until a person has been in the position of choosing whether or not to murder someone - they should not judge

4/27/2010 10:00:45 PM

Quote :

"until a person has been in the situation of a woman who has to choose whether or not to have an abortion - that person shouldn't judge."

Unless it is a woman i plan to marry or do not mind dealing with (and giving money to) I have 0 ZERO qualms about them getting an abortion.

I got plenty of baby batter to make more with. No point on wasting $$ on some slore that would otherwise go to my unborn child within a marriage to my future wife.

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 10:09 PM. Reason : l]

4/27/2010 10:08:42 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/us/politics/22abortion.html?_r=2&hp

Quote :

"Across Country, Lawmakers Push Abortion Curbs Newly energized by their success in November’s midterm elections, conservative legislators in dozens of states are mounting aggressive campaigns to limit abortions. The lawmakers are drafting, and some have already introduced, bills that would ban most abortions at 20 weeks after conception, push women considering abortions to view a live ultrasound of the fetus, or curb insurance coverage, among other proposals."

Quote :

"Although social issues were often played down in the campaigns, many of the newly elected governors and legislators are also solidly anti-abortion, causing advocates of abortion rights to brace for a year of even tougher battles than usual. The biggest shift is in the state capitols, with 29 governors now considered to be solidly anti-abortion, compared with 21 last year."

Quote :

"In 15 states, compared with 10 last year, both the legislature and the governor are anti-abortion, according to a new report by Naral, and those joining this category include larger states like Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, as well as Georgia and Oklahoma. Maine and Pennsylvania are now strongly anti-abortion as well"

1/22/2011 4:01:00 PM

Quote :

"until a person has been in the position of choosing whether or not to murder someone - they should not judge"

Was this supposed to be pro-choice?

1/22/2011 4:53:47 PM

it shouldn't really be a surprise that its a top issue. for people that believe that a fetus is alive, abortion is murder. murder is generally a pretty serious issue.

1/22/2011 8:35:15 PM

Quote :

"until a person has been in the position of choosing whether or not to murder someone - they should not judge"

Whenever two humans interact they are in that position what is your point?

I and other humans routinely kill animals that seemingly have more sensory and cognitive ability than infants let alone fetuses. There are also already waaaaay too many people on this earth.
Abortion isn't a happy thing but I would rather have aborted fetuses than unwanted children consuming resources.

[Edited on January 22, 2011 at 9:09 PM. Reason : that sounded kinda creepy...]

1/22/2011 9:09:09 PM

This issue is going to get a heck of a lot more complicated when we create artificial life.

1/22/2011 9:25:00 PM

^If you build a cylon, but never turn it on, is that abortion?

1/22/2011 9:34:33 PM

Republicans will flip flop on this issue?

1/22/2011 9:54:24 PM

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

1/24/2011 7:10:39 AM

So can anyone tell me what happened to hooksaw?

I have not seen his rational, well thought out posts here in TSB in awhile

Did he get aborted or is he hanging with Trig Palin these days?

Inquiring minds wish to know

1/24/2011 7:44:09 PM

Fuck you South Dakota

S.D. governor signs law requiring women to wait 72 hrs for abortion, undergo counseling http://wapo.st/gCgRsX

3/22/2011 12:47:13 PM

I just don't get the Republican (generally speaking) mindset:

"I hate giving poor people money and I hate preventing poor people from having more babies."

3/22/2011 1:44:03 PM

I know. how dare you actually have to think about the life you are about to murder. We should be able to get drive-through abortions!

3/22/2011 2:15:48 PM

Abortion is not murder.

3/22/2011 2:26:26 PM

let's see... you deprived a human being of life without their consent or due process. yep, that's murder

3/22/2011 2:28:10 PM

A fetus is not a conscious lifeform. It has no rights.

3/22/2011 2:39:03 PM

I'm not just talking about abortion either, defunding Title X and Planned Parenthood is fucking retarded.

3/22/2011 2:44:07 PM

only, it is. saying it isn't doesn't make it so. nice try, though.

3/22/2011 2:44:18 PM

Fetuses are conscious? wat?

3/22/2011 2:45:16 PM

so, if this isn't a human being, then I don't know what is...




but hey, are retards really "conscious?" well, if not, let's snuff em out, right?


it's ok, dude. you have no problem murdering people for convenience. there's no shame in that. You are just in the league with Hitler, Stalin, and the like

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 2:50:05 PM

Actually since 'fetus' is used to describe a developing mammal after the embryonic stage but before birth, I'd say at some point during gestation (after the proper neural physiology has developed and activated) the fetus has consciousness. I get (but don't necessarily agree with) late term abortions equivocated with murder, but not in first and early-second trimester abortions.

And since aaronburron vomited all over the page, I'll repost my point:

Quote :

"I'm not just talking about abortion either, defunding Title X and Planned Parenthood is fucking retarded."

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 2:52:46 PM

yes. because PP doesn't have enough money on its own to operate it's murder clinics. Look, if people thing it's a valuable thing, why don't they just donate their own money to it, instead of stealing other people's money to support causes they might have a moral abhorrence to?

^ look, if you can't stand to see what you actually support, then maybe you should reconsider your position.

3/22/2011 2:57:48 PM

lol, who said I can't stand to see it? I was referring to the fact that you pushed the text down with images. Your stupid-ass shock treatments designed to distract from scientific fact don't phase me any more than the bullshit does on the brickyard.

Defunding Title X and Planned Parenthood gets rid of all federal funding for family planning and contraception.

Keep trying the appeals to emotion though.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 3:02:22 PM

^^maybe you should vote with your feet and consider moving to South Dakota

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:02 PM. Reason : damn arrows]

3/22/2011 3:02:24 PM

Quote :

"so, if this isn't a human being, then I don't know what is..."

That's a human being, all right. The question is if it is developed to the point where it can be considered a conscious human being.

Quote :

"but hey, are retards really "conscious?" well, if not, let's snuff em out, right?"

Sure they are. They are capable of personal volition, although to a simpler degree than fully-functional people. As far as those in a vegetative state, I cant really answer your question, but studies have shown (controversial) evidence of awareness. Then again, you can't really be sure that anyone other than yourself is conscious, but you can reasonably assume in most cases.

Quote :

"Actually since 'fetus' is used to describe a developing mammal after the embryonic stage but before birth, I'd say at some point during gestation (after the proper neural physiology has developed and activated) the fetus has consciousness. I get (but don't necessarily agree with) late term abortions equivocated with murder, but not in first and early-second trimester abortions."

My fault, I don't know my biology terms. IMO it really gets into the gray area when the fetus starts to feel physical sensation (around 24 weeks).

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 3:02:50 PM

Quote :

"The question is if it is developed to the point where it can be considered a conscious human being."

irrelevant. it's a human being. All human beings have rights. that you devalue some over others is telling. again, feel no shame over being on the same level as Hitler and Stalin

3/22/2011 3:05:42 PM

You pro-lifers are such dumb fucks.

Quote :

"stealing other people's money to support causes they might have a moral abhorrence to? "

Many US citizens had a "moral abhorrence" towards the war in Iraq (or war in general). Many citizens have a "moral abhorrence" towards eating fucking meat. SO FUCKING WHAT? There are a shit ton of things that our government does that I have a "moral abhorrence" towards I deal with it. Why can't you?

3/22/2011 3:05:53 PM

Quote :

"irrelevant. it's a human being. All human beings have rights. that you devalue some over others is telling. again, feel no shame over being on the same level as Hitler and Stalin "

Hyperbole? Hyperbole hyperbole HYPERBOLE. Hyperbole hyperbole.

3/22/2011 3:08:43 PM

Quote :

"Many US citizens had a "moral abhorrence" towards the war in Iraq (or war in general). Many citizens have a "moral abhorrence" towards eating fucking meat. SO FUCKING WHAT? There are a shit ton of things that our government does that I have a "moral abhorrence" towards I deal with it. Why can't you?"

that you are willing to do so says a lot about you. if you have an actual moral abhorrence to something, I'd think it would compel you on some level to change things. But really, you have no problem with forcing someone to pay for something that might go against their religious beliefs? Typical liberal


^ I'll take that as an admission that you can't defend your murdering beliefs. I guess that whole "All men are created equal and have certain inalienable rights" thing isn't important to you. typical liberal.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 3:11:02 PM

Quote :

"that you devalue some over others is telling. again, feel no shame over being on the same level as Hitler and Stalin "

Pretty much ever war is devaluing certain human lives in favor of others. Where is your moral outrage? How about this. If you have such a problem with abortion DON'T GET ONE.


[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:22 PM. Reason : posted it VVVVV]

3/22/2011 3:12:14 PM

^^
K, troll. Why does an unconscious lifeform deserve rights? "Because it's human" is not a sufficient answer.

Also would like to ask: do you think abortion is wrong in EVERY situation? This including when the mother was raped or when she has a high risk of death during delivery (but the baby will live).

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 3:13:08 PM

Quote :

"Pretty much ever war is devaluing certain human lives in favor of others. Where is your moral outrage?"

I'd say that we should avoid war as much as possible. I see no conflict there.

Quote :

"How about this. If you have such a problem with abortion DON'T GET ONE."

if you have such a problem with murder, don't kill people, right? No need to outlaw murder, right?

Quote :

"Why does an unconscious lifeform deserve rights? "

It doesn't "deserve rights." IT FUCKING HAS THEM. That's what a fucking right is, dumb fuck. Typical liberal, not actually understanding what a right is

Quote :

"Also would like to ask: do you think abortion is wrong in EVERY situation? This including when the mother was raped or when she has a high risk of death during delivery (but the baby will live). "

I'll ask you this: do you think those are even close to a reasonable percentage of actual abortions performed?

3/22/2011 3:16:17 PM

Quote :

"IT FUCKING HAS THEM"

I didn't ask that. I asked why you think it should have rights.

Quote :

"I'll ask you this: do you think those are even close to a reasonable percentage of actual abortions performed? "

No, but I want your opinion so I can see where you stand.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:19 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 3:18:38 PM

why should the sky be blue? why should grass be green? why should the sun be hot? why should you have skin? why should water have 2 Hydrogen atoms and one Oxygen atom?

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 3:18:51 PM

^
Those are all products of nature. The belief that an unconscious human lifeform should have rights is a man-made concept, and is debatable.

3/22/2011 3:21:50 PM

Quote :

" " that you are willing to do so says a lot about you. if you have an actual moral abhorrence to something, I'd think it would compel you on some level to change things. But really, you have no problem with forcing someone to pay for something that might go against their religious beliefs? Typical liberal""

Since you seem to think that only religious beliefs count try this one on for size.
Quakers have a fundamental moral abhorrence of war. Somehow they still have their money "stolen" to pay for war efforts. How can you make them fund something that might go against their religious beliefs??????

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:24 PM. Reason : fixed]

3/22/2011 3:21:51 PM

Quote :

"Those are all products of nature. The belief that an unconscious human lifeform should have rights is a man-made concept, and is debatable."

you don't get it. the concept of a righ, is not something that you argue over whether something should have. It either does or it doesn't have it. there is no "should."

Quote :

"Somehow they still have their money "stolen" to pay for war efforts."

and, again, we should minimize war. your point? War will happen, whether you like it or not.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:37 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 3:25:53 PM

I gave you a clear example of another faith having "their money stolen" to support something they have a "moral abhorrence" for.
Here is your response:

Quote :

" and, again, we should minimize war. your point? War will happen, whether you like it or not."

Where is your outrage? Should I be spewing pictures of slain civilians and children crying to make my point? You want to talk about valuing one human life over another it seems right now like you are valuing a clump of cells in a womans uterus over a fully functioning humans in other countries. You might want to step back and think about that.

What about Muslims? Government funding goes towards alcohol and pork production and I think they have a problem with the ingestion of those products. Where is your outrage? THERE MONEY IS BEING STOLEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3/22/2011 3:37:42 PM

Quote :

"you don't get it. the concept of a righ, is not something that you argue over whether something should have. It either does or it doesn't have it. there is no "should.""

Uhhh, no. That is absolutely ridiculous. You're just avoiding my question because you don't know how to answer it.

3/22/2011 3:38:47 PM

unless you move away from any and all nations, your nation will be involved in a war. It is inevitable. Abortion is not. There's the difference. My claim, then, that we should minimize war, is logical, as it minimizes a situation that I do not like.

^ uh, no, that's actually how it fucking is. What part of "All men are created equal and have certain inalienable rights" do you not comprehend? You just don't accept a basic tenet of our nation, which is why you propose laws and ideas so anathema to it

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 3:39:11 PM

It is intellectually dishonest of you to compare an fetus with undeveloped neural physiology to an "unconscious person"

A fetus without a functioning nervous system is not a person. An adult human that has been decapitated is not a person for the very same reason.

3/22/2011 3:39:23 PM

i see. so when your father is decapitated, you will just walk all over his remains and piss on him and let the dog chew his flesh off, right?

3/22/2011 3:41:51 PM

Quote :

"^ uh, no, that's actually how it fucking is. What part of "All men are created equal and have certain inalienable rights" do you not comprehend? You just don't accept a basic tenet of our nation, which is why you propose laws and ideas so anathema to it"

Quote :

"An appeal to law is a logical fallacy which occurs when one argues that something must be morally wrong because there is current legislation against such, or, more rarely, when one argues that something must be morally right as there is no legislation against it."

3/22/2011 3:43:06 PM

not even close. at no point have I pointed to a law as a reason for something being morally right. you lose. good day sir

3/22/2011 3:44:49 PM

Quote :

"i see. so when your father is decapitated, you will just walk all over his remains and piss on him and let the dog chew his flesh off, right? "

So corpses are people too? I wonder if corpses and fetuses should be given the right to vote?
You are one crazy ass christian...

3/22/2011 3:45:38 PM

well, hey, if a corpse is no longer a person, and we ignore it completely as if it never existed, then why even have wills? why have estates?

again, I'm not the one arguing that we should suck babies out of women's stomachs and suck their brains out with a vacuum cleaner. I'm not the arguing that we devalue human life when it is convenient to do so. you are one evil ass Nazi

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:48 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 3:47:31 PM

Quote :

"not even close. at no point have I pointed to a law as a reason for something being morally right. you lose. good day sir"

YEAH-HUH!

3/22/2011 3:48:28 PM

please, show me where I even mentioned a law and then said it showed something was moral.

3/22/2011 3:48:58 PM

Quote :

""All men are created equal and have certain inalienable rights""

This was your reasoning for unconscious fetuses having rights. That is appeal to law

(Note: "law" can refer to any formal societal concept)

3/22/2011 3:52:10 PM