14

Once you get it in your home, though, it isn't going to matter. Because you are going to watch TV from only that TV.

7/25/2010 1:42:27 PM

From the reviews I read, it matters a lot. When the brightness of an LCD/Plasma drops by 1/2, it looks broken.

7/25/2010 3:05:29 PM

yeah, but when is that going to happen, and it will be difficult to compare it with anything

7/25/2010 3:24:55 PM

hmm, my parent's have had 2 panasonic plasmas as their main tv. The first one is now in the formal living room where my nephew plays video games and watches tv when he's there.

The first one is well over 3yrs old now (i'd say about 5-6), the the 2nd is right around the 2.5-3yr mark. They both looked fine the last i saw them.


I'm not saying Noen is wrong about the 1/2 brightness being bad. That would be bad. But in the experience I have with them, I'm not so sure I agree with the reviews that the half-life is so quick. I tend to give reviews a lot of weight, but this just isn't aligning with my actual experience with the brand.

7/25/2010 3:53:37 PM

as quickly as technology changes, I could see one model being vastly superior/inferior to another over a short period of time

take for instance automobiles in the 80's, 90's and now (toyota)

electronics progress on a shorter time scale (or...more quickly)

7/26/2010 12:04:58 AM

^ true. but he said panasonics (not the particular model) from the past 3yrs have this problem. My parent's panasonic plasma was brand new in that time frame, and I'm certain it has more than 1000 hrs on it. It's not close to 1/2 brightness yet.

7/26/2010 3:02:04 AM

bump. who's got a new tv lately?

9/30/2010 4:53:54 PM

my dad's been looking for another one to add at the lake. Plasmas have dropped quite a bit

9/30/2010 5:05:39 PM

sold my projector and got a 54" panasonic G25 plasma

I have a feeling my relationship with panasonic will last quite a while, I am very pleased with the tv

10/1/2010 3:08:43 PM

ibNoen

10/1/2010 5:59:46 PM

Maybe this has been discussed previously in this thread, but does anyone else find the lack of motion blur while watching feature fims at 120Hz distracting? The whole 24p effect of film transfer seems to be lost and the movie now looks like a reality tv. Sports, videogames, and p0rn, on the other hand, would probably benefit from such realistic perception of the footage. Do those of you with 120HZ TVs turn it off while watching feature films, or did you eventually just get used to it?

Additionally, after looking at the TVs at the store, I fail to see how any increase of dynamic range of a plasma (which seems to be hardly noticeable) outweight very apparent visibility of individual pixels as compared to LCD. I can literally see the rectangular pixels from several feet away, while the image on an LCD of the same resolution of the same size mashes into one cohesive fabric. I was watching the same source on the same brand of TVs hanging side-by-side, so everything else WAS being equal.

Basically, from what I have seen so far, I would rather watch movies on 60Hz LCD than on 120Hz plasma. Do I need to get my eyes checked?

10/6/2010 6:29:44 PM

yeah, probably.


were the plasma and lcd you were watching the same size? Was the resolution of the sources the same? Those are very important factors. 1080 is 1080. Maybe I'm missing something, but 1080 lines on the same size screens should mean the pixels are pretty much the same size. Now if one screen is bigger, it still only has 1080 lines, so the lines have to be bigger... thus the lines will be more noticeable. Or maybe one was actually 720 and the other was 1080. If there were 720 lines on a 52" tv, the lines would have to be bigger than the lines on a image made up of 1080 lines.

Now, how certain are you that they were the EXACT same source? Are you sure one wasn't standard being stretched or zoomed and that the other was hd? Or maybe one was actually 720 and the other was 1080. I worked at Circuit City a long time ago before they went out of business. Those TVs were not set to be "equal" or even to show their best image. Adjustments were regularly made to TVs to make some look better than others. Unless you've gone over and made adjustments to the TV yourself, I would not assume that a TV in a big box store is set up to display it's best possible picture. The TVs that were being pushed were set to be their best while others were adjusted to be decent but not their best - just to create a noticeable gap between the two. A gap that may justify the additional cost. Just depended on the week, what was on sale, what they wanted to move, etc. And this wasn't by the sales person's eyes. They were given specific settings on a sheet to match the TVs with.


Regular LCDs do not get as dark as plasmas. Locally dimmed LCDs are pretty close but are very expensive. And plasmas reproduce colors closer to life than LCDs.

Generally speaking, plasmas have historically been the goto over LCDs for home theaters.

And the TVs being the same brand doesn't doesn't necessarily mean much. Most companies make either plasma panels or LCD panels, not both.. Those who only make LCDs buy their plasmas from one of the other companies and then put it in a case with their brand on it with their electronics (assuming they didn't buy those as well). And most of them have different tiers of LCDs and Plasmas. So it'd also only be fair if you're looking at say a mid-level plasma vs a mid-level LCD. And not a high-end LCD and a low-end plasma.


And not that this matters much any more because you're not likely to get one. But since you mentioned it I'll comment on the refresh rate thing. It was never really an issue for plasmas period. On 60hz LCD, a lot of people noticed motion blur with fast action. It's been fixed over the years. But it was not an issue with plasmas.


but, the key thing is whether or not you notice it. Personally, I've spent a lot of time watching both plasmas and LCDs and have never noticed the pixels on a plasma any more than an LCD.

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 7:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2010 7:27:08 PM

Love my sony 46xbr8 I bought open boxed at BB for a price I couldn't resist a couple weeks back. Reviews have been great for it and they were not lying. I know it's a lot older but even the newer lcds can't touch this set. Yeah it's not super thin but that's not something I was looking for.

SIDE NOTE!
I just had an incident with my brother on his new 58" samsung plasma that was cracked when we opened it. Make sure you either pay for the delivery service or have them open the box and make sure the screen isn't cracked. They apparently have this high tech pressure sensitive device for the ripped up box that you opened that determines if it was a user mistake. Didn't know Best Buy had technology like that.....absolute BS. Anyway lesson learned and after only knowing a GM from another Best Buy was my brother able to get an exchange. I couldn't believe that they would put the burden on the consumers like that. Had a screaming match with the Manager but they wouldn't budge. It was honestly the worst customer service I had every encountered. They honestly need to put a sign up warning consumers about this kind of incident.

10/6/2010 8:30:42 PM

I've learned that if you have a customer support issue with Best Buy, you're almost always better off calling the 800-best-buy number and talking to customer service there. Any time you're talking to a store manager, anything he does for you is going to end up affecting his bottom line, so he won't be as likely to be helpful. The people on the phones aren't tied to any store in particular, so they will most likely end up doing what's right. At least that's been my experience on 2 occasions anyway.

10/6/2010 8:47:51 PM

We actually did call corporate and they sided with the manager. We got all the way to a supervisor and apparently she was warned they might be getting a call. It was crazy and what was even more crazy was that I thought it was going to be an easy exchange and be happy for my brother that he has a nice tv in his new house we moved him into. Just glad that's over but it taught me a lesson. If Best Buy wasn't the only option here I'd boycott but unfortunately there isn't a better option. HHGregg is the closest thing I guess and thank god Circuit City is gone cause they were useless.

10/6/2010 9:08:19 PM

Quote :

"Basically, from what I have seen so far, I would rather watch movies on 60Hz LCD than on 120Hz plasma. Do I need to get my eyes checked?"

I can't imagine picking an LCD over a Plasma unless you're super worried about power consumption.

That said, when I watch a friend's 120Hz LCD display commercials it looks so horribly unnatural, that I'm wondering if your issue isn't more a Hz issue and less a display type issue.

10/6/2010 9:46:43 PM

So I stoped by the BB, HHGregg, and walmart yesterday to look at some TVs again, and compared them again side-by-side. They were all showing the same 1080p best buy/ walmart demos, optimized for 16x9, so there was no stretching or zooming, and very easy to compare side-by-side. It appears that the higher-end plasmas, costing near 2k or more, did not have the "pixel" artifacts pronounced very noticeably, but every single one of the cheaper ones did. It appears to be not "pixels" themselves, but more like the lines between them that were very noticeable, and it appears to be part of the plasma technology. It is especially more apparent on the older model plasmas. Also, I compared blacks side-by-side, and although I did find the blacks to be darker on some plasmas (again, more expensive ones), the blacks on cheaper ones were very much comparable to LCDs. Of course, the store is fairly brightly lit (alghough they purposely do not put light directly over the TV area) , so the difference in blacks may be more apparent in a dim room.

So for a higher-end home theater applications plasmas may be better, but since I am looking at a set for <1000 for casual movie and tv show watching, I will probably go with an LCD. I also understant that the TVs were not set to show their best possbile picture, and in the base case just pulled out of the box and hung of the wall (and in the worst case de-tuned to sell a brand), but I found the Sony's color reproduction the most natural (and it was apparent across the board in several different stores I looked). Since I will probably not be doing the professional calibration at home, I'd rather have something that is dialed in right out of the box or I will have to play by the ear (the eye?).

also it appears that other people are finding that movies do not look right at 120Hz http://shepherdsons.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/hd-ruins-movies-120hz-1080p-fake/

Quote :

"OK, I can agree with all of you that 120Hz and 1920×1080/24p film can look fake. Point conceeded. All of you have hit on the issue. 120Hz is the realization of technology and digital finally reproducing exactly what used to be recorded analog. Meaning, films are most always shot at 24 frames per second meaning that they capture an image every 24 times per second. TV’s up untill recently reproduced these images at 60 frames per second (NTSC or PAL conventions…don’t really know which). The point is that in order to reproduce the 24 frames per second in a 60 frame window the company must repeat frames. Furthermore, Directors saw their film recorded in 24p, don’t you want to watch it in it? Let me explain 120Hz…60 divided by 24 does not equal an integer, a whole number, it instead equals 2.5. This half frame is impossible to display, obviously. The way around this that was devised long ago was to use something called 3:2 pull down which repeats frames at an interval of 2, 2, 3. The eliminates the extra frame. This processes however makes one image stay longer than the others and therefore during high motion or panning shots people tend to blur, an optical effect from your brain trying to understand why it is seeing one image too long. The result is blurring which hides imperfections, I will get to those, created by hollywood not “caring” about the HD viewers out there. The advent of 120Hz or 120 frames per second allows those frames to be displayed without pulldown meaning each frames gets five shots then the next gets five. Why the number five because 120 is divisible by five evenly. It is 120/5 = 24. The extra special idea behind 120 hz is that it not only displays 24 frames per second material accurately, IE DVD, BLU-RAY and the dead format HDDVD, it actually reproduces 60Hz evenly as well. So your broadcast shows don’t have to go through some conversion process. Their are a number of other frame rates as well such as 30 fps. which are also displayed accurately. 120/30=4."

[Edited on October 7, 2010 at 8:16 AM. Reason : pretty sure it has nothing to do with 1080p and everything to do with 120 hz]

10/7/2010 7:47:49 AM

yeah, movies looking unnatural at 120Hz is pretty much agreed upon across the board. Some tvs have a "film" mode that is supposed to help. I haven't seen it to say whether it does or not. You may want to look into that.

10/7/2010 7:00:11 PM

I ended up getting a basic but solid 40'' Sony bravia (ex400) for around 600 bucks with an extended warranty. Colors and skin tones on on all Sony TVs looked just right, not overblown or overprocessed like some other brands. At this screen size, image did not look inferior to the ex600 series that was hanging right next to it on display for almost twice the price. I figured I was not going to bother switching between 120 and 60 hz to make an upgrade to the 120 hz model, and I did not need internet connectivity as I will be getting wither a PS3, an internet-enabled blu-ray player, or one of the other connected boxes either way. Turned it on at home, picked up a few over-the-air HD channels, picture looks good right out of the box, and ambient light sensor really helps with keeping the blacks deep when the lights go out. Plays video and audio content off a flash drive, and laptop connects just fine via hdmi. By the time I move to a next place, the glass-free 3d technology and content may be around, so ill do the big spending then.

10/8/2010 2:33:07 PM

Got a smudge on my lcd. What can I use to clean it?

10/8/2010 3:17:49 PM

^^ Would you recommend this TV? I need 37-42" and was looking to spend $700 or less. TV isnt that important to me but I still want something I wont regret purchasing. I had a 32" Sammy at 720p and want to go 1080p for better resolution when connecting a Laptop. This Bravia looks about right so is it all you'd hoped and dreamed for?

[Edited on October 14, 2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

10/14/2010 10:51:05 PM

There's a difference between a 120hz (or 240hz) TV properly displaying 24fps, 30fps, or 60fps and a 120hz (or 240hz) TV running in some kind of smooth motion interpolation mode.

10/15/2010 7:22:35 PM

^^ yeah, I am completely happy about the Bravia. I have been using it with Comcast HD and the colors are dead-on, the unobtrusive design fits the apartment well. The only thing is that it did not play some of the HD video content off my USB drive (did not recognize it). Pictures and some other video content played fine. May be just the file type is not supported, have not researched it yet. I will probably be getting a PS3, so that will be a non-issue. Do not miss 12ohz so far and the price was right.

Sorry for late response

10/20/2010 12:08:09 PM

looks like i pushed my g25 too hard during gaming and have some bad image retention

going to have to run the tv for a while and hope it goes away

10/20/2010 2:28:20 PM

thinking about the sony KDL-46HX800...not really excited about the 3d stuff, but it seems like a pretty decent 2d tv anyway...will probably slide by a best buy and check it out...anyone have any input on this TV ?

10/25/2010 5:22:32 PM

about time for a bump

11/3/2010 2:48:49 AM

i picked up a Panasonic TC-P42S2 last weekend. i feel like it was a good pickup for ~$650. the effects of the anti-glare coating were very noticeable in BB. (compared to other TVs around the same price). I haven't gotten a lot of use out of it yet as my xbox went RROD on me and i haven't signed up for cable/satellite yet at the house.

11/3/2010 10:30:06 AM

Quote :

"looks like i pushed my g25 too hard during gaming and have some bad image retention"

what does this mean? i was under the impression that while plasmas may still suffer some from burn-in, it was only when you left it on a particular image for too long (or watched a lot of television with something stationary like a news ticker or something)...how can you push your monitor "too hard"?

11/3/2010 10:53:30 AM

I'm looking for a TV around 55" and trying to decide between 3d or no 3d and plasma or LED

Amazon has a Samsung UN55C7000 55-Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED HDTV with 3D Blu-Ray player, 3D movie and 3D glasses for 2,199.

Any suggestions on this size

11/3/2010 11:18:46 AM

I bought this a few months ago:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Televisions/VIERA-2010-HDTV-Series/VIERA-G25-Series-Plasma-1080p-HDTVs/model.TC-P50G25_11002_7000000000000005702

Plasma, 50" (they make a 54" now) not 3-d.

Amazing picture, unbelievable viewing angles. You can stand almost adjacent to it and still make out the picture. I honestly don't have any complaints. I play a lot of video games and there has been absolutely no image retention. And they're way cheaper than 3-D tvs. I'm not sold on wearing glasses. The MSRP on the 50" is 1399 (54: 1899).

11/3/2010 1:57:40 PM

yea i got too cocky and jacked my brightness and contrast up way too high and played the same game for hours ever day but i was able to get rid of the IR in one night by running some slides

at this point I am pretty sure that that tv is burn in proof unless you do something REALLY bad

11/3/2010 6:03:04 PM

somebody post me a link to a 42" LCD for $399. can wait until black friday if needed.

11/8/2010 10:58:34 AM

There was a refurb'd 37" for $340 on woot the other day.

11/8/2010 11:03:06 AM

Thanks for the suggestion disco_stu. I got the 54" version today for $1300 from hhgregg. After your suggestion I researched it and found plenty of good reviews. The price was so much better than the 3D LED that I had to go with it. The 3D was not worth an extra $800 to me.

They had it marked down to over $1600 but I found it on Amazon for $1307 and they price matched it. Did you get an extended warranty on yours? They offer 3 yr for $349 and 5 yr for $449.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 10:36 PM. Reason : y]

11/12/2010 10:36:19 PM

Now I need a TV Stand for my 54" TV. I want lots of shelving space for PS3, cable box, modded xbox, receiver, etc. The wife doesn't like the glass shelves so I'm trying to find all wood.

This is the front runner so far even though it says 50"
http://www.hhgregg.com/ProductDetail.asp?SID=n&ProductID=23423
They said I could get for $299

11/16/2010 4:26:20 PM

What's everyone's experience with dead pixels?

Took delivery of our new 55 inch Samsung LED three days ago. Tonight a single pixel froze green/cyan.

Already called, and the replacement is coming on Tuesday. Just wondering if this was a rarity.

11/19/2010 5:53:07 PM

never had a dead pixel on any of a dozen or so LCD displays i've owned (including PC monitors)

11/19/2010 9:26:33 PM

Anyone here use onkyo receivers? I can't get the A speakers to work with the B speakers at the same time.

11/20/2010 1:57:39 PM

Haven't bought a TV in probably 10+ years, so any advice/suggestions would be appreciated:

1) Around $750
2) At least 47"
3) LCD or plasma

I have virtually no knowledge when it comes to brands, quality, etc. Any links to decent black friday deals are certainly welcome.

Any of these look decent?

http://slickdeals.net/blackfriday/15881/panasonic-viera-50-1080p-600hz-plasma-hdtv

http://slickdeals.net/blackfriday/13275/sony-46-class-bravia-lcd-hdtv-diagonally

http://slickdeals.net/blackfriday/16153/sony-kdl46ex400-46-1080p-60hz-lcd-hdtv

[Edited on November 20, 2010 at 4:20 PM. Reason : links]

11/20/2010 4:07:22 PM

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A4186752&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=566643&acd=10550055-1225267-u0t0f0fp42388c0s441

60" - $610

so is rear projection really that bad???

^actually, damn that 50" plasma looks good

[Edited on November 26, 2010 at 10:57 AM. Reason : I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about; I just want a tv]

11/26/2010 10:47:34 AM

no, rear projection isn't bad at all IMO. i've got a 4 year old 50" 720p dlp that's still going strong. granted i don't really do blu-rays, but the HD picture from twc looks great. granted they aren't the future, but if it has 1080p then you should be good to go for a while

11/26/2010 11:06:36 AM

My wife went to see if she could get a $300 Westinghouse 40" LCD and she nearly did.

Kind of glad she didn't. That TV is probably garbage.

11/26/2010 11:32:03 AM

westinghouse actually makes a decent tv. we got the target deal last year for the 32" WH and it's working great after a year. however, given the choice i'd snag that 60" in a heartbeat.

11/26/2010 11:52:08 AM

I have the Panasonic Viera above ... LOVE IT!!

11/26/2010 2:36:27 PM

I refreshed the page on the 60" and it dropped by $20.

11/26/2010 9:16:59 PM

Quote :

"i picked up a Panasonic TC-P42S2 last weekend. i feel like it was a good pickup for ~$650. the effects of the anti-glare coating were very noticeable in BB. (compared to other TVs around the same price). I haven't gotten a lot of use out of it yet as my xbox went RROD on me and i haven't signed up for cable/satellite yet at the house."

I have this TV in the 50" size and absolutely love it. You will definitely enjoy this TV. You may want to check out AVSforum for help with calibrating the colors to get the most natural look possible. After owning it for about 12 months now I dont have a single complaint.

11/26/2010 9:27:49 PM

Quote :

"i picked up a Panasonic TC-P42S2 last weekend. i feel like it was a good pickup for ~$650. the effects of the anti-glare coating were very noticeable in BB. (compared to other TVs around the same price). I haven't gotten a lot of use out of it yet as my xbox went RROD on me and i haven't signed up for cable/satellite yet at the house."

Just ordered this tv Friday (got it for $550 shipped/no tax, sorry!) Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Hope you like it. Did you do the 120 hour break-in and calibration as suggested on AVS forums? Anyone know if a 5 day break-in is really necessary?

11/28/2010 1:28:55 PM

thinking about pulling the trigger on this:

http://www.amazon.com/XVT553SV-55-Inch-TruLED-Dimming-Internet/dp/B003GDHI12/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


but been weary of Vizio in the past... I know they have bumped their shit up lately and this one has gotten crazy good reviews and is cheap... any thoughts/experience?

11/28/2010 4:39:47 PM

Got my wife's parents the Samsung LN40C530 40" 1080p LCD HDTV for $500 that was online at Best Buy:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN40C530-40-Inch-1080p-Black/dp/B0036WT3NO

I like Samsung LCD TV's and they didn't need a lot of the extra features of the upper models, the C530 is basically a stripped down version of the C550 (just for Black Friday I presume), but thought it was perfect for the non-tech savvy.

[Edited on November 29, 2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason : ,]

11/29/2010 12:28:40 PM

I want something in the 32-40" range, want 1080p. Less important things that I still want are some sort of 24p mode, internet connectivity. need at least one component input. Want to spend as little as possible without getting something too shitty (so avoiding shitty brands for tvs like wtf is element walmart? )

If I can't find something now i'll have to wait like 6 months until i'm in charleston with a slightly larger budget.

12/1/2010 2:14:34 AM