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 Message Boards » » The soldiers are NOT heroes Page [1] 2, Next  
tulsigabbard
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They are not evil either. They are victims of the system. They are admirable and brave for signing up, but are certainly not heroes. They aren't saving anyone from anything. Maybe back in WW2 but how many WW2 vets are actually left? Its time to start calling this out and stop the glorification of our generation-killing military-industrial complex.

Many people know about this and play along because they are afraid of being cast out by society for "disrespecting our soldiers" but in reality, you are disrespecting them by not acknowledging the fact that they are the biggest victims of the atrocities they take part in. Think about the flag protestors. No one wants that.

The military strips these people of humanity and trains them to be killers. Military culture emphasises patriarchy, group mentality, racism, homophobia, and rape culture. Weakness makes you a fag, queer, or pussy. The enemy are seen as less than human. Sandniggers, towelheads, savages, etc.

If you are a veteran, at best you have been forced to indiscriminately kill brown people who had no relation to the US and at worst have taken part in the free for all of mass murder, rape, and torture that so many veterans have self-reported.

https://www.ivaw.org/why-we-are-against-wars#FAQ14

You aren't patriotic for glorifying this corporate military system. In fact, you are damaging the country.

4/15/2017 5:12:18 PM

beatsunc
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i like this new guy

4/15/2017 5:20:07 PM

bbehe
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Neat

4/15/2017 5:43:00 PM

dtownral
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JCE2011 decided to try a different angle

4/15/2017 7:07:00 PM

eleusis
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Do you think America's agenda during WW2 wasn't to fuel the outright destruction of Europe, or do you view that agenda as admirable?

4/15/2017 9:38:28 PM

bdmazur
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The best way to respect our troops is to not send them to places where they'll die.

4/16/2017 3:16:08 AM

wizzkidd
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I find this super ironic.

4/16/2017 10:42:20 AM

theDuke866
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4/16/2017 11:15:32 AM

tulsigabbard
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I was talking about this today and came up with a great analogy. I see them like sex workers.

-It's a dirty, dangerous job as old as civilization
-Somebody's gotta do it
-There would probably be a lot more violence without it
-Them doing it voluntarily means no one has to do it involuntarily
-Vulnerable, desperate individual often end up doing it
-Once you get out, you could be traumatised for life
-Rape is common in the industry
-They can't be blamed for staying in it because the system exploits them

FYI, I don't think we should treat soldiers like we treat sex workers, but maybe we should start treating sex workers the way we treat soldiers

Let them board the plane first they've been fucking people over for our freedom!

5/11/2017 7:38:22 PM

JCE2011
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So you acknowledge it is a dangerous and necessary job, yet insult it.

That is pretty much a microcosm of the mental disorder all SJWs have... insult the very things that allow you to be a worthless parasite in the most privileged civilization ever.

KYS

5/11/2017 9:26:45 PM

tulsigabbard
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Wheres the insult? I clearly said it was admirable and they weren't evil in the OP. I feel sorry for them. I'm really just saying I don't see why we consider them heroes.

Do you consider sex workers heroes?
Are garbage men heroes?
Are the men who unclog sewage drains, heroes?

The last two jobs on that list necessarily keep us safe everyday. Soldiers not necessarily.

5/11/2017 11:16:47 PM

JCE2011
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You're comparing soldiers to vulnerable prostitutes, garbage men and victims, and suggesting rape is "common" within the ranks. That is insulting.

Also I don't think America considers every soldier a "hero". The only times you see soldiers "glorified" is typically when they receive a medal or return home wounded... I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that. So in general America respects our soldiers, because we all have a certain common sense understanding of how the world works, one that a Marxist ideologue, too busy attacking western civilization, clearly has no time for... eh comrade?

5/12/2017 9:57:40 AM

tulsigabbard
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Quote :
"suggesting rape is "common" within the ranks. That is insulting."

I'm not suggesting it, I'm just pointing out facts.. 25% of women in the military are raped and 80% are sexually harassed. The numbers are also really high for men. It's clearly a problem and I want to help them because I care about soldiers. I would love to hear more about your value system because caring about people being raped should not come off as "insulting". Why do you want to ignore crimes being committed against your "heroes"?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-the-military-has-a-rape-problem/
Quote :
"The only times you see soldiers "glorified" is typically when they receive a medal or return home wounded... I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that"

What about when a garbage man is wounded on the job? Its one of the most dangerous jobs with a fatality rate of 41.2 per 100,000. I see soldiers praised all the time. They get to board the flight early, they get extra discounts all over the place and they get special tributes at sporting events. Why not extend this appreciation to other important professions?
Quote :
" So in general America respects our soldiers, because we all have a certain common sense understanding of how the world works"

Do we though? Why do you see the comparison of a garbage man an insult? If we took them away, a lot of people would get sick and die from poor sanitation. Why don't you appreciate the people who are keeping you safe everyday?

Actually, taking away the military would free up money that could go a lot further in improving the quality of life than what it is currently doing to lower the price of international trade.

If you are appalled by this:

and this



but not this


you might need to re-evaluate your value system

5/12/2017 11:15:29 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"I'm not suggesting it, I'm just pointing out facts.. 25% of women in the military are raped"


Next time you feel the need to lead a post with a lie this yuge just stop.

5/12/2017 11:43:11 AM

NyM410
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JCE arguing with Earl is everything I thought it would be.

5/12/2017 12:33:32 PM

JCE2011
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Am I getting trolled?

5/12/2017 3:45:26 PM

dtownral
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algorithms can't be trolled

5/12/2017 4:19:52 PM

0EPII1
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I mean, we all know the US armed forces have a rape and sexual assault problem on multiple levels*, but 25% being raped is kinda impossible.

*See thread below I made some years ago, and gave extensive evidence, stats, and stories. But, the 3 ex-AF users who post here regularly, well only 2 do now, all went rowing down THE NILE several times in the thread:

message_topic.aspx?topic=624001

That reminds me as I skimmed the thread, where are RedGuard, McDanger, and Maverick?

5/12/2017 8:41:53 PM

tulsigabbard
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*Sexually assaulted not raped

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 8:51 PM. Reason : its almost as if some people are just here for semantics]

5/12/2017 8:48:52 PM

0EPII1
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hey, i am with you there.

did you see my thread?

5/12/2017 9:04:02 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"its almost as if some people are just here for semantics"


There's a fucking Grand Canyon between rape and sexual assault Earl.

5/13/2017 1:25:52 AM

beatsunc
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I do feel like our military gets poor peoples arms/legs blown off for global economic reasons that have nothing to do with my freedom but get out of here with the sex worker crap.

5/13/2017 4:56:30 AM

tulsigabbard
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Quote :
"There's a fucking Grand Canyon between rape and sexual assault Earl."

In some states, yes. But in others rape is legally sexual assault. So yeah...semantics.
Quote :
"get out of here with the sex worker crap."

Why? I'd love to hear an explanation. I assume the absence of an explanation is because everyone wants to avoid typing out their circular, contradictive logic.


[Edited on May 14, 2017 at 10:49 PM. Reason : points]

5/14/2017 10:46:50 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"So yeah...semantics"


The difference between an ass smack and forcible penetration is not semantics, but at least you can admit you were wrong, kind of.

5/14/2017 11:45:24 PM

tulsigabbard
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Its still indicative of rape culture. You knew that anyway. You knew the mistake that was made but instead of correcting it, you chose to drag this out because you have no interest in staying on topic. Its the type of thing that only happens on the internet.

5/19/2017 9:03:42 PM

wizzkidd
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Quote :
"-Somebody's gotta do it
-There would probably be a lot more violence without it
-Them doing it voluntarily means no one has to do it involuntarily"


I disagree that those three apply to sex work. I'm not sure that there would be any more (or less) violence or sexual assault if we magically got rid of prostitution. "them doing it voluntarily means no one else has to do it involuntarily" CERTAINLY doesn't apply to sex traffic as may people are involuntarily forced into the industry.

Congrats on hooking JCE though! BUZZINGA!

Re rape culture: I can't find a good source via the google machine, but has anyone compared the sexual assault statistics in the military to the same demographics (age, gender, race, median income, education, etc) in the rest of American citizenship? It seems like that would be a telling piece of evidence. IE: Is it really Military culture that advances or turns a blind eye to sexual assault or is it just a product of the people we pull into the military?

[Edited on May 21, 2017 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2017 4:32:51 PM

synapse
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Quote :
" You knew the mistake that was made but instead of correcting it"


Yeah it's much more fun to call you out on the outrageous lie and let you correct it on your own.

I do what I want.

5/21/2017 4:50:07 PM

adultswim
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Was it an outrageous lie? Military rape statistics are kind of all over the place.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16845766

Quote :
"Five hundred forty women completed the interview, 28% of whom reported being raped during military service. Nineteen percent reported a single rape, 5% reported repeated rape (range 2-36), and 5% reported gang rape."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

Quote :
"15% of female veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have visited a Veterans Affairs (VA) facility have screened positive for military sexual trauma."


[Edited on May 21, 2017 at 5:48 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2017 5:44:24 PM

JCE2011
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The way rape has been politicized by the left is so fucking stupid.

Leftists exaggerate the shit out of "rape culture" only when its a white frat boy clapping cheeks with a drunk slut, to the point of fabricating it (see anecdote: Rolling Stone "A rape on campus").

Yet they completely ignore (even cover up for) rape by middle-eastern migrants, who literally come from an actual "rape culture".

Meanwhile in US prisons, they are playing butthole-bingo in the showers but nobody benefits politically from prison rape I guess?

Also lol @ Leftists shitting themselves when the Orange Man says some illegal immigrants are rapists... google "Coyotes" and see the reported rape statistics there... but I guess if it isn't a white frat boy the left doesn't care about it.

5/21/2017 7:41:36 PM

synapse
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^^ pretty small sample size there, and it goes back to Vietnam. First I've seen with a number that high...got any more with a similar result for the modern military?

[Edited on May 21, 2017 at 8:33 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2017 8:32:33 PM

afripino
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^^I googled "Coyote rape"...

holy shit man...you're into some weird stuff.

5/22/2017 1:32:44 PM

wizzkidd
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4^ I'll totally believe the 15% number from OIF/OEF (but I question using wikipedia as your source for a researched statistic... #TWW)

I found some good data published in 2007 that says that 13.5 % Women on college campuses are victims of sexual assault of some sort. That seems like it is a similar age range, but probably not a good comparison of ethnic or economic demographics

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=243011

Here's an article published in 2004 (so generally during the same time period) that says ~22% of American women report having been sexually assaulted as an adult. So what that tells me is that it doesn't seem to be a military problem per se. It's an AMERICAN problem, if not a problem with a much larger scope than that. (Does Singapore have this problem? Prostitution not withstanding)

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:JOTS.0000029263.11104.23

5/22/2017 9:26:43 PM

tulsigabbard
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You make great points but I think the key here is that they are being assaulted on the job whereas most women are being assaulted in the private lives. To compare apples to apples, you would have to look at workplace sexual assault for a similar demographic. That would almost certainly be substantially higher for the military.

5/22/2017 10:31:44 PM

synapse
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Quote :
" the key here is that they are being assaulted on the job whereas most women"


Where's the data to support that claim?

5/22/2017 10:42:45 PM

wizzkidd
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^^I disagree, I think the VAST majority of sexual assaults in the military happen off duty. I'll accept your premise that the assailant and the victim tend to be coworkers more often in the military than in civilian life, but that distinction is because of the tendency for military people to have frequent off-duty contact with their coworkers, more so that civilians. However, couple that with the fact that most civilian victims know and have had prior contact with their assailant and the military distinction again becomes less relevant.

[Edited on May 22, 2017 at 10:47 PM. Reason : Synapse got in before me]

5/22/2017 10:46:58 PM

tulsigabbard
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I went back to look up where I heard the numbers from and it turns out I was more correct than I thought in my original statements. The number is more like 30% of military women are sexually assaulted. The military is one of those places that classifies rape as sexual assault and 43% of sexual assaults against women in the military involve penetration. So theres that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGPWp-4kvQ

The rapes are underreported by the military because victims face retribution in the military that civilians don't always face. Also, the purps are less likely to get real punishments like they would as civilians so there isn't much deterrent to raping. Its the backend through the VA where we get the real numbers on mass victimization. Also the suicides....

Most of what I learned was inspired by this movie "invisible war" from like 4 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za8cY_zd9Qw
Thats a great 5 minute ABC segment on it.

5/23/2017 1:11:24 AM

tulsigabbard
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/05/us/orlando-shooting.html
The killer is white and got his training/trauma in the Army so its not a big story

If he was muslim and got his training in the M.E. , there would be wall to wall coverage, presidential tweets, national dialogue on how to prevent the next one, celebrities rallying with a benefit concert, tribute to all of the victims, and a facebook banner.

6/5/2017 4:18:41 PM

Bullet
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That's just an anecdote. Unlike the attacks in England. See the difference?

6/5/2017 4:40:11 PM

tulsigabbard
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I don't see the difference. Both are anecdotes.

6/5/2017 4:54:08 PM

JCE2011
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The difference is the left uses these anecdotes to assault the 2nd amendment rights of US Citizens, whereas the right uses anecdotes of terrorists to put restrictions on NON-US Citizens.

You know, because the marxist leftists are all about hating on America's institutions... in this case the military.

6/5/2017 5:59:40 PM

afripino
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whereas the right uses anecdotes of terrorists to put restrictions on NON-US Citizens. pass the fucking patriot act
whereas the right uses anecdotes of terrorists to put restrictions on NON-US Citizens. increase military spending
whereas the right uses anecdotes of terrorists to put restrictions on NON-US Citizens. build a fucking wall

it's not all that different. you're just on the other team, yo.

also, not all soldiers are heroes. just as not all heroes are soldiers.

[Edited on June 6, 2017 at 9:13 AM. Reason : ]

6/6/2017 9:08:43 AM

NyM410
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Quote :
"The difference is the left uses these anecdotes to assault the 2nd amendment rights of US Citizens"


This hasnt happened though. Even in times when Dems held every part of government.

[Edited on June 6, 2017 at 9:40 AM. Reason : And, I for one, would be against any assault on 2A -- though not EVERY reg is that]

6/6/2017 9:39:05 AM

afripino
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JCE still thinks Obama is gonna take his guns

6/6/2017 10:11:00 AM

ssclark
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to be completely fair, someone probably should. Dude is skirtin' the edge

6/6/2017 10:35:04 AM

JCE2011
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Quote :
"it's not all that different. you're just on the other team, yo."


The concept of cherry picking a statistically rare event and giving it a disproportionate amount of media coverage to further a political agenda is bullshit for either team. And yes, both teams do it.

The difference is in the agendas. The left's new agenda is to divide and conquer, convincing minorities they are victims and dividing Americans along race/sex with identity politic bullshit. That is a pretty despicable agenda. Whereas the right's agenda is primarily to just stop the left.

6/6/2017 12:41:43 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"to be completely fair, someone probably should. Dude is skirtin' the edge

"

knives too, JCE is basically Jeremy Christian

6/6/2017 12:51:48 PM

JCE2011
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I love how triggered you hacks get when your narratives get called out

6/6/2017 1:07:51 PM

dtownral
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Okay JJC

6/6/2017 1:11:36 PM

afripino
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Quote :
"Whereas the right's agenda is primarily to just stop the left."


LOL. What a cheerleader.

6/6/2017 1:23:29 PM

HCH
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Not Heroes.

6/6/2017 2:16:21 PM

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