... Amnesty International has not seen evidence to substantiate these charges. This is an affront to justice and free assembly.”[126] After López was sentenced to 13 years in prison, Amnesty International declared that, "Leopoldo López is a prisoner of conscience and should be immediately released without conditions".[13]"


[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 3:52 PM. Reason : the willful ignorance being displayed here is insane]

1/29/2019 3:51:24 PM

LoneSnark
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That said, it seems I should have done my research better. I apologize. It turns out that I do in fact believe Juan Guaidó has quite a bit more right to be president of Venezuela than Maduro does. After-all, no one is alleging that Juan Guaidó interfered with his opposition's attempt to run against him. The opposite, actually.

Quote :
"The Venezuelan opposition bases its actions on the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution, specifically Article 233 establishing that the leader of National Assembly is to hold office in the absence of a legitimate President, which they say is the case after the 2018 Venezuelan presidential elections."

So there we have it. By only holding sham elections, Maduro has caused there to be no President at all, so the Constitution establishes that the leader of the National Assembly, which happens to be Juan Guaidó, assumes the roll of President.

Of course, I'm surprised to learn that Juan Guaidó considers himself a Socialist, so this is really a battle of dueling Socialists.

1/29/2019 3:52:09 PM

adultswim
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^
More disingenuity

^^
Quote :
"I'll address the international concern point though:

Take the OAS, for example, which has condemned Lopez's arrest. The OAS leader, Luis Almagro calls Lopez a "dear friend". Indeed, one of the writers of the OAS report on Lopez was actually Lopez's lawyer! This seems like quite the conflict of interest. In fact, Jose Mujica, Luis Almagro's former boss and current former President of Uruguay, has called for him to step down.

Furthermore, in justifying Congress’ 2018 funding of the OAS, USAID argued that the organization is crucial to “promoting US interests in the Western hemisphere by countering the influence of anti-US countries such as Venezuela”. In other words: it is a propaganda organization. The OAS was explicitly set up as an anti-socialist organization and has barred countries like Cuba from joining. In fact, one of its first pronouncements was that communism is “incompatible with the principles and objectives” of Latin America. But it had little problem with all the far-right dictatorships in the late 20th century by comparison. Almagro also had virtually nothing to say about the coup in Brazil in 2016.

And let’s take Human Rights Watch. Their reports on Venezuela have been awful for years. Many have denounced the “revolving door” between high US government jobs and HRW. On one particularly bad report on Venezuela, Two Nobel Laureatues and over 100 Latin American studies specialists (including Chomsky) claimed HRW’s reporting “does not even meet the most minimal standards of scholarship”.

Human Rights Watch, lets remember, was actually started as "Helsinki Rights Watch" and began life as a Western organization monitoring the crimes and misdeeds of Communist countries. It categorically refuses to accept economic and social rights, such as the right to water or food, as rights, its founder calling them "authoritarian".

While it condemns Venezuela at every step it was virtually silent on the coup in Honduras in 2009.. Here's a good interview about HRW.

There was also a good episode of the Citations Needed Podcast) about Human Rights Watch and the "human rights concern troll industry."

So it is true that a lot of organizations have condemned it, but again, the truth is always much more murky once we get past these glib factoids media throw out."

1/29/2019 3:56:00 PM

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I didn't say anything about "Human Rights Watch"

and that paragraph doesn't address the overwhelming opinion that Lopez's charges are politically motivated, not based on any actual crimes committed. But here you are quoting shit about beheadings. AND they dropped the murder charges. Willful ignorance at it again!

1/29/2019 4:21:44 PM

JesusHChrist
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Haven't bothered reading the whole thread, but are there people in here who seriously doubt the US's involvement with the coup going on in Venezuela? Like we haven't done this multiple times before, in both this specific country about 20 years ago and also the entirety of Latin America?

Knock Maduro all you want (he has serious flaws that need to be addressed), but the obvious US involvement here is impossible to just gloss over.

Or is this just one of those things where casual Soap Box racists think that these savage brown countries just fall into disrepair all on their own and need the benevolent guidance of their northern guardians?

1/29/2019 4:42:07 PM

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No we're mostly just disproving this stupidity:

Quote :
"Maduro is their democratically elected leader"

1/29/2019 4:44:25 PM

JesusHChrist
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Then how do you explain this gem:

Quote :
"Kinda hard to tell what he actually thinks, given how ignorant he seems to be about life in Latin America, let alone Venezuela."



If life is so difficult in Latin America, is it because these savage brown people are inherently incapable of self governing? Is their misery self inflicted? Do they need the guiding light of American intervention? Do they need to be civilized by Uncle Sam? Re-colonized?


Square that circle, please.


[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2019 4:50:58 PM

Dentaldamn
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Well this thread is a mess

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 5:05 PM. Reason : Derp]

1/29/2019 4:54:40 PM

JesusHChrist
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It's just amazing to me that anybody who lives in a country that is ACTIVELY rounding up brown people and trying to build a wall to keep out Latin Americans could then turn around and say, "Oh actually, these people kind of are a problem and the US isn't totally guilty of meddling with their governments"

If you're against the wall, then you need to be against US imperialism both domestically and abroad. Nobody can honestly believe that the US government--which is currently criminalizing the very existence of Latin Americans in this country--is then going to turn around and act in their best interests in their country of origin. Ain't happening

1/29/2019 5:09:59 PM

Dentaldamn
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Lol. When has the US acted in the best interests of any self described socialist country that’s even remotely hostile to rich peoples money?!?

No one gives a shit about Bolivia or Uruguay bc they don’t cause any “issues”.

1/29/2019 5:25:26 PM

JesusHChrist
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I think we're in agreement? My comment was addressed to anybody who thinks US intervention would be in the best interests of foreign citizens rather than in the best interests of capital

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 5:39 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2019 5:33:49 PM

adultswim
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https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/29/venezuelans-oppose-intervention-us-sanctions-poll/

81% of Venezuelans oppose sanctions, 86% oppose foreign military intervention, 78% oppose international intervention to remove Maduro from power

[Edited on January 29, 2019 at 6:03 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2019 5:54:12 PM

aaronburro
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Quote :
"Do you suggest we do absolutely nothing? Because that option is cruel/inhumane, too."

Sanctions don't generally help, and there's no reason to think they would help here. They usually provide a convenient external excuse for a regime's failure in leadership, thereby unintentionally strengthening said regime. In the process, you usually end up starving the people you are trying to help.

As much as it sucks, "nothing" is probably the right thing to do here.

1/29/2019 6:19:23 PM

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