Discuss

4/20/2019 9:55:06 AM

I wonder how quickly the Republicans would be calling for impeachment if you replaced Donald's name with Hillary in the Mueller Report....

4/20/2019 10:12:57 AM

A mistake at this point.

4/20/2019 10:52:59 AM

Barr should be impeached as well

4/20/2019 2:11:15 PM

Impeachment likely costed gore the election

I can’t really see a major downside to impeachment

Possibly the worst thing is republicans in senate will not convict, and trump might use this to prove he was exonerated

But Dems could use this as proof the gop is corrupt and hates Ideals of American government.

On the other hand, I read an article from a constitutional scholar that suggested impeachment is meant to send the message that a president committed a crime that justifies overturning the results of an election, I’d argue it does in this case far more than in Bill Clinton’s case, but that’s the argument the democrats have to make.

4/20/2019 2:54:30 PM

Quote :

"I can’t really see a major downside to impeachment"

Then get your eyes checked. At this point it's pretty much all risk and no reward.

4/20/2019 2:57:57 PM

What’s the risk? If Americans are at the point where pointing out the president’s crimes makes them want to vote for a president even more then we’re far passed being screwed.

Clinton maintained majority approval over the blowiob impeachment because people felt politicians were being petty, but the fact that gore stood by someone who blatantly lied and was seen as part of the corruption, worked against him.

Trump does not now and never has had majority support. The risk is if Democrats can’t execute well, but they have the facts and justice and ethics on their side. If they’re worried they are too incompetent to capitalize on this then trump isn’t even the problem. The problem is entirely the mechanisms that causes democrats to empower weak, self-doubting leadership even when they’re entirely in the right.

If impeachment is warranted this is a fight that should be taken up no matter how difficult.

If impeachment is not warranted then we shouldn’t impeach.

Either way trump and the gop are going to fight to the death, they’ll paint the Democrats as cowards for not impeaching, they’ll pain the democrats as whiny sour grapes if they do impeach.

They’re ALREADY saying Obama was too weak for not unilaterally calling out Russian interference in the election— did Obama do the right thing? If he called this out without McConnell supporting him there was a good argument that he was just trying to influence the election. Now he’s getting attacked.

It really feels like the entire country is being held hostage by the tantrums that might happen if we upset the 30-40% of core trump voters.

4/20/2019 3:29:55 PM

"at this point" is so dumb. If not now, when?

4/20/2019 3:48:55 PM

If we're at the point that Republicans will blatantly ignore laws, ethics, and accountability and Democrats will only hold them accountable when they think its politically expedient and without risk then this republic has already failed and there is no point doing anything expect full rebellion.

Democrats should absolutely start an impeachment inquiry, that's their constitutional responsibility and what the Mueller report calls for. Anything less is direlliction of duty

4/20/2019 5:25:20 PM

Quote :

"What’s the risk? If Americans are at the point where pointing out the president’s crimes makes them want to vote for a president even more then we’re far passed being screwed."

Pointing out the president's crimes != impeachment, and discussing Trump's seemingly infinite failings is a better political conversation to be having than whether or not he should be removed.

Impeachment is political, just like rebellion. You need to hit the streets and convince people of your position.

4/20/2019 6:22:07 PM

...which you do by starting impeachment inquiries

4/20/2019 6:58:30 PM

Quote :

"I can’t really see a major downside to impeachment"

I tend towards thinking they should start impeachment proceedings, but I can see plenty of downsides. It feeds the narrative of Democrats as sore losers who are resorting to harassment to subvert the will of the people and hold onto power. I think that will fire up a large portion of Trump voters who stay with him primarily out of pride and spite.

It will put congressional Democrats from contentious states and districts in another really tough spot. Voting to impeach will go over great in true blue districts but it could be the most divisive decision of an already divisive age in purple and red areas.

Impeachment will eat up news cycles, and that's a valuable commodity at all times, particularly in the run-up to an election. Closer to November 2020, you're going to want to be done with this so the Democratic candidate can get some airtime. In the run-up to 2016, Trump was getting enormous amounts of negative press, but the word "negative" didn't really matter. He was the only one anybody was talking about, and that worked to his advantage.

There's also the fact that at last count a majority of Americans said they were against starting impeachment proceedings. My guess is that new polls will show those numbers closing in on 50/50, but still.

So there most certainly are risks and downsides, particularly since we're entrusting this most powerful legislative weapon against the executive to a Democratic leadership that has been...uh...inconsistent in terms of competence and backbone. I still think it's a risk worth taking, less because it's useful against Trump - obviously impeachment is not going to remove him from office - but as a cudgel to use against Republicans in congressional races. In spite of the risks I mentioned to red state Democratic representatives, I think the potential rewards are likely greater.

What I'm not really taking into account is their "constitutional responsibility" and "duty" to impeach, because an essentially empty gesture won't fix what's wrong with the Republic, but successfully shattering Republican control of the government for a couple of election cycles would be a good start.

4/20/2019 10:27:35 PM

impeachment of Bill Clinton in 1998 was a waste of time and money by republicans, and made them look like idiots.

until 2000 came and the Republicans won* the white house in what should have been a simple victory for the incumbent VP Gore, during a strong peacetime economy.


[Edited on April 20, 2019 at 10:48 PM. Reason : *scotus]

4/20/2019 10:46:11 PM

I think we need to put enormous pressure on Richard Burr. If we can get him to resign soon (if he had integrity he’d resign tomorrow) people, including GOP senators and Dems, will start taking the mueller reports findings more seriously. Bagging a single head will get this process rolling pretty quickly and voter’s reaction will give Dems a better idea what to expect from impeachment.

4/21/2019 9:55:39 AM

Lol Burr is not resigning

4/21/2019 2:57:17 PM

He’s already not running for re-election, he’s in YOLO mode at this point.

4/21/2019 3:21:43 PM

I don't think the impeachment of Clinton cost Gore the election, I don't think he campaigned well or was a great candidate. Clinton left office with 60% approval rating, the impeachment clearly backfired

4/21/2019 4:00:20 PM

impeached for what? there was no russia collusion.

the worst crimes trump commits obama also did the same ones

4/21/2019 5:45:04 PM

Good troll

4/21/2019 7:08:19 PM

^i'm serious

i think we are viewing alternative facts here, wondering what i'm missing

[Edited on April 21, 2019 at 7:29 PM. Reason : s]

4/21/2019 7:28:25 PM

Really great Obama impeachment content on tww

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/boehner-plans-to-file-suit-against-obama-over-alleged-abuse-of-executive-power

4/21/2019 8:30:23 PM

^^ missing actual facts, not feel facts troll

4/21/2019 10:20:56 PM

Impeached for the massive amounts of obstruction of justice the mueller report details over hundreds of pages, including ordering his staff to do illegal things— which is likely still on going.

4/21/2019 10:49:29 PM

Quote :

"i think we are viewing alternative facts here, wondering what i'm missing"

This is so frustrating, and it's prevalent all over the internet.... are you serious? are you being willfully ingorant? are you trolling? have you read the report... or heard any of the summaries of the report that come from any new organization that isn't a trump cheerleader?

Quote :

"the worst crimes trump commits obama also did the same ones"

like what? can you show some comparison (and of course, cite sources?)

[Edited on April 22, 2019 at 10:11 AM. Reason : ]

4/22/2019 10:11:06 AM

https://twitter.com/brithume/status/1120141461025112064?s=21

With good faith attacks like this coming from the right I’m sure Pelosi and Hoyer should cater to the right and not get them riled up by initiating impeachment proceedings.

If we try to understand these good faith attacks they’ll change their ways.

[Edited on April 22, 2019 at 10:21 AM. Reason : X]

4/22/2019 10:21:19 AM

the important thing is to maintain decorum and civility, even if we lose everything at least we can say we kept that

4/22/2019 10:30:37 AM

A lot of my evangelical family doesn't think Catholics are christians... so why are they upset about calling them "Easter Worshippers" instead of "Christians"?

4/22/2019 11:22:41 AM

not even sure why dtownral and NyM410 care what brit hume thinks

4/22/2019 11:23:24 AM

to me it looked like nym was using it as an example of the kind of disingenuous argument that his post was about and not about brit hume specifically, to me

4/22/2019 11:26:04 AM

^^it's lot more than just Brit Hume (and I thought he was one of the more reasonable Fox News people)

4/22/2019 11:31:07 AM

Still, I'm not sure why you'd care what any of those people think. It's all trash. You know it's trash.

Doubly true if twitter is involved.

4/22/2019 11:53:00 AM

The point is, the only argument against impeachment is the right will use that against the left (which, good luck)but the right is ALREADY using it against the left.

The report essentially recommended impeachment and Trump is basically tweeting his abject terror about impeachment. It's really a win win if done well

4/22/2019 12:26:22 PM

That Easter Twitter thread is the dumbest shit.

4/22/2019 12:26:51 PM

The holiday is called Christian, not Easter. Please make sure to say "Christian Sunday", "Christian service", and "Christian worshipers".

4/22/2019 12:35:51 PM

Pelosi sent a letter to Trump saying she wants to (and I’m paraphrasing) work together with him to find the truth instead of going to impeachment proceedings.

It’s probably good to go down this path instead. I’m sure he’ll work with the Democrats to get at the truth.

4/22/2019 1:39:53 PM

Quote :

"The point is, the only argument against impeachment is the right will use that against the left"

No, it's not the only argument.

And that's a really big 'if' in your final sentence (see ^).

4/22/2019 1:54:35 PM

It's the only argument I've seen, and it's more reason than you've cared to put forward in this thread.

4/22/2019 2:04:19 PM

GrumpyGOP has a post with several reasons, to which I would add:

News cycles: Not only will impeachment eat news cycles, those news cycles will be about the drama of the impeachment process and not about the actual reasons for impeachment. It sets up a Dem vs. GOP narrative--with all the attendant false equivalencies--and moves the focus off Trump's manifold failures as a person and President.

Impeachment proceedings can't uncover any new information that can't be uncovered using Congressional oversight powers. House Democrats should continue to pursue Trump's financial records and the unredacted Mueller report.

Impeachment is not going to remove Trump from office. That is unlikely to change. The best chance to remove Trump is at the ballot box, along with a slew of down-ticket Republicans. Losing an election is a far clearer rebuke of Trump and the Republicans, and an ineffectual impeachment attempt is a distraction from that.

4/22/2019 4:48:36 PM

Most of that stuff is about news cycles and narratives, it's a losing battle to control that. Trump is going to command the news cycle like he has pretty much constantly since he started running. He says and does crazy sensational shit that the news media like to cover. Impeachment will force that narrative to constantly include stories that enforce his corruptness and, frankly, lack of strength that a long document simply can't do. Mueller cycle is basically already through and each side has claimed victory. Of course, the Dem victory seems false bc they discuss the crimes he's committed while also saying they are unwilling to prosecute him for those crimes. "if I'm guilty why didn't they impeach me?" Trump loves to play offense, impeachment forces him to be on defense. Trump has been in office for 2.5 years and so much dirt has been uncovered without even really digging.

Quote :

"@onlxn they don’t have to understand it! they’ll just see headlines about the hundreds of things Dems are trying to impeach Trump for. there’ll some tut-tutting about overreach, but coverage of the active claims will outweigh it. permanent offense. that’s how he won!"

As for dems in battleground states, impeachment may not be super popular right now but that's probably bc most people don't know enough about all the corruption and self dealing

Quote :

"New HuffPost/YouGov poll 37% say impeach Trump 41% say don't impeach Trump 22% aren't sure (Poll was taken April 18-19; Mueller report came out on the 18th) https://t.co/3WNSWn24uD"

4/22/2019 5:09:09 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "i think we are viewing alternative facts here, wondering what i'm missing" This is so frustrating, and it's prevalent all over the internet.... are you serious? are you being willfully ingorant? are you trolling? have you read the report... or heard any of the summaries of the report that come from any new organization that isn't a trump cheerleader? Quote : "the worst crimes trump commits obama also did the same ones" like what? can you show some comparison (and of course, cite sources?)"

again, there was no collusion. Trump did't fire mueller, even tho he had a right to. Comey deserved to be fired for screwing up the hillary emails crap show and leaking documents to the press. if the president cant fire the fbi director without committing a crime than the director, not the president is the supreme leader of executive branch.

one example of obama's crimes is committing acts of war overseas without a declaration of war. he did this in many many countries. hell, obama even targeted american citizens

[Edited on April 22, 2019 at 7:48 PM. Reason : c]

4/22/2019 7:43:47 PM

So no, you haven’t read the report or gotten an analysis from anything other than a right leaning source...you can just say so, you would appear at least honest that way

4/22/2019 8:09:52 PM

Dude read the synopsis of Burr’s synopsis on a geocities site.

4/22/2019 8:30:34 PM

^^^this is why it's safer to just ignore Trump's base

Also, beats you're looking for this thread I think
https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=556098

4/22/2019 9:30:00 PM

^^^^
There definitely, very obviously was collusion

But collusion is not a crime, and there was not enough found to recommend indictment for the crime of conspiracy. Not because trump didn’t want to work with the Russians and the Russians wanted to help to trump, but because mueller was unable to determine if anything of measurable value was given to Russia in exchange for their help.

And the actual crimes of obstruction of justice were committed by trump many, many times, which likely contributed to mueller not being able to prove there was no conspiracy.

[Edited on April 22, 2019 at 9:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/22/2019 9:59:27 PM

https://twitter.com/kfaulders/status/1120514421237911552?s=21

I’m sure this is just a misunderstanding and the president will begin to cooperate soon in order to to find the truth.

Quote :

"Impeachment is not going to remove Trump from office. "

Or? Maybe you do your duty as the duly elected majority in the house and move to begin proceedings to remove a manifestly unfit mongoloid from office despite what the Senate might do under the most nihilistic, cynical leadership in multiple generations?

Quote :

"Comey deserved to be fired for screwing up the hillary emails crap show a"

This is the content we are all here for

[Edited on April 22, 2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason : X]

4/22/2019 10:35:53 PM

Quote :

"@mj_lee What do you say to Democrats who say "this is not the time" for impeachment proceedings? Warren: "There is no political inconvenience exception to the United States Constitution." #WarrenTownHall"

4/22/2019 11:34:51 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watch/political-lessons-from-clinton-impeachment-1502369859595

I found it interesting that, at the time of Bill Clinton's impeachment, support for his impeachment was 24% and opposition to his impeachment was 71%.

Another noteworthy point is that Republicans got crushed in the following midterm election; however, Clinton's impeachment occurred during the first two years of his second term, not during the last two years of his first team, as would be the case with Trump.

[Edited on April 23, 2019 at 9:34 AM. Reason : ]

4/23/2019 9:20:43 AM

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1121072998935683072?s=21

This administration is going to keep spitting in Pelosi’s face. She can’t keep taking it, can she?

4/24/2019 11:29:21 AM

related reading:
Congressional Subpoenas: Enforcing Executive Branch Compliance
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45653.pdf

4/24/2019 11:46:40 AM

Impeach Trump. But don’t necessarily try him in the Senate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/impeach-trump-but-dont-necessarily-try-him-in-the-senate/2019/06/05/22d83672-87bc-11e9-a870-b9c411dc4312_story.html?utm_term=.d45313aeabe8

Quote :

"The point would not be to take old-school House impeachment leading to possible Senate removal off the table at the outset. Instead, the idea would be to build into the very design of this particular inquiry an offramp that would make bypassing the Senate an option while also nourishing the hope that a public fully educated about what this president did would make even a Senate beholden to this president and manifestly lacking in political courage willing to bite the bullet and remove him. By resolving now to pursue such a path, always keeping open the possibility that its inquiry would unexpectedly lead to the president’s exoneration, the House would be doing the right thing as a constitutional matter. It would be acting consistent with its overriding obligation to establish that no president is above the law, all the while keeping an eye on the balance of political considerations without setting the dangerous precedent that there are no limits to what a corrupt president can get away with as long as he has a compliant Senate to back him. And pursuing this course would preserve for all time the tale of this uniquely troubled presidency."

[Edited on June 6, 2019 at 9:00 AM. Reason : .]

6/6/2019 8:55:27 AM