^^ i don't think rape of men is perceived as badly as women, but I haven't done a poll or anything. But regardless, ideas about sexual purity apply to men too.

5/23/2016 7:02:07 PM

There are a lot of reasons we value it and place importance on it from a niological/evolutionary standpoint. As with many things, technology has fundamentally changed how we view it. Birth control and the ability to control the reproductive aspect of sex has altered a lot of things about it while our biology remains unchanged. It's not dissimilar from how thousands of years of food scarcity have resulted in a lot of obese people now. Our biology has not caught up with the realities of society now.

Human males have an evolutionary drive to propagate their genetic material. Human females, because of the long gestation period and long maturation period have a strong imperative to be selective in choosing mates and/or for favoring a collective style of parenting. Just look at how many early societies favored clan parenting, brothers marrying widows and raising kids, etc.

Now, sex can be a recreational activity but we're still influenced by out biology and by long standing societal norms.

5/23/2016 7:07:07 PM

Quote :

"And "must be protected by men," as I understand it, is a rationale that would fly in the face of most feminist thinking (although "feminist thinking" is so fractured and scattered ideologically that I'm sure there are exceptions)."

I've never been good with thinking or, really, sticking to the tenets of an ideology.

I mean, if there's some massive invasion of North Carolina, I'ma be looking to men for protection. To some extent, firearms and fancy weapons or whatever could level the playing field for women to defend themselves, but they haven't yet.

Similarly, in real situations where I've needed physical safety (or help moving a sleeper sofa), I've turned to men. And, now that I think about, I've never been turned away or ignored by a man when I've needed his help.

Quote :

"BridgetSPK -- I think those are perfectly good historical reasons, but I don't think they apply to 21st century Americans. An exception is number 3, but even that hardly qualifies as a satisfactory, legitimate reason."

Okay, then that's easy. With the exception of dolphins, we are the only species that has sex for recreation. Us and dolphins are the only species that are even able to consent to sex and choose our partners. I really don't know what's up with the dolphins, but yeah, consensual sex is a fundamentally human thing. And, when we stopped routinely raping each other, it was probably a big deal for the advancement of civilization. I mean, consensual sex is a direct reflection of our metacognition, the thing that distinguishes us from animals, the thing that makes us human.

And that's why rape is uniquely bad. For dolphins, we call it "forced copulation."

5/23/2016 7:09:04 PM

us and dolphins are not the only species who have sex recreationally, we are certainly also not the only species who chose their partner or requires consent

[Edited on May 23, 2016 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

5/23/2016 7:23:29 PM

Yup. Several other species of primate do it. Also, quite a bit of research indicating that orgasms exist in other species and sex happens outside of reproductive periods for reasons such as pair bonding and establishing hierarchies in social groups.

5/23/2016 7:31:04 PM

Damn it. That's not the only problem with my post, but I thought I could still sneak it through.

Go ahead and put me down for the genetic material thing but take out the inheritance part. Like, whatever Kurtis said.

If GrumpyGOP comes back about how that's still not satisfactory, then we can all and pretend he never made this thread.

Do y'all remember the time GOP said he wanted to rape Jennifer Love Hewitt? Cause he did, guys, and it was hilarious.

5/23/2016 7:57:41 PM

I'm just waiting for froshkiller to come and piss all over page 3 since he doesn't think that this merits any kind of discussion.

5/23/2016 8:13:42 PM

I want to consensually bang Jennifer Love Hewitt like a coked-up caveman.

5/23/2016 8:43:59 PM

That's like the third time I've seen you bring up Jennifer Love Hewitt to me, so I'm assuming I must have mentioned her at some point. I hope I didn't actually say anything about raping anybody but if I did, I apologize. Otherwise, what ^ said

Edit: Upon review, I did not say I wanted to rape anybody. Which makes me feel better about myself. But it does deepen the mystery of why you have clung to that particular quote for two years.

[Edited on May 23, 2016 at 9:35 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2016 9:31:00 PM

Quote :

"And, when we stopped routinely raping each other, it was probably a big deal for the advancement of civilization. I mean, consensual sex is a direct reflection of our metacognition, the thing that distinguishes us from animals, the thing that makes us human."

We haven't stopped, of course. It happens to some disgustingly high percentage of Americans and a much larger percentage of people outside of the US/Western Europe.

And yes, consensual sex does reflect that metacognition, but so does "consent" more broadly, and so do a lot of other things. Other animals steal; we consider taking property without permission to be wrong. We have concepts of property and personal autonomy, a result of that metacognition. But we do not consider theft to be equivalent to rape. So this line isn't working for me.

5/23/2016 9:43:11 PM

General thought: I suspect people tend to overlook that rape and the threat of rape (and its consequences) were used to control women (and society) for a really long time.

So, while they may seem impractical or hypersensitive, the crazy people are for real: women should be able to walk naked through a prison full of violent male criminals, and nobody gets to bat an eye about her decision. And, if some crime is perpetrated against her, they're not gonna be "dispassionate" about demanding justice. And, if you do pause to question why a naked lady was strutting around a men's prison, they'll probably jump down your throat--and be ideologically justified in doing so.

Any other outcome is problematic to them, and I don't think they wanna have a chat with y'all, especially a chat that starts with one party nearly likening rape to getting punched in the nose.

^^LOL, cause it was hilarious, and you always respond to it. Also, I changed my answer to Kurtis' answer, by the way. We solved the puzzle.

5/23/2016 9:55:33 PM

Thanks man. Great contribution from like ten years ago. Really advancing the conversation there.

If I ever said any such thing I regret it, in jest or not, even if they are a couple of fucking Nazis.

EDIT: Eleven years ago, did not actually say anything about rape, did say things I regret and find appalling even though they clearly were in jest.

Quote :

"the crazy people are for real: women should be able to walk naked through a prison full of violent male criminals, and nobody gets to bat an eye about her decision. And, if some crime is perpetrated against her, they're not gonna be "dispassionate" about demanding justice. And, if you do pause to question why a naked lady was strutting around a men's prison, they'll probably jump down your throat--and be ideologically justified in doing so."

Ugh...I dunno. I really don't.

Yes, in some so-abstract-as-to-be-pointless way, yes, a woman should be able to expose or express herself however she likes without fear of something happening. But on the same logic one should be able to walk through a bad neighborhood loudly counting $100 bills at 3:00 AM. In both cases, the burden is on the would-be criminal rather than the victim. I'm not sure that thought process is helpful, even if it is valid.

No doubt they won't be dispassionate, but this goes back to an argument from the previous page -- the outrage of victims is not the basis for justice. If that was our standard, a lot of perpetrators would be executed, maimed, or brutally tortured. We know, because that used to be our standard (and still kind of is, in some unfortunate regions).

[Edited on May 23, 2016 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2016 10:18:26 PM

I'm not even sure it's a useful or valid argument. I mean you're always going to have some segment of people that will commit crimes, be violent, etc. Even if you managed to educate people to behave with perfect morality you still have to deal with crazy people, head injuries, etc.

Disregarding self preservation and situational awareness is not a good or desirable goal. I'm always amazed that people who suggest women learn self defense because generally they are more physically vulnerable are accused of being rape apologists. Telling tourists not to travel alone in the favelas of Sao Paolo doesn't make you a kidnapping apologist. It's not a perfect comparison by any means, but I think the point is pretty clear.

5/23/2016 10:56:05 PM

LOL, guys, of course, it's not a useful argument. It's not even an argument. But, ideologically, they do expect you to agree with the premise. And any extra breath or paragraphs y'all dedicate to questioning it can be taken as a sign that you do want some form of control over people, and if you only get on about it in the rape threads, it's probably women. I mean, we already control men pretty good with prison.

^^You're not following. Their outrage isn't just for a single victim. They're probably outraged that they're still having to explain this stuff, especially to people who so clearly disagree with them from the outset.

Like, I just mentioned rape and the threat of rape as a form of control over the lives of women, but you're still talking about someone counting their money in the hood at 3 AM. The threat of robbery has never been used to control 50 percent of the population.

Do you see how they're different and how annoyed I might be that I had to explain that to you when you're obviously intelligent?

5/23/2016 11:11:35 PM

Yes, i see the difference, but if you reject that starting premise it doesn't mean you're pro-rape, it simply means you reject the premise.

Rape and robbery are clearly very different and not comparable things, but you can't have a useful discussion that starts from a flawed premise.

This is important when it comes to the question of how do we correctly handle rape trials and accusations. Rape is one of the only things I can think of where a lot of people will say that there can never be any mitigating circumstances, state of mind doesn't matter (which is interesting since mens rea is a hugely important part of our laws), etc.

I mean I get your point that the threat of sexual violence casts a shadow over women to this day, and as a gender you have every reason to be sensitive about it and get pissed when people suggest that there's some culpability on the victim, but we've got to be able to avoid the kind of absolutist thinking that the "crazies" as you put it actually do have. What's more, in order to make sure we are being just you don't overpunish or try to have the judicial equivalent of make up calls because women got screwed over badly by the system before. You see how this overcorrection can be a problem when you start looking at the title ix adjudications going on at universities and how unjust they are.

5/23/2016 11:54:17 PM

Well said, Kurtis.

Quote :

"Like, I just mentioned rape and the threat of rape as a form of control over the lives of women, but you're still talking about someone counting their money in the hood at 3 AM. The threat of robbery has never been used to control 50 percent of the population."

And the threat of violence has been used to control the lives of a higher percentage than that, but we don't have the same reaction to violence or even murder that we do with rape.

You keep trying to claim that I'm making some equivalency between robbery, simple assault, or rape. I'm not. I have said, over and over, that rape is massively worse. However, there are certain qualities that it has in common with lesser crimes, and those things can't be what make it the greater offense.

Yes, rape and the threat thereof has been used to control the lives of women. But as some people have (very angrily) pointed out in this thread, rape is not exclusively committed against women. And other forms of violence and coercion have been used to control women, and others. So that's not it.

This thread has surprised me. I expected the problem to be some bad-taste jokes and some attempts to derail it into the usual mens'-rights ranting about a made-up "epidemic" of false rape accusations. I'm genuinely surprised by the widespread resistance and indeed anger to the idea of considering the issue. Though I shouldn't be, since it is a symptom of exactly the kind of problem I hoped to address when I started this.

5/24/2016 12:22:04 AM

Wow I just found out the marijuana cured the prussian blue girls of nazism

5/24/2016 12:49:33 AM

So y'all are just worried about some "overcorrection" that's not even happening?

And you can sue the university if they kick you out when you already have a significant amount of money invested in your degree. Shortly, university's will have to change their approach to all criminal matters.

Quote :

"Yes, rape and the threat thereof has been used to control the lives of women. But as some people have (very angrily) pointed out in this thread, rape is not exclusively committed against women. And other forms of violence and coercion have been used to control women, and others. So that's not it."

Kurtis already answered for you. It's at the top of the page.

My latest posts were just general musings about why some women are so militant about this matter. And I always think I'm not militant until y'all open your mouths.

Anyway, I think the ladies have made it pretty clear that they're going to do whatever they want to do now. Y'all aren't in a position to reject the premise. I don't know why you would though. I mean, women should be free to do whatever they want without getting raped or threatened with rape. What's so difficult for you guys to accept about that?

I'm not saying that they are free or that you need to take steps in your personal life to help them do whatever they want or that you shouldn't teach self-defense or something. But you have to agree they should be free from the threat of rape. The fact that you can't agree to the premise is troubling. Like, I don't know what y'all're clinging to...

To be clear, I'm not a fan of some of the freedom's outcomes, and I'm not uncomfortable saying it. We still don't raise a lot of our girls properly, and having them out there all emboldened with freedom is not a good thing. We skipped to the freedom part and forgot to teach them a bunch of shit. And this next batch was raised by the Kardashians, so if you think I'm terrible...prepare yourselves.

They have wombs, y'all. They can make babies, and it's really hard to put them in prison because they prefer crimes that aren't violent. I don't know what the plan is now, but I'm pretty sure it's not hand-wringing about some kid getting kicked out of college.

[Edited on May 24, 2016 at 2:01 AM. Reason : Not good.]

5/24/2016 2:00:49 AM

no one here has said that anyone shouldn't be free from being raped

5/24/2016 10:02:37 AM

Perhaps I misinterpreted GrumpyGOP and Kurtis636.

One of them agreed, but said it was an abstract and pointless idea. And the other said he rejected the premise, and he did not think it was a valid or useful suggestion because we're always going to have violent people who rape, including those men who get head injuries and can't stop themselves from raping.

I generally agree with them, but it's very telling that y'all just can't agree to the idea: people should be free from rape and the threat of rape.

5/24/2016 10:12:44 AM

you misunderstood them, neither disagreed with that premise that people shouldn't be raped and neither disagreed with the premise that people should be free from rape or threat of rape

i think you are basing your responses on what you expect them to say and not reading their posts


and all of this is still different than a discussion about what makes rape so bad, so in that regard it's a pointless discussion



[Edited on May 24, 2016 at 10:28 AM. Reason : .]

5/24/2016 10:25:20 AM

Ok, I'll say it directly: women (and everyone) SHOULD be free from rape and the threat of being raped. I agree with this premise.

However, they are not free from it, and it is hard to imagine that they ever will be free of it. So saying it does not mean, end of discussion.

Quote :

" . I don't know what the plan is now, but I'm pretty sure it's not hand-wringing about some kid getting kicked out of college."

This is just a shitty thing to say and it is part of the problem I wanted to address. Rape being awful does not elevate it above standards of due process and justice, and it should not mean that pursuing those ends should be equated to defending or minimizing rape.

5/24/2016 2:15:56 PM

And to clarify the "abstract and pointless" matter, let me say I think that the claim, "People should be free from _____" is true of most crimes and a lot of human-inflicted bad things aside from rape. To me it is automatically the corollary of saying that something is "evil" or "immoral" -- it is a thing that people should not do, and therefore people should not have to be afraid of it. Then the question becomes, so what? Tell me how we use this information to help anybody.

Of course we can and should provide more comprehensive education to children (and everybody else) about sex in general and consent in particular. I'm with you on that. But let's assume that this education is not going to be 100% successful any more than 4,000 years of Judeo-Christian teaching on theft and murder have been. That means that rapes will still happen and will have to be dealt with, and if we're going to deal with them properly I think we had better have a better understanding of what the hell we're talking about.

5/24/2016 2:49:53 PM

Quote :

" This is just a shitty thing to say and it is part of the problem I wanted to address. Rape being awful does not elevate it above standards of due process and justice, and it should not mean that pursuing those ends should be equated to defending or minimizing rape."

I'm not sure you caught what I was saying. But, regardless, what's shitty is y'all didn't care about how universities treated students until they actually started getting uppity about rape. They've been harassing the lives of the accused since forever, guys.

And what I recommended is exactly how people have affected change in the past. You sue and make the universities change. What you should not do is whine to me that society is so outraged over rape that they're ignoring standards of justice because:

1) We've burned down entire towns, murdered teenage boys, and incarcerated men for just looking funny at a woman. It's really difficult for me to be super concerned that it's going to be more difficult for five guys to get their degrees this year. That's hardly a pressing injustice.

2) The university's system for handling alleged crimes has always been a problem. The fact that y'all are just now getting worried about it is something I really wish you could reflect on.

3) You're wrong. There is no new rape hysteria where males are being wrongfully convicted. It is still a very difficult crime to investigate and prosecute.


I get that people are hollering, and it's obnoxious. I don't enjoy it myself. But I've done the absolute best job I can to understand y'all's point of view for nearly a decade now. I mean, as far as I know, I'm the only amateur on here who can outline the five motives for making a false rape accusation: 1) revenge, 2) alibi, 3) financial/social gain, 4) attention, and 5) misdirection.

I'm practically clinical about this business, and you're still calling my ideas "shitty" and suggesting that my attitude is "part of the problem." And you haven't even established that there is a problem.

5/24/2016 5:09:19 PM

Quote :

" But, regardless, what's shitty is y'all didn't care about how universities treated students until they actually started getting uppity about rape. They've been harassing the lives of the accused since forever, guys."

Fair point. We (or at least I) did not understand the scope or even the nature of the problem. Part of that was lack of coverage, part of that was youthful stupidity. I am now aware of the problem and I do care about it and I will absolutely grant you that colleges' (and really society's) continuing shitty treatment of victims is the bigger problem. I did not explicitly seek to discuss that aspect of it here because I think everybody who wasn't trolling would agree that you shouldn't shame accusers and harass victims.

Quote :

"It's really difficult for me to be super concerned that it's going to be more difficult for five guys to get their degrees this year. That's hardly a pressing injustice."

OK, it's not as pressing -- although your rationale that "worse things have happened in the past" is not helpful. But it's not as pressing. So what? Most of the shit on this board is not all that pressing. We don't generally go into each of those threads and point out that the very subject of discussion is stupid.

Quote :

"There is no new rape hysteria where males are being wrongfully convicted. It is still a very difficult crime to investigate and prosecute."

So I'm not sure where this comes from. I haven't dwelt on the issue of "wrongfully convicted/accused" men here and have generally tried to steer the conversation away from that tired discussion, precisely because I agree that there isn't an epidemic of wrongful accusations. Looking back a few posts above, I called the notion "made up."

It is difficult to investigate and prosecute, and I think part of that difficulty comes from having a hasty and poorly-thought-out patchwork of definitions and ideas about "rape."

Quote :

"you're still calling my ideas "shitty" and suggesting that my attitude is "part of the problem." And you haven't even established that there is a problem."

I addressed the problems in the first post and several times since, firstly that we don't really have a good explanation for what it is that makes rape so abhorrent. And on a purely academic level, that question and the reasons for our lack of an answer are interesting to me. The same goes for why we seemingly hold rape accusations (and our response thereto) to a different standard than we use for other crimes.

Now the definition of the problem has been sharpened: it is really damn hard to have a dialogue about rape.

You may say again that this is not a pressing problem. Fine, it isn't. It's an academic exercise. A discussion as useless as any other on the wolfweb, but at least it added some variety and a break from endless campaign threads, "credibility watches," and long-dead horse beating.

And it was a failure, evidently.

5/24/2016 8:37:50 PM

Addressing your prompt about why rape is so bad does nothing to further any discussion on your actual concerns. Plus, a bunch of people gave you lots of good answers, and you just kept saying they weren't satisfactory…like we were all going to eventually say, "Huh, I guess rape isn't so bad."

Quote :

"although your rationale that "worse things have happened in the past" is not helpful."

It may not be helpful. But it's the truth. Black kid sat in prison for a decade on sodomy charges because he had consensual oral sex with his white girlfriend in the 1990s. Like, the 90s, when Madonna was kissing up on the Cool Runnings guy in her music videos.

But a few college kids have to finish their schooling elsewhere, and you think it's time we dig into the notion of why rape is bad? ("Because right now, we have a problem." LOLOLOLOLOL)

And I'm being serious about this…could you at least be a little sheepish? Start by not saying "So what?" like the timing of your inquiry isn't extremely embarrassing.

Quote :

"So I'm not sure where this comes from. I haven't dwelt on the issue of "wrongfully convicted/accused" men here and have generally tried to steer the conversation away from that tired discussion, precisely because I agree that there isn't an epidemic of wrongful accusations. Looking back a few posts above, I called the notion "made up.""

There are plenty of false or half-hearted accusations. They often don't make it to the police.

And I skipped to the "false accusations" thing because you revealed you were concerned about what has happened to a handful of young men on college campuses recently.

Quote :

"It is difficult to investigate and prosecute, and I think part of that difficulty comes from having a hasty and poorly-thought-out patchwork of definitions and ideas about "rape.""

People all over the country and the globe have very different ideas about the subject, for a whole bunch of different reasons. It's also worth noting that the Internet, and the people who were raised on it, have accelerated social change in a way that doesn't actually affect everybody.

Really, I'm unclear how a better patchwork will make it easier to prosecute the crime.

And, if anything's going unaddressed, it really is male victims. And we also gotta keep trying to protect those crazy sex workers. And, maybe, a couple hundred years from now, we can start on prison rape.

[Edited on May 24, 2016 at 11:42 PM. Reason : sss]

5/24/2016 11:28:26 PM

Quote :

"And I'm being serious about this…could you at least be a little sheepish? Start by not saying "So what?" like the timing of your inquiry isn't extremely embarrassing. "

Ha, cut him some slack, he's been in Africa for the past several years...

I think we've answered the question about why rape is "extra" bad in this thread already though, and it doesn't seem there's a way or reason to change this notion.

Maybe in the case of if the girl and guy are both drunk, and the girl says "yes," this is still considered rape by some people, but seems like a gray area to me.

5/25/2016 1:20:26 AM

Was GrumpyGOP raped at some point in his life? If not I give zero fucks about why he wonders why rape is so bad.

Or any of you people who think you can intellectualize the badness of rape away.

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 1:37 AM. Reason : and your feeble attempts to equate it to other crimes is disgusting as fuck. Just stop.]

5/25/2016 1:29:57 AM

As this is a discussion forum,there's nothing wrong with a pedantic discussion on seemingly settled topics. Just remember this is public and indexed and 10 years from now you might be running for political office...

5/25/2016 1:43:19 AM

I don't think anyone ITT is at risk for that.

5/25/2016 1:51:36 AM

This whole thread is just a bunch of fart noises.

5/25/2016 6:07:08 AM

I'm not sure why BridgetSPK is responding to users here as if they are responsible for the state of society at large

Quote :

"I think we've answered the question about why rape is "extra" bad in this thread already though, and it doesn't seem there's a way or reason to change this notion."

i disagree, the majority of the discussion was about pregnancy related issues that don't explain why rape also evokes a strong reaction when done to men

Quote :

"Or any of you people who think you can intellectualize the badness of rape away."

who is trying to intellectualize it away? looking at the roots of why something is bad is not saying that it isn't bad. i haven't seen anyone try to say it isn't exactly as bad as everyone agrees.

and making an analogy is not equating something

Quote :

"As this is a discussion forum,there's nothing wrong with a pedantic discussion on seemingly settled topics. Just remember this is public and indexed and 10 years from now you might be running for political office..."

what statements have been controversial?

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 7:11 AM. Reason : .]

5/25/2016 6:57:34 AM

Quote :

"Plus, a bunch of people gave you lots of good answers, and you just kept saying they weren't satisfactory"

I don't think any given one of them is satisfactory as an explanation for why rape, to a greater extent than virtually any other crime (except, if we want to count it separately, child sexual abuse), elicits such strong reactions -- otherwise peaceable people howling for blood, normally level-headed folks ignoring standards of evidence and due process.

Any given one of the reasons offered could just as well be put forward about another crime or set of crimes -- there are other atrocities that are brutal, intimate, or historically biased, there are others that leave lasting physical and above all emotional scars. The only consequence that seems to qualify as unique is pregnancy, but again, that doesn't apply to men (on whose behalf people are also outraged), and I also don't think it's really what is at the forefront of peoples' minds when they think about this crime.

I suppose the best answer is the aggregate of all of these bad traits and outcomes. But I also think a lot of it comes down to a perceived frailty of women and a duty to protect them, and there's a little bit of a disconnect there with many streams of thought on modern feminism and gender equality.

So there, I've got my answers: Rape is bad because it combines the worst in so many things, and as for "How can we talk effectively about rape?" Easy. We can't.

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 10:23 AM. Reason : ]

5/25/2016 10:18:08 AM

i think it has to do with power, and losing dominion over one's body, but I think the public shaming aspect is a big part of it and why so many victims stay quiet

5/25/2016 10:29:14 AM

Oh yeah, the stigma issue is hugely problematic -- and though I think it is also one that could be better dealt with by improving our understanding of what rape is and why, I'm giving up on that.

5/25/2016 10:35:19 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/05/25/white-high-school-football-players-in-idaho-charged-with-raping-black-disabled-teammate-with-a-coat-hanger/?tid=sm_fb

lettuce reasonably discuss this heinous rape plz

5/25/2016 11:53:04 AM

Quote :

"Mr. Howard is a relative of prominent individuals in the community and, at least in part due to his athletic ability and community connections, the Defendants ignored or were deliberately indifferent to the behavior of Mr. Howard which included aggression, taunting and bullying of The Plaintiff and other students in the District."

Sounds like Donald Trump, who was also sent off to boarding school for aggressive behavior...

5/25/2016 12:27:20 PM

I don't understand the core question here. "Why is rape so bad?" There's no worthwhile discussion to have there. Rape is bad like murder is bad. No one wants to be raped, murdered, beaten, tortured, or otherwise physically or mentally harmed.

Quote :

"How can we effectively talk about or try rape cases?"

The same way we talk about or try any other crime. There's no special court for rape and there shouldn't be. The fact that it's difficult for victims to come forward is not a problem that the court is equipped to handle. As far as I know it's not even a problem a political body can handle. This is something culture has to handle.

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 2:47 PM. Reason : ]

5/25/2016 2:47:22 PM

but "why is murder bad" is a discussion that is able to be had even though everyone agrees it's bad, why is this conceptually different?

(Actually I think in PHI 220 that was an actual prompt)

[Edited on May 25, 2016 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

5/25/2016 3:07:44 PM

I guess I don't understand the claim that we can't discuss rape. What are we doing right now? In what way is discussion prevented or blocked?

5/25/2016 4:01:58 PM

?

that was what you claimed in the post I was responding to:

Quote :

"I don't understand the core question here. "Why is rape so bad?" There's no worthwhile discussion to have there."

5/25/2016 5:43:32 PM

I think we're talking past each other. I'm not saying there can't be a discussion, I'm saying there haven't been any interesting questions worth discussing (to me) in this thread.

5/25/2016 8:03:38 PM

Hey guys, remember this fucktarded thread from last week? It's still deeply dumb. Are you done with that or...?

6/1/2016 7:57:21 AM

"I hate this thread so much I'm going to continue to bump it Whenever I'm bored!!!!"

6/1/2016 8:20:55 AM

Basically. Problem?

6/1/2016 8:31:33 AM

I think what I'm feeling toward you is pity, but I'm not sure.

6/1/2016 8:38:40 AM

Is it true that No sometimes means Yes?

6/1/2016 4:46:48 PM

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-stanford-rape-20160606-snap-htmlstory.html?utm_source=change_org&utm_medium=petition

reasonable discussion, plz

6/7/2016 12:18:08 AM

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra

/thread

6/7/2016 1:38:15 AM

next

6/8/2016 4:04:35 AM