Yea i think that poll shows that, politically, Biden could go further if he wanted. Trump is going to attack the extreme position regardless and most people aren't fooled.

7/8/2020 1:45:33 PM

https://twitter.com/asmamk/status/1280949384449003520?s=21

Haven’t read it yet (going to try later this evening) but posting in case someone with some free time to look at it wanted to.

7/8/2020 3:49:08 PM

page 31

Liberals will get to feel good about "covering everyone" without the risk of moving themselves to a national program. This means no one will care about the quality but everyone will care about the cost.
its a version of medicare "for all who want it" that was always meant to coopt and then destroy the medicare for all reputation for decades to come (as it is meant to). The program will be poorly funded and you will have the burden of 60-65 year olds, underemployed, and chronically ill added to the current burden of medicare.

Quote :

" back in the position of global leadership where we belong."

why are we entitled to lead the world?

Quote :

"We will build a diverse pipeline of talent in the clean energy economy "

build a diverse pipeline

the climate change plan set a goal of zero emissions but only talks about building new stuff. It doesn't even end coal. It simply divests from fossil fuels and raises standards to pretrump.
[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 4:52 PM. Reason : covid is mentioned 74 times in case you were wondering about pandering]

[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 4:57 PM. Reason : diverse pipelines to fight climate change. keep punching and punching at domestic abuse]

[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 5:05 PM. Reason : criminal justice looks good

[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 5:07 PM. Reason : trump is mentioned 88 times]

[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 5:09 PM. Reason : so they are going into a negotiation with a position that is already compromised. ]

[Edited on July 8, 2020 at 5:11 PM. Reason : picking winners and losers for student debt relief]

7/8/2020 4:50:55 PM

Quote :

"Ensure that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) personnel abide by professional standards and are held accountable for inhumane and unlawful treatment. Reallocate existing agency resources for training and demand transparency in, and independent oversight over, ICE and CBP’s activities. Appoint responsible, Senate-confirmed professionals to lead these agencies, who answer directly to the president. Implement robust mechanisms for oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure immigration agencies are abiding by a value-based immigration system, the U.S. constitution, and international law."

That is such a bunch of fluff and nothingness. What a load of shit by this "joint task force". Because of course, nothing bad can ever happen if the people in charge depend on senate confirmation and have to answer to the president. Its not like that technique has ever failed...

7/9/2020 12:27:06 AM

So far so good, please continue. Are you referring to Bill Barr?

[Edited on July 9, 2020 at 12:37 AM. Reason : S]

7/9/2020 12:37:13 AM

Oops.

I was disappointed the task force wasn’t able to agree to lower the Medicare eligibility age, but they couldn’t agree to lower it to 55, Biden has already proposed lowering it to 60.

So I’m still slightly disappointed because I think lowering the age to 55 is some easy low hanging fruit, but at first I thought they had argued for not lowering it at all.

[Edited on July 9, 2020 at 8:09 AM. Reason : Getting too quick with the posts]

7/9/2020 8:02:32 AM

Quote :

"SCOOP: BIG CLIMATE NEWS FROM BIDEN, who will call for setting a 100% clean energy standard by 2035. w/ @arinatter and @jendlouhyhc"

Quote :

"In 2017 @BernieSanders introduced legislation for 100% clean energy by 2050. That @JoeBiden is now backing 100% clean electricity by 2035 is a VERY BIG DEAL, and is a huge victory for the #GreenNewDeal movement. @sunrisemvmt, be proud, and let’s keep pushing. ??"

7/13/2020 10:21:17 PM

Once this is over the landscape will be so changed, these will have to be jobs of future. Hell why not 2025.

7/13/2020 10:59:23 PM

Quote :

"Biden opens the door to eliminating the Senate filibuster, which is new for him: "I think it’s gonna depend on how obstreperous [Republicans] become." It's not his call -- it's up to the Senate majority leader -- but an interesting shift. https://t.co/TSe3dt3VmP"

Hell yea. Two days in a row with some news I like.

7/14/2020 11:05:31 AM

Not my ideal candidate, but he's the best chance we've got.

VOAT.

7/19/2020 7:50:58 AM

Quote :

"New @DataProgress + @YouGovUS polling shows that Independent battleground voters who are dissatisfied with Biden prefer @ewarren for Vice President. https://t.co/MC8yAmArnR https://t.co/ENc25os9Dq "

[Edited on July 20, 2020 at 10:54 AM. Reason : E]

7/20/2020 10:54:11 AM

I might be misinterpreting your post, but it looks like you are advocating that Biden should not pick Warren.

7/21/2020 8:35:56 PM

I would like Biden to win. Those polls appear to show adding Warren would widen his umbrella. How do you get that I'm against Warren?

7/21/2020 8:54:09 PM

Yeah, put me in the camp of people who aren't thrilled about Biden, but would feel better with Warren as a safety net if Biden's health deteriorates while in office, than other VP choices.

7/21/2020 8:55:40 PM

I don't understand the enthusiasm for Kamala Harris and I don't understand Susan Rice's low ratings. Rice would objectively be a far better choice for the job. The only thing I can think of is it comes down to voter recognition?

7/21/2020 9:06:20 PM

^^^it said independents unsatisfied with Biden

[Edited on July 21, 2020 at 9:10 PM. Reason : S]

[Edited on July 21, 2020 at 9:11 PM. Reason : I hope and think it is rice]

7/21/2020 9:10:07 PM

I'm not sure what you're missing. The poll didn't appear to ask likelihood to vote, but the first two categories seem like Biden votes regardless whereas the second two he will need help. Seems like picking a VP they like would help.

7/21/2020 9:13:31 PM

I guess I’d rather cater to satisfied independent voters than unsatisfied progressives. I think it depends on who a larger chunk of electorate is

7/21/2020 9:15:59 PM

Yea i mean I suppose we need a poll about whether a candidate would make you more or less likely to vote Biden, since we're interpreting this one quite differently

Actually, mostly nevermind

Quote :

"Warren is also the strongest candidate among Independents who say they are voting for Biden but are not enthusiastic about doing so "

Quote :

"Fully 38 percent of Independents who reported they were at least considering Joe Biden also reported they were only likely or not sure to do so, but that a Vice President would increase their enthusiasm. (Naturally, a negligible share said they were probably not going to vote for him but were also considering him) Among that considerable share of Independents, Elizabeth Warren is the clear favorite candidate. About 21 percent of Independents who are considering but unsure about Joe Biden would prefer Elizabeth Warren to be the Vice Presidential nominee. No other candidate earns over 5 percent among this group. In other words, among voters who are considering but less sure they’ll vote for Biden, Warren leads 4-to-1 against the next nearest candidate. In contrast, Harris’s support is driven by voters who report that they’re already planning to vote for Biden and will definitely do so."

Wait I just noticed this part of your post

Quote :

"satisfied independent voters than unsatisfied progressives. "

Has someone polled unsatisfied progressives? If so I haven't seen it

[Edited on July 21, 2020 at 9:47 PM. Reason : E]

7/21/2020 9:39:31 PM

Biden's interviews are reminding me of GWB. Is the shift to the right by both parties so large that Biden and Dubya might have similar political values?


[Edited on July 22, 2020 at 12:59 AM. Reason : maybe it's just their gaffes]

7/22/2020 12:56:55 AM

Quote :

" Has someone polled unsatisfied progressives? If so I haven't seen it"

You posted the poll?

7/22/2020 1:24:33 AM

Nope, the word "progressive" isn't mentioned a single time so you're looking at the wrong thing

7/22/2020 7:38:24 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand Susan Rice's low ratings."

Clintons.

7/22/2020 10:41:18 AM

Why's that?

7/22/2020 12:39:41 PM

For the graph above, that is a breakdown of preference in each category and doesn't account for overall preference. I did not dig it, but it wasn't immediately clear to me that the top first box wasn't 80% of independents, followed by 10, 5, and 5 for the next groupings.

If a third of 90% (27%) of voters who are enthusiastic are happy and want Kamala, then why would anyone kowtow for the half of 5% wants Warren (let's call it 3%)?

7/22/2020 1:41:14 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-says-trump-is-americas-first-racist-president/2020/07/22/867017e8-cc4b-11ea-bc6a-6841b28d9093_story.html

7/22/2020 5:00:59 PM

I mean, Woodrow Wilson wasn't no saint.

And does that make Biden the second racist President, or...
https://www.leftvoice.org/joe-biden-is-a-racist-who-loves-police-brutality

7/22/2020 5:33:20 PM

^^^i mean I think the paragraph I posted answers some of your numbers questions, but as to your other questions I suppose it depends if you'd rather shore up already likely votes, or solicit less likely votes. Also, something I don't think the poll asks is if a VP choice would make you LESS likely to vote. However it does ask if VP will affect your choice and Warren is favorite among people who say yes.

^^Biden is like a fail son with black voters, tons of Obama inherited goodwill among Black voters, and he acts as if he won that goodwill himself and is owed it.

[Edited on July 22, 2020 at 6:35 PM. Reason : E]

7/22/2020 6:34:29 PM

Quote :

" Nope, the word "progressive" isn't mentioned a single time so you're looking at the wrong thing"

Come on man, most of the independents unsatisfied with Biden are uber progressive. Of course they will be unsatisfied. I’d rather focus on a larger piece of the pie.

7/22/2020 8:22:25 PM

You have almost zero evidence of that claim. But regardless, seems like a politician should spend more time hunting down unsure voters rather than enthusiastic voters.

7/22/2020 8:31:17 PM

Not if winning over the smaller “unsure” vote turns off sure vote

7/22/2020 10:17:38 PM

You love making up hypothetical situations to base your argument, but that case is somewhat covered as well Warren leads among all independents for first choice, but also leads when asked for 2nd choice. Also Warren is the candidate overwhelmingly supported by those who say VP choice is important (as I posted above), supporters of the other VPs say they are likely to vote for Biden regardless.

7/22/2020 10:50:45 PM

Liberals: No one's saying Trump is the first racist president

Biden: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/22/biden-trump-first-racist-president-378834

7/23/2020 12:56:09 AM

7/23/2020 3:34:31 AM

^^ lol, it’s hilarious seeing people reach for gaffes.

It was an idiotic thing to say but we have MAGAs now going back in history and yelling “see, Trump isn’t as racist as Woodrow fucking Wilson.

7/23/2020 8:37:20 AM

Let's not start calling every extremely stupid or ignorant thing Biden says a "gaffe". He said it because he believes it. He (and HCH too for that matter) doesn't understand racism. Let alone the fact that something like 8 presidents owned slaves.

7/23/2020 9:50:53 AM

I would argue that Trump is probably the first racist president who is 1. openly racist and 2. racist in a way that fits the definition of racist at the time he was elected.

Like obviously we've had presidents who have owned slaves and slavery is morally disgusting, but it wasn't considered wrong by the majority of the electorate at the time

7/23/2020 10:31:01 AM

Either way, it's laughable that what he said would be considered a gaffe. Especially when the defense of that is 'Nuh uh, Wilson was way more racist'

7/23/2020 10:35:46 AM

In modern Era LBJ probably fits both of your criteria. And slave owners were definitely openly racist, although I'm not sure how you quantify the definition of racism at the time. I for sure bet Black people considered them racist, if not the electorate.

As for the gaffe, it may not have been one but it was certainly dumb and wrong. Conservatives partly only use WW bc the slaveowners are still defied.

7/23/2020 10:46:51 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/]

Quote :

"The day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People’s Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. “Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—damn them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh."

[Edited on July 23, 2020 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]

7/23/2020 10:55:07 AM

^ Right, but that was a private phone call.

^^ Maybe a third qualifier of 1. openly racist. 2. The majority of the electorate thinks it's racist and 3. The majority of the electorate thinks it's wrong?

idk, again, I agree kinda a dumb statement, but I think we should recognize that Trump being so open with his racism is a first in the modern era.

7/23/2020 11:14:25 AM

Yea i think the keys there would be definition of "open". Regardless Biden didn't give the qualifiers and I think everyone is mostly on the same page. Biden also has the benefit of running against Trump, so things that otherwise might be crippling ("you're not black") fade into the background.

7/23/2020 11:25:27 AM

I don't think this gaffe would have killed anyone. Attacking the opponent is one thing, attacking his base is another, ie Clinton's 'deplorables' comment was a rallying cry for the base.

7/23/2020 12:00:13 PM

Yea maybe not but I think it would certainly get more attention if he was running against a Mitt Romney type

7/23/2020 12:20:53 PM

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon

7/23/2020 12:31:08 PM

Well I guess time to reset the "rwoody/bbehe non-contentious posts" count to zero! 5 may be a record though.

Guess I thought the fact that Biden's flaws are being hidden/downplayed bc of his opponent was an interesting discussion point rather than a nonsense hypothetical.

7/23/2020 12:42:09 PM

I mean, I sincerely doubt he'd ever call a Romney type racist, if he did, of course it would be a huge gaffe. Romney, at least in my opinion, isn't racist. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but he isn't racist. So people would have a right to look at that statement with a huge amount of skepticism.

As far as other gaffes, they don't stick because they aren't big deals and Biden has kind of built himself as a character of 'Aw shucks, I didn't mean to say that' type of guy. When he does make a mistake 'You ain't black', he apologizes for it and owns up to it.

7/23/2020 12:47:13 PM

Lyndon B. Johnson wasn't openly racist, was he?

7/23/2020 12:54:46 PM

^depends on your definition of open, I'm not sure he made public speeches but he didn't attempt to hide it in conversations with fellow lawmakers

Quote :

"mean, I sincerely doubt he'd ever call a Romney type racist, if he did, of course it would be a huge gaffe. Romney, at least in my opinion, isn't racist. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but he isn't racist. So people would have a right to look at that statement with a huge amount of skepticism. As far as other gaffes, they don't stick because they aren't big deals and Biden has kind of built himself as a character of 'Aw shucks, I didn't mean to say that' type of guy. When he does make a mistake 'You ain't black', he apologizes for it and owns up to it."

OK yes I agree that his openings for gaffes against a normal candidate would be less as well, bc he would have less to respond to. I'm not sure if he he would have tried that "you ain't black" against someone that is basically Trump but better at pretending the policies are for something other than racism, like say Tom Cotton, but to your point its impossible to suss out that hypothetical. I think that comment in specific was pretty bad even with the apology, but maybe it never comes up without Trump.

I also would agree that it's a double edged sword, of course. Flaws get hidden but so do positives, like his speeches getting far less coverage.

I don't know the 2016 and, especially, 2020 elections just seem super unique bc of the unwavering attention given to Trump by the media. In 2016 that maybe harmed Clinton but I think it's helping Biden in the days of covid and BLM.

7/23/2020 1:08:01 PM

Just to be clear, I don't think Biden could beat an incumbent Romney type candidate. Let's say we live in bizarro world and Kasich won in 2016. Biden wouldn't be the candidate to beat him.

For 2020? Biden I think had the best odds to beat Trump. He's a 'return to normalcy' to some center/center right voters and he can't be painted as a boogeyman by the Trump Campaign. Sanders would have been easy to paint as some scary communist monster.


Hence my comment of 'if my grandma had wheels...' it's impossible to answer hypotheticals of 'Well what if Biden said X about Y', because he likely never would have said it to begin with.

[Edited on July 23, 2020 at 2:02 PM. Reason : a]

7/23/2020 1:59:37 PM