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rwoody
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The silver lining?? Jesus....

4/21/2020 7:06:23 AM

aimorris
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psycho shit

4/21/2020 10:38:58 AM

theDuke866
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It’s not psycho. It’s why period recession is beneficial.

Now, that doesn’t do you any good at the individual level if you fall victim to it, and as someone whose job as secure, I understand that there’s an “easy for you to say” element at play here. Got it.

4/21/2020 6:09:04 PM

CalledToArms
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Still exempt from my company's salary cuts right now, so I can't complain. However, starting to see more and more equipment and material suppliers impacted or delayed, which may put some of our projects on hold or further slow the start of new projects if our clients see that they can't get their projects built anyway.

The demand for data centers has certainly not dropped, but there are a lot of outside factors at play here.

4/21/2020 6:26:56 PM

rwoody
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Look this isn't an economics class, as a human being it seems pretty gross, morally, to cheer layoffs bc they can make profits bump up a few points. Especially when combined with your views on social safety nets.

But I'll let the thread get back on topic

4/22/2020 10:52:04 AM

CaelNCSU
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Anyone with a job longer than a year has seen people that are entirely useless. Maybe the fire will cause them to do what they really love and work on their screenplay?

"How do 90% of people have jobs" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sbw0lZ9LmY?t=6m30s

4/22/2020 11:53:26 AM

theDuke866
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^^ i never "cheered layoffs."

and, well, it is kind of an economics class, in the sense that at the macro level, downturns are inevitable and over the longer term, there is some benefit to them.

You can do both, you know--have a detached, bigger picture perspective of the macro level over the long term, while still recognize, empathize with, and sympathize with the nearer term suffering on the individual level.

4/22/2020 1:04:20 PM

daaave
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downturns aren't inevitable - they're a result of our economic system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_contradictions_of_capital_accumulation

4/22/2020 6:04:24 PM

rwoody
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You said people getting permanently laid off is a silver lining. People losing their livelihoods so that the stock market can bump up a couple points is a silver lining.

If followed up with something about all the things we should do to help those people recover, therefore softening the impact of this NEGATIVE (obviously, clearly) event that is sometime necessary for economic growth.

But no, those people are fucked and, as long as it isn't me, that's a good thing!

4/22/2020 6:39:32 PM

iheartkisses
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This thread really got derailed.

Sadly, this is more than just a downturn. This is the beginning of something much bigger, with a much longer impact.

4/22/2020 10:57:26 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"Yep, that’s the silver lining in any recession...unless you’re the fat."


Surely you aren't chalking the 20+ million left unemployed by this pandemic up as the fat, right?

The question is a mere nicety and moreso asking you to explain how you think they're all the fat.

You can own the idea that your response was based as a shareholder/from the corporate perspective but in 2020 I don't think we need to bend ourselves these weird places to cape for those entities. They're doing just fine.

4/22/2020 11:26:03 PM

theDuke866
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No, I was responding to moron’s comment:

Quote :
" Person I went to high school with who was temporary laid off just found it their job is permanently gone. There’s going to be a lot of people like this. Businesses are already adapting to new more efficient workflows and this is a good opportunity to trim fat."


I said basically that pruning for better efficiency is a silver lining of recessions—i.e., that recessions suck, but there is some good that comes from them.

Obviously not everyone out of work right now is “the fat.” That’s much of why recessions suck.

[Edited on April 23, 2020 at 12:10 AM. Reason : The fuck? “Corporate perspectives” don’t view recessions favorably.]

[Edited on April 23, 2020 at 12:11 AM. Reason : ]

4/23/2020 12:09:52 AM

StTexan
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Quote :
" Anyone with a job longer than a year has seen people that are entirely useless"

4/23/2020 4:02:47 AM

Novicane
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We should be using the word - re-org. I think a shuffle is needed every few years in any company. People get complacent. Top performers need to grow. 5 blockers need to shift to something new. Low performers need to go.

4/23/2020 6:02:32 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"I said basically that pruning for better efficiency is a silver lining of recessions"


A silver lining for who??

Quote :
"The fuck? “Corporate perspectives” don’t view recessions favorably"


Dude you keep saying that people/"the fat" getting fired in a recession is a good thing. Who is this a good thing for? You as a shareholder? The corporations/businesses that are "trimming the fat"? Still trying to grasp what perspective you are viewing this from.

Quote :
"Obviously not everyone out of work right now is “the fat.”"


Obviously, which brings us back to whoever moron knows who got laid off and us not knowing if he was actually "the fat" or someone unfortunate enough to work in one of the many industries impacted by this pandemic.

This is not a normal recession and I don't see the value in trying to contort this situation to fit that economic lens.

4/23/2020 9:49:17 AM

mkcarter
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some aspects of my company(manufacturing) are actually breaking records, particularly in our Injection Molding line. We are getting a lot of new Covid-19 related orders.

4/23/2020 12:18:28 PM

synapse
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ha just noticed we have the same status

4/23/2020 1:18:59 PM

Geppetto
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What the @theDuke866 said may have been callous and unneeded but it doesn't make it wrong. When jobs reduce a labor force, rarely do they cut the most efficient, high performant members of the team.

Even in an economic crisis, reductions are made in a way that is intended to maintain talent. Regardless if the term fat is appropriate or not, even though he wasn't the first to use the term in this thread, we all know that it means lower performant individuals.

It's one thing to point the machiavellian nature of his comment but arguing the nature and practicality of it is simply posturing. If he comes out saying that these people should be let go and that, despite hardship, their social safety nets should be disassembled as well, then ridicule would be warranted.

4/23/2020 1:50:38 PM

theDuke866
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not just cutting lower performers, but superfluous or inefficient positions and structures.

how much will this permanently advance the adoption of telework, just as one example? Out of necessity, businesses will adapt. Much of that will be temporary, but some of it will be permanent and for the better.

Quote :
"This is not a normal recession and I don't see the value in trying to contort this situation to fit that economic lens."


whatever a "normal recession" is, if there is such a thing...I agree, this is not it. The way it is utterly demolishing--like down to or near zero--certain parts of the economy and leaving others largely untouched--albeit with most things somewhere in the middle--is not typical. That said, once it passes, most things will return to normal. Other changes it has forced will be recognized to be positive and will be retained, and recognizing that this will be a catalyst for some good things in the long run is not psycho, but obvious. It doesn't mean thet I cheer for recessions, or am sitting here happy that there's a fucking global plague and economic meltdown going on.

[Edited on April 23, 2020 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ]

4/23/2020 2:32:44 PM

daaave
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This is anecdotal, but I don't think it's uncommon: my company let go of 15 people yesterday. All of them were excellent at their jobs and had been with the company for many years, while others in their departments are new and inexperienced. I'm guessing that their time with their company meant that they were highly paid and thus "too expensive" for a recession. Maybe it was a good choice for our corporate overlords, but wow, what a way to treat people who have spent a decade of their lives working their asses off for this company.

[Edited on April 23, 2020 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/23/2020 3:54:11 PM

Novicane
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^always remember - the company owns the job.

Doesn't matter about you, how long you been there, what your degree is,etc.

if you have a window to better yourself, take it.

4/23/2020 8:26:56 PM

ShawnaC123
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Got a message today from HR asking if I had time for a phone call. I shit my pants for like 30 seconds but it was like just a survey about how working from home was going.

My job seems to be stable enough for now. The state let our factory stay open so they can keep making and shipping product. Demand is high so I guess they can keep making money to pay me.

4/23/2020 8:56:54 PM

daaave
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^^
Well yeah, but my point was businesses are not "trimming the fat". They're not cutting superfluous or inefficient positions. They're just reducing the number of positions so they can demand other workers fill the gaps for less pay. This would be a great time to demand increased democracy in the workplace - unfortunately we've been conditioned to accept subservience as individualism.

[Edited on April 23, 2020 at 10:50 PM. Reason : .]

4/23/2020 10:48:21 PM

HaLo
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^

4/23/2020 11:18:15 PM

theDuke866
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JFC, nobody is saying that we’re glad this is happening or that every job lost represents a needed pruning.

4/24/2020 12:37:33 AM

acraw
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I accepted a position in November at a startup (pharma), < 10 people. We have a weird funding structure, so not sure where we all stand or how it even works because the company is still in early phase R&D. In early March CEO says we are all safe but did apply for the small biz loan.

4/24/2020 1:05:12 AM

Geppetto
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Quote :
"Well yeah, but my point was businesses are not "trimming the fat". They're not cutting superfluous or inefficient positions. They're just reducing the number of positions so they can demand other workers fill the gaps for less pay. This would be a great time to demand increased democracy in the workplace - unfortunately we've been conditioned to accept subservience as individualism."


How do you know they were good at their jobs? I'm not asking this to be a jerk, but more so because I have been through several layoffs where I've heard people ask why individual x was let go because they were "good at their job." But in reality, people just assumed they were good at the individual was good because they liked them, while their actual reviews were below performance.

There is also the case in which some areas of the company are lower performing, which in turn can impact hard working people within a low performing group.

4/24/2020 8:51:45 AM

synapse
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My nephew just got laid off in favor of outsourcing his job to zee Russians/opportunism.

4/24/2020 9:21:34 AM

daaave
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^^
I worked directly with a few of them and could compare them with others in their department.

It's really beside the point though. Even if they were slower than others, they were doing their jobs. It's now up to the rest of us to work more hours to fill their roles during a merit and hiring freeze.

4/24/2020 10:20:05 AM

CalledToArms
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Wife is going to go on LOA from her main job - they are opening up the store she helps run tomorrow at one of the busiest malls in the country. Just doesn't make sense to us. So they are giving her up to a 60 day LOA window to evaluate the situation and be able to come back. No pay but continued benefits.

I don't expect the mall to be packed, but there just doesn't seem to be any sense in going to work when it involves purposely putting yourself into extended personal interactions with strangers. Sucks when some of her other main jobs are also non-existent at the moment (performance dance, performing in the band). She at least has continued to teach dance remotely via zoom 3 nights a week.

4/30/2020 4:25:12 PM

daaave
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My company is doing a 4 week furlough...spread out into 1 week periods throughout the year. What a pain in the ass. Not even sure if I'll be able to get unemployment for it.

4/30/2020 6:03:47 PM

theDuke866
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that's weird.

file for unemployment for the first week. you prob won't get paid for that one, although i'm not sure with the whole CARES Act thing. i bet you'll get paid for the other 3, though.

4/30/2020 7:54:15 PM

daaave
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They're scheduling them over holidays

They're assuming that we'll get the unemployment so if the first week goes poorly a lot of people will be very angry. We'll see what happens!

4/30/2020 9:42:52 PM

Geppetto
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Where I worked several years ago did that in 2009. They called it, very tongue in cheek, MULA. Mandatory Unpaid Leave Act. I don’t think anyone actually got unemployment in that time but I do think CARES allows furloughed employees to get UI. However, there may be some other qualifiers there.

I worry about my job even though we are busier than ever. The thing is I worry about my job even in a good economic time. Each person who relies on an organization for employment is just a PowerPoint proposal and a pen stroke away from being restructured.

5/1/2020 9:00:26 AM

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