well wecant pop both but yea recklessness can be pretty painful for them :p

4/14/2006 2:05:43 PM

why can't you use both? are they on the same timer or something?

because one is a general talent (retaliation) and the other is zerker stance (recklessness), right?

or am i just making shit up in my mind?

note: never played a warrior, so i was just thinking of the ridiculousness of it... i have seen the scenario minus the recklessness (dual wielding v. MS who pops retaliation that results in the fury warrior just getting destroyed)

4/14/2006 2:12:22 PM

each of our 3 minute timers (one for each stance) are on the SAME 30 min cooldown which can be blown with an MC cap

retalliation only seems like a general talent because its the battle stance one and you start out with battle stance so its the first cooldown you get. but its not a regular combat ability

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ]

4/14/2006 2:13:30 PM

Luci's Guards MC A Warrior
Intimidating Shout
Priest is feared into the room on the left
raid wipes

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 2:29 PM. Reason : sp]

4/14/2006 2:29:22 PM

any encounter where a warrior/MT can get MCd a GOOD warrior is blowing their intimidating shout everytime the cooldown is up (ie hakkar). that way when/if they get MCd the raid doesnt wipe.

plz to tell your warriors this.

[Edited on April 14, 2006 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

4/14/2006 2:33:55 PM

Quote :

"retalliation only seems like a general talent because its the battle stance one and you start out with battle stance so its the first cooldown you get. but its not a regular combat ability "

well on the website, Retaliation is listed under "General Abilities" rather than "Battle Stance Abilities"

so i figured it might not be one of those cooldowns... oh well...

4/14/2006 3:20:15 PM

yar that there ability be requirin meh battle stance

4/14/2006 4:50:30 PM

Just did a ZF run with 3 mages and 2 priest... was quite fun

4/14/2006 5:11:28 PM

super

4/15/2006 12:09:14 AM

3 mages doesn't seem unusual to me but just having 2 priests makes it interesting.

4/15/2006 12:22:25 AM

^ yea. ive done it with 1 mage before. and as little as 2 priests. tho not at the same time.

4/15/2006 12:59:56 AM

You guys will thank me for this.

http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2419

Must have mod, decreases your loading time between instances/zones by 5-10 times.

4/15/2006 1:17:24 AM

^^ ZF with as little as 2 priests...you spoiled

4/15/2006 1:38:29 AM

there was a guild migration to that mod as soon as we switched to the pvp server GG 2.3 second load times.

4/15/2006 1:56:12 AM

LEEEEROYYYYYYYYYY JENKINSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

4/15/2006 2:12:52 AM

50 dkp minus

4/15/2006 2:36:57 AM

^^^^ oh wow..i read that as ZG >.< havent heard anyone talk about ZF in forever

4/15/2006 2:45:48 AM

http://ianknauer.com/Onyxia%20Wipe.swf

now in visual form

4/15/2006 2:48:53 AM

ZF is fucking easy

^o my fucking god what the fucking hell

is that real audio from a raid?

[Edited on April 15, 2006 at 3:05 AM. Reason : -]

4/15/2006 3:01:22 AM

Haha, yeah I read that as ZG too. Why would you even post about ZF? No one gives a fuck.

4/15/2006 3:34:35 AM

^^ Yeah, the audio was posted like 8 pages back or something, this is a flash "illustration"

4/15/2006 4:01:46 AM

More dots, more dots.....

4/15/2006 10:07:07 AM

dots = dps?

4/15/2006 11:53:56 AM

Damage Over Time

4/15/2006 1:07:46 PM

Quote :

" for serious, fury warriors are a joke."

You've never seen a goood fury warrior, or someone thats geared for fury (ms gear and fury gear are really differant.) We have 5 fury/arms ( 3 DW, 2 2-handed Slam) and 2 fury/prot warriors out of our 10 actives. Last MC run, our top 5 Damage slots went Rogue (CTS/Brutality), DW warrior (AQR/Brutality), Rogue (Claw Of the Black Drake/Fang of the Faceless), 2 handed Warrior (KR - Slam build), 2 handed warrior (Untamed Blade).


Fury warriors destory in PVE, and in group PVP you can tear shit up.

4/15/2006 1:43:59 PM

gotcha

i wonder what the accent is though....something middle eastern maybe-

[Edited on April 15, 2006 at 2:29 PM. Reason : -]

4/15/2006 2:28:57 PM

finnish

^^ and yea fury just takes the right gear and understanding of the spec.

im still MS because i love it for PVE. but both fury and MS are viable

[Edited on April 15, 2006 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/15/2006 3:17:33 PM

that why i like levelling, and i like pugs....but really being so serious about a GAME takes all the fun out of it. it turns into a competition rather then something fun.

4/15/2006 3:22:39 PM

Quote :

"Fury warriors destory in PVE, and in group PVP you can tear shit up."

Who cares about PVE, DPS warriors don't exist in real raid instances. Once you get past Molten Core, warriors never remove their shield. And yes, in PVP, non-MS warriors are a joke. It's all about burst dmg in PVP, and your piddly 600 dmg Bloodthirst crits don't cut it. Every Fury warrior I've ever known switched back to MS once they realized how useless it was in PVP and that no one cares that you can get #1 DPS in Molten Core because we need you to tank in BWL/AQ.

4/15/2006 3:40:18 PM

er my post was wrong, i was reading the other one. im still MS beause i play the game 99% for PVP not PVE and i really like it there

and PS ^

my guild cleared BWL and i went sword and board maybe like on broodlord fighting for aggro, um offtanking stuff to chromaggus..and i believe thats it?

sometimes i was able to go 2H the entire way and just dps.

now AQ sounds like itll be totally different.

[Edited on April 15, 2006 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/15/2006 3:56:47 PM

Hurray, I just got my worthless Infernal summon spell.

4/15/2006 4:00:38 PM

omg i just hit 20 on my rogue
i think this is all i can accomplish in this game.

4/15/2006 5:13:16 PM

my god i was just skimming this page and it looked like you guys had all become a bunch of furries

4/15/2006 5:31:09 PM

Quote :

"Hurray, I just got my worthless Infernal summon spell."

on the part to summon the elite now myself

4/15/2006 5:56:48 PM

Quote :

"now AQ sounds like itll be totally different."

it wont be different. dont worry

4/15/2006 6:36:46 PM

so i can still do DPS in raids ?

i was under the impression that you needed more tanking warriors for that

4/15/2006 7:53:57 PM

I do believe that we wtfpwnt Lucifron, Magmadar and Onyxia tonight.

Hella good time!

4/16/2006 12:35:46 AM

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?1175414

4/16/2006 1:19:01 AM

Quote :

"#1 DPS in Molten Core because we need you to tank in BWL/AQ."

On wednesday, we cleared to Nef in BWL... and only 5 of our warriors ever had to put on their shield... the other two stuck with their 2-hander the whole time

4/16/2006 4:42:02 AM

you may have to tank trash mobs in aq cause there's a few 6-8 bug pulls, but for the bosses... 5-6 tanks is all you'll need. we just have "dps" warriors tank skeram and sartura adds

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 12:38 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2006 12:37:36 PM

Why the hell are you bringing more than 5-6 warriors on your raids? You have a shortage of rogues/mages/hunters or something? Our normal raid build is something like 5-6 warriors, 6-7 rogues, 3-4 warlocks, 4-5 hunters, 5-6 mages and the rest healers. I mean, DPS warriors are great but they will never outdps a well equiped rogue/mage/hunter consistently.

4/16/2006 2:32:55 PM

because maybe once youve gotten an encounter/instance down as a guild you dont worry as much about class balance and should still be able to beat it. thus you bring whatever ppl show up on time and need/deserve the loot.

is it worth it to say oh! well..you were on time but youre a warrior..this rogue is showing up 10 mins late and he has a reserved spot.

if you know what youre doing as a guild you should have a lot of leeway as far as class balance unless youre learning aq right now or something

4/16/2006 2:44:16 PM

Molten Core aside, which we hardly even do anymore, class balance is still pretty important for almost all 40 man raids, even with encounters that we "have down". I get what you're saying, but bring 8 or more warriors to a raid just isn't very smart, especially if you're short on healers or ranged dps. In our guild at least, we only have 6 main raiding warriors anyway, the rest are alts or members who joined understanding they wouldn't be given a raid spot unless someone forfeited their spot. We're not a guild that's into gearing up alts.

In any case, nothing is more annoying than wiping because some warrior was still swinging his 2hander after a tank or two had died and he needed to step up and take over.

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 3:06 PM. Reason : :]

4/16/2006 3:03:09 PM

You can fudge class balance for MC raids because it was broken down into general skill sets:

Tanking
Healing
Melee DPS
Castor DPS
AoE
Disease/Curse control

This made it easier to exchange different classes for spots since there's a lot of overlap within the categories. Take a warlock instead of a mage or a druid instead of a priest, for instance. It didn't really matter.

Class design still doesn't, to an extent, matter for BWL and AQ. However, boss designs are shying away from the "press one button lolz" dps/heal design of MC and require more specific skillsets from each member.

4/16/2006 3:57:05 PM

true enough

Quote :

"In any case, nothing is more annoying than wiping because some warrior was still swinging his 2hander after a tank or two had died and he needed to step up and take over."

people just have to be smart and adjust. in that case your warriors were just being retarded

we brought (within reason) the first 40 ppl online for a raid with small adjustments. i think we had as much as 11 warriors one night for BWL.

i have no personal experience in AQ40 so i cannot comment on class balance importance in there.

4/16/2006 4:06:34 PM

dps warriors can tank without problem ... you can tank most of the trahs mobs with 2-h'rs just toss on your tanking gear for bosses. it's reallynot that complicated

4/16/2006 4:11:28 PM

Quote :

"We're not a guild that's into gearing up alts. "

rofl, i hope you were being sarcastic.

4/16/2006 5:29:15 PM

I doubt it. for the longest my guild banned alts on raids... then we started falling short on some classes but still had 5--10 person benches. so I finally wised up those fuckers :x lesson : recruitment is not always the key.

4/16/2006 9:40:13 PM

Quote :

"Who cares about PVE, DPS warriors don't exist in real raid instances. Once you get past Molten Core, warriors never remove their shield. And yes, in PVP, non-MS warriors are a joke. It's all about burst dmg in PVP, and your piddly 600 dmg Bloodthirst crits don't cut it. Every Fury warrior I've ever known switched back to MS once they realized how useless it was in PVP and that no one cares that you can get #1 DPS in Molten Core because we need you to tank in BWL/AQ."

shrike, i am willing to bet you have not killed a single raid mob that i havent. DPS warriors are usefull beyond MC, they have to be SMART though. we take anywhere from 3-8 warriors to bwl/aq.

Meanwhile, you need teh following for tanks

BWL:
Razorgore: 2
Vael: 3
Brood: 4
Firemaw: 2
Ebonroc: 3
Flamegor: 2
Chromag: 1, 3 for TL
Nef: 3


AQ40:
Prophet: 6 Okay, you win
Bugs: 5
Battleguard: 5 (3 of which become dps after thier adds die)
Fankriss: 2
Huhu: 1 horde, 2 alli
Emps: 3, sometimes a 4th just to taun/tank for 3-4 seconds on a mutate/teleport
Viscidus: 1


So even with a balanced raid you have 2-3 warriors dpsing full time in BWL, and up to 4 dpsing on fights on AQ40.

If you think dps warriors are a waste on a raid, either your guild doesnt know how to utilize incredable melee dps, or your warriors suck ass.


O, my bloodthirst crit record is around 1500, and heroic strikes for 1700ish on cloth

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 9:45 PM. Reason : damage]

4/16/2006 9:41:43 PM

what people being closed minded about class rolls .... blasphmy

4/17/2006 12:48:21 AM