Quote :

"yep. now, start asking me more absurd questions about extremes to compare to the basics og the general case. it really gets me hot and bothered"

The definition of personhood and what whether conjoined twins are unique individuals is central to the issue at hand. It's not tangential in the least.

7/1/2011 8:03:18 AM

itt, we agree that aaronburro should have been aborted.

7/4/2011 12:36:23 PM

Quote :

"You can't just re-define words to fit your stance. "

where have I tried to do so? right. I haven't. As opposed to our dear friend disco_stu who has tried to say that "definitely" does not mean "definitely".

Quote :

"So now you're trying to define murder as the immoral killing of someone?"

I know. how I dare I try to use a COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION of the word. So common that it's actually in the dictionary!

Quote :

"If the law said it is A-OK to string the black man up in a tree, then it's not murder... By definition, it is not murder."

hahahahahaha. ok, we see how absurd you are. thanks, mein Fuhrer.

Quote :

"The definition of personhood and what whether conjoined twins are unique individuals is central to the issue at hand. It's not tangential in the least."

Only, it is. That's why it's an absurd analogy. nice try

7/5/2011 8:06:53 AM

Quote :

"[argument]"

You're wrong. That's absurd. Nice try.

7/5/2011 8:30:58 AM

Quote :

"Only, it is. That's why it's an absurd analogy. nice try"

I mean, we can do the "yes it is, no it isn't" bullshit in perpetuity if you'd like. Or you can explain why your definition of personhood isn't important to the concept of murder.

And you know what? Address this, since you bring this bullshit argument into every thread about evidence and fact:

Quote :

"aaronburro, why do you think that abortion is murder? How do you know that human gestation isn't just an illusion to make you think that abortion is killing babies?"

[Edited on July 5, 2011 at 8:55 AM. Reason : .]

7/5/2011 8:53:10 AM

Quote :

" I know. how I dare I try to use a COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION of the word. So common that it's actually in the dictionary!"

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=murder&o=0&l=dir

That is the dictionary definition of the word. So no. It's not the "COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION" of the word "murder."

Quote :

"where have I tried to do so? right. I haven't."

Read my post again where I call you out for redefining the word murder.

In your next post, provide evidence, proof, definitions to refute me.

7/5/2011 1:04:26 PM

Why does it matter what murder means? That's like arguing which symbol to use in a math equation.

7/5/2011 1:58:55 PM

Because de facto assuming abortion is murder is begging the question.

7/5/2011 2:02:44 PM

^^ Because he equates abortion to murder. He is trying to show killing=murder.

7/5/2011 9:35:00 PM

Quote :

"That is the dictionary definition of the word. So no. It's not the "COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION" of the word "murder.""

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder
#5. oh shit. what was your point, again? That we can kill black people as long as the law says it?

Quote :

"Because he equates abortion to murder. He is trying to show killing=murder."

Oh look, a strawman. good work!

7/6/2011 12:42:02 PM

A) Answer my question about conjoined twins.
B) How do you know that gestation really isn't an illusion designed to make you think abortion is killing babies?
C)
aaronburro

Quote :

"yep. a bad thing will happen that will happen regardless. so the solution is CLEARLY to murder the innocent"

Quote :

"and yes, that makes you a baby killer. by definition. I'm glad you finally agree."

Quote :

"you mean, like the people who have no problem murdering fetuses? Exactly."

and this last one is for me, bolding mine

Quote :

"Sorry. Murder, BY DEFINITION, is the unlawful killing of a person. If the state is doing it, via fucking DUE PROCESS, then it;'s not murder, you twit."

Tell me again how your definition of personhood is irrelevant.

7/6/2011 1:37:37 PM

I think I know what you're trying to get at, but I'm honestly confused about the gestation illusion statement.

7/6/2011 1:41:30 PM

In any thread regarding science, aaronburro loves to throw the "You don't really know what is really real" canard out when we make statements of fact.

Him referring to the evidence we have that the world is older than 6000 years old:

Quote :

"all of which could have been created to make the earth appear much older than it is."

7/6/2011 2:01:31 PM

I'm sorry if you can't understand basic logic and reason.

7/6/2011 3:19:37 PM

A) Answer my question about conjoined twins.
B) How do you know that gestation really isn't an illusion designed to make you think abortion is killing babies?
C)Not a strawman?
aaronburro

Quote :

""yep. a bad thing will happen that will happen regardless. so the solution is CLEARLY to murder the innocent""

Quote :

""and yes, that makes you a baby killer. by definition. I'm glad you finally agree.""

Quote :

""you mean, like the people who have no problem murdering fetuses? Exactly.""

and this last one is for me, bolding mine

Quote :

""Sorry. Murder, BY DEFINITION, is the unlawful killing of a person. If the state is doing it, via fucking DUE PROCESS, then it;'s not murder, you twit.""

Tell me again how your definition of personhood is irrelevant.

7/6/2011 3:27:48 PM

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/person

Quote :

"a human being, whether man, woman, or child"

hmmm, what a difficult definition!

Quote :

"Answer my question about conjoined twins."

This is Chewbacca. Why am I talking about Chewbacca? ... ANSWER ME ABOUT CHEWBACCA!!!!!

Quote :

"How do you know that gestation really isn't an illusion designed to make you think abortion is killing babies?"

This is fine trolling right here.

7/6/2011 3:31:13 PM

So is that an appropriate response when you say that we can't really know that all the evidence suggesting that the world is much older than 6000 years old conclusively indicates such?

7/6/2011 3:32:57 PM

only a troll brings in shit from ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD on a COMPLETE FUCKING DIFFERENT TOPIC. I'm sorry that you feel threatened when someone questions your religion. get the fuck over it, you condescending prick. if you wanna troll on, then I'm just gonna ignore you and know exactly the kind of heartless, worthless cunt you are

7/6/2011 3:35:33 PM

Knowing whether a fact is true is on topic to every topic. There is no topic where epistemology is trolling.

I find you hilarious by the way. I knew if I asked you the very same question you asked us you'd think it was obtuse trolling....why should we not think the same of you?

7/6/2011 3:52:25 PM

Quote :

"Knowing whether a fact is true is on topic to every topic."

troll on, 18 wheeler, troll on...

Quote :

"I knew if I asked you the very same question you asked us you'd think it was obtuse trolling"

when did I ask you if gestation was a ruse? riiiiiiiiiight. when have I EVERY asked you if reality is reality. never happened. find me where I've done so and I'll shut up. But you can't. So I won't. THAT is why you are trolling

7/6/2011 4:04:03 PM

I'd be curious to know if burro is also against in vitro fertilization given his intransigence.

7/6/2011 4:25:56 PM

I'd be curious to know if HockeyRoman could continue asking an irrelevant question over and over again, given his intransigence.

7/6/2011 4:33:05 PM

Quote :

"when did I ask you if gestation was a ruse? riiiiiiiiiight. when have I EVERY asked you if reality is reality. never happened. find me where I've done so and I'll shut up. But you can't. So I won't. THAT is why you are trolling"

Quote :

""all of which could have been created to make the earth appear much older than it is.""

7/6/2011 4:37:59 PM

relevance. there is none. troll on

7/6/2011 4:41:15 PM

lol, show me where I said reality isn't reality....oh wait, that's you trolling because the thread title associated with that comment is different. You're welcome to make empirical assumptions when it comes to special babies inside mommies but when it comes to the age of the Earth, no sir.

7/6/2011 4:43:09 PM

Quote :

"I'd be curious to know if HockeyRoman could continue asking an irrelevant question over and over again, given his intransigence."

It's actually quite relevant.

7/6/2011 4:50:29 PM

Quote :

"lol, show me where I said reality isn't reality"

lol, show me where I've even discussed that in this thread. Oh right, I haven't. Troll on.

^ no, it's not. If you would like to show the relevance, be my guest.

7/6/2011 4:53:56 PM

Let me ask you nice and slowly so that you can understand. Do you believe that in vitro fertilization is a good and moral practice?

7/6/2011 4:59:02 PM

Quote :

"lol, show me where I've even discussed that in this thread. Oh right, I haven't. Troll on."

I don't need to. I'm using a logical argument. Whether you used the argument in a different thread is actually irrelevant. I'm borrowing it from you to use for effect here. Are you saying that only completely original arguments that have never been brought up on an Internet message board ever are on topic?

7/6/2011 5:12:16 PM

well, I mean, I'm not with aaronburro on this issue but I think the whole "is it REAL?!?!!?" argument in this case is kinda dumb. :\

If you really want to know if gestation is an illusion, I can send you papers on fetal surgery...

7/6/2011 8:09:57 PM

Quote :

"Let me ask you nice and slowly so that you can understand."

Let me ask you nice and slowly so that you can understand: WHAT. IS. THE. GOD. DAMNED. RELEVANCE?

Quote :

"I don't need to. I'm using a logical argument. Whether you used the argument in a different thread is actually irrelevant. I'm borrowing it from you to use for effect here. "

no. you are just trolling. If you wanna talk about it, how about doing it in the threads it's already been brought up in. you don't want to, though. you just want to troll

[Edited on July 6, 2011 at 8:14 PM. Reason : ]

7/6/2011 8:13:29 PM

Quote :

"#5. oh shit. what was your point, again? That we can kill black people as long as the law says it?"

Oh shit. You're an uneducated fuck.

Lets go back and re-read what I posted and what you responded with:

merbig:

Quote :

"So now you're trying to define murder as the immoral killing of someone?"

aaronburro:

Quote :

"I know. how I dare I try to use a COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION of the word. So common that it's actually in the dictionary!"

The definition you referenced is this:

Quote :

"to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously."

Where does it reference anything about it being the immoral killing of someone/something?

It doesn't.

So no, the "COMMON FUCKING DEFINITION" is not that the murder the immoral killing of something/someone.

And being that you think abortion should be illegal on the basis that you believe that you are killing another human being, you are not able to classify abortion as being a form of murder since abortion is legal.

7/6/2011 11:38:16 PM

so, again, if the law said we could kill black people indiscriminately, it wouldn't be murder. got it.
you are trying to hide behind legalese, which is absolute scumbaggery. You know precisely what murder is, absent the law. Yet you are hiding behind it, like it somehow makes your argument stronger. In fact, it makes your argument weaker. "Hey, i'm gonna say that everything a law allows is A-OK!"

[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 3:46 AM. Reason : ]

7/7/2011 3:45:37 AM

Quote :

"well, I mean, I'm not with aaronburro on this issue but I think the whole "is it REAL?!?!!?" argument in this case is kinda dumb. :\ If you really want to know if gestation is an illusion, I can send you papers on fetal surgery..."

It is a stupid fucking argument isn't it? Guess where I got it from? It's a stupid fucking argument in this and every thread that aaronburro uses it in. Of course, if you use it against him... TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL.

7/7/2011 8:56:20 AM

Quote :

"so, again, if the law said we could kill black people indiscriminately, it wouldn't be murder. got it."

That is correct. Again. You are trying to link murder to being an immoral act. Murder can be an immoral act. But is the immoral killing of someone murder?

Quote :

"you are trying to hide behind legalese, which is absolute scumbaggery. You know precisely what murder is, absent the law. Yet you are hiding behind it, like it somehow makes your argument stronger. In fact, it makes your argument weaker. "Hey, i'm gonna say that everything a law allows is A-OK!""

You keep identifying abortion as murder.

Remember earlier I said that the state murders criminals? You refuted my claim by saying:

Quote :

"Sorry. Murder, BY DEFINITION, is the unlawful killing of a person. If the state is doing it, via fucking DUE PROCESS, then it;'s not murder, you twit."

You recognized that the definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a person. Hasn't abortion been recognized as being lawful? You can't define murder as being the unlawful killing of a person only when it suits your argument and then use another definition when your original definition hurts your argument.

Being that you say I'm hiding behind legalese and you previously were hiding behind legalese to make your point, what does that make you?

And I'm doing exactly what you were previously doing. Using semantics to try and make a point and obliterate your argument. Now you're not happy and you think calling me a "scumbag" is going to change anything. You've been misusing a word (murder) this entire thread to play to people's emotions. You have tried implying that people are for murder by using the false premise that abortion is currently illegal, because the word "murder" appeals to people's emotions stronger than "immoral killing."

You are as bad as PETA who uses blood, gore, shock value and the word "murder" improperly to sway people's opinions to favor their own. There is nothing that makes you different from PETA in terms of the arguments and your method of argument you are trying to make.

You should have been aborted.

[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 7, 2011 at 9:56 AM. Reason : .]

7/7/2011 9:45:13 AM

pwnt

7/7/2011 10:16:23 AM

Quote :

"That is correct. Again."

That's all I need to know. "Hey, I can do whatever the fuck I want and it's A-OK as long as the law says so." You are a spineless cunt, just like the person who said we can kill any person if we say is life is not valuable.

Quote :

"You keep identifying abortion as murder."

because it is. DOH!

Quote :

"You recognized that the definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a person. Hasn't abortion been recognized as being lawful?"

So, AGAIN, if the law said "we can kill the darkies," you wouldn't classify that as murder? Your ONLY point is a semantic one? You are truly disgusting.

7/16/2011 5:31:57 AM

Quote :

"because it is. DOH!"

You have yet to show that it is. Time and time again, I have shown that abortion is not murder. Unless you can provide fact, and not opinion, that it is not murder, then you're nothing more than a rambling moron.

Quote :

"So, AGAIN, if the law said "we can kill the darkies," you wouldn't classify that as murder?"

That is right. How is it murder if it is legal? Did I say that it was moral? No. You're trying to blend the line between legality and morality, and that is disgusting.

Quote :

"Your ONLY point is a semantic one? You are truly disgusting."

It discredits your only point that abortion is murder, which I have shown that it is not. All you've done in this thread is try to appeal to people's emotions by calling them murderers, Nazis or sick, without making one rational argument. Your entire line of argument is disgusting, shameful and juvenile. When called out on it, you throw a hissy fit like a toddler. When people use the same tactics as you (such as getting into semantics, as it was you who used terms like "BY DEFINITION"), you stomp your feet and yell "IT'S JUST SEMANTICS, THERE IS NO POINT!"

Your continued blending of the line between morality and legality opens up a nasty door of reasoning that you can do nothing to defend against.

Anyway, you should have been aborted.

7/16/2011 9:07:54 AM

^

It's never too late for ultra-deferred abortions!

Quote :

"[Pastor Flip Benham, director of Operation Save America,] insisted on the Florida mother's guilt and says Caylee's death was nothing less than “later-term abortion.”"

http://tinyurl.com/6avhs3a

7/16/2011 10:50:50 AM

Quote :

"You have yet to show that it is. Time and time again, I have shown that abortion is not murder."

No, you haven't. You've showed that you are A-OK with state-sanctioned murder. I guess Hitler didn't murder people, because he was part of the gov't, right? Neither did Stalin.

Quote :

"That is right. How is it murder if it is legal?"

Because murder is a concept we understand OUTSIDE OF A LEGAL DEFINITION. I don't say "OJ Simpson murdered his wife in violation of California Law 1.2.345", and neither do you.

Quote :

"It discredits your only point that abortion is murder, which I have shown that it is not."

Only, it is.

Quote :

"It's never too late for ultra-deferred abortions!"

I know, right? People here have already admitted there is no discernable difference between the moment right before the baby pops out and the moment right after, so why even say we can't do it after it pops out.

7/16/2011 3:34:34 PM

Abortion IS state sanctioned murder.

So is the death penalty.

So is people who we murder in wars.

Stalin doesn’t count though, because he wasn’t democratically elected. He was just a brutal fascist.

[Edited on July 16, 2011 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

7/16/2011 3:57:17 PM

death penalty, not murder. I'm sorry that you somehow see any similarity between a heinous criminal and an innocent unborn child

7/16/2011 4:36:41 PM

The abortion issue is only a big deal because of the principle, not the actual "damage". In reality, it's not like every woman that has an unexpected pregnancy goes off running to the clinic. The amount of harm that is done does not warrant all of this controversy. But it is just the fact that women "can" do it that pisses people off, or gives them an identity whichever you prefer.

This problem is one part of politics that I hate. People cling to certain principals and ideals because they want an identity, but if you just let it go they would realize that it is not a big issue at all.

I know that this seems biased, but flame on.

[Edited on July 16, 2011 at 5:33 PM. Reason : ujgh]

7/16/2011 5:12:46 PM

Quote :

"No, you haven't. You've showed that you are A-OK with state-sanctioned murder. I guess Hitler didn't murder people, because he was part of the gov't, right? Neither did Stalin."

Hitler didn't murder people. He had people killed, and their death was immoral. I guess you're too stupid to tell the difference between legality and morality. Again, you're trying to appeal to emotion to try to discredit my point, and it's not working.

Oh, and "state-sanctioned murder" is an oxymoron, moron.

Quote :

"Because murder is a concept we understand OUTSIDE OF A LEGAL DEFINITION. I don't say "OJ Simpson murdered his wife in violation of California Law 1.2.345", and neither do you."

Who is this we? And why are you still trying to redefine words, especially after you got your panties in a wad over using words to their strict definition? Murder is a legal concept. Killing is not.

And I don't say "OJ Simpson murdered" anyone. He was found innocent, remember?

Quote :

"Only, it is."

Troll on. You have yet to backup the claim.

Quote :

" People here have already admitted there is no discernable difference between the moment right before the baby pops out and the moment right after, so why even say we can't do it after it pops out."

Really? Who?

[Edited on July 16, 2011 at 7:16 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2011 7:14:59 PM

I think that all decisions regarding abortion should be restricted to women (aside from a male doctor's decision to administer or not administer it).

I think almost everyone in this thread is male. Especially burro. The content that he writes identifies him as so much more characteristically male then anyone else on this site.

7/16/2011 9:24:44 PM

Quote :

"death penalty, not murder. I'm sorry that you somehow see any similarity between a heinous criminal and an innocent unborn child "

LOL

cognitive dissonance much?

You realize we DEFINITELY have executed innocent people?

Not to mention that who gets the death penalty and who doesn't isn't hard and fast... 2 people committing a similar crime get different sentences based on their looks/jury/lawyer/race/etc.

Anyone who supports the death penalty supports state sponsored, socially acceptable, murder.

7/17/2011 11:23:16 PM

I know that the timeline is controversial and all, but seriously, women loose babies in the first trimester all of the time: it is not so uncommon.

From my point of view, at anytime in the first trimester there is not guarantee of life.

7/18/2011 10:32:57 AM

Quote :

"Hitler didn't murder people."

hahahahahahahahahahaha. that is fucking hilarious now. We have a Hitler apologist.

Quote :

"Murder is a legal concept."

It is also a concept known outside of its legal definition. I'm sorry that you are being too obtuse to admit this.

Quote :

"And I don't say "OJ Simpson murdered" anyone. He was found innocent, remember"

And you show your true stupidity.

Quote :

"Really? Who?"

I'm not doing your research for you, especially since it's been done in this very thread.

Quote :

"I think that all decisions regarding abortion should be restricted to women"

yep. perfectly rational idea. because the woman is the only one affected here. yep.

Quote :

"You realize we DEFINITELY have executed innocent people?"

which is a topic for another thread. The point is that the death penalty is used against convicted criminals, people who have actually had some kind of due process.

Quote :

"I know that the timeline is controversial and all, but seriously, women loose babies in the first trimester all of the time: it is not so uncommon."

let's see... natural occurrence versus ripping the unborn out and directly causing the death. hmmmm. That's akin to saying "people die all the time when they are 20. there's no need to prosecute someone for murdering a 20 year old"

7/18/2011 5:17:09 PM

Since you obviously need some hand-holding here I'll rephrase my question to something more direct. Do you believe that the in vitro fertilization process is murder? And yes, this is relevant whether or not you choose to acknowledge that fact or not.

7/18/2011 5:27:38 PM

Quote :

"hahahahahahahahahahaha. that is fucking hilarious now. We have a Hitler apologist."

Oh look, a strawman. good work!

Did I say that it was moral? No. You're trying to blend the line between legality and morality, and that is disgusting.

Quote :

"It is also a concept known outside of its legal definition. I'm sorry that you are being too obtuse to admit this."

aaronburro:

Quote :

"Sorry. Murder, BY DEFINITION, is the unlawful killing of a person."

You recognized that the definition of murder is the unlawful killing of a person. Hasn't abortion been recognized as being lawful? You can't define murder as being the unlawful killing of a person only when it suits your argument and then use another definition when your original definition hurts your argument.

Quote :

"And you show your true stupidity."

You're for the the death penalty. To be for something that cannot be undone if the accusations and convictions are proven incorrect, you must have a lot of faith in the justice system. Or are you only in favor of the justice system when it gives the verdict you want and you're against it because you disagree with the verdict...

Quote :

"I'm not doing your research for you, especially since it's been done in this very thread."

You made a claim. Back it up. That's how an intelligent discussion wor... oh, wait. I forgot who I was dealing with.

Quote :

"let's see... natural occurrence versus ripping the unborn out and directly causing the death."

You realize that medication can be used to induce an abortion/miscarriage.

7/18/2011 6:43:11 PM