Semantics are fun like that! Forcing someone to pay a proportion of their income to support the welfare state is an egregious state of serfdom, so let's just take poor and homeless people and directly attach them to "the productive class" via umbilical cords, that way the Christian right will finally care about them!

2/23/2012 8:54:53 AM

Quote :

"I maintain that even by your definition a blastocyst/embryo/early fetus can't be "murdered", which is all I really have been arguing for the past few pages."

How would my definition allow for this?

And I think you are misinterpret the pOint about a court trial for those crimes. I'm not saying the legal definition is the real definition. I'm saying the vast majority of people , pro choice or otherwise, dont dispute those trials and rulings on the basis that they arent real murders (which means they have no personal objection to them), why then have a double standard for abortion? Double standards like this are generally due to cognitive dissonance.

Quote :

" If abortion is murder then forcing a woman to carry a child to term is slaveryy"

Abortion is murder, and of you somehow managed to force a woman to carry a child to term, that would at least some type of assault and probably kidnapping, maybe it's a form of slavery, but that definition doesn't really fit.

2/23/2012 9:23:49 AM

Quote :

"Abortion is murder, and of you somehow managed to force a woman to carry a child to term, that would at least some type of assault and probably kidnapping, maybe it's a form of slavery, but that definition doesn't really fit."

Denying abortion is forcing a woman to carry a child to term you nitwit. It's enslaving the woman to the "human" inside her, forcing her to work for the sustenance of another "person" against her will. Can you stop playing stupid semantics games now?

I mean seriously, you talk of cognitive dissonance but don't see how forcing somebody to essentially feed, protect, and literally carry a person around isn't slavery?

[Edited on February 23, 2012 at 9:31 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2012 9:28:28 AM

glad to see Virginia back down from their silly ultra sound thing.

Government mandated healthcare: UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Government mandated ultrasounds: BRILLIANT

2/23/2012 9:29:50 AM

Lol next time an abortion ban comes up I say we call it the "Fugitive Mother Act"

2/23/2012 11:05:46 AM

Quote :

"It would be murder actually, if you didn't get the requisite approval."

so approval distinguishes murder? I am confused. Any medical reason for terminating a life (ex: taking off ventilator, abortion) to lessen the pain, save the mother's life, give life a chance etc gets approval from a medically trained professional.

If we ignore the effects on quality of life we are essentially just driving our race into the ground. Science and medicine exist to improve the human race, not unnaturally drive populations to the limit. So we keep vegetables and unexpected clumps of cells just so today we can sleep at night? or do we continue the pursuit of improving conditions and quality of the human race?

2/23/2012 11:12:18 AM

Quote :

"Government mandated healthcare: UNCONSTITUTIONAL Government mandated ultrasounds: BRILLIANT"

This is a disturbing trend for the entire health care discussion that I rant about in other threads.

For some reason, politicians find it politically inconvenient to pay for create any way to help people to get health care. But because it sounds wonderful for everyone to be covered, they figure they'll just mandate that people do stuff and that insurance companies cover things. It defies logic.

People think of government as something that takes money and redistributes it. More often government tells you what to do, and this is far more important than any redistribution ever could be.

I don't care if this is democrat, republican, anarchist or whatever, but fuck government telling people what they can, can't, and must do.

2/23/2012 5:30:48 PM

Quote :

"I don't care if this is democrat, republican, anarchist or whatever, but fuck government telling people what they can, can't, and must do."

amen

2/23/2012 7:42:26 PM

^amen indeed

2/23/2012 8:46:22 PM

Quote :

"Denying abortion is forcing a woman to carry a child to term you nitwit. It's enslaving the woman to the "human" inside her, forcing her to work for the sustenance of another "person" against her will. Can you stop playing stupid semantics games now? I mean seriously, you talk of cognitive dissonance but don't see how forcing somebody to essentially feed, protect, and literally carry a person around isn't slavery?"

LOL why are you so angry?

Where have I advocated denying abortions? This is not, and never has been my position.

Sometimes you guys REALLY prove McDanger right in these threads...

But you're not necessarily right that denying an abortion is tantamount to enslaving that person. This is not necessarily true.

In the case of rape, I can see that clearly being the case.

But in the case of a woman whoring out, it wouldn't clearly be assault/slavery/whatever hyperbole to tell her she can't abort.

2/23/2012 11:35:25 PM

From reading through this thread, it would seem that women who get unintentionally pregnant can be divided into the following groups:

1) rape victims
2) whores

Anything else?

2/23/2012 11:47:01 PM

Quote :

"If we ignore the effects on quality of life we are essentially just driving our race into the ground. Science and medicine exist to improve the human race, not unnaturally drive populations to the limit. So we keep vegetables and unexpected clumps of cells just so today we can sleep at night? or do we continue the pursuit of improving conditions and quality of the human race?"

Let's say that we suffered a massive disaster that devastated the population.

By the rationale you've provided, it would seem to recommend that it should be illegal then to have abortions, wouldn't it (I imagine adoptions are more readily available in this scenario)?

If medicine and science serve to improve the human race, then improving the human race means stopping this population crash.

2/23/2012 11:48:52 PM

Quote :

"From reading through this thread, it would seem that women who get unintentionally pregnant can be divided into the following groups: 1) rape victims 2) whores Anything else?"

When you consider that all women are, in fact, whores, where is the problem?

2/23/2012 11:54:32 PM

I suppose that depends on your definition of whore. Perhaps my definition is too narrow.

2/23/2012 11:57:32 PM

Perhaps...

2/24/2012 12:03:01 AM

Very compelling logic.

2/24/2012 12:30:12 AM

Quote :

"But in the case of a woman whoring out, it wouldn't clearly be assault/slavery/whatever hyperbole to tell her she can't abort."

Yes, it would be. Your body is your body, no matter what you do with it, it remains your body and sovereign right to determine what goes on inside it. If a woman wants to purposely cultivate fetuses and get them aborted, despite the devastating physical and emotional effects that would have, that remains entirely internal to her body and none of your fucking business.

Unless you can think of something remotely analogous that you as a male have to go through, then please shut the fuck up forever and stop pretending you have any authority over the internal workings of a female body.

Forcing a person, any person, to feed, carry, and protect another individual is slavery, that's the bottom line. If you want to treat a fetus as a person, good for you, but that turns abortion from an issue about killing clumps of cells into enslavement.

You can call that hyperbole, and you're probably right, but no more so than trying to attach "murder" to the termination of a fetus. All I'm doing is extending your own rationale (that is, presupposing that a fetus is a person) to its logical conclusion. Don't whine just because you failed to vet your own stupid angle on this topic before voicing it.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 10:32 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 10:21:37 AM

Quote :

"But in the case of a woman whoring out, it wouldn't clearly be assault/slavery/whatever hyperbole to tell her she can't abort."

Ah and we finally shake out what this is all about: punishing sluts

2/24/2012 10:43:06 AM

Quote :

"When I say "murder" I mean "should be charged with the crime of murder and tried as an accused murderer"."

We know of the concept of murder as being separate from the legal system, as well. There are things that I might think of as being "murder" that I wouldn't say should be brought up in a court of law.

Quote :

"So aaronburro does think that killing a blastocyst is shouldn't be done because we lacked foresight."

you are reading the sentence incorrectly. That we lacked the foresight or responsibility to consider the consequences of our actions should not be used as an excuse for killing human life.

Quote :

"Yes, it would be. Your body is your body, no matter what you do with it, it remains your body and sovereign right to determine what goes on inside it. If a woman wants to purposely cultivate fetuses and get them aborted, despite the devastating physical and emotional effects that would have, that remains entirely internal to her body and none of your fucking business. "

And this presupposes that there is one and only one human life of interest here. and you couldn't be more wrong.

Quote :

"Unless you can think of something remotely analogous that you as a male have to go through, then please shut the fuck up forever and stop pretending you have any authority over the internal workings of a female body. "

I'll never murder anyone and I'll probably never be murdered, so I should never ever talk about murder or if we should allow or disallow it. That's your logic in that statement in a nutshell.

Quote :

"Forcing a person, any person, to feed, carry, and protect another individual is slavery, that's the bottom line. If you want to treat a fetus as a person, good for you, but that turns abortion from an issue about killing clumps of cells into enslavement. "

Then child support is slavery. Hell, welfare is slavery on the rest of society. And, with that, I've just shown you something "remotely analogous" that you don't even give a fuck about.

2/24/2012 2:28:42 PM

Quote :

"We know of the concept of murder as being separate from the legal system, as well. There are things that I might think of as being "murder" that I wouldn't say should be brought up in a court of law."

well, how about we agree to our terms so we can have a meaningful discussion regarding it.

2/24/2012 2:42:20 PM

Quote :

"Then child support is slavery. Hell, welfare is slavery on the rest of society. And, with that, I've just shown you something "remotely analogous" that you don't even give a fuck about."

Great then. Should people who refuse to pay child support or taxes for welfare be charged with murder?

Quote :

"well, how about we agree to our terms so we can have a meaningful discussion regarding it."

Good effort but you're never going to get this as their very argument relies specifically on equivocation.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 2:50:06 PM

Quote :

"you are reading the sentence incorrectly. That we lacked the foresight or responsibility to consider the consequences of our actions should not be used as an excuse for killing human life."

Here was the prior conversation:

Quote :

""A blastocyst which is likely to be spontaneously aborted anyway should be counted as a person because of its potentiality?" no. we take away from it that we should not kill it off simply for matters of convenience or lack of any foresight or responsibility."

You seemed to indicate that its wrong to kill miscarriages.

Nothing could be more incomprehensible. So let me ask you:

Is it okay to kill miscarried lumps of cells? Even those that aren't yet dead but we know can't implant to create a viable fetus.

2/24/2012 3:05:44 PM

Quote :

"Yes, it would be. Your body is your body, no matter what you do with it, it remains your body and sovereign right to determine what goes on inside it. If a woman wants to purposely cultivate fetuses and get them aborted, despite the devastating physical and emotional effects that would have, that remains entirely internal to her body and none of your fucking business."

You are contradicting yourself now. You previously admitted there was a point where aborting a fetus would be considered murder (something about brains).

Are you now saying this is incorrect?

Quote :

"Unless you can think of something remotely analogous that you as a male have to go through, then please shut the fuck up forever and stop pretending you have any authority over the internal workings of a female body."

lulz, you've just further verified my position.

You've pointed out that nothing else is really comparable to pregnancy, which is in fact true. If pregnancy is so special, as you have accurately pointed out, then doesn't it make sense for society to treat it differently?

You're taking the illogical position that I should treat it like any other medical condition that I as a male could have, but then telling me that it's not like anything else so I shouldn't bother trying to think about it.

Quote :

"Forcing a person, any person, to feed, carry, and protect another individual is slavery, that's the bottom line. If you want to treat a fetus as a person, good for you, but that turns abortion from an issue about killing clumps of cells into enslavement."

I'm not sure what you mean by "I want to treat a fetus as a human" because the fact is that YOU, and practically any sane person already does so.

I see what you're trying to say with the whole enslavement thing, but this is not remotely close to what you actually mean. You just make yourself foolish by continuing to push this semantic.

Enslavement implies a continuous oppression. When you consider that the most consistent and logical position, based on societies' current views, is that a fetus is in fact human, then requiring a woman to carry out her own biological processes for 9 months is an acceptable trade off to prevent the death of another individual.

Quote :

"You can call that hyperbole, and you're probably right, but no more so than trying to attach "murder" to the termination of a fetus. All I'm doing is extending your own rationale (that is, presupposing that a fetus is a person) to its logical conclusion. Don't whine just because you failed to vet your own stupid angle on this topic before voicing it."

Calling it "murder" isn't a hyperbole, because it's the actual reality of the situation. Viewing the fetus as a human is the most consistent view, that doesn't require the odd double-standards of your position, where you would accept it as a human in situation X, but not situation Y. When you have to rationalize double-standards, that should tell you there is a flaw in your belief system.

What it boils down to is that you are too cowardly to admit that you are actually tolerant of killing human beings in this situation. When you let your blood pressure return to normal, step outside the left/right dichotomy that has come to dominate the abortion issue, and realize that you already in fact support the killing of humans in other situations for certain social gains, then you'll realize the issue of abortion is no different.

The reason conservatives don't want to codify abortion, and liberals pretend that fetus aren't human only in the case of abortion, is that we as a species like to pretend we're not animals. we are animals, and like all animals, we accept letting our feeble/weaker members die for the good of the herd. We are no different than gazelles running from lions, who'll let the baby gazelles lag behind and get eaten, or let the elderly gazelles serve as bait so the fit ones can escape. It's intellectual cowardice to accept this double-standard in your belief system. You don't have to be a coward.

Just because you realize this fact that we are just animals that need to let some of our own members die, doesn't mean you have to believe abortion shouldn't be legal, it just means you are taking a pragmatic, rationale, logical view on what drives our society.

2/24/2012 4:17:54 PM

There you go conflating murder and kill again.

Silly goose!

2/24/2012 4:29:40 PM

Quote :

"When you consider that the most consistent and logical position, based on societies' current views"

Can you spot the fallacy?

Quote :

"Viewing the fetus as a human is the most consistent view, that doesn't require the odd double-standards of your position, where you would accept it as a human in situation X, but not situation Y."

When is a fetus considered a human by people who normally assume otherwise?

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 4:55:13 PM

Quote :

" When is a fetus considered a human by people who normally assume otherwise?"

see the previous page.

Quote :

"There you go conflating murder and kill again. Silly goose!"

call it what you want, it doesn't really matter.

2/24/2012 5:20:57 PM

Quote :

"where you would accept it as a human in situation X, but not situation Y.""

I was involved in the previous page and I still don't know what you mean by this.

2/24/2012 5:24:24 PM

kill pregnant woman -> human
abortion -> not human

2/24/2012 5:31:57 PM

Quote :

"kill pregnant woman -> human"

I don't believe this, but I'm sure you're right that a lot of people who are for abortion do.

2/24/2012 7:55:40 PM

I commend your consistency then, even though most people would look at you like O.o if you made that opinion known.

2/24/2012 8:43:41 PM

Quote :

" call it what you want, it doesn't really matter."

Hmm okay, I'll call it "not murder" and "none of your fucking business" since both are true

2/24/2012 8:47:59 PM

It's murder-esque.

And irrelevant to the discussion whose business it is.

2/24/2012 8:51:51 PM

Quote :

"kill pregnant woman -> human abortion -> not human "

Quote :

"I commend your consistency then, even though most people would look at you like O.o if you made that opinion known."

FWIW the instance in which you kill a pregnant woman is more analogous to forcing a woman to have an abortion against her will (and killing her). Which most people obviously find repugnant. That reaction doesn't necessarily equate to people recognizing it as a human life. It was simply a convenient legal tool for punishing more in the circumstances (and maybe not circumstantially a foothold for the anti abortionists).

2/25/2012 10:12:22 AM

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/02/do-animals-have-abortions-.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+andrewsullivan%2FrApM+%28The+Daily+Dish%29

2/25/2012 2:30:48 PM

Quote :

"Calling it "murder" isn't a hyperbole, because it's the actual reality of the situation. Viewing the fetus as a human is the most consistent view, that doesn't require the odd double-standards of your position, where you would accept it as a human in situation X, but not situation Y."

Give me a break, you're the one who drops the "humanity" of a fetus as soon as you consider how that relates to the mother's predicament. That is, you drop the "humanity" as soon as doing so has implications outside your original intent.

Quote :

"I see what you're trying to say with the whole enslavement thing, but this is not remotely close to what you actually mean. You just make yourself foolish by continuing to push this semantic. "

No, this is where *your* stupid semantics breaks down, because I've taken your cue to treat the fetus as human and extended it past the limited sphere you envisioned the semantic trick being used when you brought it up.

Quote :

"Enslavement implies a continuous oppression."

Hey now you're just making shit up

Quote :

" When you consider that the most consistent and logical position, based on societies' current views, is that a fetus is in fact human,"

If your position is based on "societies' current views" I'm not sure how that implies either logic or consistency. You should consider that you can't just string mad libs together like this and expect it to make sense.

Quote :

"then requiring a woman to carry out her own biological processes for 9 months is an acceptable trade off to prevent the death of another individual."

Oh, so a fetus isn't just alive now, it's not just human now, but it's also an individual, such that it is a-okay to temporarily enslave another individual for its sake.

Quote :

"I was involved in the previous page and I still don't know what you mean by this."

I don't treat a fetus as human. He says that I should and thus call abortion murder. I say, "Okay, let's assume a fetus *is* a human and extend this logic...", and here he responds, "AH HA! So now you DO treat a fetus as human, hypocrite!" before explaining how we are NOT to treat a fetus as human in the case I present.


[Edited on February 27, 2012 at 9:15 AM. Reason : .]

2/27/2012 9:05:04 AM

Quote :

"Oh, so a fetus isn't just alive now, it's not just human now, but it's also an individual, such that it is a-okay to temporarily enslave another individual for its sake."

IB the fetal suffrage movement.

2/28/2012 8:24:32 AM

If you require a woman to carry a baby to full term and give birth, she can still smoke and drink alcohol like a fish.

Do you pro-life people then believe it's a-ok for us to then regulate what a woman can and can't do when pregnant with a child that you won't let her abort?

Or are you okay with allowing her personal freedom to do what drugs she wishes and then as a society we'll pick up the pieces of whatever disabled and premature baby comes out of it?

2/28/2012 8:42:08 AM

If only there were a way crackheads and alcoholics and smokers who didn't want to carry a baby to term could avoid having to overcome their addictions while simultaneously carrying a child. *shrugs shoulders*


[Edited on February 28, 2012 at 9:00 AM. Reason : .]

2/28/2012 8:56:51 AM

DONT LOOK OVER HERE AT THE COMING 20 TRILLION IN DEBT COMING TO THE UNITED STATES. ITS JUST 20 TRILLION. THE WORLD IS ONLY WORTH 800 TRILLION AND 20 TRILLION IN DEBT TO ONE COUNTRY IS NOTHING. NOTHING TO SEE HERE

MAKE SURE TO VOTE OBAMA OR SANTORUM TO MAKE SHIT LIKE THIS ABORTION ISSUE A BIG ISSUE AND NOT THE ECONOMY


lol. your rhetoric: it's failing. but keep up the good fight to distract us.

[Edited on February 28, 2012 at 9:57 AM. Reason : -]

2/28/2012 9:56:26 AM

whose rhetoric is distracting who?

2/28/2012 1:10:20 PM

Quote :

"DONT LOOK OVER HERE AT THE COMING 20 TRILLION IN DEBT COMING TO THE UNITED STATES. ITS JUST 20 TRILLION. THE WORLD IS ONLY WORTH 800 TRILLION AND 20 TRILLION IN DEBT TO ONE COUNTRY IS NOTHING. NOTHING TO SEE HERE"

because unwanted children are nothing but a boon to our economy...

2/28/2012 9:41:03 PM

You know what, I've changed my mind. I will allow for abortion in one and only one instance: when it involves the abortion of pack_bryan.

3/6/2012 6:07:03 PM

Let's deconstruct aaronburro, piece by piece:

Quote :

" We know of the concept of murder as being separate from the legal system, as well. There are things that I might think of as being "murder" that I wouldn't say should be brought up in a court of law. "

I don't need to do anything here; this sounds straight up retarded for obvious reasons.

Quote :

" you are reading the sentence incorrectly. That we lacked the foresight or responsibility to consider the consequences of our actions should not be used as an excuse for killing human life. "

Personally, I find abortion to be immoral for this exact reason. If a girl gets pregnant on accident and doesn't want the baby, I think its fucked up for her to kill the baby. This is something you and most Republicans can't seem to get through your fucking skulls: we live in a free society which means you can't always get what you want. Whenever you people don't get your way, you act as if the country is going to hell in a handbasket. Abortion isn't wrong, but its much more criminal in my opinion to let the government strip your rights just because you didn't get your way. Fuck that shit.

Quote :

" And this presupposes that there is one and only one human life of interest here. and you couldn't be more wrong. "

No shit. What's insulting about this is that it appears like you are taking the role of the "enlightened one" as if the rest of us can't understand the value of a human life. Fuck you. Also, to quote the person you are responding to: it really is none of your fucking business. People die all the time; somebody bites the dust every few seconds. Do these deaths affect you? Of course they don't. Did the abortions that happened today affect you? Of course not. Don't try and say that they do. You don't have context and hardly the right to tell other people what to do because you think it's right.

Quote :

" I'll never murder anyone and I'll probably never be murdered, so I should never ever talk about murder or if we should allow or disallow it. That's your logic in that statement in a nutshell. "

No, his logic is that you can't understand childbirth by virtue of the fact that you are a male. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of slobbering troglodyte lobe in your brain produced this horse shit.

Quote :

" Then child support is slavery. Hell, welfare is slavery on the rest of society. And, with that, I've just shown you something "remotely analogous" that you don't even give a fuck about. "

The comment you are responding to was pretty retarded so I'll give this one to you.

3/6/2012 6:31:41 PM

Quote :

"This is something you and most Republicans can't seem to get through your fucking skulls: we live in a free society which means you can't always get what you want."

You know, I'm OK with not getting what I want sometimes. but boiling down abortion to that is just plain stupid.

Quote :

"What's insulting about this is that it appears like you are taking the role of the "enlightened one" as if the rest of us can't understand the value of a human life."

Given that that is the stance taken by so many people on the issue, I'd say they need "enlightening."

Quote :

"People die all the time; somebody bites the dust every few seconds. Do these deaths affect you?"

No need to make any laws then, right? Hell, most of them will never affect you anyway right?

Quote :

"No, his logic is that you can't understand childbirth by virtue of the fact that you are a male."

Which doesn't matter. This notion that since I don't have a vagina that I can't join the discussion is fucking absurd. It completely ignores the point that you agreed with earlier that it isn't simply a matter of a woman's body and a woman's body alone. I don't need to understand childbirth in order to discuss something that I think is murder, because the two are wholly separate issues.

3/6/2012 7:03:16 PM

Quote :

" You know, I'm OK with not getting what I want sometimes. but boiling down abortion to that is just plain stupid."

It's not abortion I'm dealing with as much as it is the entire concept of give and take in democracy. You clearly aren't reading what I wrote thoroughly and this already feels like a waste of time.

Quote :

" Given that that is the stance taken by so many people on the issue, I'd say they need "enlightening.""

Not only is this completely ignorant and without basis, but what the fuck gives you the right or the credentials?

Quote :

" No need to make any laws then, right? Hell, most of them will never affect you anyway right? "

This seems to be your de facto rebuttal for just about everything in TSB. "OH SO WE SHOULD JUST ABANDON THIS or WE SHOULD JUST MAKE THIS LEGAL". Anyway, you were against the argument of "it's not your body and therefore none of your business". Your opposition to this argument to me indicates you are taking the stance that these abortions/deaths DO in fact affect you personally, and I'm pretty sure that is horse shit. If you're talking about abortion laws, then I would say no for the reasons I've already stated. If you're talking about murder laws then you're an idiot if you can't pick out the apples from the oranges.

Quote :

" Which doesn't matter. This notion that since I don't have a vagina that I can't join the discussion is fucking absurd. It completely ignores the point that you agreed with earlier that it isn't simply a matter of a woman's body and a woman's body alone. I don't need to understand childbirth in order to discuss something that I think is murder, because the two are wholly separate issues. "

If you can pick out the sentence in my previous post where I've stated that you can't join in this debate because you don't have a vagina, feel free to copy and paste it in your inevitable misinformed reply. I simply said you can't understand childbirth which is admittedly beside the point. The point is that it's NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS because it isn't your life and the chances are very high that you aren't even involved contextually with just about every woman who has an abortion in addition to what I have said in my preceding paragraph.

3/6/2012 7:19:31 PM

Quote :

"The point is that it's NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS because it isn't your life"

Then I guess, again, I shouldn't care about murder, because it's not my life and I'll probably never be murdered, right?

Quote :

"It's not abortion I'm dealing with as much as it is the entire concept of give and take in democracy. You clearly aren't reading what I wrote thoroughly and this already feels like a waste of time."

Well, I'm just trying to see why you brought it up. I've never bitched about abortion from the context of "I'm not getting my way, waaaaah", so I just don't see why in the fuck you thought that was relevant at all.

Quote :

"Not only is this completely ignorant and without basis, but what the fuck gives you the right or the credentials?"

Have you not even looked at arguments made in this thread? Have you not even looked AT YOUR OWN POSTS where you've essentially said it's not my business because it's not my body? Now, tell me, again, how no one makes the argument that it's not my business because it's not my body, sherlock.

Quote :

"This seems to be your de facto rebuttal for just about everything in TSB."

When your argument is "it doesn't affect you, don't make laws about it," the proper response is to show other things that probably won't affect me yet are logical to make laws about.

Quote :

"Abortion isn't wrong, but its much more criminal in my opinion to let the government strip your rights just because you didn't get your way."

This is one of the most incomprehensible and non-connected sentence I've ever seen in my entire life. what in the heck were you smoking when you thought this sentence made any sense in the context of what you were saying? the gov't is stripping my rights because I didn't get my way? what?

[Edited on March 6, 2012 at 7:59 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2012 7:50:06 PM

Dear aaronburro,

Is there any thinkable evidence or argument that would lead you to consider switching to the other side of the issue, or a position more toned down or centrist?

If not, then why are you still posting here?

Love,
mrfrog

3/6/2012 11:50:42 PM

well, what do you think my position is? I think my position is more "to the center" than you think.

3/7/2012 1:16:03 AM

miscarriages are murder?

3/7/2012 1:21:07 AM

nope
set em up and rip em out ------------->

3/7/2012 1:21:27 AM