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 Message Boards » » World War 3 - who will be on which side? Page 1 2 3 4 [5], Prev  
The Coz
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0EPII1 lives over there somewhere.

I read the BBC World News daily. There's quite a bit more reporting on China's hijinks in Hong Kong and elsewhere than you get in the US press. I don't claim to be an authority, but I don't get why this guy (daaave) is such a China apologist (except for trolling).

4/21/2021 5:38:20 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"(I'm not taking a side here, but just because you've visited a place doesn't mean you know more about that place than someone who hasn't visited)"


He's just posting CCP talking points and acting like he has some intimate knowledge of the culture when it's clear he has no idea what he's talking about. Anecdotally, having visited parts of East/SE Asia myself, one's ability to use the internet like WE normally can, let alone social media, is definitely not like the US or Europe where it's a relative free-for-all and your smart phone is basically the same thing as a laptop/pc/computer.

Is China/HK a complete police state where the 'thought police' are going to get you? Well, of course not. But you can't just browse/post the same way that you can here and it's noticeable from pretty much the moment you step off the plane and start using your smartphone.


[Edited on April 21, 2021 at 5:41 PM. Reason : I'm not calling myself an expert on China/HK/Taiwain; I'm just saying he's full of shit]

4/21/2021 5:38:32 PM

rwoody
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He's also posting published academic papers

4/21/2021 5:45:44 PM

UJustWait84
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^Ones that are flawed for the very reasons the Coz pointed out.

Plenty of American academic studies are flawed/debunked btw, and there's been a huge backlash against the peer review process in general because so much of it has to do with money/politics and not actual facts/research.

But hey, don't take my word for it, take his instead.

FWIW I consider myself to be fairly neutral on China and their government/policies, and that comes from having visited and interacted with people who have opposing views. I worry a lot more about Russia, but I also married someone born in the former USSR, so clearly I have my own biases.

But it's 100% bs that people in China/HK can openly criticize their government like the way we can in the US.

[Edited on April 21, 2021 at 5:52 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2021 5:50:46 PM

rwoody
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"your data is bad for my opinion based reasons, therefore my zero data is better"

4/21/2021 6:42:06 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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Now you're getting it!

But I can also Google some hundred-page research papers on Chinese censorship if it will impress you.

4/21/2021 7:29:54 PM

rwoody
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I got no dog in the fight I'm feuding with UJW acting like visiting a county is some Trump card, at least Dave is attempting to put forth more than opinion

4/21/2021 7:58:10 PM

TreeTwista10
Laugh, Think, Cry
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if only there were someone who still posts on this site that was born and raised in China

4/21/2021 8:28:02 PM

UJustWait84
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^^ I just asked a very simple question (one which he refused to answer, because it would diminish his ethos) because he clearly sounds ignorant about what life is actually like in China/HK/Taiwan. I'm hardly alone in calling out the sheer stupidity of his claim that people can openly criticize the Chinese government, and yet YOUR argument is... what again?

Oh wait. You don't actually have an argument/position.

[Edited on April 21, 2021 at 8:36 PM. Reason : it's cute that you wanna 'feud', but at least make it about something more interesting]

4/21/2021 8:35:48 PM

The Coz
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^^If only. . .

4/21/2021 9:56:27 PM

UJustWait84
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I'm sure shoot is wayyyy too busy openly criticizing the Chinese government and getting away with it to bother to respond to this very important thread.

4/21/2021 10:37:16 PM

UJustWait84
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hey daave, I'd love to hear your take on Belarus and Myanmar and their recent treatment of journalists. Feel free to copy/pasta from your "party's" website/platform so it'll be faster for everyone.

5/24/2021 5:11:18 PM

daaave
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don't know anything about myanmar. the belarus guy is a far-right western asset. worked for radio free europe and has close ties with neo-nazis in ukraine.

https://covertactionmagazine.com/2020/09/13/covert-action-props-up-u-s-polish-axis-against-belarus-a-deep-dive-into-far-right-regime-change-activists-and-their-backers/

5/29/2021 11:12:28 AM

UJustWait84
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That article is laughable and absolutely embarrassing, even for you. You think the Belarusian, pro-democracy/independence movement/uprising against an absolutely rigged election is a... Neo-Nazi movement...supported by the US government? Are you fucking serious? Belarus is essentially the USSR and Lukashenko is Putin's bitch. Can you even point to Belarus on a map? Dead serious question.

I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually believe it, or the fact that you posted it thinking it demonstrated even a perfunctory attempt at doing cursory "research" about a topic you clearly know fuck-all about. You should have just said the same thing about Myanmar: "I don't know"

[Edited on May 31, 2021 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/31/2021 4:59:17 PM

daaave
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are you okay?

5/31/2021 6:40:30 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Which regional power always labels anything pro-western as neo-nazis, fascists, and banderites?

Five seconds on google tells you its the same power thats behind Covert Action Magazine.

6/1/2021 10:49:21 AM

daaave
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The west has been funding and supporting far-right nationalists for 100 years. Anti-western media is able to take advantage of this because it's the truth.

Protasevich has a documented history of draping himself in far-right symbols, embedding himself with neo-Nazis, and working in CIA cutouts. And within the context of US history, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that we would support someone like him.

And to be clear, I'm only talking about Protasevich (the arrested journalist) because that's what ujustwait asked about originally. There are legitimate and illegitimate aspects of the Belarusian conflict, as is usually the case when western intelligence is involved.

[Edited on June 1, 2021 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2021 11:15:48 AM

UJustWait84
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^Way to prove my point about senselessly posting propaganda for me. Seriously, gg.

The fact that you think the original Belarusian flag = Neo Nazi symbols to you is pathetically sad. You do realize that Belarus lost 25% of its population during WWII and close to 90% of it's Jewish population, right?

I'm not even going to waste my time asking to see you parse together a semi-coherent summary of the "illegitimate" aspects of the "conflict"; you're far too ignorant/lazy/brainwashed to actually engage in any meaningful attempts at critical thought and I'd rather just disengage. I mean this with utmost sincerity: I take pity on your soul.

6/1/2021 2:05:08 PM

daaave
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okay, have a good one

6/1/2021 3:18:21 PM

thegoodlife3
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http://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1400510831603949577

Quote :
" Really uncomfortable to watch this. A battered Roman Protasevich appears on Belarusian state TV to praise autocrat Aleksandr Lukashenko, 10 days after the dissident blogger was taken off the Ryanair flight that was forced to land in Minsk. A volte-face that’s very hard to believe https://t.co/escJriEtfX"

6/3/2021 2:40:53 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"This is a calculated message to the Belarusian public: We told you so. Those who urge you to take to the streets are funded by shadowy Western forces hellbent on bringing about our country’s collapse. Don’t trust them."


Nah. He was clearly a Neo Nazi who deserved to be beaten/tortured and the world will be a better place once Belarus executes him.

6/3/2021 4:13:39 PM

Bullet
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6/3/2021 4:26:28 PM

UJustWait84
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Deliberate hyperbole isn't quite the same thing, but point well taken!!

6/3/2021 4:30:16 PM

daaave
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sorry i don't have much sympathy for a guy who fought in a ukrainian neo-nazi battalion and works for a CIA cutout. i know centrists are willing to overlook such things to advance western hegemony, just not my thing.

btw remember the last 4-5 years when centrists were calling for right wing "journalists" and political figures in the US to be tried for treason for working with foreign governments to subvert "democracy"? can't help but note the double standard!

[Edited on June 3, 2021 at 6:32 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2021 6:17:21 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Do you have links about his new-nazi ties besides Covert Action Mag and RT.com? I can’t find anything from reputable sources.

6/3/2021 9:13:11 PM

daaave
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You're not going to find anything in NYT or WaPo painting this guy in a bad light, but I can give you some of the evidence that's out there, without linking to a biased article.

Wikipedia has sources for his Azov Battalion ties, including a claim from their founder that Protasevich fought with them as a propagandist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Protasevich#Azov_Battalion_allegations

Images of him in in Azov Battalion fatigues and carrying an assault rifle:
https://preview.redd.it/opfunnckdh171.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c444410fed7382fbb9dd37899c9fbfbb937bcc0
https://sun9-60.userapi.com/impf/5V9zJCbBZdWDzdoecNjT5tyU8D0hqWArcZ38Pw/c0QHjfDrUPQ.jpg?size=1366x2048&quality=96&sign=5a3c683bc21a305ddd10c49e5a93c5dc&type=album

An interview with him from 2015 talking about his experience in the battalion and sharing some of his nationalist right-wing views:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnn.by%2F%3Fc%3Dar%26i%3D156593%26lang%3Dru

Photo of him wearing a neo-nazi shirt:
https://twitter.com/Volod_Ishchenko/status/1397513031618371592

And all of this has been corroborated by an actual journalist (who is sympathetic to the Belarusian protestors at large), although the claim here (and in the interview) is that Protasevich fought with a separate detachment that worked with Azov.
https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1397149388259135488
https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1397141260977250313

[Edited on June 3, 2021 at 10:11 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2021 10:07:43 PM

thegoodlife3
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Talia Lavin is an advocate for him and I trust her far more than Wikipedia entires/biased hit pieces

6/3/2021 10:14:05 PM

daaave
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I posted an interview with him and pictures of him though. I have to assume that Talia Levin hasn't seen this evidence, since most people haven't.

I mean dude, it's in his own words:

Quote :
"How did you get into the Azov regiment? Why did you choose this particular division?

I got to Azov on the basis of the selection, which was the same for everyone. The regiment has always, from the very first days, been one of the most disciplined and verified. There have never been and never will be random people here.

Discipline (including a complete ban on alcohol and drugs), a powerful ideological background, special and numerous trainings, the atmosphere of a single family, the "lack of separation" of commanders from the fighters - all this and much more has been done and is making "Azov" one of the most, if not the most combat-ready unit of Ukraine.

What political views prevail among the soldiers of the detachment? And what views do you personally adhere to?

Absolutely all the guys are patriots of their country. We are all nationalists in the best sense of the word. Preservation of national culture, traditions, history (truly great) and identity. This is what every nation should fight for. There are no excessive ultra-sentiments and never have been.

As for me personally, I am a supporter of limited democracy. I have nothing against gay people, but I do not support their adoption of children. I am not against national minorities, but for the toughening of migration legislation. I am not against democracy, but for the exclusion of absurd moments from it."


[Edited on June 3, 2021 at 10:33 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2021 10:31:42 PM

thegoodlife3
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she un-masks neo-nazis for a living

6/3/2021 10:41:00 PM

daaave
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I’m sure she, like most people, assumed he was a good guy considering the positive news coverage he’s gotten. What do you make of the fact that he fought with neo Nazis (particularly brutal ones), expressed right wing nationalist beliefs, and wore neo-nazi clothes? I don’t know how it could be more obvious...

6/3/2021 10:49:20 PM

thegoodlife3
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she has a history of outing neo-nazis and of course deserves the benefit of the doubt. pretty safe to assume she’s done her homework on him considering what’s been alleged/written about him.

you have a history of falling for misinformation

I’ll go with her credentials over yours

[Edited on June 3, 2021 at 11:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2021 10:55:03 PM

daaave
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https://www.thecut.com/2018/06/new-yorker-fact-checker-ice-tweet-resignation.html

Nobody’s perfect. To be fair though, ICE agents do tend to be fascists. As do US intelligence assets.

Btw though when/where did she advocate for him? I only saw her retweet that interview

[Edited on June 3, 2021 at 11:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2021 11:09:55 PM

thegoodlife3
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she was GamerGate’d over that

6/3/2021 11:18:55 PM

thegoodlife3
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to get back to the meat of the issue, it’s bad when a journalist gets arrested on a flight and then tortured by the regime of a dictator

you seem to be on the side of the dictator

6/3/2021 11:44:43 PM

daaave
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He was literally a neo nazi soldier in a battalion known for torturing and raping people. My apologies for not finding it in my heart to sympathize with his desire to overthrow the Belarusian government and help install another western puppet. Lukashenko sucks ass too, happy to admit that.

[Edited on June 4, 2021 at 12:40 AM. Reason : .]

6/4/2021 12:25:47 AM

Mr. Joshua
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Quote :
" He was literally a neo nazi soldier"


Quote :
" I can’t find anything from reputable sources."

6/4/2021 9:01:23 AM

daaave
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y’all are ridiculous lol

6/4/2021 10:04:29 AM

daaave
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57229635

Quote :
" In 2014-15, he was in eastern Ukraine, spending time with the ultra-nationalist Azov Battalion when it was fighting Russian-backed rebels.

He says he was there as a journalist and got wounded in the chest, but there exists a contemporary interview with a Belarusian Azov fighter (in Russian) using the nom de guerre Kim, who fits Mr Protasevich's description and calls himself a soldier."

6/4/2021 10:45:27 AM

Mr. Joshua
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Getting closer.

6/4/2021 1:43:32 PM

StTexan
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This thread needs more anti-imperialists

6/4/2021 11:50:06 PM

The Coz
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6/5/2021 7:37:05 AM

CaelNCSU
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^^

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/06/05/divide-and-brainwash-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/

Quote :
"
“Leftists” who try to derail the anti-imperialist conversation by concern trolling about human rights within Pentagon-targeted nations are the same as rightists who try to derail the racial justice conversation by concern trolling about “black-on-black crime”.

?

One of the biggest challenges for a developing anti-imperialist, at least in my experience, is learning to differentiate between those who actually want to end the oligarchic empire and those who just want the empire to act a bit more cosmetically nice than it does. These are two completely different positions, especially because the latter is pure fantasy: you cannot have a globe-dominating unipolar power structure that doesn’t use violent force to maintain that world order. Yet the two groups often wind up moving in overlapping circles."

6/6/2021 12:19:34 PM

shoot
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United Nation is founded by the idea of preventing WW III. So if the UN falls, the whole world falls. It has been 76 yrs since its founding and running well while the world maintains peaceful and stable. But disasters like last yr's pandemic has more people dead than a world war already.

6/7/2021 4:04:43 PM

The Coz
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Thanks to the CCP!

6/7/2021 4:44:04 PM

shoot
All American
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Is the virus official confirmed as man-made already? I'd rather see the pandemic as an independent medical case like the Spanish flu of the 21st century, not the biotech war as the precedent of WW III. It still need time to prove.

6/7/2021 4:53:16 PM

shoot
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^^ Did you watch The Virus Which Shocked the World on PBS documentary? The original source of the virus is still under investigation.

6/9/2021 9:57:08 AM

The Coz
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No, I haven't, but I would like to.

6/9/2021 10:39:12 AM

marko
Tom Joad
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There won't be sides. It will be conflict within nations.

6/9/2021 10:52:11 AM

shoot
All American
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^^ I actually only watched the beginning. It's two episodes and 3 hrs long. Maybe watching the trailer and getting the idea is enough.

6/9/2021 12:29:59 PM

UJustWait84
All American
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https://www.npr.org/2021/06/23/1009359158/hong-kongs-apple-daily-to-shut-down-this-weekend-after-having-its-assets-frozen?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3RhqFiBz_4WP0mA_9JAs2hWv6AydLV3iAJc3xjZoRw878Aa92caQAyzHg

Those damn Western Neo Nazi plants!

6/23/2021 1:07:41 PM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » World War 3 - who will be on which side? Page 1 2 3 4 [5], Prev  
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