I mean if that was true they wouldn't have had to go through such extraordinary lengths to run a 20 vs 1 primary but go ahead, talk your shit now while you still can.

I'll talk mine in November.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 1:58 AM. Reason : you saw the polls 2 weeks ago]

3/11/2020 1:57:06 AM

Nah, you won’t. Even Trump is terrified of Biden, which is why he started the Hunter Burisma nonsense, all while managing to get himself impeached. All Trump had to do to win was to get as many people as possible to hate Hillary. Wasn’t that difficult considering how easily Bernie did it too. Hilariously enough, neither of them could manage to beat her unlikeable ass in a popularity contest.

It’s ok to be wrong. Just sayin’



[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 2:04 AM. Reason : .]

3/11/2020 2:00:12 AM

We were wrong about a lot of things like the power of propaganda, and the idea that progressives would coalesce or at the very lease not kneecap the movement.

3/11/2020 2:04:29 AM

Basically everything, yeah...

3/11/2020 2:05:30 AM

Well our options were to risk being wrong or to realize that the country is fucked and will always be fucked so I don't understand how you can blame us. People like you were always going to win. Your worst case scenario was losing some of your advantage over the poor under Bernie or not being able to pretend you live in a virtuous system under Trump.

3/11/2020 2:12:30 AM

I honestly don’t care if bernie bros re-elect trump. I don’t want to vote for Biden either. I didn’t vote in TX primary because Bernie and Biden were such crappy choices.

3/11/2020 2:52:12 AM

Then stop posting because you’re a huge part of the problem doing jack shit to solve it.

3/11/2020 3:23:18 AM

Quote :

"voted for Bernie but Biden has a significant advantage over Bernie in literally every battleground state, even places that were barely battlegrounds in 2016 like NC, Florida, and Ohio."

No polling supports this statement

3/11/2020 7:02:51 AM

any viable scenario for sanders at this point?

3/11/2020 7:42:48 AM

Biden has a stroke?

3/11/2020 8:01:03 AM

Even if Biden died, someone else would get back into the race and win at the convention. Stopping Bernie was always the goal.

3/11/2020 10:52:16 AM

He didn't help himself. This all ain't about a conspiracy like 2016.

Reposting for this page: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/bernies-tragic-misreading-of-16-has-finally-been-dispelled.html

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

3/11/2020 11:16:11 AM

Quote :

"He's been a conservative Dem his entire career, so I have a very hard time believing he's to the left of Obama all of a sudden"

For the several variations of this comment, Biden's current platform for presidency is to the left on what Obama ran and certainly of what Obama delivered.

3/11/2020 11:44:33 AM

If you think a historically conservative candidate is going to suddenly run to the left AFTER securing the primary nomination and heading into the general, then you don't understand politics.

Just look at any poll that shows voting breakdown demographics by age. The Democratic Party has just flipped a giant middle finger to anyone under the age of 40 and first time voters. If you think those same voters are going to suddenly show up in November to support Biden then you are out of your mind. Whether or not the DNC has irreparably damaged the party remains to be seen, but it doesn't look good.

Instead of talking about Medicare for all, free college education, or minimum wages, we're going to hear about Russia and Ukraine, and be asked to decide which candidates son sucks harder. This will turn off so many voters, and this helps the incumbent in November.

3/11/2020 11:52:23 AM

bernie is killing it with young people, who turned out in similar numbers to obama in 2008, who won the general in large part because of young voters

the nymag conclusions are premature (we can only just barely start investigating motivations to primary voters), but their conclusion that hillary just wasn't that popular is true but also not a newly discovered truth

3/11/2020 12:02:50 PM

I only saw the headline, but Chait is a doofus (at least on election punditry) . You can discount his stuff and wait for analysis by a better source imo.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 12:20 PM. Reason : E]

3/11/2020 12:18:46 PM

Quote :

"bernie is killing it with young people, who turned out in similar numbers to obama in 2008, who won the general in large part because of young voters"

Apparently not killing it enough to get them to put their Xbox controllers and vape pens down and vote, except what, Iowa?

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 1:14 PM. Reason : #offmahlawn]

3/11/2020 1:13:42 PM

Quote :

"their conclusion that hillary just wasn't that popular is true but also not a newly discovered truth"

That's not the conclusion of the article. It's a backdrop for Bernie analysis.

3/11/2020 1:14:38 PM

Hearing Clyburn and James Carville (who is a bayou lizard-man who has become unraveled at the thought of a progressive insurgency) both use the same talking point phrase of "shut it down" in reference to the primary leads me to believe that we won't even get a debate between Sanders and Biden, which is badly needed.

Oh man, I'm just imagining the DNC using the corona virus scare as some sort of disaster capitalist method of calling off the game at halftime. Not looking good.

3/11/2020 1:18:44 PM

Quote :

"Apparently not killing it enough to get them to put their Xbox controllers and vape pens down and vote, except what, Iowa?"

obama wasn't killing it enough to get them to put their xbox controllers and vape pens down and vote

also the young people bernie is winning is like <50, not just vaping teens

3/11/2020 1:19:03 PM

Re young people
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/voting-college-suppression.html

3/11/2020 1:23:54 PM

Even without the massive voter suppression, I'm not even sure Bernie would have gotten the lead. The conspiracy was well-planned out this time instead of being done on the fly like in 2016. They redesigned the entire process specifically to prevent Bernie, drafted every man woman and child to run, collaborated with the media, and consolidated precincts in areas rich with bernie's demographics.

Propaganda beats grassroots everytime.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 1:25 PM. Reason : the only way forward is continuing the movement OUTSIDE of the democratic party]

3/11/2020 1:24:34 PM

horosho is going to work himself into a trump vote

3/11/2020 1:30:30 PM

Disparage the youth at your own peril. If they become disillusioned with the ability of electoral politics as a vehicle to meaningfully change their world, they'll eventually come to the conclusion that change can only occur outside of the electoral arena. And there's no guarantee that disillusioned youth will break to the left. Many of them will break to the right and embrace nationalism and jingoism, so perhaps dunking on them for gaming and vaping isn't a wise strategy. Low youth turnout in a primary is a crisis to be worried about.

3/11/2020 1:33:55 PM

So now we're making excuses for Sanders not being able to deliver on his strategy/promise to greatly expand turnout??

3/11/2020 1:55:54 PM

Depends...will you blame those same people when they absolutely won't show up I November?

Funny how it's his fault in the primary, and it will be their fault in the general.

3/11/2020 1:59:12 PM

we don't know that he wasn't delivering

3/11/2020 1:59:38 PM

The youth aren't showing up to support Democrats.


That's a party wide problem, not an individual candidates problem. Alarm bells should be ringing, but instead Biden supporters are taking an ill advised victory lap.

3/11/2020 2:01:29 PM

I get the impression that many of the Bernie advocates here are so deeply rooted in their position and surrounded by the movement that they believe every new revelation related to the campaign or Bernie's lack of momentum is conspiratorial and that the DNC may have irreplaceably damaged the party.

For the sake of Occam's razor, indulge me for a moment in the following theory.

Young people tend to be strong advocates for radical change, no matter the era (e.g. boomer hippies of the 60's) and push for it while they are young but as they age they tend to gravitate toward the center more. One could take from this that the passionate policies of a youth driven movement aren't so much the sign of changing times as it is a reflection of what it is like to be young. Many of the young Bernie supporters out there now will probably be voting centrist democrat or, shit, maybe even republican as they get older. That's just how things go.

To even posit that the DNC has given a middle finger to the youth and may have irreparably damaged the party is factless. The youth didn't show up. That's on them and they gave the fingers to their own policies or maybe are passionate when it is cool to be but not committed enough for the effort.

The DNC also can't irreparably damage the party by having moved a few ticks left of Center from where they have been in previous years. Each candidate up there had a platform to the left of Obama. Pete's was solidly left, but Bernie fans on here referred to him as practically a republican. The only way the party would be damaged is if there are people out there holding a grudge and, like children, refuse to participate because they didn't get their way (i.e. an agenda representative of the mainstream left/labour European parties).

As for Biden and me not understanding politics if I think a tiger changes its stripes- that's what politicians do all the time. They sway with the tide. The message out there was that Obama wasn't left enough and that Bernie and Warren both picked up steam because they were left of where the party traditionally had been. That's why everyone else on that stage was left on Obama. If Biden even wants to assume he can be more than a one term president, then he is going to play that game just as he was conservative where he needed to be.

3/11/2020 2:07:55 PM

The shift to the center that you noticed more closely follows financial upward mobility. It's not magically divined from gained wisdom with age. Upward mobility has been declining, and the people who tack to the right with age vote because they have the means and time to dedicate to electoral politics. The ones who age without upward mobility don't disappear, they just stop voting because they can't afford to, hence the embarrassing low voter participation in this country.

Your theory of generational politics is dogshit and it's been debunked a.million times.

3/11/2020 2:15:46 PM

Anecdotally, I'm just not seeing the same Bernie fervor in 2020 that I saw among young people in 2016-- at least at work. Four years ago, vocal Bernie supporter students were pretty common and made it obvious with all the stickers/buttons/hats/etc, but this year? I think I've seen maybe one Bernie sticker on a laptop, let alone anyone wearing Bernie t-shirts. And I teach in the Bay Area where he had apparently much wider support than Biden if you look at the election results. Then again, I'm not seeing any of that for Biden either. Maybe my students just don't give a shit about politics in 2020?

3/11/2020 2:35:38 PM

Quote :

"The DNC also can't irreparably damage the party by having moved a few ticks left of Center from where they have been in previous years"

Hmmm...why do you think the party moved slightly to the left? It's almost like the threat of losing institutional power to an insurgent campaign forced their hand to move, as you said, "a few ticks to the left." They did not voluntarily move to the left because of the inevitable ebb of time demanded it.

I think your theory of change is also dogshit

3/11/2020 2:37:47 PM

Quote :

"we don't know that he wasn't delivering"

Oh so we're playing verb tense games now?

He hasn't. Feel free to argue otherwise.

3/11/2020 2:38:16 PM

Its a similar rate to Obama, which was higher than ither years, who won in part because of strong youth turnout

3/11/2020 3:01:34 PM

Quote :

"I think your theory of change is also dogshit"

Time will tell. 2016 caught a lot of people by surprise, so maybe 2020 will, too. Or maybe not. It's almost as if voters behave irrationally, and predictably so...

3/11/2020 3:10:53 PM

^^ your usage of the word "similar" is very telling, and the numbers clearly aren't enough, regardless of Obama's numbers.

3/11/2020 3:12:47 PM

The polls telling you young people aren't showing up are the same exit polls you ignored because they were telling you Bernie was winning.

Also we have been very critical of the Bernie campaign. Its far from perfect. The most common criticisms have been on the lack of attacks and TV advertising. He went on CNN and called Joe biden his friend. He asked people to ignore hillary's emails. If you refuse to attack while constantly being attacked, its only a matter of time before the opponents punches catch up with you.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM. Reason : bernie is too good of a person to win an actual fight]

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:16 PM. Reason : a lot of people stayed home because bernie didn't call out the cheating. ]

3/11/2020 3:13:05 PM

Not reading that either

3/11/2020 3:15:53 PM

Similar is within 1 or 2%

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:19 PM. Reason : And the point about exit polls not being perfect is why i said "similar" insteaf of exact amount ]

3/11/2020 3:18:43 PM

I don't think that voter suppression is totally to blame for low youth voter turnout, but I would be interested in seeing how much overlap there might be between the two.

Voter suppression doesn't appear to have lowered African American voter turnout, has it?

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2020 3:24:55 PM

Seniors don't have shit else to do on a tuesday but wait around and vote. Only the most privileged young people actually have 4 hours available or the flexibility to carve out extra time on a weekday. Its mathamatically impossible for most working class young folks to put 4 hours into something. They already have deficits in their time budget.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:28 PM. Reason : think about the kind of jobs where you can just leave for the afternoon]

3/11/2020 3:27:13 PM

Quote :

"Or maybe not. It's almost as if voters behave irrationally, and predictably so..."

Is this supposed to be provocative or insightful? What meaningful assessment is this supposed to provide? Is there any analysis behind this sentiment?

Because if your conclusion boils down to, "voters be cray," then there is literally no reason for politics. Everything is reduced to pure chance, and beyond our collective reach.

3/11/2020 3:28:39 PM

It's clearly a problem, that Sanders has addressed. Comparing to Obama's numbers are meaningless.

Quote :

"“Have we been as successful as I would hope in bringing young people in?” Sanders remarked at a news conference in Burlington, Vt., after his disappointing Super Tuesday performance. “And the answer is no, we’re making some progress.” “It is not easy,” he added about mobilizing young voters. He later told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow appeals to young voters would resonate more strongly in the general election. “To his credit, and I wish we could do better, [Joe Biden] is doing very, very well with people 65 or older. We're not. We're doing phenomenally well with people 30 or under. Now, which group of people is there more potential to grow the base, to bring people in?”"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/powerup/2020/03/05/powerup-young-voters-are-turning-out-in-lower-numbers-than-bernie-sanders-expected/5e6018d6602ff10d49ac2c83/

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:32 PM. Reason : Obama had a yuge coalition. Sanders' srategy depended on the youth turning out in >> Obama numbers.]

3/11/2020 3:29:56 PM

Quote :

" Voter suppression doesn't appear to have lowered African American voter turnout, has it?"

Yes it has. Wait times in black communities were dispassionately longer than wealthy white communities.

3/11/2020 3:30:46 PM

Quote :

"Is this supposed to be provocative or insightful? What meaningful assessment is this supposed to provide? Is there any analysis behind this sentiment? Because if your conclusion boils down to, "voters be cray," then there is literally no reason for politics. Everything is reduced to pure chance, and beyond our collective reach."

It was supposed to point out the stupidity of you dismissing unprovable theories, while peddling your own unprovable theories.

Here's mine:

Quote :

" Even Trump is terrified of Biden, which is why he started the Hunter Burisma nonsense, all while managing to get himself impeached. All Trump had to do to win was to get as many people as possible to hate Hillary. Wasn’t that difficult considering how easily Bernie did it too. Hilariously enough, neither of them could manage to beat her unlikeable ass in a popularity contest. "

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2020 3:31:41 PM

Two more things.

1. I'm seeing a lot of angry Bernie fans on my FB saying they'll never support a candidate who wants to repeal the second amendment. Kinda glad these people aren't going to be the ones the left has to cater to to fix our horrid gun violence problem in America. We may be dodging a big bullet, after all...

2. There's a meme going around that explains why black voters are so enthusiastic about Biden. The claim is that because Biden quietly played second fiddle to Obama for eight years, without ever doing anything to undermine his credibility, nor get in his way, means that he has the black community's back and they trust him. I hadn't ever thought of it, but I' not black, if that's what you're referring to...

3/11/2020 3:41:40 PM

Point 1: You observing radicalization. They are regrettably observing that using electoral politics as a vehicle for change is not possible. Again, I'm warning you to not disparage disaffected youth yearning for radical change and dismissing their concerns. You did not dodge a bullet, you dodged the ballot (oblique Malcom X reference so that I don't have to spell this out).

3/11/2020 3:53:50 PM

I SHARE their concerns, which is why I was a Warren supporter. I voted by mail weeks before it would matter, and yet here we are, you blaming me for your candidate's failure to have me switch teams.

3/11/2020 3:58:17 PM

I wish I hadn't spent the time reading UJW's friends facebook comments.

[Edited on March 11, 2020 at 4:01 PM. Reason : just leave that stuff there ]

3/11/2020 4:01:24 PM

I never claimed staunch Bernie (nor Biden) supporters were the brightest, or that they made the best friends.

3/11/2020 4:02:46 PM