User not logged in - login - register
Home Calendar Books School Tool Photo Gallery Message Boards Users Statistics Advertise Site Info
go to bottom | |
 Message Boards » » NC State Basketball 2021-2022 Page 1 ... 17 18 19 20 [21] 22, Prev Next  
jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

Keatts thinks this team is top 25-30 with Bates. Fuckin lol

2/26/2022 7:49:50 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

My preseason opinion was with Bates we were maybe a bubble team. I disagree with the top 25 comment for sure. But it’s so hard to say how good we’d be (or not good) with Bates. Just the threat of him on the court makes teams respect the pick and roll so much more than they currently do. Ebe or Gibson aren’t real threats to score, so defenses don’t have to worry about the pick and roll guy at all. It totally negates our offense…and, yes, that can also be a criticism of Keatts. Obviously Bates adds to our defense too. Bacot probably wouldn’t get 28 and 18 today with Bates on the court.

Bates doesn’t solve everything and I really doubt we’re a tournament with him (especially given Hayes’ regression). But it really is hard to quantify how big of a difference he’d make.

2/26/2022 8:13:29 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
33156 Posts
user info
edit post

Bates has had shoulder problems his whole career, should have found better backups

2/26/2022 9:53:41 PM

natureboy
All American
2475 Posts
user info
edit post

Like someone else said the announcer had to throw in the obligatory “State fans are a little out of control. It might take 8 years to get it going”. So tired of this narrative from announcers. Also, bates is great at defense but lets not act like he was a star on offense.

2/26/2022 11:02:54 PM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Bates is light years ahead of Dowuona/Gibson offensively. We essentially can't run any pick and roll with them because they're incapable of finishing

2/26/2022 11:06:52 PM

TreeTwista10
MyYouthIPrayToKeep
144431 Posts
user info
edit post

Bates averaged 10 and 6 last year, with 3 blocks per game. It's not unreasonable to think he, if healthy, would've averaged 13 and 8 this year, or even better. But who knows what our record would be with him.

2/26/2022 11:14:08 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
33156 Posts
user info
edit post

Not sure why we're hand waving defense, how many games did a post player go off, or get constant doubles leaving shooters wide open. Ebe had a couple decent games but is too weak and not athletic enough. Gibson is a turnstile on d

[Edited on February 27, 2022 at 12:55 AM. Reason : E]

2/27/2022 12:55:07 AM

StTexan
All American
2650 Posts
user info
edit post

Won’t lie i googled that word

2/27/2022 1:12:19 AM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

^^ I agree that the defense is the primary concern this year. The offense wasn’t pretty and was really streaky but did enough to generally keep us in games. With a better defense, that offense is good enough to win us some games. Bates isn’t a lock down defender, but he’s infinitely better than Gibby or Ebe on either end of the court. Also, having an extra body (or 3 with Ross and Gantt) would allow us to press more and play a more aggressive style. So I think lack of depth, on top of the Bates injury, really hurt the defense too. We’re gonna close the season going 8 deep. We had the roster to go 11 deep (Gibson would make 12, but with a healthy roster I don’t see him getting much time at all). I know nobody wants to hear the injury excuse, I agree it’s old and tired. But I think it’s more than just losing Bates and then a couple guys who weren’t any good anyways. It’s losing the depth that allows us to play defense the way Keatts would like to play (which isn’t always a good defense, by the way).

2/27/2022 7:04:49 AM

Kickstand
All American
10280 Posts
user info
edit post

Looks like GT has the easier road to not finish last in the conference.

3/1/2022 1:37:07 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
33156 Posts
user info
edit post

Purdue on tv, you guys remember when we took them to ot?


Yea me neither

3/1/2022 10:54:22 PM

DonMega
Save TWW
4010 Posts
user info
edit post

State had me believin for a while tonight, but now I am

Hoping for some fun in acc tourney, but also ready to forget about this season

3/2/2022 10:46:53 PM

rwoody
Save TWW
33156 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"but we have two fringe NBA players in seabron "


3/2/2022 10:50:16 PM

natureboy
All American
2475 Posts
user info
edit post

We have turned into a complete dumpster fire. Hellems played well for a half and Smith did pretty good. Seabron has been figured out. I hate to be mean to Cam but almost every time he touches the ball something bad happens.

3/2/2022 10:57:04 PM

rayef3rw
All American
557 Posts
user info
edit post

I actually thought we looked solid for spurts in the first half. Obviouslt Wake found another gear in the second and was shooting the lights out, plus our sustained foul trouble was too much -- they kept driving to the rim and fishing for fouls and largely got fair calls imo. If we opened the season how we played the first half-3/4 (ish) of this game I'd be much happier with where we are.

Still WAAAAAY to many of our shots were wide open 3s from the top of the arc with no attempt at play development. Still sloppy. But I don't think last night was horrendous.

3/3/2022 7:59:14 AM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Still WAAAAAY to many of our shots were wide open 3s from the top of the arc with no attempt at play development"


I would argue that if you are getting wide open 3s, then you don't need any more play development.

3/3/2022 12:22:21 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

Yeah I didn’t watch. But if we’re taking wide open 3s at the top of the key, then that’s not a bad shot.

3/3/2022 12:32:42 PM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

My guess is he meant to say semi-open, early in the shot clock 3s with no passes or offense running. That seems to be more in-line with what I see in a Keatts offense. But I haven't watched a game in a month. #feelsgoodman

3/3/2022 12:56:11 PM

rayef3rw
All American
557 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"My guess is he meant to say semi-open, early in the shot clock 3s with no passes or offense running"


Yeah, you're right, that's what I meant. Emphasis on the no attempt at play development. There were moments where we were better at passing than usual, but still, only flashes.

I saw somewhere on Twitter (can't find it anymore) where someone broke down the no. of passes between players before a shot was attempted and something like 25%+ of the teams' possessions are just 'run down the court, take a shot, turnover or basket, possession over'

3/3/2022 1:01:22 PM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

I saw a similar stat for the second half of the UNC game.

https://twitter.com/d_johnson13/status/1498082154676371457

15/37 possessions ended with 0 passes after reaching half-court.
28/37 possessions ended with 1 pass or less.

Casey Morsell identified this in the post-game talking about the 2nd half against Wake.

"Everything. Everything changed. Defense, we weren’t as active. We didn’t talk as much. On offense, we went back to what made us lose all year. Selfish basketball."

This isn't a new development. Anyone who has watched Keatts-ball over the last 5 years knows it bogs down regularly with no ball movement. It's a big reason why I have no faith in Keatts to actually be a winner.

For giggles, I went and looked up assist numbers and we are ranked 304th in the country in APG.

3/3/2022 1:34:06 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

The assist numbers are startling. But it makes sense when we have no inside presence to score off the pick and roll. We have a point guard (Hayes) that sucks and is barely playable at this point…and the guys running the offense in his place are not pass first players (T and Seabron).

Obviously that’s on the coach for not adjusting his offensive game plan. But yeah… we’ve got a perfect recipe for generating next to 0 assists

3/3/2022 2:25:25 PM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Lol i just looked up some stats. Hayes has the third highest usage % on the team (behind only Smith and Seabron) while having by far the worst effective fg % and true shooting % on the team. Pretty much sums up why everything goes to shit when he plays. The only less efficient player on the team is Pass, who has played extremely limited minutes.

Oh god, it gets so much worse in conference only stats. Hayes efficiency numbers fall off a cliff (even worse than his non-conference/total numbers) while he still has a ridiculous high usage.

3/3/2022 2:38:53 PM

Dynasty2004
Bawls
5514 Posts
user info
edit post

Hayes goes to another team and averages 20 for them next season lol

3/3/2022 3:04:53 PM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Yeah i don't see that happening.

3/3/2022 3:32:19 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

Feels like a change of scenery would benefit him.

3/3/2022 6:43:44 PM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Lol i just looked up some stats. Hayes has the third highest usage % on the team (behind only Smith and Seabron) while having by far the worst effective fg % and true shooting % on the team. Pretty much sums up why everything goes to shit when he plays. The only less efficient player on the team is Pass, who has played extremely limited minutes.

Oh god, it gets so much worse in conference only stats. Hayes efficiency numbers fall off a cliff (even worse than his non-conference/total numbers) while he still has a ridiculous high usage."


It's easy to shit on Hayes, but I liken it a bit (there is other stuff going on with Hayes this season I am convinced) to BB and Allen last season. They are what they are. And they sucked because of what they were being asked/allowed to do--that's on Keatts. You either fuckin make Hayes into a pass-first PG or sit his ass down. Don't allow him to continually jack up inefficient shots. It's not like Pass couldn't have played more minutes. Again, it's hard to say that without sounding like Pass was the savior--hes not--but he literally could NOT have done worse than Hayes in those minutes.

I was about the biggest BB and Allen hater on the board last season--but I didn't actually blame BB or Allen. They did their best--just like I'm sure Hayes is (although his seems to be at least a little bit a selfishness issue). It's ridiculous the amount of minutes they were getting over actually productive and offensively creative players and I still believe that minutes situation was a big reason why Shak left.

3/4/2022 11:13:05 AM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Pass has the lowest PER on the team.

I'm just saying the stats back up what my eyes see - Hayes kills the offense when he's on the floor. Also his minutes have decreased (both on a whole ass compared to last year as well as from non-conference play into this conference season.) Keatts has obviously been sitting Hayes when he takes bad shots. But he's pretty fuckin limited in who can play in his place. Allen has been limited by his foot injury pretty much the entire conference season and Pass just isn't ready to play heavy minutes, which isn't really surprising for a guy who didn't concentrate solely on basketball in high school.

I don't think this is anything like the Beverly situation. Hayes was better than this last year. First of all, he e could actually hit shots. Secondly, he didn't just dribble up the court and shoot a terrible shot nearly every possession. He has regressed terribly this season. Beverly did the same thing he did for the three previous years - shoot a bunch of threes and play terrible defense. No one predicted Hayes would play so bad he'd lose his starting job and become arguably the worst rotation player in the entire conference. Hard for me to really find any similarities between the two situations. You (and I, the biggest BB hater of all time) thought Beverly should have played less, but that's because there were arguably better players on the team. That isn't really the case this year.

To me, it seems like Hayes's problem is he's trying to outshine Smith and Seabron and show he can do what they do. He can't, and it's completely broken his game. He wants to be "the man" when he really needs to be a role player on this team. At this point, I'd be extremely surprised if he's here next year.

3/4/2022 11:34:07 AM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

PER is a worthless stat when the sample size is as small as Pass's. It's arguably a worthless stat altogether unless it backs up what you also see on the court--which is true in Hayes case, but I'm not so sure in Pass's. Who knows how good he can be at this point because of how little he sees the court.

The situations are similar in that Keatt's can't just throw up his hands and go "injuries, roster, etc.". You make the best with what you have and in this instance, if everyone with eyes can agree that Hayes is shitting up the offense (and the numbers back it up), then you play Pass his minutes until Hayes fixes his shit. I'm not saying Pass is Shak, but he damn sure isn't worse than Hayes has been. I actually think there is some hope with what Pass could be and if it was a choice between who transfers--Hayes or Pass--then why can't that choice have been made a month ago when Pass could have been getting 15-20 a night instead of Hayes.

3/4/2022 1:36:58 PM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Eh, i wouldn't say Pass's sample size is too small. He's averaging almost 9 minutes a game.

And yeah these aren't similar at all. Moore showed he could compete (also he played lots of minutes despite you continuing to push the narrative that he didn't) while Pass hasn't really shown much of anything in his time on the court. Also, i don't think Pass came in expecting to play major minutes as a freshman so I don't really think he's gonna transfer.

I don't think Pass is ready to play a major role. He struggles pretty badly on defense. He needs time to let the game slow down for him. Giving him 20+ minutes a game is a recipe for failure, for both him and the team.

3/4/2022 1:49:47 PM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

The only narrative about Shak that I am pushing is that he had a) significantly less minutes than both BB and Allen--neither of whom were as good as him even as a freshman, b) that our team was dogshit last year and there was absolutely no reason to keep the same minutes management given the circumstance, and c) Shak's decision to transfer was in part due to this misuse.

In the interest of beating a dead horse, yes, in a vacuum, 18 mpg is great as a freshman. In our circumstance, where we were losing, we struggled with any sort of playmaking, our best scorer went down mid-year, and the alternative were two guys who played "safe" offensively but were not stellar defenders or shooting the ball effectively, it's ridiculous that Shak didn't play more.

Keatts gets stubborn in his personnel decisions. It's a reason why he isn't a winner at this level.

While I agree that in an ideal world Pass gets to gradually ease into the role, when Hayes is as bad as he was this season, I simply don't believe Pass could have been worse than Hayes if they flip-flopped minutes (15-20 min a game instead of 8). It's not as if Hayes was a lock-down defender this season either. It appears that Pass is happy on the team, so I certainly hope he doesn't go anywhere, but if the decision to play him so little leads to Pass transfering, then I'm gonna look at it as a Keatts fuckup the same way he did with Shak.

[Edited on March 4, 2022 at 2:27 PM. Reason : d]

3/4/2022 2:26:08 PM

Dynasty2004
Bawls
5514 Posts
user info
edit post

Takayo Siddle just won the conference at UNCW. Maybe he is our missing link.

3/4/2022 3:55:35 PM

Bullet
All American
26551 Posts
user info
edit post

(Keatts was 1st in the conference 3 years in a row at UNCW)

3/4/2022 4:19:05 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

I’m sure nobody is watching this shit but lol at that technical foul on Hellems. He clearly must have a reputation among refs. Seems like he’s gotten multiple weak ass technicals in his career. He talks trash and complains to refs, but some of what he’s punished for feels weak

3/5/2022 3:41:47 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

If Seabron comes back, he has to develop at pump fake and/or a euro step or something. He can get inside so easily but just struggles to finish against big and athletic teams. He’s very predictable.

3/5/2022 3:45:59 PM

natureboy
All American
2475 Posts
user info
edit post

Seabron needs to just develop a mid range jumper. Right now everyone knows he is trying for a layup every drive. It was good to see Smith have some drives and mid range shots go down today to add to his threes.

3/5/2022 10:31:52 PM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

https://theacc.com/news/2022/3/6/athlete-awards-acc-unveils-2021-22-mens-basketball-awards.aspx

Seabron with ACC most improved player as well as all-acc second team. Good for him.

Terq gets honorable mention for all-acc as well as all-acc rookie team and third in the voting for freshman of the year.

Somehow Cam got a vote for sixth man of the year. LOL My dude isn't even sixth man of the year on this team much less in the ACC. Tell me you don't watch NCstate without telling me you don't watch NC State.

Shockingly, no state players on the all defensive team

While I am glad the season is over, I feel the least excited about this March madness as I have in years. I barely watched college basketball this year except for NC state until about a month ago. Kinda bummed about that as usually this time of year with March madness, the masters coming up and the NBA coming down the backstretch is my favorite part of the sports calendar.

[Edited on March 7, 2022 at 9:28 AM. Reason : d]

3/7/2022 9:22:16 AM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

Quote :
"Somehow Cam got a vote for sixth man of the year. "


This is why the votes need to be made public, so we can give whoever said this copious amounts of shit.

3/7/2022 11:43:59 AM

jocristian
All American
7295 Posts
user info
edit post

Not sure if it's a media guy from somewhere else who doesn't watch the games, or if it's a state homer, but if it's a state guy my bet is on Tristan Tucker from the Technician. We will never know.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article259053673.html

3/7/2022 12:26:56 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

It feels like most State fans are very clearly fed up with Hayes’ poor play. Which would make it even funnier if it was a State homer that voted for Cam. Fans outside of the Big 4 probably don’t even know who Hayes is so they can’t be too mad at a vote for him. But fans that know him, know it’s a terrible vote.

3/7/2022 12:42:17 PM

beatsunc
All American
10562 Posts
user info
edit post

survive and advance

3/8/2022 6:36:54 AM

rwoody
Save TWW
33156 Posts
user info
edit post

Die and cry

3/8/2022 7:23:08 AM

Jeepin4x4
A'hoy hoy
35553 Posts
user info
edit post

Lose and Transfer

3/8/2022 9:03:33 AM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

One and done

3/8/2022 9:54:29 AM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

I fully expect Hellems to get his money’s worth in what should be his last college game. At least 18 FG attempts imo. Probably a technical too.

3/8/2022 4:11:50 PM

Bullet
All American
26551 Posts
user info
edit post

It's at 4:30 on ACCN, right?

My guide is showing that as Louisville vs GT.

3/8/2022 4:19:47 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

UL is the late game.

State is playing now! Everybody! Get to your screens! It’s can’t watch television!

3/8/2022 4:56:38 PM

HaLo
All American
13547 Posts
user info
edit post

Pls to lose so we can end this thread

3/8/2022 6:22:30 PM

dmspack
oh we back
21997 Posts
user info
edit post

Tried to make it interesting at the end but then we decided to not foul down 2 possessions with 20+ seconds left. That was odd. But it’s not like we were gonna win anyways.

3/8/2022 7:10:30 PM

justinh524
Sprots Talk Mod
23760 Posts
user info
edit post

WTNY

3/8/2022 7:19:22 PM

TreeTwista10
MyYouthIPrayToKeep
144431 Posts
user info
edit post

what are the chances Bates comes back for another year? it's not like he's gonna get drafted to the NBA coming off this season.

3/8/2022 10:42:51 PM

 Message Boards » Sports Talk » NC State Basketball 2021-2022 Page 1 ... 17 18 19 20 [21] 22, Prev Next  
go to top | |
Admin Options : move topic | lock topic

© 2022 by The Wolf Web - All Rights Reserved.
The material located at this site is not endorsed, sponsored or provided by or on behalf of North Carolina State University.
Powered by CrazyWeb v2.38 - our disclaimer.