[Edited on April 18, 2020 at 11:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2020 11:21:27 PM

Quote :

"https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque"

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

4/18/2020 11:21:50 PM

Soap box is basically dead bc there isn't one single person to argue why Biden is good, just why he's marginally better than Trump

4/19/2020 12:48:29 AM

pretty sure there are other reasons

4/19/2020 3:19:16 AM

Supports 15 dollar minimum wage
Wants to codify Roe v Wade into law
Supports Universal Background checks
Would be a return to normalcy in international relations
Would appoint liberal judges to the courts
Would likely appoint qualified people to Cabinet positions
Supports band on private prisons
Restore funding to planned parenthood
And the list goes on....

But sure, only 'marginally' better than the guy calling for rebellion against governors.

4/19/2020 7:43:43 AM

I posted this in the primary thread, and I still think it’s a decent argument:

Quote :

" One thing that’s helped me step back from the ledge regarding Joe Biden: Take a look at the recent legislative history of Virginia. VA is hardly the pinnacle of progressivism. The past 20-30 years it’s been lurching between being a red state and purple. 10 years ago it got REALLY purple and recently has gotten pretty blue (hasn’t elected a Republican to statewide office in 10yrs or so). Despite that strong blue tint, its basically conservadem heaven. The perfect example is the governor Ralph Northam. The VAGOP actually recruited him to switch sides when he was in the legislature. There is that whole disgusting blackface fiasco, ugh. Again, not the pinnacle of progressivism. But check out the legislation he has signed since Dems were able to take over both houses of the VA legislature: -toughest gun laws in the Southeast -Ratified the ERA -repealed multiple layers of dipshit rules regarding abortion -$12 Minimum wage by 2023 -some of the broadest LGBTQ anti-discrimination laws in the country -new rules that make it easier for cities to dump confederate statues, they actually dropped Jefferson Davis day as a state holiday (or whatever it was). -repealed voter ID, made voting day a state holiday -new green energy rules that some have suggested could put VA in the top 3 states for clean energy production in a few years -there is a raft of justice system reform bills still in committee (including weed decriminalization) that many think still have a chance Taking all of these together, it still doesn’t have that much “WOW” factor if you’re progressive leaning. However, when juxtaposed next to the current trajectory of the federal government, or even the direct comparison between a divided neighbor like North Carolina, it starts to look pretty good. It just takes perspective."

4/19/2020 7:53:21 AM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-enthusiasm-exclusive-idUSKCN21X1AQ?utm_source=reddit.com

4/19/2020 9:18:20 AM

"i love governor blackface so much"

4/19/2020 9:23:02 AM

Quote :

"Supports 15 dollar minimum wage Wants to codify Roe v Wade into law Supports Universal Background checks Would be a return to normalcy in international relations Would appoint liberal judges to the courts Would likely appoint qualified people to Cabinet positions Supports band on private prisons Restore funding to planned parenthood"

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/07/joe-biden-abortion-rights/

Normalcy like the Iraq War? What does that even mean?

What in his past makes you think he'll nom liberal judges? Dude was key in getting Clarence Thomas through, you think he'll fight for liberal judges?

Did you see the cabinet list that was floated a month ago?

He shoulders a heavy load on mass incarceration, claiming to be against private prisons is pretty minimal especially considering some of his fundraisers and the actions Trump has taken for early release.

4/19/2020 10:20:09 AM

there are people who dont understand you can criticize someone, even harshly, and still vote for them.

4/19/2020 11:00:56 AM

People also change over time based on a variety of factors, primarily being what the voters want them to do.

4/19/2020 11:30:27 AM

It's possible. But also when someone has shown who they are for almost 50 years in the national spotlight, it's hard to believe they'll strongly pursue these policies that represent a significant departure from their past.

4/19/2020 11:39:10 AM

Quote :

"Normalcy like the Iraq War? What does that even mean?"

Biden admitted the war vote was a mistake, but that sentence means not shitting on our allies constantly like Trump has done.

Quote :

"What in his past makes you think he'll nom liberal judges? Dude was key in getting Clarence Thomas through, you think he'll fight for liberal judges?"

I mean, he helped Obama pick his picks

Quote :

"Did you see the cabinet list that was floated a month ago?"

Oh, the list that was pulled out of no where from axios? That no one else could back up and was denied?

4/19/2020 12:06:28 PM

Quote :

"People also change over time based on a variety of factors, primarily being what the voters want them to do."

I’ll try and find it but there was an empirical study about how Biden has been essentially the median Democrat his entire career. In other words he goes with the flow of the party, for better or worse. In the longer distant past it was more centrist/conservative and at times has been more progressive.

I mean, I’m not sure it makes at any better to have basically zero convictions but if the left of the party can get their views impresses upon anyone it’s probably Biden.

This isn’t the article I was referencing (I’ll still try and find it later) but the idea is the same:

https://prospect.org/api/amp/politics/biden-notwithstanding-its-biden-super-tuesday-democratic-presidential-primary/?__twitter_impression=true

[Edited on April 19, 2020 at 12:11 PM. Reason : X]

4/19/2020 12:09:28 PM

For the crowd that was mad at Warren (I consider myself disappointed but not mad), would a Warren VP make you more or less likely to support Biden?

Actually I guess this is just for dave bc dtr is toast and I don't care what Earl thinks.

4/20/2020 2:31:52 PM

I think Warren would be better off as a cabinet appointee than Biden's VP, personally; particularly in either the Dept of Education or Treasury.

I am unenthusiastic about Biden, but whoever his VP pick is won't change anything, and I doubt it will for most voters.

4/20/2020 2:47:06 PM

Luckily I wasn't asking about you or the majority of voters, i was asking about a very specific set.

However I think a Warren VP would pull in more than just about any other female that's been floated. And I personally would def be more enthusiastic with Warren on board.

4/20/2020 2:50:34 PM

I would have enthusiastically voted for Warren (and probably volunteered for her). I would definitely vote for Biden with her as VP. Unfortunately my reason for doing so - his mental deterioration - is a big reason why he'll probably lose to Trump. Best case is he picks her as VP and then is forced to drop out before November for health reasons. We can all dream.

[Edited on April 20, 2020 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2020 3:45:22 PM

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/20/donald-trump-joe-biden-2020-presidential-election-voting/

this is good

4/20/2020 5:31:49 PM

Quote :

" Most people on the left who oppose Biden but also view Trump as the gravest danger are going to vote against Trump by voting for Biden. But those who disagree with that strategy do not support Trump. For them, “He’s not Trump” is not a gamble worth taking. The onus is on the Biden campaign and its supporters to make their case to every eligible voter in this country and earn their votes. No one should be taken for granted."

The opportunity will be lost by democrats who automatically write anyone in this group off. Most of this group will not even provide the opportunity because it is no longer socially acceptable to come out with this view in public. No one will know how significant the numbers are until its too late like last time.

[Edited on April 20, 2020 at 6:01 PM. Reason : yep]

4/20/2020 5:59:47 PM

Quote :

"NEWS: Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers is advising the Biden campaign on the economy, among others. Many progressives have made clear they are not fans of his. https://t.co/oBeda5cQ8G"

4/23/2020 11:14:46 PM

New Evidence Supporting Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Joe Biden Emerges

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/24/new-evidence-tara-reade-joe-biden/

4/24/2020 4:43:42 PM

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/25/joe-biden-green-stimulus-207848

This made me chuckle:

Quote :

" Biden has loved talking about stimulus ever since he ran the Recovery Act, and he sounded comfortable returning to the topic from his Delaware home, although there were a couple of typically hard-to-follow tangents, and one brief coughing interruption that he attributed to swallowing a peanut the wrong way."

4/26/2020 8:57:40 AM

I can’t believe he just mixed up Pulitzer Prizes and Nobel Prizes (and couldn’t spell the latter). Trump, who actually is sharp as a tack is going to run circles over him.

4/26/2020 2:51:22 PM

ANGRILY EATING HAMBERGERS

4/26/2020 3:02:44 PM

https://twitter.com/richmchugh/status/1254811933531934721?s=21

Not really sure where we go from here.

It’s becoming increasingly untenable for Biden to not address this. And if he can’t address it substantively, he can’t be the nominee. Period.

No good options. Just bad ones. Reality is, sadly, like Trump in 2016 he will not drop out, will not pay a political price and we will fall further down the abyss.

4/27/2020 1:03:09 PM

"vetted"

Quote :

"There’s an article by a journalist named Alexander Cockburn who wrote about Biden praising racist, anti abortion judge Samuel Alito, and getting interviews from staffers and interns talking of Biden’s sexual advances towards them. This was published on August 23rd, 2008. https://t.co/rFZHkSY5Gd "

4/28/2020 9:52:55 AM

Full article

https://www.counterpunch.org/2008/08/23/quot-change-quot-quot-hope-quot-why-they-must-be-talking-about-joe-biden

4/28/2020 10:10:17 AM

From the counterpunch article:

Quote :

" Biden is a notorious flapjaw. His vanity deludes him into believing that every word that drops from his mouth is minted in the golden currency of Pericles. Vanity is the most conspicuous characteristic of US Senators en bloc , nourished by deferential acolytes and often expressed in loutish sexual advances to staffers, interns and the like. On more than one occasion CounterPunch’s editors have listened to vivid accounts by the recipient of just such advances, this staffer of another senator being accosted by Biden in the well of the senate in the week immediately following his first wife’s fatal car accident."

Biden’s wife and daughter died on December 18th 1972. Biden wasn’t sworn in to the senate till Jan 5th 1973. It seems like maybe these allegations didn’t get any traction in 2008 because .... they have no substance? The parts about Biden running his mouth too god damn much are legit though.


I’m still in wait and see mode on the Reade allegations. An inconclusive/sham investigation ala Kavanaugh, isn’t going to cut it this time either.

4/28/2020 4:02:43 PM

Sure it must be that. Not the fact that the world's attitude and attention to that type of behavior has gone through a seismic shift in the last few years.

Unfortunately the simplest explanation is to that, as recent as 2008, this type of rumor was barely newsworthy. The Clinton's were still buddy buddy with weinstein and epstein not too long ago. Heck, Bill Clinton himself is still only regarded as a creep by a small percentage of the population, and his behavior is known and admitted.

[Edited on April 28, 2020 at 4:08 PM. Reason : E]

4/28/2020 4:08:06 PM

You’re not wrong.

But that doesn’t explain why the timeline is off by 3 weeks.

4/28/2020 4:12:55 PM

Yea i wasn't intending that article to proof that Biden is an assaulter, just that rumors of his behavior aren't brand new.

And I mean, his inappropriate touching is on the record all over the place. He 100% with proof touches people in ways outside of social bounds without their consent, that alone could be excused as weird behavior from an old guy from another time (although it'd be nice if he stopped!). The question is, has he ever gone a step or two beyond that.

4/28/2020 4:17:39 PM

What I sincerely don't get is how often her story changed.

As late as last year, the story was there was inappropriate touching of the neck and shoulders. These were supposedly verified by the two or three people she claimed she told and no one else.

Fast forward to recently, it's now rape and she actually told more people. And those people now say it's rape as well? So in none of the investigation before one of them said "yeah, he touched her neck and then a whole lot more..."

Instead she waits until s
he's the presumptive nominee to change it to rape? In 2019, when he was lagging the polls, it was just touching?

Like, I'm not condoning the touching, but I just can't see her as reliable. The inconsistent stories, the odd online behavior, the fact that no other woman has accused him of rape.

In all honesty, this woman was likely touched inappropriately on the neck or shoulder. I don't condone that and as I've mentioned before, Biden was never my first pick. However, I don't see it as enough for me not to vote him over Trump.

[Edited on April 28, 2020 at 4:31 PM. Reason : A]

4/28/2020 4:17:47 PM

Those are almost word for word the defenses may conservative buddies used for kavanaugh. I mean who knows maybe all these women are just liars coming forward to fuck with people they don't like. We'll likely never know unfortunately.

It just sucks that the party decided to coalesce behind a guy with a known history of being inappropriate when there were numerous candidates without that history.

The whole situation sucks.

4/28/2020 4:30:12 PM

Which is exactly why I’m in wait-and-see mode on the Reade allegations.
^^ I, too, have seen parts of her story start to crumble.
^^^But at the same time, the BEST CASE SCENARIO, is that Biden is JUST a pervy, old man.



[Edited on April 28, 2020 at 4:36 PM. Reason : ^Blasely-Ford testified under oath, on National TV, and her story never changed.]

4/28/2020 4:33:00 PM

Biden will be a one term president if elected, that honestly helps me through this entire thing.

I hope he picks a good VP, someone like Tammy Baldwin would probably be enough to win the election

4/28/2020 4:34:28 PM

Yeah, I don't really see this anything like Blasey-Ford either. She never changed her story

4/28/2020 4:40:10 PM

Can you post where she changed her story? I never saw where she claimed it was touching on the head and necks.

4/28/2020 4:46:31 PM

I think you edited out the key part I was referring to, but since you took it out I won't bring it back up. I should have been more specific rather than implying I was describing the whole post

4/28/2020 4:48:33 PM

https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-woman-says-joe-biden-inappropriately-touched-her-while-working-in-his-u-s-senate-office/

Per this story, she was fired because she wouldn't serve drinks and it was just touching

4/28/2020 4:54:12 PM

Quote :

"Reade said she didn’t consider the acts toward her sexualization. She instead compared her experience to being a lamp. “It’s pretty. Set it over there,” she said. “Then when it’s too bright, you throw it away.”"

4/28/2020 5:00:06 PM

And now she's going directly to Fox News https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tara-reade-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-endorsement

4/28/2020 7:36:53 PM

Quote :

" just touching"

We've really come a long way

4/28/2020 7:52:45 PM

Nate Robinson over at Current Affairs coaching Reade only to respond to other journalists he thinks are “fair.”

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/04/evaluating-tara-reades-claims

Quote :

" Feminist writer Katha Pollitt also said it was “not a good sign” that the brother and friend “aren’t responding to reporters’ queries.” But the truth is they didn’t respond to Marcotte’s queries. They have spoken to multiple other reporters. Back before the story came out, I actually warned Tara myself during our conversation that it didn’t sound from Marcotte’s inquiries that she was interested in being fair and recommended being cautious about her. I think that concern was vindicated. "

This entire story is being curated by people who’s sole job is throwing bombs at the DNC. Reade needs a lawyer and we need a real investigation. Period.

[Edited on April 29, 2020 at 6:05 AM. Reason : Robinson also talked to the brother and the next day the bro “clarified” his statement to WAPO]

4/29/2020 5:46:38 AM

So she thinks Fox News is fair?

4/29/2020 6:55:17 AM

Probably not fair, but everyone knows Fox News isn’t going to apply a lot of scrutiny to a story that hurts Biden.

For all I know Fox is the last BIG network willing to print the story (I highly doubt that tho).

4/29/2020 7:21:31 AM

anyways, I hope we get the VP pick relatively soon

4/29/2020 8:05:22 AM

has he addressed the charges personally yet? you know, a video from his basement or something? i think id like that before a VP.

4/29/2020 1:30:34 PM

I am just shocked that this shit is being released now, and not later in the game.

4/30/2020 10:29:21 AM

Why? It’s not like it is GOP oppo.

4/30/2020 10:31:22 AM