^Im not saying I'm happy about the surveillance state, but the FISA courts are far from worthless.

3/4/2017 9:15:58 PM

Quote :

"I've always thought healthy skepticism of the media is a good thing, but when it gets to the point (as it seems to me it has) that a significant portion of the population considers Infowars a more credible source than NYT"

The thing you were responding to was dumb, but this is pretty dumb too.

How do you define significant?

3/4/2017 11:49:30 PM

Here I would say more than ~15% is significant, and yeah, I'm kinda pulling that number out of my ass. I don't know that in reality the numbers are that high, but my gut feeling says its close, and quite possibly greater than that right now.

At any rate, I get the feeling there's about 15 to 20% of the population for which there can be NO smoking gun against Trump for any form of corruption, Russian or otherwise. For these people, all evidence that comes out against Trump will simply be dismissed as a fabrication by a corrupt liberal media.

3/5/2017 12:55:14 AM

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/838353481526312961

Take his fucking Twitter away. Treat him like a five year old or like your grandfather with dementia. Why is this so hard? He is cruising towards a "you can't handle the truth" moment obviously.

3/5/2017 7:15:54 AM

Lol, he's using the beatsunc response

3/5/2017 8:40:11 AM

Are we at all worried that Mar-A-Lago is basically demonstrable first-hand pay for play?

And that foreign governments know it.

https://twitter.com/pbpost/status/838179167392907264

[Edited on March 5, 2017 at 8:49 AM. Reason : X]

3/5/2017 8:48:07 AM

Quote :

"I've always thought healthy skepticism of the media is a good thing, but when it gets to the point (as it seems to me it has) that a significant portion of the population considers Infowars a more credible source than NYT"

interesting you mentioned NYT.

http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/03/02/devastating-proof-media-bias-new-york-times-airbrushes-away-democrats-embarrassing-false-claim-without-trace/


i want to make clear i think people should be skeptical of ALL news media.

3/5/2017 11:07:59 AM

https://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/03/03/us/politics/ap-us-mccaskill-fact-check.html

They were trying to cover it up so much that they made it its own story. What a scoop!

Be skeptical of every and all news but you're trying to play some weird equivalency game again here where none exists.

[Edited on March 5, 2017 at 11:18 AM. Reason : I'm sure the counter will be "red state made them do it once caught!"]

3/5/2017 11:17:56 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/unhinged-trump-advisor-roger-stone-launches-into-twitter_us_58bba372e4b0fa65b844b44f

I'm not a fan of huffington post but check this one out. jesus. his whole team is going crazy now, not just him.

3/5/2017 3:21:44 PM

Roger Stoneadmitted to colluding with Assange, lol

3/5/2017 3:57:20 PM

https://aheadofthe.news/trumps-evidence-for-obama-wiretap-claims-relies-on-sketchy-anonymously-sourced-reports/

Quote :

"The White House provided three other sources. Two, a National Review article and a Fox News interview, are simply derivative of the Heat Street article, with no independent confirmation. The third is a New York Times report that intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a probe of possible links between Russian officials and Trump campaign aides. (We recall the president has previously deemed Times reporting on this matter as fake news.)"

lol

3/5/2017 5:07:06 PM

Times article about Comey is interesting.

Basically saying FBI knows the story is complete nonsense but won't come out and say it unless DoJ does (which is what they are urging).

Bit different handling then last summer but is what it is.

I legitimately think Comey is non-partisan but has been pressured and put in AWFUL situations. He will be replaced by Trump almost assuredly I bet.

[Edited on March 5, 2017 at 5:35 PM. Reason : X]

3/5/2017 5:33:59 PM

So do all of his most unhinged Tweets come on the weekends? When he is away from his handlers at the white house? And probably just after he goes on a coke-binge?

3/5/2017 5:53:02 PM

Quote :

"i want to make clear i think people should be skeptical of ALL news media."

Well that's not what's happening. They're skeptical of mainstream media but in Trump they Trust.

3/5/2017 7:08:37 PM

They also trust infowars and breitbart.

Infowars is being normalized amongst the GOP now, let that sink in.

3/5/2017 7:19:06 PM

Apparently the Obama wiretap story was circulated by Breitbart but originated from Mark Levin?

Totally credible.

[Edited on March 5, 2017 at 8:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/5/2017 8:21:02 PM

Trumps organization apparently did deals with Iran and the revolutionary guard.

Points to culture around Trump and within the organization. Russia by extension is just more of the same if true.

https://qz.com/925067/the-trump-organizations-azerbaijan-partner-supports-iranian-terrorists-says-the-new-yorker/

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/inside-trump-s-worst-deal-891033155865

3/6/2017 11:01:35 AM

The travel ban saga is just embarrassing. It makes it seem like people in the US government are writing laws without understanding how the current laws work. This is pathetic. Why even bother with a second version if the second version states that "people without pre-approved visas are not allowed in"... Well, no shit. Really?

3/6/2017 11:35:09 AM

How's it going, echo-chamber?

LOL @ people who read HuffingtonPost critiquing Breitbart.

3/6/2017 12:11:03 PM

The problem with American politics today is that when Obama became president in 2008, the right retreated into their own echo chamber. Idea bounced around in there for 8 years, continuously getting stronger. Now, the left is retreating into their echo chamber because of Trump, so we're going to see the same thing happen to them. With both sides generally walled off from each other, we're not going to get anywhere.

3/6/2017 12:17:27 PM

It's the both sides Olympics!

[Edited on March 6, 2017 at 12:23 PM. Reason : When something like birtherism becomes mainstream left-think you'd have point]

3/6/2017 12:23:15 PM

^^You can thank Congressional Redistricting for that!

3/6/2017 1:25:19 PM

Quote :

"Now, the left is retreating into their echo chamber because of Trump, so we're going to see the same thing happen to them."

this is not the case, at all. can we please stop playing the False Equivalency Game?

3/6/2017 1:59:48 PM

You continue to put the blame 100% on one side. See how far that gets you.

You....you are absolutely unrelenting in your retarded politics. Maybe it doesn't feel like you're in an echo chamber though, since you have to yell so much louder for you to hear the echos, because your chamber is so much larger.

3/6/2017 2:14:42 PM

Quote :

"You continue to put the blame 100% on one side. See how far that gets you. You....you are absolutely unrelenting in your retarded politics. Maybe it doesn't feel like you're in an echo chamber though, since you have to yell so much louder for you to hear the echos, because your chamber is so much larger."

retarded politics? what?

[Edited on March 6, 2017 at 2:26 PM. Reason : in case you delete ]

3/6/2017 2:25:29 PM

Your politics are retarded. Why would I delete that? I'm not one of those who post it and go back and erase it.

It's like you think we all think and act like JCE.

3/6/2017 2:38:24 PM

what about my politics is retarded?

are you trying out a new persona?

3/6/2017 2:46:51 PM

Your politics might be "retarded" if your entire playbook is:

-Reference disparities of outcome and falsely suggest they are disparities of opportunity due to membership in a "victimized" collective

-Call the opposition ____ist and ____phobic

Seriously leftists, read rules for radicals and get some better material... you had the mainstream media, Hollywood, celebrities all in your pocket and you lost to Donald fucking Trump lmao

3/6/2017 3:38:03 PM

Although it may be anecdotal, most liberals that I know at least somewhat browse conservative news outlets for their take on news stories and reports, even if only for the purpose of ridiculing them; however, most conservatives that I know refuse to view or even glance at any non-conservative new sources (whether they be liberal or simply "lamestream" media outlets).

I feel like the right-wing echo chamber is a bit deeper than the left-wing one.


Also, I feel like if you knew anyone with a mental disability or who had a family member with one, you wouldn't refer to anyone's anything as retarded.

3/6/2017 3:50:56 PM

^

3/6/2017 3:51:49 PM

^^ I think it's regional. If you live/grow up in NC, you can't help but have copious numbers of conservatives on your social media, so you'll either be inundated with breitbart/conservative treehouse/allen west/hermain cain whether you want to or not.

If you live in a liberal area, most of your friends might be left-leaning and you'll see few conservative sources.

TWW being based in NC is going to have more "liberals" that are exposed to conservative viewpoints than probably places like NYC or LA or DC where news media companies are HQd.

OTOH, liberals by the nature of the ideology are going to be more willing to compromise or be open-minded.

3/6/2017 4:15:11 PM

These days, I make a habit of checking the Washington Post on a daily basis. I actually like their website. I also make sure to check CNN even though I feel like they've gone off the rails more than other left-ish sites. I know other conservatives who do the same, so we can throw anecdotes out all day long.

But he's delusional if he thinks there's no echo chamber for the left. Sure, in NC it goes deeper. But have you checked out that CA secession thread lately?

3/6/2017 4:26:09 PM

who made the claim that there is no echo-chamber on the left?

and you still haven't answered my question

3/6/2017 4:29:40 PM

Quote :

"Maybe it doesn't feel like you're in an echo chamber though, since you have to yell so much louder for you to hear the echos, because your chamber is so much larger."

This is poetry y'all lol.

There are echo chambers on both sides but the problem is they each encompass a disparate set of facts, not just opinions. You just can't have a constructive debate when you can't even agree on the basic facts of the issue at hand.

3/6/2017 4:40:07 PM

one chamber is in a realm of reality, and the other is not

there is no comparison, especially given who currently has the ear of the President

3/6/2017 4:45:25 PM

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/838874217852567552

White House press release (left) contains full paragraph copied verbatim from Exxon press release (right).

https://t.co/GL6hXuTk78
https://t.co/xQpj2I2w9F

[Edited on March 6, 2017 at 5:13 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2017 5:11:47 PM

UncuckedPatriotNews.com is the most reliable source

3/6/2017 5:13:50 PM

https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/838876713887100928

I have great respect for Kelly.... but this is inhuman. Monster like.

3/6/2017 5:24:11 PM

^ "THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Between academia, the media, and even TWW, the left's echo chamber is much larger and more troublesome than the right's.

There is also much more group-think on the left, which makes sense since by nature your side is collectivist where the right is individualist... which explains the gullible useful idiot parade "activism" and mob-mentality rioting all coming from the left.

Quote :

"liberals by the nature of the ideology are going to be more willing to compromise or be open-minded"

You aren't liberals. Classical liberals cared about free speech, limited government, and individual liberty. You are leftists. The only thing you people are liberal about are sex and drugs, everything else you are authoritarian.



[Edited on March 6, 2017 at 5:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/6/2017 5:33:11 PM

Quote :

"Your politics might be "retarded" if your entire playbook is: ... -Call the opposition ____ist ... Seriously leftists..."

So now we know what JCE thinks of his own strategy

3/6/2017 5:35:25 PM

That's clever of you.

Though it doesn't really work if "leftist" isn't viewed as an insult to half of the people involved.

3/6/2017 5:39:11 PM

3/6/2017 5:40:09 PM

Quote :

"You aren't liberals. Classical liberals cared about free speech, limited government, and individual liberty. You are leftists"

This is demonstrably false. In my case at least. Especially the speech part.

3/6/2017 5:43:33 PM

^ You're right, you I wouldn't categorize as a leftist. 90% of TWW is though

3/6/2017 5:45:43 PM

There are maybe two or three regular posters on this board that you could realistically describe as leftists. The rest that you are lambasting fall quite squarely into the liberal category as it currently exists.

3/6/2017 6:25:56 PM

You can usually tell the difference when you watch some party in-fighting. The two groups obviously have a lot of overlap, but differentiate on some pretty major points.

Liberals HATE being critiqued from those on the left who oppose wars of empire, mass incarceration and surveillance, bad trade deals, Wall Street, and unfettered capitalism.

You can usually identify a Liberal when he or she blames Jill Stein, or "Bernie-bros" for Clinton's defeat, rather than critiquing their corporate-capitalist policies that have led to mass resentment of the party. When asked to defend these positions, rather than confronting their own shortfalls, they instead simply argue "What, you think the Republicans are any better?" They then point to their progressive social policies as a way of distracting from their terrible economic policies.


You know, JCE is probably a good case-study of the kind of mind that could have been swayed by a more populist leftist leader. He clearly trolls a lot, and doesn't seem to understand the difference between social liberalism (i.e. Democrats) and actual socialists, but I hazard a guess that he (and many with his mindset) would be open to more socialist policies if they were properly explained to him. Unfortunately, that sort of discussion will never happen with the current Democratic Party, who is too addicted to corporate lobbyist and Wall Street money to actually engage their constituents with any meaningful critique on our current form of capitalism and how it corrupts our representative democracy.

Oh well.

3/6/2017 7:07:10 PM

Lol, "Obama subsidies based on income are bad but check out these income based subsidies"



Going to be amazing when whatever gets based is basically ACA with the tweaks people have been asking for.

3/6/2017 8:11:18 PM

anyone who didnt realize repeal and replace really meant patch it up hasnt been paying attention

3/6/2017 8:50:40 PM

Quote :

"But have you checked out that CA secession thread lately?"

You mean the one that petered out after 5-6 pages of solid discussion and now is mostly just JCE trolling?

Yeah, that's really a fine example of an "echo-chamber" isn't it? Everyone agreeing with my original premise since page one.

3/6/2017 9:36:02 PM

Quote :

"You know, JCE is probably a good case-study of the kind of mind that could have been swayed by a more populist leftist leader. He clearly trolls a lot, and doesn't seem to understand the difference between social liberalism (i.e. Democrats) and actual socialists, but I hazard a guess that he (and many with his mindset) would be open to more socialist policies if they were properly explained to him. Unfortunately, that sort of discussion will never happen with the current Democratic Party, who is too addicted to corporate lobbyist and Wall Street money to actually engage their constituents with any meaningful critique on our current form of capitalism and how it corrupts our representative democracy."

I think you are confusing socialism/classical liberalism/the current DNC... they are all separate.

I'm probably a classical liberal on many issues, my point is the DNC has regressed to a point where classical liberals and libertarians have more in common with conservatives than leftists.

[Edited on March 6, 2017 at 11:12 PM. Reason : .]

3/6/2017 10:57:15 PM