Here me out here.

He's not doing any good in his current position anymore. Trump isn't going to listen to anything he says, regardless of what it is he's saying. I say Trump should cut him loose, so we can get the tell-all scoop so he can shed some light on how badly things have been botched. Horosho seems to think that this coronovirus steamroller would've flattened any president, but I disagree.

With him out from the bounds of the Trump administration, I feel like he could do a lot more good somewhere else, or perhaps go to work for another administration like the UK to help Europe keep the spread down, which would eventually help us and the economy.

5/14/2020 10:47:09 AM

People quitting and writing tell-alls about the Trump Administration has done dicketty-squat for curtailing this administration's destructive policies in the past, but whatever floats your goat, I suppose.

5/14/2020 10:52:21 AM

Removing him from the task force is one thing but “firing” him from NIH would be a horrendous decision. His work has been indispensable for 30 years and one of the reasons we only really know of him now is because Trump is a reality show conman. He worked for five administrations and was heavily leaned on through H1N1, Ebola, etc..

Also, regarding your comment on Earl. There is some nuance that needs to be recognized here. He’s wrong in that Trump absolutely has made things exponentially worse. No serious person would even contest that. BUT, he’s right in that COVID-19 coming here was inevitable and no matter who was POTUS would have overseen an economic and health emergency. And he’s right in that our healthcare system (in more ways than just having access to care being so heavily tied to employment) only made the problem worse.

5/14/2020 11:34:11 AM

That's true - I would prefer he take the high road and submit his resignation before Trump has a chance to fire him.

I feel like he could probably do just as much good in the private sector somewhere. Trump isn't going to let him get any real progress made at this point.

5/14/2020 11:51:36 AM

Let's let Dr Phil have a go at it.

5/14/2020 12:09:11 PM

Most of the things that were botched were things Trump didn't even know or understand. If Trump were a better President he may have put forth the effort to know and understand what needed doing. But, given he isn't, it falls upon the heads of our various agencies to do their damn jobs, which they did not do.

5/17/2020 1:30:01 PM

"Trump is simply too stupid to be blamed"

5/17/2020 1:35:40 PM

"Trump is simply not important enough to be solely blamed."

5/17/2020 2:11:45 PM

The real kicker is that all of the lines Trump and his followers are being shamed for trace back to Fauci. Fauci's guidance was part of the problem with the Trump response. I don't blame Fauci for that because he gave the best available guidance at the time. The real problem is that people don't understand the difference between "top expert" and "always knows what he's talking about".

Quote :

"His work has been indispensable for 30 years"

This is a pseudo-scientific mindset. Science operates on consensus and duplicability of results. Not hierarchy. No one person should be considered "indispensable" or infallible. Even if they have the most experience. IF its true that he has been indespensible for 30 years, then the nation has been much more fucked all this time than even I've thought. There must be dozens or perhaps even hundreds of people capable of doing Fauci's job.

The person shouldn't even matter at all if we're talking Science. The media machine has convinced the nation otherwise and we've ended up following a lot of Fauci's hunches and opinions instead of sticking to the Science which was very limited. Lets look at his record on this:


January 21

Quote :

"So Fauci, in a qualified response said, don't worry "right now;" "you need to take it seriously;" and although "this is not a major threat," keep an ear open to the CDC and Homeland Security. "

January 26

Quote :

"Fauci reiterated that the covid-19 "isn’t something the American people need to worry about or be frightened about" because, at the time, it was centered in China and the U.S. could screen travelers from that nation. "

February-17

Quote :

"Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave." "We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children.""

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

February 29

Quote :

"Alexander, Feb. 29: So, Dr. Fauci, it’s Saturday morning in America. People are waking up right now with real concerns about this. They want to go to malls and movies, maybe the gym as well. Should we be changing our habits and, if so, how? Fauci: No. Right now, at this moment, there’s no need to change anything that you’re doing on a day-by-day basis. Right now the risk is still low, but this could change. I’ve said that many times even on this program. You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread."

March 8

Quote :

""There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes on March 8, 2020."

So just to be clear, the position of waiting until there was mass community spread to institute restrictions (the big mistake), was the policy recommendation of Fauci. Yet democrats and media are only blaming Trump for this strategy and screaming "LISTEN TO FAUCI". Its really weird and almost like they think Fauci is the one taking advice from Trump on what to say. Either way, Fauci is part of the administration's response. You cannot completely champion one and completely criticize the other.

[Edited on May 17, 2020 at 2:32 PM. Reason : irreplacable]

5/17/2020 2:12:59 PM

it is pretty easy to blame Trump as he was the figure stating that there wasn't a serious problem for far too long, and he really did nothing to prep the hospitals and states for the eventual shutdown.

5/17/2020 6:49:58 PM

Quote :

"But, given he isn't, it falls upon the heads of our various agencies to do their damn jobs, which they did not do."

Did it never occur to you to pin some responsibility on the person who appointed these heads?

For the record: I am referring to such luminaries as Jared Kushner and Mike Pence. Are you perfectly OK with Trump assigning coronavirus tasks to them? Are you suggesting that Trump is not only too stupid to deal with the problem (and is therefore blameless), he is also too stupid to appoint someone to deal with the problem (and is still therefore blameless)?

[Edited on May 17, 2020 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

5/17/2020 7:05:07 PM

I'm sorry but if my manager has a problem at work and can't find the right people to deal with said problem, saying "he's just to stupid to understand the problem" isn't going to keep him employed.

It's bonkers that we're in a position where we say it's ok, because the leader of the free world is just too stupid to understand the problem.

5/18/2020 8:53:34 AM

The thread title is about Fauci and how he is such a saint we need to save him from the solely responsible Trump. I pointed out Fauci also deserves blame. This does not in any way mean Trump is blameless.

So, back to the OP, Fauci should be fired for incompetence.

5/18/2020 7:34:27 PM

^And I was responding to the post where you were making asinine excuses for Trump. If you don't like being called out for making asinine excuses then stop making asinine excuses.

5/18/2020 8:29:31 PM

Quote :

"And I was responding to the post where you were making asinine excuses for Trump."

I don't see anything I wrote as excusing Trump for anything. bbehe said such a thing, as if being "stupid" would be somehow not Trump's fault.

5/18/2020 11:30:12 PM

This specific part:

Quote :

"But, given he isn't, it falls upon the heads of our various agencies to do their damn jobs, which they did not do."

excuses Trump. Why does being incompetent absolve him of responsibility? You say it falls on other heads; I say it still falls on Trump's.

Excuses Excuses....

5/19/2020 12:32:36 AM

Quote :

"You say it falls on other heads"

"it" being our hopes, not responsibility. "it" really is a bad word to use, you can't read my mind as to what I mean by it, so, makes sense you presumed "it" was whatever you wanted it to be.

I'm an engineer, I think of things as a failure chain (error chain some prefer). That the plane crash required three systems to fail in succession doesn't absolve the second system of responsibility for the plane crash. They're all responsible, because if any one of them had not failed the plane should not have crashed.

5/19/2020 10:19:47 AM

^And yet it's Fauci that you claim should be fired. Do you think Trump should not also be held accountable? Impeached? Voted out? Nothing? Yes, I know that is not the topic of the thread; I am simply asking the question.

And if Fauci were to be fired, I'm assuming Trump would be the one who chooses the replacement (I don't know for sure, I'll admit). Are you seriously endorsing that? If so, I stand by my original claim: You continue to excuse Trump.

[Edited on May 20, 2020 at 7:12 AM. Reason : ]

5/20/2020 7:07:23 AM

Quote :

"The thread title is about Fauci and how he is such a saint we need to save him from the solely responsible Trump. I pointed out Fauci also deserves blame. This does not in any way mean Trump is blameless. So, back to the OP, Fauci should be fired for incompetence."

Incompetence would mean he is unable to communicate guidance. He communicated the guidance very well. The problem is that the situation is dynamic and the guidance has been wrong multiple times. Sometimes, a situation is new and Science takes a while to get it right. People have to face that. Its nobody's fault that no one knew how to handle a brand new virus.

5/20/2020 9:45:07 PM

Quote :

"^And yet it's Fauci that you claim should be fired. Do you think Trump should not also be held accountable? Impeached? Voted out? Nothing? Yes, I know that is not the topic of the thread; I am simply asking the question."

What do you guess my answer to that question is? It shouldn't be a mystery. My statements above aren't clear, but they should at least be heavily suggestive. Either way, it seems if anyone questions Fauci or any other part of the Administration, you are incapable of presuming it is for any rational reason and just "A Trump Defense!!!" But whatever, a thread clearly about Fauci simply MUST be about Trump, so let us talk about your favorite subject, Trump, some more.

Of course Trump should be voted out of office. He never should have been voted the Republican nominee, nevermind elected President. I certainly never voted for him. I don't believe I've ever voted for any President running on a Republican ticket.

[Edited on May 20, 2020 at 10:08 PM. Reason : .,.]

5/20/2020 10:07:50 PM

^I'm not the one who brought Trump up, bro. I was responding to you posting about Trump, but whatever.

5/21/2020 6:13:12 AM