The only thing I can think of that would compare would be a wall tent (Cabelas or Montana Canvas)

I think they save you a little bit of money but you would have to deal with that heavy ass canvas.

hold up, just found these on Cabelas

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=735044&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D732409%26WT.tsrc%3DCSE%26WT.mc_id%3DGoogleBaseUSA%26WT.z_mc_id1%3D732409%26rid%3D40%26mr%3AtrackingCode%3D5935457D-E08E-DF11-A0C8-002219318F67%26mr%3AreferralID%3DNA&WTz_l=YMAL%3BIK-513987

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=727636&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D735044%26destination%3D%252Fcatalog%252Fproduct.jsp%253FproductId%253D732409%2526WT.tsrc%253DCSE%2526WT.mc_id%253DGoogleBaseUSA%2526WT.z_mc_id1%253D732409%2526rid%253D40%2526mr%253AtrackingCode%253D5935457D-E08E-DF11-A0C8-002219318F67%2526mr%253AreferralID%253DNA%26WTz_l%3DYMAL%253BIK-513987&WTz_l=YMAL%3BIK-514192

[Edited on August 8, 2011 at 2:04 PM. Reason : links]

[Edited on August 8, 2011 at 2:04 PM. Reason : sorry about those long ass links]

8/8/2011 2:02:33 PM

Quote :

"Simmer down. I'm not set on it at all, that is still a LOT of money. I know I'd like a Kifaru Tipi, I like the stove option etc . . . I just don't know that I want it $1500 worth, which is why I'm looking for opinions."

hah, i couldn't care less if you spent $1500 on a floorless shelter (with a stove, of course...it's only $1000 plus tax and shipping without the stove)

more to the point, i don't think anyone knows what you're asking for given your responses

you love kifaru because you trust their quality, warranty, and customer service, but spending $1500 on peace of mind is something you'd like to avoid?

even then, their warranty is no better than anyone else's (the usual defects in workmanship/materials, not normal wear and tear), so you must ONLY be concerned with the customer service...buying something from REI essentially gives you a lifetime warranty and local customer service (though i don't know what they offer in the way of 6+ man shelters)...so what is their real advantage? you think their silnylon will hold up better than another company's silnylon, a company with a good track record and customer service?

the cabela's TerdFerguson posted are lighter than canvas, but not by much...probably because they're huge

what is it you actually WANT? you don't want ultralight, so i guess canvas? not canvas or ultralight? what's left? middle-of-the-road-light? you want something you can put a stove in? you can put a stove in anything you want...heat sources in something that melts seems like a bad idea to me no matter how much it costs

8/8/2011 2:16:58 PM

Quote :

"i don't think anyone knows what you're asking for given your responses"

Hah, fair enough.

What I envision using it for is the times buddies of mine and I will go camping and/or hunting in the winter and we usually backpack in about 5 or 6 miles then set up a base camp and move out from there. So, a Cabela's tent is more weight than I want to carry, but I'm not looking at covering 20 miles a day for a week long trip so I don't need an ultralight (I've got an REI 1/4 dome that weighs <4lbs for that).

So that leaves me looking at Kifaru and TiGoat but I'm sure there are a few others. I've heard mixed reviews from TiGoat and, yes REI has fantastic service but, no, they don't sell anything quite like that. As far as the heat source goes, the Kifaru tents are designed for the stove that comes with them and they seem to work well in reviews I've read.

comma however

The reviews being almost universally good, I'm sure someone has had a bad experience. Humans are prone to confirmation bias and a lot of people out there don't want to admit that the $1500 they shelled out on a tarp with a hot-box in it turned out to be a shittastic misadventure. SO, what I'm really looking for is reasons why I shouldn't buy it or people who liked the idea in theory but not in practice. I realize that TWW isn't the target market for Kifaru but it doesn't cost me anything to ask just in case

8/8/2011 3:43:13 PM

Hi all!
I need some advice - I want to take my 5 club officers on a team building experience in Raleigh. They voted for hiking. We need a trail that is moderately easy and pretty that would allow for some team building activity breaks.

Any advice at all? I know it's going to be hot so I really am nervous about this!

The five officers consist of one girl who is probably 230 lbs and one diabetic. Help!

8/10/2011 7:37:40 PM

umstead?

8/10/2011 8:18:43 PM

looks like we won't be doing mt. mitchell next weekend

http://www.mountainx.com/blogwire/2011/forest_service_closes_trails_in_yancey_county_owing_to_bear_activity

Quote :

"The USDA Forest Service National Forests in North Carolina today announced the closure of four trails on the Appalachian Ranger District because of a number of recent human encounters with bears. This closure is in effect until further notice. About a half-dozen bear encounters have been reported in less than a week in the area of Commissary Ridge near Mount Mitchell in Yancey County. Since public safety is the top priority at the Forest Service, the agency has decided to close four trails and related areas to camping. The following areas are temporarily closed: Buncombe Horse Trail- from Forest Service Road 472 to the intersection the Big Tom Gap trail (TR 1918) Mt. Mitchell Trail - from Black Mountain Camp Ground to Mount Mitchell State Park Mountain to Sea Trail- From State Hwy. 128 to Black Mountain Camp Ground Higgins Bald Trail (TR 1908) The closure is intended to provide for public safety by reducing human/bear interaction. Visitors to the national forests are encouraged to practice the following safety measures to reduce bear encounters: Make noise to avoid surprising a bear. Never approach a bear or other wild animal. Do not hike in the dark. Carry EPA registered bear pepper spray. Keep a clean camp site by properly disposing of food scraps and garbage. Do not leave food or garbage inside fire rings, grills or around your site. Never leave food or coolers unattended, even in developed picnic areas. If bear-proof containers are not available, store food and garbage inside a hard-top vehicle or trailer. Never store food inside of a tent. Wipe tabletops clean before vacating a camp or picnic site. If a bear is observed nearby, pack up your food and trash immediately and vacate the area as soon as possible. For more tips on bear safety, visit: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/outdoorsafety/wildlife.php The Forest Service closures coincide with the closure of Mount Mitchell Trail and Commissary Ridge trail in Mount Mitchell State Park because of the increased bear activity. For more information on the Forest Service closures, contact the Appalachian Ranger District office at 828-682-6146."

8/10/2011 8:44:07 PM

Quote :

"Hi all! I need some advice - I want to take my 5 club officers on a team building experience in Raleigh. They voted for hiking. We need a trail that is moderately easy and pretty that would allow for some team building activity breaks. Any advice at all? I know it's going to be hot so I really am nervous about this! The five officers consist of one girl who is probably 230 lbs and one diabetic. Help!"

Umstead Park "Company Mill" trail or Falls Lake "Blue Jay County Park" trail. Company Mill has more to see (the old mill site & dam, boulders, etc.), but it will be more crowded. You'll encounter less other people at Falls Lake. The full ~6 mile trip on either might be pushing the limits too far on the 230 lb girl, so you might want to shorten them.

8/10/2011 11:53:37 PM

So, I spent 5 nights in a hammock under a tarp during Transformus and it worked pretty great. I'm thinking of doing the same things at Alchemy coming up at the end of September, but 1) I would really like some sort of mosquito net rigging and 2) I just used 2 big fuzzy blankets to sleep in and they kept me warm (I think it got down in the 60s at night), so I would love some suggestions for both. I haven't read through the whole thread yet but what are some peoples opinions on the different hammocks out there? And how to keep warm in them and keep bugs and rain off?

8/11/2011 12:36:59 AM

What kind of hammock did you use? I've toyed around with this idea over the years, but I imagine multiple nights in one would royally fuck my back up.

8/11/2011 12:43:00 AM

Grand trunk... and I was definitely not in love with it-- has a tendency to stretch a bit, and for some reason was harder to lay flat in than my old one. My neck was a little stiff but nothing too bad.

I used to have a Hammock bliss w/ a mosquito net built in and I loved it. You lay flat by laying diagonal in it. I think I left it on a rock in california tho


[Edited on August 11, 2011 at 12:50 AM. Reason : f]

8/11/2011 12:50:06 AM

Quote :

"looks like we won't be doing mt. mitchell next weekend "

Bummer! One of my favorite bear encounters ever happened at commissary ridge, they are definitely thick up there. I used to hit up that spot solo 2-3 times a year, it is an awesome campsite.

If you wanna make the most of mt mitchell whenever you do go, make sure you hike Celo Knob from the Bolens creek side. I have done that 3 times, and I would put it up against any other hiking trail climb in the east. It is brutal, i think it has 3000 feel of elevation gain in 4 miles or something like that.

8/11/2011 7:55:00 AM

^ yeah, definitely disappointed

our original thought was to drive up to the park on friday and do commissary ridge, mt. mitchell trail to the summit (1000ft over 2 miles), black mountain crest trail to deep gap for saturday night, retrace black mountain crest to the old mitchell trail back to the lot (about 16 miles round trip)

not the most exciting trip (i hate in-and-out!), but the crest trail is supposed to have amazing views (4+ peaks at 6000+ feet?)...it's funny that i've never been to mt. mitchell before

we talked about celo knob, but we wanted to get 2 nights in (can't leave friday until 3pm) and we need to be back in raleigh by 6pm on sunday...we have a whopping 11 people going on this trip

i think we're going to change it out and do wilson creek, instead (about 17 miles round trip)

[Edited on August 11, 2011 at 8:25 AM. Reason : .]

8/11/2011 8:23:16 AM

Every time someone says Wilson Creek in this thread it makes me jealous. Probably my favorite place in all of NC.

8/11/2011 11:01:54 AM

Wilson Creek

8/11/2011 11:07:22 AM

Jerk.

8/11/2011 11:10:04 AM

One of my favorite Wilson creek loops. Real easy to get lost too and it floods. Makes it exciting.

8/11/2011 11:12:42 AM

^ i assume it's not one of these, then?

http://www.friendsofwilsoncreek.org/aboutus.asp?id06=55

is this the same trail with some highlighting?



[Edited on August 11, 2011 at 2:48 PM. Reason : map]

8/11/2011 2:45:26 PM

also, has anyone tried out one of off-road/backcountry GPS apps for android?

looking at trimble outdoors, backcountry, and maverick specifically...thinking about taking my thunderbolt with me in GPS-only mode and seeing how long it lasts

8/11/2011 3:46:18 PM

It's #260 and #277

Quote :

"One of my favorite Wilson creek loops. Real easy to get lost too and it floods. Makes it exciting. "

lolololol

friend and I got lost there our first time and wandered into that private land going west on 277. To get back to #260 from #277, follow the gravel road, take the first right, find the trailer, go down the hill and #260 will be across the stream.

8/11/2011 5:34:15 PM

^^^ YES that's it! I didn't have a GPS the first time and we got lost using only that map. So many fucking creek crossings. I now have a Garmin and will map it next time I go but that looks exactly it.

8/11/2011 5:36:14 PM

Patagonia 50% off sale going on right now until the 25th. Some crazy good deals on Capilene. Sadly, everyone and their grandfather seems to be a size medium so I only nabbed the Cap 3 zip up and crew. I'll keep and eye on it and hopefully get a Cap 2 crew and bottoms and some Cap 3 bottoms which were all sold out by the time I found what I wanted but I am hoping for a restock or some returns.

8/16/2011 6:07:16 PM

clif bars for $0.71/each after tax (mint chocolate chip, white chocolate macadamia, banana nut bread, blueberry crisp, chocolate brownie, oatmeal walnut, chocolate chip, peanut butter, and peanut butter chocolate chip) if you buy them from bed, bath, and beyond (go figure) and use this coupon: http://www.upromise.com/pdfs/080530-BBB-coupon.pdf

sure, it expired in 2008, but they don't care...you could use a $5 off $15 coupon if you have it, but i didn't

8/17/2011 6:55:41 PM

Not bad. They're almost a $1 a piece at Cosco.

8/17/2011 8:57:22 PM

speaking of thermals, the first ascent (eddie bauer) baselayers are super awesome & breathable...and EB puts them on super discount at the end of the winter. we got tops & bottoms for $5 each last time (reg $50). they don't have all of them on the website right now, but will later in the year. we got to use them for real for the first time in CO last month. they weigh almost nothing too.

8/17/2011 9:10:53 PM

Alright, now that the summer heat is abating I'm thinking about my first fall trip.

The husband has never been camping before ( ) so I want to do something close. That way if he just really hates it we can pack up and be home relatively quickly lol.

I was thinking Falls Lake unless someone knows something better an hour or two from here.

8/17/2011 9:38:53 PM

^^ Thanks for the tip! I'll sign up for their e-mails so hopefully I can snag some deals.

8/17/2011 9:59:32 PM

^^ if you can stretch that a bit, hanging rock is less than 2.5 hours away (about 2 hours and 15 minutes)...plenty of "car camping" spots, beautiful views

8/17/2011 10:21:09 PM

Damn really? I always assumed it was a lot farther away than that. Is there decent hiking and fishing near the campsites? Personally I love hiking in to a campsite but something tells me I should limit it to a 15 minute walk from the car max this go

8/17/2011 10:23:33 PM

^^^i might check out the outlet store in smithfield on friday. they haven't had any FA stuff in the past, but FA has only been out a couple of years & i still have hope. i'll let you know if i find anything (if i go).

8/17/2011 10:46:03 PM

^^ I was at Hanging Rock a few weekends ago, and it being 2-3 hours away from Raleigh is accurate. From the campsite in the park there was access to a trail which took you to several of the other ones, including the one to the top of Hanging Rock and one around the nearby lake.

Also Pilot Mountain isn't too far if you decide you want to go somewhere else.

8/17/2011 11:54:49 PM

definitely recommend hanging rock. drive-up campsites too...great for a first time camper.

8/22/2011 4:49:31 PM

Oh damn, I just thought of something. Looking at Irene's current track it's due to hit all the NOBOs from NH, Vermont and Maine. Did any of you thru-hikers encounter a tropical system during your time?

8/24/2011 6:54:51 PM

I've got a friend getting married on Labor Day weekend near Nags Head and so our plan was to drive up that day and then camp the night. Unfortunately, being it Labor Day weekend, all the group sites are taken up and I doubt we'll find any open spaces on the day of. And ideas on camping between the OBX and Raleigh for 8 people?

8/25/2011 8:28:37 AM

any recommended hikes in NC for a newbie hiker? Going with 2 others, one I know has hiked before.

Looking for 1 or 2 nights in the tent, backpacking..........

would prefer a 'loop' but a double-back trail would be OK

8/25/2011 12:42:06 PM

If you're in Raleigh, Uwharrie national forest is pretty close and has an easy loop you can do with a night in the woods.

^^^Everyone is going to know it's coming and there are tons of places to zero in NE. I'm sure some dummies will try to hike in the storm, but it's not like it's going to catch anyone off guard on a mountain somewhere. I'm sure some of the stream crossings will be fun if they end up getting a ton of rain.

8/25/2011 1:44:39 PM

Right, I am sure most everyone knows about it coming. Sounds like a good day to chill inside and do laundry to me!

8/25/2011 3:11:33 PM

Any suggestions for a mountain trip? Wouldn't mine some incline and scenery...........

8/25/2011 3:30:53 PM

If you're looking for an incline I can suggest Linville Gorge. Last time I was there we went to Babel Tower (http://www.trailheadfinder.com/trail_editor/show/695). You can also continue driving down Old Hwy 105 and find an awesome view of what I believe is Lake James

8/25/2011 9:57:32 PM

Hitting up Wilson Creek tomorrow. We're not exactly sure where we want to go this time. My friend really wants to do the Wilson Ridge trail, but we'd have to drop a car off at one end and drive up to the other end, and that's a pain. Might do a long loop involving harper's creek/n. harpers creek/ raider camp creek trails.

9/2/2011 4:55:46 PM

Need a weekend Trail suggestion!

The boyfriend is in Carlisle, PA for the next 8 weeks directing the AT Mid-Atlantic Volunteer Crew...and we want to meet at a halfway point for a weekend for backpacking. I was thinking central VA area. Are there any good trails/areas around the Richmond area?

9/6/2011 9:23:04 AM

My family (myself, wife, 5 y/o and 6 y/o boys) want to go camping in the next few months.

My wife and I haven't been since we were kids, so we're pretty vanilla, and we want to make it fun and not too gross for our boys.

We are thinking about doing it at the KOA campground in Williamsburg. We live in Newport News, and figure if there are any issues, we can just go home quickly.

It is something we'd like to see if the boys will want to do later as they get older, and we'll be letting them join the Cub Scouts this school year.

So...with that, I'd like to get some recommendations for vanilla-type tents. We're thinking about a 6-person so we have enough room for our crap.

The boys have some CARS sleeping bags, and I've got a really good sleeping bag I had to get when I went to Korea for the winter, so my wife will need one, too...but again...vanilla.

Anyway...there you go...any recommendations on the tent?

9/10/2011 1:28:20 PM

I don't personally have experience with this tent, but it's 4.5 stars after 134 reviews at REI (and is currently on sale). http://www.rei.com/product/777768/rei-kingdom-6-tent


If you have one near you, I'd suggest heading there. REI also rents camping equipment, so you could try out a tent/sleeping bag before deciding whether to buy it. They have a 100% guarantee policy, so if you aren't satisfied with the tent, you can bring it back for an exchange/refund with no hassle. A lifetime membership is $20, and well worth it if you plan to go camping often in the future. I <3 my REI, especially during sale time.

9/10/2011 2:37:39 PM

when you say vanilla, i think no style. you're looking for camping gear with no style? i am confused.

[Edited on September 10, 2011 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2011 3:29:20 PM

what are some thing i should consider in this situation concerning backpacking:

so going fishing in october 6 just outside Brevar with a group of about 10. I dont know what temperature it will be, but we have a cottage rented out and I reserved early enough to get a bed. However, would I be crazy to want to bring my tent and spend a night or two in it, never having been in a tent before? From another thread it was recommended that I get a sleeping bag and some sort of thermal mat. But am i better off just keeping the bed the whole four days?

The length of the daytime we will be hiking and fishing, driving to certain locations and spending the day there. We are trying to get to remote locations so im guessing hikes of a few miles. how should i pack foods, the best ways to keep them cold, and the sort of boot i would need to hike. Is it better to just wear sneakers or is the ankle support of a good boot better? Also things to consider would be blisters, the amount of water to carry and how.

I dont want to have to bum off the guys im fishing with so hopefully i can get some good advice. What difference does it make to be caught in a rain storm?

9/10/2011 3:46:43 PM

vanilla = basic

Not something like The North Face 6.

But not Walmart's tent.

9/10/2011 3:47:43 PM

^^
water - camelbaks + water bottles are the best way to carry water. i actually prefer camelbak only, but i know a lot of people would disagree. idk how far you'll go, how far water is, distance b/w water sources, etc but a filter is way easier than carrying shit tons of water. iirc the largest camelbak is 3L, which you can easily go through in <1 day. we like the katadin hiker pro http://www.rei.com/product/720265/katadyn-hiker-pro-water-filter

food - this is all highly dependent on how far/long you'll be carrying it. if it's just a day hike, pack sandwiches or whatever you'd normally want to eat for lunch. i'd avoid packing cold stuff. the other option is dehydrated/freeze-dried food + water + stove.

footwear - entirely up to you, shoe vs boot. i prefer lightweight trail runners in dry conditions in NC mountains. i wear adidas trail response running shoes (wore these on the AT) or vibram kso treks. when we were in colorado at maroon bells wilderness, i wore backpacking boots. a good compromise is those low hikers (although i don't like them). you need to consider if it'll be wet, how rocky, & how steep. most important: make sure your shoes are broken in & carry moleskin even if they are. wear wool socks. FIT (brand name) socks are the awesomest i've found yet. they sell them at great outdoor provision.

sleeping - if you're going to sleep in a tent, you will need a bag & mat. the mat does typically add some R value but it's also for comfort. sleeping on hard ground sucks.

the raleigh & cary REIs rent tents, sleeping bags (ew) & mats, camp stoves, & backpacks.

i don't understand your "what difference does it make to be caught in a rainstorm" thing. if it rains, you may get wet. it's just something you have to take into consideration.

^we have a big agnes big house 6 person tent (plus the giant vestibule & footprint). we've only used it twice but it's a really good tent. plenty of room for the 2 of us (on the ground or on cots), 2 dogs, & shit tons of gear. you could easily put 2 kids in there too. we can easily stand up & have plenty of extra head room (peak height is 6'3" iirc). i like the clear vinyl on the top of the rainfly so you can still see out at night.
http://www.rei.com/product/748026/big-agnes-big-house-6-tent
that rei kingdom tent looks nice too. i've seen it set up in the store.

[Edited on September 10, 2011 at 6:41 PM. Reason : ]

9/10/2011 6:30:37 PM

thanks, the rain thing was mainly concerning getting the boots soaked

can the camel packs fit under the bag?

9/10/2011 6:39:18 PM

it's "camelbak" not camel packs. that's the brand name at least. you can also call them bladders. if by bag you mean backpack, most if not all backpacks have a pouch for a bladder inside right next to your back.

9/10/2011 6:43:01 PM

i appreciate your advice thanks! I guess i can get away with my tennis shoes, i also have both steel and composite toe shoes. im leaning towards the lightweight composite

9/10/2011 6:44:16 PM

of course check the weather before you go. take an extra pair of shoes to keep in the cabin in case those get soaked & don't dry out. wet boots sucks. if it's gonna pour & you're still going to go, get rain pants in addition to a rain jacket. our 2nd day backpacking in colorado was miserable bc of the fucking rain soaked bushes that got everything else wet. next time i will get gaiters too.

9/10/2011 6:46:44 PM