See, you don't know what rape is like. For years, I thought it was funny. Oh, yeah, rape. It's so funny. Until you been raped.

I don't know if I believe in God, but... I think he must hate me. Because he allowed you to create a dog that constantly rapes me.

5/19/2016 9:25:30 PM

Handbanana NO!!

5/19/2016 10:28:05 PM

that two souls explanation sounds like how a virgin would explain sex to a 6th grader

5/20/2016 5:47:24 AM

The only thing dumber than this thread itself is The E Man thinking that calling it dumb must be justified somehow.

5/20/2016 7:34:25 AM

But everyone calling this thread dumb is proving Grumpy's point.

I think one reason we all feel rape is the worst of the worst is because it is a sex crime. And I think we tend to lump all sex crimes in together, which brings to mind any sex offender. While rape is heinous, I don't think anyone would argue that pedophiles are the worst of the worst, yet pedophilia is still a sex crime, and we tend to treat all sex criminals the same.

I mean there aren't publicly accessible, free websites that you can go to that show you where all the rehabilitated murderers are (I realize murderers are far less likely to be released from prison than sex offenders, but it would still be good to know).

Plus, there is an idea that sex offenders can not be rehabilitated, and that they are "diseased" with no cure. And I think the evidence somewhat proves that. Many sex offenders that serve their time and get released go on to do it again.

So the act of rape itself is horrible, yes. But maybe rape is so bad because of the types of people that do the raping.

5/20/2016 8:33:13 AM

No, they aren't. That's dumb, too.

5/20/2016 8:33:32 AM

you guys are seriously intruding on froshkiller's safe space without so much as a trigger warning

5/20/2016 9:40:06 AM

Quote :

"The only thing dumber than this thread itself is The E Man thinking that calling it dumb must be justified somehow."

gotta be fair and balanced.

Quote :

"So the act of rape itself is horrible, yes. But maybe rape is so bad because of the types of people that do the raping."

jesus fucking christ. this is the new "at least he was hot."

[Edited on May 20, 2016 at 9:45 AM. Reason : .]

5/20/2016 9:44:30 AM

I feel like it's been a long time since TWW made the local news. This thread may remedy that.

5/20/2016 9:48:01 AM

Quote :

"gotta be fair and balanced."

Here we are with this again.

I don't want "fair and balanced." I really don't. When steve9194 used to post in here -- he may have been a little before your time, but at any rate, he was an unashamed white supremacist, anti-semite, and nazi -- I did not give his opinions equal weight. I did not think they merited the same treatment as mainstream opinions. However, I was willing to explain to him why I thought his opinions were so vile, misguided, and factually incorrect that they did not merit serious consideration.

And do you know what? In doing so, I became a better thinker, grew my understanding of the enemy, and clarified my own positions.

You are unwilling to type even a few words expressing why you think my thread is so stupid. But you are perfectly happy to come in here again and again to say that it is stupid.

That's stupid.

Quote :

"This thread may remedy that."

How do you figure?

Quote :

"And I think we tend to lump all sex crimes in together"

There may be something to this. I didn't want to be too broad because I think the answers to my questions for, say, child molestation are a lot more obvious and clear-cut. But in general, yes, we treat all sex crime as particularly abhorrent (hence Law & Order: SVU).

Is there a good, satisfactory reason for this? In the past it would have fit with what we claimed our values to be -- in this case, that sex is gross, polluting, sinful, whatever. Nowadays, though, a lot of people claim to be much more liberated on the subject; sex can be anything, recreational, stress-relieving, social, life-affirming, etc. Variations on the traditional heterosexual monogamous relationships are increasingly embraced. In that context, is there a reason for "sex crime" to be especially bad?

Again, I certainly do think rape in particular and sex crimes in general are worse, but again, I'm not sure I can give a good 21st century reason, a cerebral rather than largely emotional one.

Apparently several of you guys think you have one, but you're unwilling to share.

5/20/2016 10:16:44 AM

Double post: I'm wondering if maybe part of the issue here is perceived inflection?

I asked, "Why is rape so bad?" Which I suppose could be read as questioning the badness in and of itself, without adequate emphasis on the "so."

Whereas read as it sounds in my own head, with the emphasis (Why is rape so bad?), it inherently confirms that rape is bad and seeks clarification on the reason behind the degree.

If I hate on Arby's food and someone says, "Why is Arby's so bad?" it could easily mean that they like the food and are wondering why I don't.

If I hate on Arby's food and the person says, "Why is Arby's so bad?" the clear implication is that they agree with me, are emphasizing how terrible the food is, and abstractly pondering how it could arrive at being so terrible.

Anyway, if this is the case -- not that anybody would admit it -- I apologize that my knowledge of formatting does not extent to italicizing something within the bold.

5/20/2016 10:22:40 AM

you just compared the act of rape to motherfucking Arby's.

ARBY'S!

5/20/2016 10:39:09 AM

You look immature when you call something dumb but cant explain why you think its dumb. It makes it look like you are rejecting it simply because it makes you uncomfortable and you couldnt be bothered with the critical thought required to articulate a supporting argument for "your" generic, inside the box opinion.

5/20/2016 10:50:02 AM

nah man, I've already explained why this thread is dumb. just because you don't like my answer, it doesn't mean that I'm being immature about a fucking "reasonable" rape discussion thread. shit, I'm immature for tons of other identifiable reasons, but saying the very premise of this retarded thread is flawed isn't one of them.

5/20/2016 10:52:35 AM

Quote :

"you just compared the act of rape to motherfucking Arby's."

No, I didn't. This isn't a point of debate; I obviously, self-evidently, manifestly did not compare the two things.

Quote :

"I've already explained why this thread is dumb"

Not really. You've said, "Asking why rape is bad is dumb because rape is bad," essentially. That's not an explanation, that's circular reasoning.

[Edited on May 20, 2016 at 10:56 AM. Reason : ]

5/20/2016 10:54:23 AM

5/20/2016 10:55:55 AM

Quote :

"you just compared the act of rape to motherfucking Arby's"

No he did not. That's very disingenuous.

5/20/2016 10:56:18 AM

The E Man continues to be as dumb as this thread.

5/20/2016 10:59:42 AM

Quote :

"Not really. You've said, "Asking why rape is bad is dumb because rape is bad," essentially. That's not an explanation, that's circular reasoning. "

Except that I already stated:

Quote :

"there's no fucking reason to discuss why rape is so 'bad'. It's the most brutal, carnal violation a human can endure and attempt to recover from"

It's very simple, really. You're just being obtuse and a contrarian because you're bored and want some weird type of validation or attention. I thought you were a lot smarter than this.

5/20/2016 11:00:28 AM

That was precisely the quote I had in mind.

"There's no reason to ask why it is bad, because it is bad."

Jesus.

5/20/2016 11:03:18 AM

I could see why trying to discuss how vile and evil rape is to a small child or mentally challenged person would be a worthwhile pursuit, but the way you're framing it- as a contrarian- shows a real lack of empathy and common sense. If your sister or GF was raped, do you really think you'd attempt to minimize it by saying: "let's reasonably discuss how you were violated. try not to get too emotional about it though!"

come. the. fuck. on.

5/20/2016 11:06:48 AM

Quote :

"It's very simple, really. You're just being obtuse and a contrarian because you're bored and want some weird type of validation or attention. I thought you were a lot smarter than this."

Weird, because I would have said that about you ITT. It's like you're trying to paint it as a conservative essay on why rape is good. Conservatives and liberals and in-betweens have all been interested in the discussion. Do you even understand how philosophy works?

If it doesn't interest you or you think the topic is stupid , just fuck off and don't read the thread. Seriously people like you are the reason this site is dead.

[Edited on May 20, 2016 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

5/20/2016 11:15:30 AM

Quote :

"Seriously people like you are the reason this site is dead."

Yah or Facebook/Reddit. Could go either way.

5/20/2016 11:20:05 AM

Nah it's you. Forums are alive and well all over the internet.

5/20/2016 11:21:51 AM

^^^ I haven't said a single word about partisan politics, so that's on you.

This thread reminds of the "dead baby, photoshop project". Most people ITT were horrified and offended, but the OP doubled down on her weird "logic", and then said it was everyone else who had the problem.

Sorry, but rape is inherently a volatile and sensitive topic. People get upset when you try to minimize it. It's not like I'm the only one in this thread that thinks this thread is poorly done either. But I guess it's easier to double down on faulty logic and make Arby's analogies than it is to admit you made a dumb thread.

[Edited on May 20, 2016 at 11:26 AM. Reason : .]

5/20/2016 11:26:18 AM

Quote :

"People get upset when you try to minimize it."

I don't see him trying to minimize it, just discuss it. And I seriously doubt he would ask this to a woman who was raped, because of course it would be insensitive. But this is just a discussion on a message board, which could be done logically and rationally if you didn't get all emotional about it.

5/20/2016 11:33:53 AM

Quote :

"If your sister or GF was raped, do you really think you'd attempt to minimize it by saying: "let's reasonably discuss how you were violated. try not to get too emotional about it though!""

No, I wouldn't.

But that isn't the standard for laws and it isn't the standard for civil discourse and debate, either. That kind of bullshit argument wouldn't hold up in a debate on capital punishment -- "If it were your kid who was murdered I bet you wouldn't be against the death penalty!" is a stupid thing to say.

We don't let victims decide the fate of perpetrators because the result is rarely good. In fact, I'd argue that a large reason we even have civil society, government, and rule of law is to prevent exactly that kind of reaction. The weaker those institutions are, the more blood feuds, vendettas, and revenge killings you have.

Victims of a crime are not the only people with legitimate claim to a position regarding that crime. It's true of rape just like it is of murder or theft.

Quote :

"Sorry, but rape is inherently a volatile and sensitive topic. People get upset when you try to minimize it."

It is inherently volatile and sensitive; all the more reason, I think to discuss it.

And I have not tried to minimize rape as a crime or a topic of discussion. On the contrary, I have repeatedly affirmed my belief in its gravity.

5/20/2016 11:35:35 AM

discussing why something is so offensive is not the same as minimizing it

nothing that GrumpyGOP has posted attempts to make an argument that rape is not bad nor does anything attempt to minimize how bad it is

5/20/2016 12:53:08 PM

Quote :

"If so, doesn't that feed right back into the old patriarchal thinking that women are fragile and must be protected by men?"

Women are fragile weaker and must be protected by men. And, given how we raise and socialize our children, some women are also quite fragile, timid, whatever...

And I guess, historically, rape is uniquely bad because the perpetrator is:

1) damaging another man's property in a way that cannot necessarily be monetized
2) potentially creating offspring who will illegitimately inherit wealth
3) something vague about honor and manhood

The potential to pass on genetic material is probably what makes it so instinctually bad to people, too.

5/22/2016 2:11:03 PM

^ Along with that, the possibility of passing along an incurable disease

5/22/2016 4:07:58 PM

Well there are different degrees of rape arent there? Its confusing because states call it differently but shouldnt there be like a 1st degree 2ns degree and manslaughter equivalent for rape?

5/22/2016 5:28:39 PM

You could make a thread about the advantages of shitting in your kitchen sink, and it would still be less dumb than this thread.

5/23/2016 7:04:02 AM

still trying to get attention itt? that's dedication.

5/23/2016 8:20:24 AM

BridgetSPK -- I think those are perfectly good historical reasons, but I don't think they apply to 21st century Americans. An exception is number 3, but even that hardly qualifies as a satisfactory, legitimate reason.

And "must be protected by men," as I understand it, is a rationale that would fly in the face of most feminist thinking (although "feminist thinking" is so fractured and scattered ideologically that I'm sure there are exceptions).

Quote :

"Along with that, the possibility of passing along an incurable disease"

This doesn't ring true, at least to me -- and neither does "passing on genetic material." Yes, those are both possible outcomes, but I don't think these issues are what get people especially upset about rape. "Incurable disease" is a relatively recent phenomenon, and pregnancy results in a minority of cases.

5/23/2016 11:01:53 AM

Imagine you were all developmentally disabled babies, and you held a grand convocation to discuss the best method by which you will fuck a mousetrap.

[Edited on May 23, 2016 at 11:25 AM. Reason : !]

5/23/2016 11:25:06 AM

imagine there is something that almost universally evokes a strong emotional response and you wanted to discuss what it was about it that made it evoke such a universally strong emotional response but some mop can't understand the difference between saying "why does it" and "why should it"

5/23/2016 11:40:29 AM

guys what if i'm the dumb one

5/23/2016 12:40:26 PM

feel free to attempt an articulate response to the prompt and prove everyone wrong about you

5/23/2016 1:53:16 PM

hey frosh if we're blowing hobos the wrong way how about you man up and show us how to do it right

5/23/2016 2:20:54 PM

glad we have a smart person ITT to put everyone else in their place in between visits to r/atheism

5/23/2016 2:27:59 PM

Man, I'm not speculating on y'all's dumbass Reddit habits. My opinion of you isn't low enough for me to assume you hit up Reddit, let alone an atheism subreddit.

[Edited on May 23, 2016 at 2:37 PM. Reason : Although this thread is admittedly dumb enough to fit right in on Reddit.]

5/23/2016 2:36:52 PM

next person to respond to this thread has an anteater dick

5/23/2016 2:39:12 PM

person who responded previously is glue and this post is rubber

haha, keep trying to pretend like you are an intellectual by hiding behind jokes when actually the topic is too difficult for you to articulate, you anteater dick

5/23/2016 3:43:38 PM

let's get down to brass tacks about why N DASH DASH DASH DASH DASH is such a problematic word

let's really unpack that

5/23/2016 3:55:46 PM

$20 that something that this guy has written has been posted to http://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

5/23/2016 3:59:00 PM

you make me touch your hands for stupid reasons

5/23/2016 3:59:49 PM

Quote :

"let's get down to brass tacks about why N DASH DASH DASH DASH DASH is such a problematic word"

Nugget?

Seriously, though, this is a thing that is discussed, at length, both within the black community and society at large. And what I don't frequently see is someone trolling around those debates saying, "It's dumb to even talk about this."

5/23/2016 5:06:43 PM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK -- I think those are perfectly good historical reasons, but I don't think they apply to 21st century Americans. An exception is number 3, but even that hardly qualifies as a satisfactory, legitimate reason. And "must be protected by men," as I understand it, is a rationale that would fly in the face of most feminist thinking (although "feminist thinking" is so fractured and scattered ideologically that I'm sure there are exceptions). "

I tend to agree with Bridget's analysis. We still live in a very patriarchal society, and I don't really see things changing anytime soon. A corollary to #1 of Bridget's list is that we're taught from a young age that sexual purity is a very prized possession, and rape takes this possession away from someone in a way that's perceived to be irretrievable.

Because it permanently removes innate derivative value from a person in a way other crimes don't, rape has this extra-bad connotation. If you could somehow convince society that sex is no big deal, and abortion is purely just a choice, then maybe rape would change to being perceived as just another type of physical assault.

5/23/2016 5:26:21 PM

rape is still viewed equally bad when its done to a man, and neither 1 or 2 are true about men

5/23/2016 6:32:29 PM

Let's take a step back from this debate, and discuss why sex is a big deal.

5/23/2016 6:38:12 PM