http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1042303.html

Some very interesting points made by Thad Williamson

I must be the first to say that I have lost interest in the casual ACC game since expansion and the current scheduling.

Now there are many factors including the fact that we have sucked since expansion, but, have you all lost interest in ACC basketball as well?

[Edited on January 24, 2011 at 6:23 PM. Reason : sorry in advance for linking IC, but it is a good read]

1/24/2011 6:22:41 PM

Did you even attempt to scan page one of Sports Talk??

1/24/2011 6:25:27 PM

i must be blind, but i don't see anything about it on the first page

1/24/2011 6:56:22 PM

there's an 8 page thread dedicated to things posted on IC...

message_topic.aspx?topic=605225

^ don't act like you didn't know that.

1/24/2011 7:22:45 PM

well yeah obviously, i meant the actual article. i just figured that thread was for bashing and not for things that might actually be considered informative or interesting

1/24/2011 7:25:00 PM

cali_j2004 is dead to me now

1/24/2011 7:26:03 PM

^^ i just assumed it was for all things IC. guess we see that a little differently coming from opposing fan bases.

1/24/2011 7:27:21 PM

the ACC standings are meaningless when the schedules are not identical

that's a fact

1/24/2011 7:33:21 PM

Quote :

"cali_j2004 is dead to me now"

lol.. im sorry


article just happened to be on IC, doesn't really have to do with UNC solely.. and i didnt put it in the IC thread because that is for ripping UNC, and I just wanted some discussion on the state of ACC basketball on a slow day.

back to the topic, i dont like the idea of the "play everyone twice" scenario, that is too much but the division thing is interesting. I am in favor of any scenario that means us, duke, wake, and unc all play twice, i think that is imperative for the tradition of the conference..

I dont really understand why we cant add 2 more league games, the big 10 (12) decided to go forth with this, so hopefully we will follow

[Edited on January 24, 2011 at 7:48 PM. Reason : ]

1/24/2011 7:45:54 PM

it's a good article, and the 2nd scenario certainly makes sense, but i refuse to believe that conference expansion is the reason acc basketball (as a whole) has shit the bed recently. you've got shitty coaches at the majority of the schools, and therefore shitty talent, which doesn't lend itself to quality basketball

1/24/2011 8:02:26 PM

^yea it guess it does all boil down to the quality, and it is just terrible right now..

i wouldnt even think of watching a game like BC vs. Miami right now, but that is mainly because the quality sucks.

The coaches are terrible for the most part..

there is K, then Roy (arguably after the last 2 years), Gary.. and then either young coaches or crappy ones

I do miss the days for instance

2004-5 Season Week 5 rankings:

ESPN/USA Today Coaches Poll
RK TEAM RECORD PTS
1 Illinois (21) 9-0 762
2 Kansas (6) 6-0 746
3 Georgia Tech (2) 6-0 709
4 Oklahoma State (2) 7-0 677
5 Wake Forest 6-1 616
6 North Carolina 7-1 605
7 Duke 6-0 599
8 Syracuse 8-1 509
9 N.C. State 7-0 486
10 Pittsburgh 7-0 479
11 Kentucky 6-1 451
12 Texas 6-1 410
13 Connecticut 4-1 407
14 Louisville 5-1 338
15 Alabama 8-1 290
16 Arizona 6-2 286
17 Cincinnati 6-0 263
18 Michigan State 5-2 220
19 Maryland 5-2 212
20 Washington 7-1 191
21 Iowa 8-1 170
22 Geo Washington 6-1 137
23 Virginia 7-1 106
24 Mississippi St. 7-2 98
25 Marquette 9-0 94

[Edited on January 24, 2011 at 8:12 PM. Reason : had to put our highest weekly rating under herbert (before brutal wash loss)]

1/24/2011 8:11:07 PM

isn't it a little silly for a UNC guy to write this article while their team is still not that good

1/24/2011 8:28:23 PM

I agree with the article that SOMETHING needs to be done to improve ACC basketball, and I like the idea of going to an 18 game conference schedule as a start. Not sure if I buy his "three divisions" idea and the changes to the tournament, but adding 2 conference games to allow for more home-and-homes and balance out schedule strengths is a no-brainer.

And while Swofford will swear that expansion wasn't a mistake (an opinion I absolutely disagree with), it's time to at least make some tweaks to how it's been implemented - and basketball should be the first sport addressed. I'd be surprised if they don't look into making some changes here in the near future

Oh, and I agree that quality of teams is definitely an issue too, I just think it's not the only one. You're never going to have 12 good-to-great teams in a conference, so figuring out how to best balance the competition and support rivalries is always going to be necessary.

[Edited on January 24, 2011 at 9:19 PM. Reason : .]

1/24/2011 9:14:32 PM

i agree, i'm just saying that conference expansion didn't cause wake, maryland, georgia tech, etc to start sucking shit. i don't think we need to 12 good to great teams, but there's no reason we can't have 4, 5, or 6 teams in the top 25. teams like state, maryland, georgia tech, and wake have good history, so it's not like they can't sell that to recruits. until the coaching improves, the acc will continue to dull in comparison to other conferences, and that's a damn shame

and hell i'll tack on unc to the list. roy hasn't earned his paycheck the last season and a half, that's for sure

[Edited on January 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/24/2011 10:08:24 PM

Quote :

"The first proposal is this: restore a true home-and-home league conference season, while at the same time abolishing the ACC Tournament."

Fucking retarded UNC fans. This guy is a joke.

1/24/2011 10:11:09 PM

i cant take anyone who says to abolish the acc tournament seriously

1/24/2011 11:12:55 PM

i cant take anyone who says to abolish the acc tournament seriously

1/24/2011 11:31:35 PM

Did Roy Williams ghostwrite that article?

1/25/2011 12:43:47 AM

Quote :

"abolish the acc tournament"

Wow what a terrible idea. I would like to see us play UNC, Duke, and Wake twice a year as was tradition.

As for ACC basketball as a whole, the coaching is the biggest problem. Too many worthless coaches at most of the schools. Regardless of how shitty the teams are, I like watching pretty much any ACC game because the intensity is still there (unless WF is playing).




[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 8:17 AM. Reason : kl]

1/25/2011 8:16:53 AM

The quality is down this year because the acc put like 20 guys in the nba last year, everyone knew this was a rebuilding year for the conference, we were the toughest league in the country last year.


Also expansion has made basketball more of an afterthought. I used to watch most acc games. Now I only watch state, unc, and sometimes duke. Why the hell would I ever watch miami-clemson I hate that we ruined round robin basketball just for the sake of being a shitty college football conference.

But at least we have a football championship now which makes the season at least a little bit fun to keep up with

1/25/2011 9:14:22 AM

Expansion has ruined football and basketball. I don't care about it as much as I did before. I used to watch any game, now I watch pretty much just watch State and a handful of games here and there. Expansion doesn't explain the shitty coaches, but to me it has taken away some of the excitement.

1/25/2011 9:30:10 AM

Quote :

"we were the toughest league in the country last year."

huh?

1/25/2011 11:08:04 AM

5 titles in the last 10 years

suck on that, Big East

1/25/2011 11:11:26 AM

I kind of like his 2nd option.

And it's crazy how disinterested I am in ACC basketball now. Growing up from middles school to maybe about 3/4 years ago I could tell you every team's starting five and usually their first couple guys off the bench. I would also watch pretty much every ACC game that was on.

As rally said earlier, now I pretty much only watch State, UNC, and the occasional Duke game.

1/25/2011 11:29:17 AM

totally agree with ^ and ^^^^

I think the ACC rep on a national level is down the last couple of years because of coaching and talent, and fan interest within the ACC is down because of expansion and crappy match-ups. Just not a good time to be an ACC basketball fan. Hopefully that will change within the next year or two as the young teams we have now mature and get better.

I also think that this trend isn't only an issue in the ACC - college basketball more broadly is suffering from top players consistently leaving early. 15 years ago it was only really the top juniors and maybe a few freshmen/sophomores who would declare for the draft - now we have basically all of the top 40 to 50 college prospects declaring every year, almost regardless of their class. I initially thought the NBA's 19 year-old rule would help college ball, but I'm not so sure anymore. While it's good to have better talent in the freshman classes, the high turnover rate hurts continuity. I dunno. Alright, I'll stop rambling...

1/25/2011 1:50:38 PM

and I agree with this ^.

NBA expansion and collegiate conference expansion might be what's killing it for me..... maybe it's that we've been irrelevant for so long now.... I'm not sure, but the apathy has start to set in for me the last few years. I end up DVR'ing our own games half the time, and that's completely unlike me.

As far as keeping up with the conference as a whole --- There are very few of those players you "love to hate" anymore because it seems like they've been in the ACC for 7 years, shatting on your favorite team every chance they get. The turnover is insane comparatively, as Spooner just said. I think until college basketball and the NBA move toward a system more like college baseball, it's going to continue trending this way.

[Edited on January 25, 2011 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2011 2:23:22 PM

We've gone from 72 to 96 conference games, and I agree thats its more of a chore than a pleasure to keep up with all the rosters anymore. When I see BC playing VT, it still doesn't feel like an ACC game, even seven years later.

1/25/2011 2:59:06 PM

The ACC's Round Robin bball scheduling was pretty amazing. It made everything about bball season better. Equal conference SOS, and when you lost to a team, you knew that there was a chance to redeem that loss later in the season. Now the ACC is too big for a RR, and it's killed basketball.


It would also be a different world if other ACC fanbases cared about bball. Even if a team is shitty, having a fanbase that cares makes a world of difference. What State fan wants to lose to ECU in basketball? I live on Miami's campus and students barely even know when there is a basketball game because no one cares. How pathetic is watching the crowd at some of these games?

1/25/2011 4:07:15 PM