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 Message Boards » » #15 NC State vs. #12 UNC-CH - 1/8 - 9:00p - ESPN Page 1 2 3 4 5 [6], Prev  
rwoody
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Correct

1/9/2019 7:57:50 PM

TreeTwista10
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What if he airballed it, but Dorn or another teammate got the rebound? Is that also no longer a choke? And is airballing an open 3 pointer ALWAYS a choke (assuming it's within X number of feet of the arc)? Trying to understand what I thought for 20 years I already did...

1/9/2019 8:24:42 PM

rwoody
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A choke is like porn, I know it when I see it. In the future if you see an event and you aren't sure, feel free to dm me.

Also 20 years? Are you young or did you just learn about choking kinda late?

1/9/2019 8:56:57 PM

TreeTwista10
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remember when Whittenburg choked back in 83

1/9/2019 9:11:29 PM

dmspack
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I can’t stop laughing at the “what is a choke” debate.

1/9/2019 9:41:23 PM

rwoody
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You see in this case, late in the game as I'm already pretty tired of the argument, tree spots up and takes his absolute best shot by referencing a last second desperation heave closer to half court then the 3 point line, thereby completely whiffing and losing the argument right before I was about to quit out of boredom. Instead I declare myself winner and move along.

[Edited on January 9, 2019 at 10:01 PM. Reason : E]

1/9/2019 10:01:35 PM

TreeTwista10
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dtownrwoody has been backpedaling for awhile now. when you can't actually explain what is or isn't a choke, just try to make bad jokes, i guess.

1/9/2019 10:23:01 PM

rwoody
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I'm not sure why i should be letting you list me scenarios where I say "choke or no choke" (new gameshow) when
1) I'm not getting paid for the education I'm giving you
2) you would just keep coming up with endless scenarios and iterations

Im not backpedaling at all, I'm just bored of this argument. The margin of Bruce's miss compared with the relative ease of the shot (time, openness etc) and the game situation all amount to a choke. Enough people have agreed that I'm clearly not just making something up out of the blue. Also i don't think much reputation for shitting on players like the tower/Justin/booze crowd, so I'd hope it's obvious im not just being negative to be negative.

[Edited on January 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM. Reason : And, of course, I didn't start the argument. And it was basically over before you jumped in. ]

Looks like about 3 were with me (not counting "the whole team choked" crowd) and 3 (not including you) were against me although one actually supported the premise of your argument. Halo seemed to think I was saying the whole team choked and donmega seemed to think I was saying Bryce was terrible all night instead of just that moment. Dms thinks we're both morons.

[Edited on January 9, 2019 at 11:11 PM. Reason : E]

1/9/2019 11:05:03 PM

TreeTwista10
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I look at choking as a mental breakdown that leads to losing a game you shouldn't, generally speaking. Missing 3 straight free throws while down 1 point with no time left. Missing a 10 foot putt followed by a 3 foot putt. Missing a wide open layup that would give you the win. Being up 30 points at the end of the 3rd quarter and losing the game. Things where you fuck up a 99% certain victory by mentally falling apart and not performing.

Missing certain shots can be choking, like a layup, but I've literally never heard anyone try to imply, before last night, that someone missing a 3 pointer, while down 4 points, is choking. Never. So I asked for someone to give an example of anybody else missing or airballing a 3 as being called "choking" as the consensus, and I still haven't seen an example. Surely, Bryce's miss last night wasn't the first instance of a college or NBA player choking by airballing an open 3 in a late game situation? I figured you were just mad at Bryce blowing the opportunity and called it choking, even though it was just a bad shot. Sometimes players miss shots and it doesn't have to be because they choked. They just missed.

1/9/2019 11:49:20 PM

justinh524
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This thread got real, real dumb.

1/9/2019 11:53:29 PM

TreeTwista10
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I also think measuring how a shot was missed is stupid. Airball = choke but brick = not choke? A player chokes based on what other player gets the rebound? You don't get fractional points for hitting the rim and there are plenty of instances where missed shots have resulted in offensive rebounds. So again, your defense of why this was a choke by clarifying how bad of a miss it was is dumb.

1/9/2019 11:55:36 PM

GenghisJohn
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jesus christ you guys

1/10/2019 1:17:52 AM

synapse
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Yeah

[Edited on January 10, 2019 at 1:58 AM. Reason : The only thing that's dumb is this conversation]

1/10/2019 1:58:07 AM

TreeTwista10
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it's cool to criticize the convo without chiming in on the actual argument. way to contribute.

[Edited on January 10, 2019 at 2:43 AM. Reason : not that synapse specifically would qualify as even a semi-expert on anything sports-related]

1/10/2019 2:43:10 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
"Dms thinks we're both morons. "


i'd like to re-state my position. i don't think you're both morons. i appreciate the entertainment, tbh.

1/10/2019 6:27:45 AM

Bullet
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Another game thread living up to its expectations

1/10/2019 9:39:42 AM

DonMega
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I just like how BLAME BLAME BLAME never dies.

Although talking about a single shot is way better than discussing a player or team or coach in general, we are making progress!!!

1/10/2019 9:53:25 AM

bdmazur
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If he made the shot you people would have called it clutch. But just because something isn't clutch doesn't make it a choke.

Making/not making the shot is binary. How we qualify it afterwards is not.

1/10/2019 6:11:13 PM

rwoody
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^^if you're talking about me that isn't true. Bryce is a pretty minor aspect of why we lost and we could have lost even if he made the shot. But yea I mean, after a loss someone takes the blame, after a win someone takes the credit. It's kinda how the world works.

^if he had made it, it WOULD have been clutch. Thats kinda how high pressure situations work. Success is clutch, mild failure is just kinda nothing, lack of clutch I guess, particularly egregious failure is a choke. Pretty basic.

1/10/2019 8:21:41 PM

TreeTwista10
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so basic that half of the people who have chimed in disagree with you

1/10/2019 10:14:48 PM

ActionPants
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If y'all decide that he didn't choke can we go back and win retroactively? If not then let's move on

1/11/2019 10:25:36 AM

JayMCnasty
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The easier a shot is, the less ""clutch" it is

Blowing it is subjective to shot difficulty. Missing a layup is much different than missing a 3 from the corner, and it is much easier to airball a 3 from the corner than from any other area of the floor.

1/11/2019 10:32:53 AM

justinh524
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So if a desperation 3 miss in the last minute of the game is choking, what are we calling Walker missing a billion layups all game long?

1/11/2019 11:00:54 AM

Bullet
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^Billion=4 ???

He was 1 for 4, with three offensive rebounds.

[Edited on January 11, 2019 at 11:10 AM. Reason : ]

1/11/2019 11:04:52 AM

afripino
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referring back to the wiki...
Quote :
"The term "clutch" is gaining popularity to describe the opposite of choking."


If he made it, it would have been clutch as hell. Ergo, since he did the TOTAL FUCKING OPPOSITE (passed it to UNC) it was a colossal choke. Hell, if it was a free throw that he airballed with the game on the line, that's also a choke.

When your number is called to carry us to victory at clutch-time and you stink it up with no reason other than you can't make an open shot (can't blame the defense on this one), you're choking.

1/11/2019 11:06:08 AM

afripino
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Quote :
"what are we calling Walker missing a billion layups all game long?"


Terrible performance. Choking happens in a moment, not during the entirety of a game.

[Edited on January 11, 2019 at 11:08 AM. Reason : DP!]

1/11/2019 11:08:01 AM

dmspack
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I’ve avoided this argument because I don’t really care. But did we just call that Bryce 3 a “desperation 3”? Sure, we were desperate for it to go in. But, like, an open three in the corner with plenty of time on the clock (ie, not rushed) isn’t a desperation 3 is it?

My god I can’t believe I just joined in this debate.

1/11/2019 11:17:09 AM

synapse
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This stupid argument is like the Borg.

I refuse to be assimilated, but I know my free will is going to be ripped away soon.

1/11/2019 11:24:27 AM

packboozie
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I am not sure they choked but Wyatt Walker and CJ Bryce were playing in the SoCon and Colonial Conferences before this year. That is likely the first time they have played in anything remotely close to that. And yes I know Bryce played UVA and Duke, but those were NCAA games on neutral floors.

They will get better in time under pressure.

[Edited on January 11, 2019 at 11:57 AM. Reason : We lost, who gives a shit]

1/11/2019 11:56:37 AM

justinh524
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every missed shot = choke

1/11/2019 12:34:14 PM

ncsuallday
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new thread should be up around 2 - been a busy week.

1/11/2019 12:38:51 PM

rwoody
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Yea it def wasn't a desperation 3 in any way. It was a 3 we needed, but without the breakaway there was still a minor chance with a miss. He also had time and space. It was a normal open look other than the elevated pressure.

1/11/2019 1:35:42 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
"new thread should be up around 2"


Oh thank god

1/11/2019 2:26:55 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"The term "clutch" is gaining popularity"


y'all hear about this new term "clutch" that the kids just started using?

1/11/2019 2:37:03 PM

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