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 Message Boards » » Democracy has Failed Page [1] 2, Next  
CaelNCSU
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23373795/curtis-yarvin-neoreaction-redpill-moldbug

Doesn't drive home the point that this circle thinks Trump is incompetent enough. Good summary and background of the New Right that's been stewing since before Obama was elected.


Quote :
"Additionally, Trump himself proved a filter of sorts to the conservative intellectual class. As the president disdained the norms of classically liberal democracy, conservatives who were attached to those norms either self-selected out of the party or got purged. The pro-Trump intellectual space was taken by the New Right, thinkers arguing the left’s control of culture, society, and government have gotten so bad that extreme measures were necessary to reverse it — and that previous GOP leaders were too hesitant to fully recognize they’re in a war and need to fight back.

Take, for instance, Vance. In explaining to podcast host Jack Murphy why he became a Trump supporter after initially disdaining him, Vance said, “I saw and realized something about the American elite, and about my role in the American elite, that took me just a while to figure out. I was redpilled” — using the reference Yarvin helped popularize. “We are in a late republican period,” Vance told Murphy. “If we’re going to push back against it, we’re going to have to get pretty wild, and pretty far out there, and go in directions that a lot of conservatives right now are uncomfortable with.”"

10/25/2022 6:51:09 PM

The Coz
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It's true. We all voted for you to get a COVID vaccination, and as far as we know, you never did. You did move the goalposts a lot, though.

There is no intellectual class in the current GOP. Just straight up comic book villains with their diabolical plotting.

10/25/2022 7:26:27 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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Counterpoint: autocracies lead to spectacular failures like Russia's blundered invasion of Ukraine.

10/26/2022 12:35:45 PM

UJustWait84
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TBF, it's been an embarrassing failure...to date. But tell that to all the dead Russians' and Ukrainians' families and see how they view the invasion in terms of success/failures.

10/26/2022 12:47:04 PM

rjrumfel
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People on both sides have been screaming that capitalism and democracy has failed and is dead for years. It's important that these voices don't become mainstream. One could argue that since candidates are parroting what Yarhvin is saying, perhaps this voice is starting to become mainstream. This is why we don't vote for those candidates.

10/26/2022 2:34:33 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ good luck on that. All someone with authoritarian tendencies has to say is: I'll make them pay for closing schools and job loss due to Pfizer propaganda.

After living through 2021 in California with a new baby and having to worry about my job loss, that's basically my number one issue. Voted for Obama twice, but if any politician says they'll put public health officials in work camps they have my vote.

Oh, and no never got vaccinated. Got covid after 4 months of living in Florida. No fever, just body aches. Recovered in 4 days.

[Edited on October 26, 2022 at 3:30 PM. Reason : A]

10/26/2022 3:28:30 PM

The Coz
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Because that's a perfectly rational position. Why did you come back to troll?

10/26/2022 3:32:01 PM

CaelNCSU
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Rage isn't rational, but it's a real emotion that effects the outcome of many things in the real world. Pretending the world is rational after 2015 is silly. People aren't educated, don't know history, and are barely literate. Trying to expect them to react rationally isn't a good model of the world.

Persuasion/propaganda and knowing who your enemies are is all that move the needle. If you wanted me to get fired from my remote job so a Pfizer exec could buy another yacht you're my enemy. I will vote accordingly.

[Edited on October 26, 2022 at 3:49 PM. Reason : A]

10/26/2022 3:47:08 PM

UJustWait84
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TIL you can only catch COVID once when unvaccinated. Oh, and long COVID doesn't happen either to unvaccinated people, apparently.

10/26/2022 4:01:58 PM

CaelNCSU
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The majority of unvaccinated I know have not had it more than once, though there are exceptions. The conspiracy theory being your immune system is wrecked and you'll be dead soon.

This thread is about the political feasibility of putting you in a camp and not really about the sniffles.

[Edited on October 26, 2022 at 4:09 PM. Reason : A]

10/26/2022 4:06:45 PM

Bullet
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10/26/2022 4:48:15 PM

TreeTwista10
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this is not the first time the guy has specifically mentioned "a Pfizer exec buying a new yacht." seems to be an obsession of his. i guess that's one of the boomer boogeyman that he's latched onto, in an effort to feel oppressed.

10/26/2022 5:21:22 PM

thegoodlife3
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imagine being skeptical of the covid vaccine in October of 2022

he must really, really get off by shitposting

10/26/2022 5:54:31 PM

UJustWait84
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I'm happy he moved to Florida. Sounds way more his speed.

10/26/2022 6:22:38 PM

CaelNCSU
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https://babylonbee.com/news/fda-says-pfizer-vaccine-is-harmless-to-humans-covid

Man I really wanted this thread to be more about the removal of democracy so we can put all of you in Pfizer work camps.

10/26/2022 6:27:12 PM

UJustWait84
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You do realize the vaccine was and still is free, right?

Sorry you have no empathy or concern for your fellow man. Hopefully your part of the state doesn't ever get hit by a hurricane, because I'll pity your neighbors when you refuse to help anyone but yourself.

10/26/2022 6:31:20 PM

CaelNCSU
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Are you trolling? Pfizer made more money on covid vaccines than any drug ever. That's not free, it came from the trillions in printed money, taxes, and QE given to the stock market.

In addition, the government purchased millions of doses for other countries that went in landfills. Easily the most egregious waste, fraud and money laundering in history.

10/26/2022 7:19:42 PM

The Coz
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Quote :
"If you wanted me to get fired from my remote job so a Pfizer exec could buy another yacht you're my enemy."

Yes, I did want you to get fired, but mainly I wanted you to be honest and say you were never getting vaccinated under any circumstances and to explain your justification other than just being a selfish asshole. Instead you tried to claim you were waiting on full FDA approval and various other delay tactics which have come and gone. What's the latest excuse? It never worked -- ignoring all available evidence regarding effectiveness?

Florida sucks, BTW. Enjoy your high insurance premiums, murderous wildlife, year-round ball sweat, and dueling autocrats.

10/26/2022 7:20:27 PM

CaelNCSU
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I moved away in May of 2020 to a rural area. As stated through the mRNA vax wars I had zero risk of transmitting it. As it became apparent it didn't stop transmission and the IFR wasn't 1% for anyone but 80 year olds why get it? I didn't regularly see people until May of this year.

I've done hundreds of BASE jumps, thousands of skydives and have almost 1000 hours of flight time in small planes. I was more than comfortable with a 2 in 100,000 risk of death and slightly higher risk if long covid was real.

10/26/2022 7:54:56 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"Are you trolling? Pfizer made more money on covid vaccines than any drug ever. That's not free, it came from the trillions in printed money, taxes, and QE given to the stock market. "


TIL: people get to individually dictate how tax dollars are spent, however they see fit.

And LOL at long COVID not being 'real'

Please, oh please mr. cartoonish, Monopoly man caricature: stay in Florida, DO NOT PASS GO, and do not have any more children.

Quote :
"Yes, I did want you to get fired"


I did too, but you said it first



[Edited on October 26, 2022 at 8:18 PM. Reason : FINALLY, I get to call someone a temporarily embarrassed BILLIONAIRE!]

10/26/2022 8:08:54 PM

thegoodlife3
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dude posted a link to the Babylon Bee

man

10/26/2022 8:39:32 PM

CaelNCSU
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Now that we got that out of the way. Yarvin's writing is influenced by Thomas Carlyle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Carlyle. This book list from @pmarca https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1577366650763956226 has other books, "The Machiavellians" being the most notable.

Quote :
"In the last analysis, therefore, the stability of any political organism depends on the level of morality, intelligence and activity that this second stratum has attained.… Any intellectual or moral deficiencies in this second stratum, accordingly, represent a graver danger to the political structure, and one that is harder to repair, than the presence of similar deficiencies in the few dozen persons who control the workings of the state machine.…”"



Quote :
"Once they slaughtered and persecuted over the interpretation of a dogma, or of a passage in the Bible. Then they slaughtered and persecuted in order to inaugurate the kingdom of liberty, equality and fraternity. Today they are slaughtering and persecuting and fiendishly torturing each other in the name of other creeds. Perhaps tomorrow they will slaughter and torment each other in an effort to banish the last trace of violence and injustice from the earth!” "


In essence the ruling class becomes decadent and incompetent. Members of the new ruling class use political will from the frustrated masses to overthrow the past order. It won't be Trump but the ingredients are certainly there for a big upheaval. If Vance and Masters win we are probably in for some shit.

10/26/2022 8:48:27 PM

CaelNCSU
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Man yeah, remember when the Onion had satire this good: https://babylonbee.com/news/marlboro-to-offer-free-carton-of-cigarettes-with-proof-of-vaccination

https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-proposes-2-trillion-bill-to-study-whats-causing-inflation-to-rise

[Edited on October 26, 2022 at 8:53 PM. Reason : A]

10/26/2022 8:50:45 PM

thegoodlife3
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at least the Onion isn’t transphobic and a horribly watered down bargain bin version of itself

10/26/2022 9:06:03 PM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"Members of the new ruling class use political will from the frustrated masses to overthrow the past order."


To overthrow the past order for how long? The frustrated masses are just gonna be cool with some tech cucks running everything?

10/26/2022 10:59:52 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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What if we end up with Goddess Empress AOC for life?

10/27/2022 10:40:40 AM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"Thomas Carlyle"


You just tried to bring up Thomas Carlyle on The Wolf Web.

Let me fix this for you. Democrats good, Rethuglicans bad. Trying to explain any nuance beyond that is a lost cause.

We must destroy Democracy before Orange Hitler gets elected and destroys Democracy.

10/30/2022 3:20:08 PM

The Coz
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And how do we do that?

10/30/2022 3:23:46 PM

d357r0y3r
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You don't.

You simply accept that we've never had democracy, we're never going to have democracy, and even if we did have democracy, it would be really bad. When a person whines about Muh Sacred Democracy is under attack, it tells me they're completely clueless and don't know basic facts about the world they exist in.

The bottom quartile of American adults are too stupid to run a lemonade stand. The average American could run a lemonade stand, but not well. The idea that they could somehow select and then vote for competent leaders is absurd. They wouldn't even know what competent leadership looks like. They're also gullible and superficial, so if some guy is funny or has a nice haircut, they'll pattern match that to "good leader." Trump's election was a weird case of people not being able to tell the difference anymore between television and reality, and that's probably by design.

Thomas Carlyle w/ Great Man theory, and then the Italian elite theorists, settled on the idea that civilization really can't be run by regular people. You need an elite class that can manage the complexity of it all. Whether you think that's right or wrong, it simply is true that the world works this way. Voting is more of a suggestion box.

[Edited on October 30, 2022 at 3:41 PM. Reason : ]

10/30/2022 3:41:25 PM

PackMan2003
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I get a feeling we’re about to get into lobster level bullshit here.

10/30/2022 3:58:36 PM

The Coz
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^^Donald Trump sure had a nice haircut.

But I agree that people are too stupid. Technocracy would be OK with me if the leaders could act altruistically and there were appropriate safeguards and checks and balances in place.

None of that means I'm OK with what Republicans are attempting to do in the current system.

10/30/2022 4:42:19 PM

PackMan2003
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The systems that produce the stupid people should be perpetuated because of stupid people.

10/30/2022 4:59:06 PM

The Coz
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"Sounds like we can't trust the white man. . ."

"You bet we can't!"

10/30/2022 5:04:59 PM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"But I agree that people are too stupid. Technocracy would be OK with me if the leaders could act altruistically and there were appropriate safeguards and checks and balances in place."


Leaders don't (and will never) act altruistically, because people don't act altruistically. Best you can do is hold leaders accountable and make sure they have good incentives, and even doing that is borderline impossible.

Safeguards and check/balances are all fake. We have a constitution and laws, and those can all be ignored or invalidated for arbitrary reasons at any time.

Every society, at every time, had people who were above the law, often explicitly.

10/30/2022 6:27:10 PM

PackMan2003
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Not sure what you’re trying to say. Hierarchical systems result in uneducated people.

10/30/2022 6:32:55 PM

thegoodlife3
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is it a good thing or a bad thing that someone’s wiki page that was linked to earlier has a subsection titled,

“Controversies

Racism and antisemitism”??

[Edited on October 30, 2022 at 8:30 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2022 8:30:25 PM

d357r0y3r
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Wow man, good point, didn't even think of that. A political theorist from the 1700s had some beliefs that are pretty offensive by 2022 standards. Guess we should close this line of inquiry and load up another episode of The Colbert Report to ward off any wrongthink.

Probably also shouldn't go down the rabbit hole where we take a look at some progressive heroes of the past who had problematic views, because that would mean that people and history are complicated, and then we'd need to develop the ability to process ideas independently.

10/31/2022 12:32:23 AM

StTexan
All American
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I see what you did there

10/31/2022 12:40:06 AM

PackMan2003
All American
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I'm interesting in learning more about a society run by elites where the majority are too dumb to even run a lemonade stand.

10/31/2022 9:59:26 AM

d357r0y3r
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You're living in one.

10/31/2022 10:37:34 AM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" A political theorist from the 1700s had some beliefs that are pretty offensive by 2022 standards. "


1800’s

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Carlyle#Racism_and_antisemitism

there’s a lot there, and it’s way more than “pretty offensive by 2022 standards”

he was a Nazi icon, for fucks sake

[Edited on October 31, 2022 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

10/31/2022 10:51:20 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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Hey guys, this Adolf Hitler fella had some pretty neat thoughts on the futility of democracy. Y'all should check him out sometime.

10/31/2022 3:49:58 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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^
Just found out about him!

10/31/2022 7:15:17 PM

CaelNCSU
All American
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Quote :
"he was a Nazi icon, for fucks sake
"


Hitler wore khakis too. My most extreme view is Dockers need to be abolished.

11/1/2022 7:41:30 AM

PackMan2003
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He put his khakis on one leg at a time and led his country of Übermensch to do great (?) things.

11/1/2022 8:56:04 AM

The Coz
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This kind of content provides some temporary bemusement and simultaneous alarm:

11/2/2022 8:50:03 AM

marko
Tom Joad
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This is gonna be way worse than 2016. It's all gonna completely break.

11/2/2022 10:20:44 AM

The Coz
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What is? Are you referring to the election mechanics, the outcome, or what will happen if / when Republicans take congressional power?

11/2/2022 1:13:51 PM

marko
Tom Joad
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All of it.

11/2/2022 3:00:13 PM

PackMan2003
All American
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Think about how safe you’ll feel in the police state.

11/2/2022 7:53:55 PM

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