Quote :

" Are guns taxed and regulated in the same manner? I forget. "

Did you seriously just ask if guns are regulated?

4/7/2016 9:14:53 PM

no, I asked if they were regulated and taxed with the same scrutiny and restrictions. you were the one making the comparison, not me.

[Edited on April 7, 2016 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/7/2016 9:16:27 PM

yeah you're definitely trolling

4/7/2016 9:17:19 PM

if you say so

4/7/2016 9:18:36 PM

I wonder if bills rant will rally white voters or push blacks towards Bernie. I can't believe it wasn't calculated though.

4/7/2016 9:21:44 PM

Quote :

"Here, I'll spell it out for you. A - You support suing gun manufacturers for misuse of their products. B - What other manufacturers do you support suing for misuse of their products? I provided some examples, but feel free to supply your own."

So just gun manufacturers then?

[Edited on April 7, 2016 at 10:52 PM. Reason : ^ calculated how? He was defending himself and his record ]

4/7/2016 10:45:48 PM

Its ok that she called them superpredators because most of the people he mass incarcerated were gang members who had been feeding crack to 13 year olds and making them go kill black lives.

4/7/2016 11:12:58 PM

just getting back to this....

Quote :

"That pesky second amendment"

there is nothing in the second amendment that guarantees instant background checks. which is what bernie wants. and it's that want that lead him to vote against bills that would have given longer periods for background checks to be completed. which is how he helped enable the charleston loophole.

Quote :

"rampant gun love culture"

i never said love. but I did originally say his actions helped directly lead to the rampant gun culture we have now. had he acted in the interest of all people instead of the rural white folk, it's possible we could have better background checks than we do right now. instead, his "i only serve the people of my district/state" approach to gun control has been detrimental to reigning in firearm violence. it's not the only place where his ideology is completely unrealistic. but it is the one that has cost innocent lives.

Quote :

"Why should manufacturers be sued for gun deaths?"

never said those words. typical of you to read whatever you want in to statements.

Quote :

"And if we're going to start suing gun manufacturers for misuse of their products then who's next? Pharmaceutical companies? Companies who make baseball bats? Fertilizer? Fireworks? Dildos? Baby blankets?"

none of those products are designed with the sole function of being able to kill something with a single trigger pull. when baby blankets start being made of asbestos and have razor blades on the inside, we can talk. BTW, there is more federal oversight on the sale of fertilizer than there is on the sale of guns. but good job, good effort.

Bernie Sander's stance on gun control is especially hilarious since he thinks that (even if he has since qualified his statements) that the singular act of voting for the iraq war is a disqualifying act. there were 4,425 service members killed in iraq. that's about 2 months worth of firearm related deaths in America. what is a bigger threat to the average us citizen? the mass proliferation of firearms or ISIL?

i'm pro-gun in the sense that I believe people should be able to have guns for self defense and hunting. but I am also pro-extensive federal background checks, closing the gun show loop, limiting purchases, limiting concealed carry, massively increasing training and requiring federal licensing, and taxing the shit out of firearms and, more importantly, ammunition. I was in ordnance and anti-terrorism for 5 years in the military. I have put more rounds down range than 99% of the civilians in this country. i believe in the 2nd amendment, but not the perverted representation that the NRA has and not what Bernie Sanders believes in.

4/8/2016 12:48:42 PM

ignoring the rest of your post bc its already been covered, how many civilians have died in the Iraq war? you conveniently ignored them.

or do you think only US lives matter?

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 1:31:09 PM

Quote :

"none of those products are designed with the sole function of being able to kill something with a single trigger pull."

Which gun manufacturers legally produce and sell. We're discussing whether people should be able to sue those manufacturers for misuse of their products or not, and despite paragraphs of arguments against those who are against that idea, you haven't said if you're in favor or said suing or not...you've only said you didn't say they should be able to be sued. Nice trolling. Great success! Feel free to actually join the conversation at any point here.

Quote :

"However, just like DUIs, the car maker isn't responsible, the gun maker shouldn't be responsible for shootings. Obviously there are exceptions if the manufacturer is not following gun control regulation/proper selling laws, but again, I fail to see why they should be punished."

Quote :

"when baby blankets start being made of asbestos and have razor blades on the inside, we can talk"

Except those wouldn't be legally sold products. Get that weak shit out of here.

Quote :

"BTW, there is more federal oversight on the sale of fertilizer than there is on the sale of guns. but good job, good effort."

Bullshit ^ (Bullshit * Bullshit)

Quote :

" I have put more rounds down range than 99% of the civilians in this country."

Cool that totally qualifies you to

4/8/2016 1:49:48 PM

New from Smith & Wesson: Baby Shot! Specifically sized and formulated to murder infants and toddlers.

4/8/2016 2:21:34 PM

keep posting more false analogies. yesterday was fun.

4/8/2016 2:31:26 PM

look, i cant stand how guns are revered in the US. dont like them, dont want one, wish theyd go away. but guns are manufactured for defense and sport. civilians using them otherwise is against the law. not a false analogy. saying they're made for killing is accurate, but irrelevant and misleading.

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 2:46 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 2:46:07 PM

and furthermore, the reason gun manufacturers were given this partial immunity is because they were being continuously targeted by frivolous lawsuits with the intention of forcing them out of business.

4/8/2016 2:50:57 PM

Do bow manufacturers have the same protection?

I get the problem with my analogy, there just aren't that many bow-related deaths to warrant a real discussion. But I'm just trying to think of other products that would fall under your description of being made with the sole purpose of killing something.

Which isn't even true. Some manufacturers make match-grade guns that are really too heavy and unwieldy to be proper killing machines. Their sole function is target shooting.

4/8/2016 3:05:00 PM

Quote :

"or do you think only US lives matter?"

Bernie's quote was that Hillary needs to apologize to the people who had lost loved ones in Iraq. If you think he was referring to anything other than the US lives, I have a bridge to sell you.

but if he was, according to the Iraq Body Count project (https://www.iraqbodycount.org/), approximately 242K people died in Iraq since 2003 (including at the hands of ISIL). In that same amount of time, we have had ~415K firearm deaths in the united states. We have more people dying in our country from guns than have died in a country that has been involved in a war since 2003.

Quote :

"Except those wouldn't be legally sold products."

right. a product whose likely outcome is to cause harm or death can't be legally sold.

unless it's a gun.

thanks for making my argument for me.

Quote :

"that totally qualifies you"

It qualifies me to know more about what proper firearm training, maintenance, and safety is that the idiots that can buy them at a fucking corner store. like a gun nut who leaves a loaded gun on the back seat of her car. or has a loaded gun in her purse, which her toddler uses to kill her.

that's what "being a professional" is. having the experience, education, and history with an issue that allows you to speak more intelligently about it that some shitposter on a message board.

I mean fuck someone being educated and experienced, right? isn't that the rallying cry of the tea party?

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 3:05:32 PM

Quote :

"thanks for making my argument for me."

Except you haven't made any arguments here. You've just derided the arguments of others.

Like I said:

Quote :

" Feel free to actually join the conversation at any point here."

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 3:15 PM. Reason : I too shot guns in the military. That's totally pertinent to this conversation ]

4/8/2016 3:14:25 PM

did you shoot guns or did you send rounds downrange? I need to know your level of tacticool.

4/8/2016 3:18:43 PM

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 3:22:47 PM

Hey goalie, what destroyer were you standing on in that picture?

Yea yea, I'm too lazy for a pm today.

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 3:38 PM. Reason : Or was it a destroyer?]

4/8/2016 3:38:13 PM

^^ lol nice edit

don't wanna claim being the victim of an ad hominem attack anymore? I assume that's because such an attack requires the victim actually taking a position.

4/8/2016 3:38:52 PM

nah, i just let it go. like you guys give a shit anyway. it's useless arguing with ideologues like you. doesn't mean I'm gonna stop shitting on bernie thou.

that pic was from the USS Porter (DDG 78)


anyway, did we miss this mother jones bit taking bernie to task for his holier-than-thou stances on past clinton votes?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-voting-history

I appreciate the top comment being "your bias is showing" after a fairly reported article that shows bernie has made his fair share of votes that he now decries as bad

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 4:18:39 PM

So you interjected yourself at length into a conversation about the right to sue gun manufacturers, but still won't share your position on the issue.

That makes you The E Man of the Soap Box. Congrats for that.

4/9/2016 12:13:18 AM

FOH

ive disclosed my positions on everything and was the one calling "moderates" out for not explaining the things that made them moderates. Still havent gotten answers btw.

4/9/2016 12:55:56 AM

Quote :

" look, i cant stand how guns are revered in the US. dont like them, dont want one, wish theyd go away. but guns are manufactured for defense and sport. civilians using them otherwise is against the law. not a false analogy. saying they're made for killing is accurate, but irrelevant and misleading."

Look, man I don't expect most other people to be as anti-gun as I am. I've had personal situations with gun violence that make me an outlier, but I'm fine with that. We can go around in semantic circles and play cute with analogies all we want, but I'm going to get straight to the point and discuss my problem with Sanders' 'gun values'. He went out of his way to defend gun manufacturers because it was politically convenient. I recognize that most gun manufactures follow the law, but I don't really give a shit. seriously, they can all go fuck themselves.

4/9/2016 3:01:01 AM

So what other manufacturers do you wanna sue for misuse of their products?

[Edited on April 9, 2016 at 12:08 PM. Reason : It's a pretty simple question that you're strangely unable to answer ]

4/9/2016 11:58:42 AM

he doesn't care because he doesnt like guns. it's any means necessary so it doesn't matter if he's inconsistent

4/9/2016 12:28:05 PM

he's busy searching r/the_donald and r/hillaryclinton for his position

4/9/2016 2:52:07 PM

7 wins in a row the floodgates are open

4/9/2016 7:22:25 PM

dat 180 proof 7-7 delegate split floodgate

4/10/2016 10:02:24 AM

Quote :

"So you interjected yourself at length into a conversation about the right to sue gun manufacturers"

first of all, i made the first comments about bernie not ever apologizing for anything gun related. it was bbehe that then came in and started asking me why gun manufactures shouldn't be sued. which is why I then came back and reiterated I never said anything about suing gun manufactures. so you can go fuck yourself for saying I'm the one doing the interjecting.

what i was speaking to is his insistence that instant background checks are a realistic thing. it's idiotic and speaks to his inflexible nature as an ideologue. it's his gun ideology that helped defeat longer periods to execute background checks which in turn opened the Charleston loophole.

but he won't apologize. that pivot he mane in that video from being asked about apologizing for his past gun votes to demanding hillary clinton apologize for iraq - something she has done over and over - was cowardly. bernie won't admit his weakness on guns.

[Edited on April 10, 2016 at 10:24 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2016 10:18:07 AM

you're confusing weakness with rational boundaries

just like republicans are called "weak" on abortion when they don't push legislation that imposes irrational limitations

4/10/2016 10:45:26 AM

do you guys really think hillary or anyone is going to make it illegal to manufacture guns?

4/10/2016 11:32:00 AM

^^^

Quote :

"Feel free to actually join the conversation at any point here"

4/10/2016 1:55:26 PM

This debate is going to be fun.

4/14/2016 9:09:26 PM

Best debate from either party this election cycle. A few too many insults at the beginning for my taste, but it has been overwhelmingly focused on real issues and records. I feel like I have a much better understanding of both platforms. It hasn't changed my mind about who I support, but I feel a lot better about either becoming the candidate.

That being said, how did they let Hillary get away with jabbing Bernie for criticizing Obama, and then she threw the president under the bus on Benghazi?

[Edited on April 14, 2016 at 10:40 PM. Reason : -]

4/14/2016 10:34:08 PM

Hillary slipped into a southern accent just to say North Carolina, while listing states she's won that aren't in the south.

4/14/2016 10:58:11 PM

^wanna hear an accent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDQ1vIuvZI

[Edited on April 14, 2016 at 11:00 PM. Reason : .]

4/14/2016 11:00:31 PM

Sanders did pretty poorly in the first few minutes, absolutely tore it up after that. Probably his best debate.

4/14/2016 11:25:44 PM

Lol she is a master of smoke and mirrors in the debate. Legendary debater and speaker. She must have really said some damning stuff in those goldman sachs speeches.

4/14/2016 11:50:39 PM

Its almost unacceptable that he hasn't released his tax returns yet. Huge blunder because it allowed Clinton a deflection point when she was pressed on transparency. It hurts him more because he's supposed to be the clean one.

4/14/2016 11:55:30 PM

Why the hell hasn't he released his tax returns? Unless, it was a calculated move.

[Edited on April 15, 2016 at 12:05 AM. Reason : d]

4/15/2016 12:05:13 AM

Quote :

""It's easy to diagnose the problem. It's harder to do something about the problem.""

Pretty much the difference in the two campaigns right there.

I was pretty amazed that Bernie doubled down on his "the south doesn't matter" rhetoric. I can't believe his campaign hasn't course corrected on that given the diversity in upcoming states.

as the post-game discussion mentioned, clinton missed a big opportunity to hit Bernie over Israel when he was going in on her about AIPAC, given the fact he hasn't been to AIPAC. it was good to have discussion about Israel and Gaza to the lengths they did. but again it boiled down to the quote above. Clinton has operated in reality on the issue. Bernie continues to talk in unobtainable hypotheticals.

also, the audience on both sides was horrendous. just shut the fuck up already.

[Edited on April 15, 2016 at 9:01 AM. Reason : .]

4/15/2016 8:57:58 AM

Clinton had years to do something about the problem in Gaza. And what did it lead to? Another war. Bernie wouldn't have to say anything about disproportionate responses if she had done something when she had the chance.

Hillary has not provided a solution on ANY problem other then "we will work hard to fix it!" So what has she really done beyond diagnosis? Bernie has offered plans and she's shot them down as idealistic and unobtainable. But where are her answers?

And you're upset that a bunch of New Yorkers were rowdy during a public event? How are you even surprised?

4/15/2016 2:51:53 PM

Are we pretending like she didn't have a plan for Syria and Libya? It was a really terrible plan that she shouldn't be allowed to dodge the criticism about.

4/15/2016 3:01:24 PM

^But didn't you hear? That was Obama's fault.

4/15/2016 3:25:19 PM

Quote :

"I was pretty amazed that Bernie doubled down on his "the south doesn't matter" rhetoric. I can't believe his campaign hasn't course corrected on that given the diversity in upcoming states. "

West Virginia, Kentucky, and Maryland aren't exactly southern. The southern states are long done.

You are correct with the notion that the campaign made a mistake but it would be bad taste to spin it at this point (clinton type stuff). It was a monumental error not to compete in those southern states but its over now. It would have been nice to at least put his name out and have a smaller, more realistic margin of victory in those southern states because then we'd be talking about bernie locking up the nomination pretty soon. Now, we can look back at the south as the reason the lead is nearly insurmountable.

Quote :

"Bernie continues to talk in unobtainable hypotheticals."

What has bernie proposed that you think is unattainable or are you just exaggerating "difficult"

4/15/2016 3:59:55 PM

I can't believe Hillary gets away with the "I have more votes than Trump!" rhetoric. In all those southern states where she won, the Republicans WAY outnumbered the democrats. Only reason she can say what she's saying is because of the other Republicans running. Bernie is the ONLY candidate to have actually won over 50% of a single states votes from both party caucuses/primaries combined (Vermont and Hawaii). I think Cruz came close in Wyoming, but Hillary's votes in southern primaries say nothing about her November electability.

4/15/2016 4:32:43 PM

Obamacare is an incremental improvement but its far from perfect and a yuge disappointment given the context.

The incremental change bit and "stay the course" just don't hold weight anymore. Its the democrat version of trickle down at this point. Obama and all of the establishment democrats had two years to do absolutely anything they wanted to do and all they mustered was a law that forces everyone to buy their own health insurance. Sure, 90% are insured, but a lot of people have to break the bank to buy insurance or are left with the affordable option of paying a fine for nothing.

They did one big thing and they didn't even get that right. To me thats further evidence that they don't really want any of the things they talk about. The secret is out.

4/16/2016 12:37:51 AM

Its a sad news when you have to rely on foxnews as the only major network to cover historical events

Quote :

"According to campaign comms director -Prospect Park rally was "biggest ever" at 28,356 attendees for @BernieSanders"

People as far as the eyes can see.

[Edited on April 17, 2016 at 5:42 PM. Reason : MEDIA BLACKOUT]

4/17/2016 5:40:55 PM