Killmonger is a Warmonger, so whatever, haha.

Lucky I didn't just type out Michael Jordan each time.

5/14/2018 9:18:13 AM

Quote :

"I mean sure he brought Klaus's dead body but T'Challa literally saw him break him out of the holding cell they had him in. Once again, he could have mentioned this."

Yeah, that bothered me too. People were all pissed that Tchalla didn’t bring Klaus back, but then they supported the guy that was the only reason he didn’t bring him back

5/14/2018 9:27:32 AM

LudaChris said:

Quote :

"Why are people siding with Warmonger? His motives didn't seem admirable in the slightest. His father was an accused traitor to the Wakandan people. Hell the Wakandan guy that turned on the king's parents were only killed because of Klaus, the man that Warmonger's father was trying to help. Never understood why T'Challa didn't reveal ANY of this when he first appeared and accused his father of murdering his brother."

You clearly didn't watch the movie closely at all.

N'Jobu (Killmonger's father) was never accused of anything. T'Chaka (T'Challa's father, the former king) told Zuri to cover up N'Jobu's death with a lie that he disappeared.

As far as the people of Wakanda know, N'Jobu never betrayed them. From the Tribal Council's perspective, Killmonger is the son of the king's lost brother and has a legitimate right to challenge T'Challa to combat for the throne.

The son of the previous king's brother shows up after years of being lost with the corpse of the country's most wanted criminal. Of course the Tribal Council gonna fucking support his claim to the throne.

Quote :

"Never understood why T'Challa didn't reveal ANY of this when he first appeared and accused his father of murdering his brother. I mean sure he brought Klaus's dead body but T'Challa literally saw him break him out of the holding cell they had him in. Once again, he could have mentioned this."

Because T'Challa didn't know it was fucking Killmonger who freed Klaue!

Let me break it down for you. Nobody has any inkling about N'Jobu's sedition because T'Chaka ordered Zuri to lie about his death. T'Challa doesn't even know that N'Jobu had a fucking son. T'Challa saw a fucking masked man free Klaue. This masked man was wearing a Wakandan royal ring as a pendant, but T'Challa had no idea this was N'Jobu's son. When Killmonger turns up with a (let me repeat) legitimate claim to the throne, T'Challa has no evidence that he is the man who took Klaue--only his suspicion.

You people can be real fucking mouth-breathers when it comes to basic story elements that are explicitly on screen.

[Edited on May 14, 2018 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ///]

5/14/2018 10:42:06 AM

Quote :

"N'Jobu (Killmonger's father) was never accused of anything. T'Chaka (T'Challa's father, the former king) told Zuri to cover up N'Jobu's death with a lie that he disappeared."

The King actively accused him of it when he visited Oakland, had Zuri there as a mole to confirm his claim, and had him killed. I understand he came home and decided to let him save face by not ruining his name with the Wakandan people, but you don't think T'Challa and Zuri could MENTION this when he shows up?

He even says T'Challa's father killed his father, which the Wakandan people didn't know so it's not like T'Challa couldn't have explained his side. It was a GREAT opportunity to present this information and have Zuri support his claim. You know, before Zuri is murdered.

Quote :

"Because T'Challa didn't know it was fucking Killmonger who freed Klaue!"

That's not even remotely true. He saw the ring around his neck, they even made a huge point to zoom in on it. Then the same royal ring shows up when he presents it for his claim to the throne. How many of those rings do you think are going around? T'Challa didn't even mention this when he got home(made NO damn sense) and they thought he just screwed up and let him get away. I think he could have added that "Oh someone attacked us and took Klaue, oddly enough they had a Wakandan royal ring around their neck."

You can get defensive of the movie, but none of that shit made sense and was just overlooked to setup the Wakandan nation being torn over who the king was. Fairly certain W'Kabi never would have sided with Killmonger if he knew his father was the reason his parents were murdered by Klaus.

5/14/2018 10:59:52 AM

When a masked man with Wakandan royal ring steals Klaue, then directly after Killmonger shows up in Wakanda with dead Klaue and claim to the throne, it’s not exactly a stretch to think this was the masked man. Seems like T’Challa could have said something about it at the council meeting

5/14/2018 11:01:05 AM

Responsible leaders don't make accusations they can't back up. And anyway, the Council recognized Killmonger's claim.

Let's pretend we're living in Idiot World where your imagination dictates what we all see on the screen:

Killmonger: I am the son of N'Jobu! I have brought you Klaue! By my birthright, I challenge T'Challa for the throne.

Council: Okay, cool.

T'Challa: Wait! This is totally the guy who attacked me and stole Klaue.

Council: Where is your proof?

T'Challa: Uhhhhhhhhhhhh the dude was wearing the same ring this guy has.

Council: Proof other than you just...saying so?

T'Challa: It's him! He's obviously a main character, and this imaginary scene is being composed with the brainpower of a four-year-old. Connect the dots, it has to be him!

Council: Okay, dude. Well, this guy has the Wakandan tattoo and brought us the body of a hated enemy who has eluded justice for too long. He's your uncle's son and can rightfully challenge you. So...you've got to fight him for it, and whatever you're making up doesn't really matter.

T'Challa: But I saw him! He did it!

Council: Proof?

T'Challa: I saw him!

Killmonger: Okay, whatever, weird guy. See your ass at the waterfall.

5/14/2018 11:10:46 AM

^Why even wait until that point? He didn't even tell anyone WHY he lost Klaue. Would he seem as inept or as big of a failure to his best friend if he said "we had him in custody and we were bringing him back but someone broke into the CIA base and stole him from us."

At which point wouldn't it make plenty of sense to say, "Yes, Klaue was stolen from the CIA's custody before we could extract him and bring him back to Wakanda. The person who stole him was heavily armed and wore a Wakandan royal necklace. Some of his weapons were clearly Wakandan as well. He had a mask so I couldn't see his face."

THEN when a few days later a person shows up with a dead Klaue and the same royal necklace the pieces would all make more sense? So instead of looking like an incompetent/weak leader like T'Challa is presented in the movie, instead it would just strengthen his position as a capable leader and paint Killmonger as more of a suspect than an ally?

Then again, they'd have to go into even more questions as to why Killmonger was going after Klaue, how he knew where he was or that the CIA had him, how he had Wakandan weapons, why he attacked the royal guard, what happened to his father, etc.

They clearly scripted this to make T'Challa appear weaker and cast enough doubt to allow Killmonger to step in and split the Wakandan nation so easily(despite it being a strong nation historically and his way to split it was stealing T'Challa's life-long best friend within 30 seconds).

I'm glad you were able to overlook it and just turn your brain off and enjoy it, I just felt like it was a really weak point in the story and overall weakened Killmonger as a character for me because they made his ascension to power too simple with weak story-telling and they made the Wakandan nation seem weaker as a result.

5/15/2018 9:43:34 AM

Killmonger's goals and ideals were understandable but they aren't right.

He's a colonialist too, he just wants black people on top this time.

5/15/2018 6:06:38 PM

Just saw this. I thought it was disappointing and mostly boring. In the bottom 5 of all the movies so far



Reminded me of the Star Wars Prequels for some reason.

5/16/2018 1:47:54 PM

I just saw this as well. I thought it was very entertaining. I did not like Killmonger in the least - actually disliked him, which I guess is a good thing, because most of the other Marvel villains, I couldn't really feel much at all about them.

This movie makes me wish I had a rich and immersive culture I could call back to.

But my one big question, is T'Challa going to be the last black panther? Didn't we see Killmonger burn all of the vegetation that made the black panther? Well except for the one that they gave him later.

5/21/2018 9:24:29 AM

You know I thought that brooding look on Okoye seemed familiar. But holy crap I had to look it up on IMDB - it's Michonne!

5/21/2018 10:04:43 AM

Saw it, loved it. Tough to get viewers to really sympathize with a villain, especially in a comic book movie. Also nice to not have an extremely over-the-top and/or extraterrestrial villain.

6/19/2018 2:01:59 PM

finally saw it. i thought it was fairly entertaining but didn't really walk away with anything other than that. Didn't really feel invested in any of the characters.

6/19/2018 3:11:48 PM

I enjoyed it, but thought it fell off at the end.

6/21/2018 8:21:04 AM

Finally saw this, and wasn't very impressed. It was okay, but I got pretty bored with it. Maybe it's because I'm just not a big fan of most "action" movies.

1/24/2019 4:35:45 PM

So I keep hearing Oscar buzz around this movie, but what exactly are the categories that we're looking at here?

Because yes, it was an entertaining movie, and yes, it broke cultural barriers, but (and I'm no movie critic here) technically and visually it is no different than any of the other Marvel movies out there. All the action is CGI, probably from the same studios and technicians that worked on Avengers, So is there a category regarding cultural relevance of a movie?

2/6/2019 3:31:53 PM

because it was an important movie that broke records that critics liked, which is a rare combination

and there was more depth to it than most blockbusters and was directed by someone who is held in very high regard

and the academy is younger and more diverse than it has ever been before

whining about it getting recognized is not a very good look

2/6/2019 3:50:05 PM

The best picture nomination has always looked at cultural relevance

I don’t think it wins best picture but it’s a fine nominee. They didn’t use all 10 nomination slots available so it’s not like it stole the nomination from a more deserving movie.

[Edited on February 6, 2019 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2019 4:04:47 PM

And that's fine - if part of the best picture nomination is cultural relevance, then I'm fine with that.

2/6/2019 4:56:59 PM

it’s also a much better movie than BlacKkKlansman

2/7/2019 1:17:45 AM

I hope that isn't true, I was looking forward to seeing Blackkklansman

2/7/2019 9:39:17 AM

Still a good movie.

2/7/2019 1:36:22 PM

^^If you close your eyes during, you totally think Denzel is in the movie.

2/7/2019 1:36:54 PM

I mean if Lord of the Rings can get best picture, Black Panther stands a chance, right?

2/7/2019 4:29:17 PM

i enjoyed this movie.

i'm still surprised it was even considered for "best picture"... and can only figure that it must have been a down year for movies

2/7/2019 8:28:49 PM

In the marvel thread too but:

Quote :

"WAKANDA FOREVER https://t.co/ozNVPsFQRm"

7/24/2022 2:00:51 AM

Quote :

"“Show them who we are.” Watch the brand-new trailer for Marvel Studios’ Black Panther: #WakandaForever, only in theaters November 11. Get tickets now: fandango.com/wakandaforever"

https://twitter.com/MarvelStudios/status/1576919999159017473

10/3/2022 1:41:15 PM

Quote :

"I mean if Lord of the Rings can get best picture, Black Panther stands a chance, right? "

Lord of the Rings absolutely deserved Best Picture, Black Panther wasn't even the best superhero film released that year, Into the Spiderverse was.

10/3/2022 2:24:37 PM

The kind of CGI that Black Panther had there at the end should alone disqualify it for best picture.

Not sure why we're comparing LOTR and Black Panther, but I don't think there is much comparison. Black Panther is just another formulaic outing from the MCU. LOTR is formulaic in that the source material pretty much wrote the formula for fantasy for years to come.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Black Panther and am looking forward to Wakanda Forever (even though Marvel fatigue is really getting to me at this point), but best picture? I'm not sure about that.

10/3/2022 2:50:43 PM

I'm definitely marvelled out and probably won't see this in theaters. I just find it hard to care about any of the new films past Endgame.

I'd give the original Black Panther a C+ probably. It was a fine movie that I was happy seeing once, which is the same for most Marvel movies.

My prediction for this movie is a solid two first acts, followed by a third act which is nothing but actors throwing CGI particle effects at one another.

10/3/2022 3:06:51 PM

Also, having the new Black Panther played by an antivaxer...eh

10/3/2022 3:09:23 PM

Lord of the Rings fuckin sucked

10/3/2022 10:31:36 PM

I knew next to nothing going into Wakanda Forever and thoroughly enjoyed it

12/4/2022 7:04:26 PM

Watched part 2 on Disney last night, overall thought was disappointing.
This describes it pretty well:

Quote :

"My prediction for this movie is a solid two first acts, followed by a third act which is nothing but actors throwing CGI particle effects at one another. "

2/4/2023 1:05:23 PM

Quote :

""My prediction for this movie is a solid two first acts, followed by a third act which is nothing but actors throwing CGI particle effects at one another. ""

You just described every MCU movie.

As for Wakanda Forever, I give it a "Meh". I found Namor and his people almost laughable. Not because of anything applicable to the movie, but more of a "oh look, another near-immortal/immortal being on earth we're just now finding out about."

And the way he just casually drops "I was a mutant". That's not subtle at all. I feel like it would've been better for Suri to have announced that he's a mutant through researching some blood he dropped somewhere - something like that.

I did like the way they handled Boseman's passing.

2/7/2023 9:50:31 AM

^thats exactly how they handled discovering Ms Marvel was a mutant in that show, so they probably wanted to do something different

2/7/2023 10:25:01 AM

Also, once again, MCU proves that there are no stakes in that universe.

No magic purple flower? Eh, we'll just 3D print some from the other magic purple flower we found in the ocean. Now we'll have Black Panthers forever.

2/7/2023 11:49:45 AM

Watched Wakanda Forever the other night, and I too was disappointed. Maybe it was just because Boseman was so good in the first one but it felt kind of like a mess. It was way too long to start off. But a few other things:

1) Shuri is a tech expert/genius. Yes she can fight, but nowhere near as well as Okoye or any of the other members of that elite guard. It just doesn't make sense to me that Shuri would be the new Black Panther. Okoye is just as loyal to Wakanda and is an experienced fighter/tactician. Does it have to be a member of the royal family?

2) Namor somehow knows EXACTLY where Shuri and the Queen are on the beach. In all of Wakanda, he happened to be in the right place at the right time to tell them about the American engineer. Whatever, not really a huge deal. He says "Bring us the American who build the vibranium detector". So they are like "Okay". Shuri and Okoye go to get the engineer. They are doing exactly what Namor asked. Then suddenly Namor attacks them in America and takes the engineer. Why attack them, kidnap Shuri, and almost kill Okoye? They were doing exactly what he asked? If they were that good at stealth attacks, just go kidnap the engineer herself?

3) The engineer girl shouldn't have made an entire Iron Man suit in this movie. Maybe a prototype or something, but she kinda needs her own movie with her own origin story if they want her to be a main player going forward in the MCU.

4) When battling Namor's forces, WHY WOULD THEY WILLINGLY GO OUT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN IN A BOAT? Namor clearly has a GIGANTIC advantage there. Yeah they have that sound suppression thing to repel them, but seriously? That's like invading Russia in the winter. They have all of these advanced vehicles and that is what they go with?

5) Why are they STILL fighting hand to hand with spears? Yeah, I get it, vibranium is strong. But at least in the Avengers movies, the spears could should some kind of energy projectiles rather than resorting to one on one right next to each other. Makes no sense.

2/7/2023 12:01:57 PM

I thought the plot was garbage, the effects were mediocre, and the performances were mostly lifeless. The pacing was far too slow as well, and the movie was just too long. I don't think it will get a second watch. Awful waste of Namor and Atlantis.

[Edited on February 8, 2023 at 9:31 AM. Reason : Post #51,700.]

2/8/2023 9:31:24 AM

Quote :

"4) When battling Namor's forces, WHY WOULD THEY WILLINGLY GO OUT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN IN A BOAT? Namor clearly has a GIGANTIC advantage there. "

Right?

Quote :

"the movie was just too long"

I just now watched bc i was thrown off by the run time. As I get older i have less and less patience for movies significantly over 2 hrs.

[Edited on June 3, 2023 at 9:45 PM. Reason : W]

6/3/2023 9:25:57 PM

I hope the pendulum swings back the other way with "more is better" when it comes to runtimes.

Movies from the 80's and 90's were consistently able to tell a complete, concise and thorough story in an hour and a half.

6/4/2023 9:33:22 AM