sand ... 40 man raiding is pretty small in the grand scheme of most raiding games. eq raids were over 70


and there's only so many people you can kick out and replace. especially on older servers. the people just aren't there to bring in.

8/14/2006 1:56:38 PM

yea its just gonna be guild drama

even if you're in a guild with people who all want to go to the new content, you're going to end up screwing people.

and that means either A team/B team or guild split drama

8/14/2006 1:59:41 PM

Being in the end game and being a warrior at the same time is really hard. I got so burnt out on my warrior because all the decked out warriors were in the good guilds. You get stuck in the shitty unprogressing guilds if you don't keep up.

I rerolled a priest and it's much easier. You just apply to a decent guild and you get in, no problem.

UBRS can be a pain going for that one piece of gear. I think ZG/AQ20 can be some of the most rewarding. Reguardless of the time spent, you get the reputation. Then once you have the reputation, you only need one drop that can drop off any boss in there (ZG) and in AQ20 you need only a few other items to get your epic quest turn in.

8/14/2006 2:02:47 PM

You know what, I don't care.

The more I think about it, the more I know I won't bother with this.

WTB: Starcraft II, or Diablo III.

Peacing out of this thread.

Later guys.

8/14/2006 2:07:14 PM

Quote :

"is there a published loot table for naxx yet? its not on kaliban..."

yes . worldofraids.com

making an A and B team is going to be the distruction of many guilds. rotating in and out people between the raids is going to slow progression. what is the point of being a "hardcore" guild if you're not going to push through content ? shuold just sit in ironforge and strum your dick

[Edited on August 14, 2006 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2006 2:10:40 PM

personally im excited for just about everything i have heard in the expansion. maybe ill get to do nothing but PVP world/arena/and battleground and focus on my arena team for the gear since they said the best arena teams' gear will be as good as the best high end raiding gear

8/14/2006 2:17:08 PM

I'll say ... the rest of the expansion looks awesome


flying mounts A+

new stuff A+
etc


the guild thing tho :x sadpanda

8/14/2006 2:18:10 PM

understandable. altho my fav instances are always 5 and 10 mans. like trying to run bd strat as fast as possible and stuff with a few of my RL friends and some of the ppl ive played this game with a long time.

so the 25 man really appeals to me. id love 10 man epic dungeons even more heh. but 25 man i think for me will work out well

8/14/2006 2:26:20 PM

Quote :

"yeah blizzard crits but it kinda sucks anyway, hits for another 100 or so dmg."

Uh...no the fuck it can't.

8/14/2006 10:36:15 PM

Anything that is a DoT cannot crit unless it has an initial damage component. Then, only the initial damage can crit.

For instance, for me, Immolate normally hits for 400-500 initially then has a DoT afterwards. If it crits, it does about 900-1000 damage, but still has approximately the same DoT damage. DoT's like CoA and Corruption which do not have an initial damage component will never crit and will always do the same amount of damage (which changes slightly with +spell damage).

AoE's are the same way. Unless they have an initial damage, they will not crit. So AoE's like Flamestrike, Blastwave, Arcane Explosion, and Cone of Cold can crit with their initial damage. Rain of Fire, Hellfire, Blizzard, Consecration, and Volley cannot.

8/14/2006 11:49:07 PM

My guild has had two raiding groups for a long time, we call them MC1 and MC2. MC1 is close to finishing up AQ40 and MC2 kills Rag, and has never stepped foot into BWL. there isnt a "two seperate guilds" mentality at all either.

I'm not so sure why guilds are hesitant to have two raid groups in their guild. If you don't have a pool of people to pick 10 quality players from, then you have bigger problems then worrying about the new 25 man limit. Plus all the guilds whining about this can easily pick up 10 new people, run them through BWL and AQ40 w/little problem.

8/15/2006 9:09:44 AM

Quote :

"I'm not so sure why guilds are hesitant to have two raid groups in their guild."

Because it'll be fine on day 1 when 50 people in a proper class balance are on, then on day 2 when only 35-40 people are on and half are saved to instance A and the other half to instance B, then neither group can progress.

8/15/2006 2:05:57 PM

yeah, but most guilds at that high end are going to have more than 50 people on during raiding hours.

I just don't see too much of an arguement against 25 man raids. Also fuck DnT

8/15/2006 2:12:51 PM

my guild has 47 active accounts. that's it



on hellscream. you can't pick up 10 quality unguilded players. if you get apps they are from the hardcore raiders from smaller guilds wanting to move up. all that does is hurt the guilds they're coming from.


running 2 successful raids is going to be very hard to organize

like he said what if Raid A's priests show up but their warriors go to the beach house. and RaidB's tanks are here but the healers went on strike ? what are they going to do ?

how are you going to take raiders on the "edge of content" ie 8-12 bosses into Naxx and say "sorry, you're not good enough. we're sticking you on the scrub squad. hope ya'll do ok"

[Edited on August 15, 2006 at 6:09 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2006 6:04:41 PM

i've had a few brushes with "hardcore rading" guilds... those kids need to get a life - they run that shit like it was a business.... I say, I already have a boss in the real world, why do I want one in my GAME??

8/15/2006 7:02:49 PM

b/c you kill the bosses in WoW?

8/15/2006 8:14:27 PM

I just started up a new character. I went dorment. I had a hunter up to level 28 a couple months ago. I got bored and let the game go. This weekend a couple friends of mine started new characters and talked me into it so now I got a warrior going.

I forgot how much fun the lower levels were

8/15/2006 8:16:00 PM

i love my warrior. ive dabbled in low levels with a few classes and played friends chars but ive got too much time into my main to enjoy the others as much or something

8/16/2006 4:29:16 AM

what is the buff timer mod is this screenshot?

8/16/2006 3:07:15 PM

IT IS CALLED !!!!


Elkane's buffbar. I have it. I enjoy it throughly

8/16/2006 3:14:22 PM

isn't it elkano's buff bar?

8/16/2006 4:21:32 PM

Who here is in Battlegroup 7?

Alexstrasza Normal
Kirin Tor RP
Dethecus PvP
Destromath PvP
Blackhand Normal
Kael'thas Normal
Illidan PvP
Hellscream Normal
Balnazzar PvP
Gul'dan PvP
Gorgonnash PvP
Whisperwind Normal
Stormreaver PvP
Garona Normal
Cho'gall PvP
Alleria Normal --smoothcrim
Spinebreaker PvP

8/16/2006 10:57:22 PM

I am.

Morbidgorbag - Orc Warrior - Stormreaver Horde.
my roommate is a troll mage quimsham.

you alliance or horde? i forget

also porcha and shrike are in SR horde as well.
ironically orc warrior and troll mage

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 11:04 PM. Reason : ]

8/16/2006 11:02:50 PM

im an undead rogue

we should get together a team. after getting hwl I doubt you want to pvp much, but a group of my friends are aimed at making a gladiator 5man team and want all the practice we can get. I also happen to need the exalted defilers gear which is currently impossible to get on my server (alliance won't queue)

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : d]

8/16/2006 11:44:37 PM

yea i dono how Qing xservers will work trying to get in the same games etc. I still pvp quite a bit actually

8/16/2006 11:48:42 PM

im playing my undead warrior on hellscream and my alliance druid. i raelly never pvp onmy druid tho ;x <3 my warrior


about 2k from getting my shoulders. ab quit running on my server like .... 8 months ago :x

only av and wsg now



[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 1:00 AM. Reason : .]

8/17/2006 12:57:38 AM

Who here is in Battlegroup 7?

[tww name, wow name race/class] ummm warlock can be Wl and paladins don't get a letter

Alexstrasza Normal
Kirin Tor RP
Dethecus PvP
Destromath PvP
Blackhand Normal
Kael'thas Normal
Illidan PvP
Hellscream Normal -- [ssclark, (name?) UW]
Balnazzar PvP
Gul'dan PvP
Gorgonnash PvP
Whisperwind Normal
Stormreaver PvP -- [porcha, nerd OW] [CalledToArms, morbidgorbag OW] [Shaggy, shaggar OH] [Shrike, (name?) TM]
Garona Normal
Cho'gall PvP
Alleria Normal -- [smoothcrim, ripthejacker UR]
Spinebreaker PvP

just add yourselves to the list. there are 4 of my good real life friends also on alleria that all went to or still attend state, all with the best gear attainable before naxx. troll priest, undead warlock, tauren shaman, and tauren warlock. if we could get 15 we could all just force queue a number and keep it going. atleast that's how I've been doing it on the test realm

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 6:29 AM. Reason : .]

8/17/2006 6:28:42 AM

dunno what Battlegroup 7 is but I'm a

Aegwyen - 60 Mage ButtonPush
http://www.ctprofiles.net/3298262

8/17/2006 8:24:13 AM

Alexstrasza Normal
Kirin Tor RP --[Grandmaster, Druenn DR]
Dethecus PvP
Destromath PvP
Blackhand Normal
Kael'thas Normal
Illidan PvP
Hellscream Normal -- [ssclark, (name?) UW]
Balnazzar PvP
Gul'dan PvP
Gorgonnash PvP
Whisperwind Normal
Stormreaver PvP -- [porcha, nerd OW] [CalledToArms, morbidgorbag OW] [Shaggy, shaggar OH] [Shrike, (name?) TM]
Garona Normal
Cho'gall PvP
Alleria Normal -- [smoothcrim, ripthejacker UR]
Spinebreaker PvP


RP ftw! but not rly

8/17/2006 10:25:16 AM

^ haha alliance

8/17/2006 10:29:27 AM

sorry, we frown on those who roll easy mode here

8/17/2006 10:39:22 AM

http://ctprofiles.net/3316409

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason : :]

8/17/2006 11:17:25 AM

^^jealous

8/17/2006 12:26:29 PM

Battlegroup 10


Aerie Peak Normal
Altar of Storms PvP --- [Novicane, Healingu T/P]
Anvilmar Normal
Blackwing Lair PvP
Deathwing PvP
Demon Soul PvP
Doomhammer Normal
Gnomeregan Normal
Icecrown Normal
Jaedenar PvP
Kel'Thuzad PvP
Lethon PvP
Onyxia PvP
Sentinels RP
Tanaris Normal
The Venture Co RP-PvP
Uldaman Normal

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 12:32 PM. Reason : f]

8/17/2006 12:31:53 PM

Quote :

"troll priest, undead warlock, tauren shaman, and tauren warlock"

??

Battlegroup 4


Aggramar Normal
Burning Blade PvP
Burning Legion PvP
Earthen Ring RP
Eonar Normal
Eredar PvP
Gilneas Normal
Gorefiend PvP
Kargath Normal
Laughing Skull PvP
Lightning's Blade PvP
Llane Normal
Malygos Normal (stixman, Helerigord, UWl)
Shadow Moon PvP
Thunderhorn Normal
Thunderlord PvP




[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 1:17 PM. Reason : battlegroup]

8/17/2006 1:12:54 PM

Quote :

"We've kept a lot in mind while creating the arena system to help make it as centered on player skill as possible, and not time invested. We're looking to help create a place where players can track their achievements and improvements in a fun PvP environment. We're no strangers to the tactics and extent at which players will take a game to help ensure they reach their goal sooner or easier. It can however be minimized by simplifying a system so that the possible benefits available to a player are specific and tangible to everyone, and that the potential for exploitation is reduced as much as possible. With a complex system there will always be that something extra that can give you an edge over someone else, it's the size and availability of the edge that makes the difference though. We think we're making some great progress in creating place where players can come and test their PvP skill against others, have fun, and get some pretty cool rewards out of it too. Just because you asked, here's some more information on the arena system. Hopefully this quells some of your concerns, and squashes a few assumptions. Please keep in mind that this information is subject to change, but these are our current plans for the PvP Arena system in The Burning Crusade expansion. # When a player enters an arena battle, all buffs and conjured items are purged/deleted. This is done to ensure no outside buffs or items from members outside of your team are able to be used in an arena battle. # No consumables other than bandages and conjured items can be used while in the arena. There will be a waiting area similar to the current battlegrounds where players on the team will be able to conjure items and cast buffs. # Abilities/spells/items with cooldowns longer than 15 minutes cannot be used while in the arena. # Each arena team will be given a rating, and will be matched up in the arena queue against teams of a similar rating (matching within that specific cross-realm battlegroup). As time progresses the matching system will broaden its search up to a limit if a closely rated team cannot be found. # Ratings adjustments are made in the same way that ELO ratings adjustments are made. This system works by adjusting each arena team's rating from a specific match based on the rating of the team they are up against. If a team wins against a team of a higher rating, the increase of their arena rating would be much higher than if they had won against a team of a lower rating. This system will help promote players improving their skill and besting teams which may have previously held the top spots. # At the end of each week, characters receive arena points based on their team's rating. A team must have fought a minimum number of battles for the week, which we have announced as currently set to 10 games. A player must have played in at least 30% of the team's battles that week in order to be eligible to receive arena points. Each eligible player will then receive a fraction of the teams total awarded points to spend on arena rewards. # Players may spend their points on arena rewards, or save their points until they have enough to get the rewards they desire. # There is a limit to the number of points a player can stockpile, which is currently planned to be as high as the most expensive item. # At the end of a season, players on a team are given a title based on their team's relative position on the ladder which will last through the next arena season."

hell yea.

overview adding blue respones:

-no grenades, MC cap, rocket helm, nets
-any buffs requiring reagents are fine as long as their ability cooldown is <15 mins
-no pots, flasks, consumables period
-you will not see the team combination before you actually see them face to face in the arena
-it doesnt require you to pvp 20 hours a day 7 days a week to get the best gear (FINALLY) because all you have to do is participate in 30% of your teams matches and you get your full teams points for that week. so even if your team arenas for i dono 15 hours that day you could have gotten by with 5 and get the same benefit
-this should be a pain for scrubs who afkd in bgs and lost their way to decent ranks just by being on 24/7

I am really pumped about this. I will probably mainly do the 2v2 and the 5v5 one.

8/17/2006 3:43:58 PM

whoops, that should read tauren warrior

8/17/2006 3:49:54 PM

Hellscream - Undead warrior - Iamurfriend

8/17/2006 4:27:37 PM

I dunno about those changes. I have to PvP with the same team to get any points (at least 30% of the time anyway)? So I can't just log in and play around a little, I gotta make sure my teammate(s) is/are on? The consumable change is rather drastic, but I rarely use pots anyway...too expensive. Engineering is almost useless now though, except for world pvp stuff.

I feel sorry for mages. They'll have to conjure water/bread and cast buffs before every match.

8/17/2006 4:29:28 PM

and that sounds fucking awesome ... if anyone wants to get an arena team. i can probably move my shaman somewhere.

no it' just means you have to play atleast some with that team to be a part of it. sooo fi your "team" playes 30games you need to have been in 10 of them. the other 20 can be whatever. it makes sense. you arnet really a apart of a team if you dont play with them. you can probably pvp regularly and not earn points towards your team, but other points etc.



randomly ... wtf no recklessness ?

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 4:34 PM. Reason : c]

8/17/2006 4:31:40 PM

The arena system is also just ONE aspect of the new PVP system. There will still be BG type PVP, just without all the bullshit surrounding ranks and the current honor system. You'll build honor (or whatever they call it) and you won't lose it until you buy something. However, the best PVP rewards will be from the arena system and they will be equal to the top PVE gear.

8/17/2006 5:01:15 PM

exactly. the arena thing is just one part of the pvp in expansion.

2v2, 3v3, 5v5 arena.

world pvp objectives in every zone ("meaningful" world pvp)

the neutral/capturable town that can be air assaulted

new instanced BGs(caverns of time for some, meaning fighting 'historic' battles)

as well as not removing the old BGs

so the arena is just 1 of about 5 different ways to PVP come BC

8/17/2006 5:06:12 PM

I want to know if this means I can't use vanish, blind, poisons, etc. All of those require consumables. I also think you should be allowed to use pvp potions, mc cap, rocket boots, etc. If they want to tie this in to real world objectives and things, they should let your pve aspect atleast contribute to your pvp. Everyone still gets to come in in their naxx, bwl, etc gear, why can't I use my trinkets and crafted gear?

8/17/2006 5:21:49 PM

let me clarify from all the blue posts i have read.

- any ability that does have have a 15min or greater cooldown that requires reagents can be used. vanish, blind, poisons can ALL be used. prayer of fortitude etc also require reagents and can be used

however i disagree abotu what you were saying. i am VERY happy that no pots, no outside buffs, no flasks, no MC caps etc will be used in the arenas.

you can already use all those in world pvp and BGs. It will be nice to finally have something where the ONLY thing that is out of your control is gear. skill and group makeup is your burden. in a game like this this is the single most balanced thing they can do for PVP and it will be nice to have the arena for this option while still having the regular world and bg pvp options elsewhere.

even the gear to start out. naxx/aq40 gear wont be blown away but the blues/purples in the immediate end game even 5 and 10 mans will be equal or just barely behind on many levels from what blizzard has said.

they are not taking ANYTHING away from us. There will still be old AND new bgs as well as world pvp. they are simply adding a THIRD option (with 3 types of options within) with the most level playing field you can get

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

8/17/2006 5:48:27 PM

They should just go ahead and remove racial abilities too. Not that it really matters, group makeup and gear will determine the outcome before the match even begins much moreso than the larger matches. But I look forward to giving the arenas a whirl anyway.

8/17/2006 5:55:13 PM

racials are a part of the race. and any class with that race has those traits, and every race has traits. yes some are better than others but once again that comes down to group composure. no reason to disable them

8/17/2006 6:10:20 PM

I agree with the outside buffs and consumables not being allowed in Arena. However, I am VERY disappointed in Engineering stuff not being allowed. Correction . . . I understand Grenades. However, rocket helm and Gnomish Net is complete bullshit. The ENTIRE point of Engineering is pretty much PvP. Excluding reflectors and Repair Bot, it has little use in PvE.

If I want to nerf my stats and damage and use a rocket helm, that should be my choice. If I want to have a gimp trinket that can only net things every few minutes, I should be able to. Not to mention that they have occasional bad side effects. They probably are gonna rule out reflectors, dragonlings, and other Engineering gizmos.

Nerf Engineers more plz. Lets just make it completely useless.

8/17/2006 11:17:40 PM

as i said before there is no NERF. at all.

they ADDED a feature and arent allowing stuff there.

8/17/2006 11:36:38 PM

feral druid ftw?

8/18/2006 9:50:33 AM

BoK + Insipiration ftw

8/18/2006 9:54:05 AM