lowered proc rate on the rage gains now. and you will still be 20 points in fury at least (hello enrage )

personally i'd take second wind,imp Hamstring, imp slam, and Tm all before i thought about imp MS/ER.

I'll probably loose Sweeping to get the 3rd point in TM or imp hamstring


Also looking forward to thursday, starting a new 3v3 team (ms warrior, ret pal, disc/holy priest)

10/17/2007 2:25:21 PM

well see thats the thing, you can still get full second wind, full TM (along with deathwish, imp intercept) as well as picking up imp MS and imp MS and ER now with the moves.

ive never been a fan of points in slam for a pvp build, however if youre combining it with a mace it can come in handy during a stun-if MS is on cd youre right.

im not saying this is the build im definitely going with but I think it is something worth trying if i can do some dailies and get the gold to respec.

10/17/2007 2:45:44 PM

I wish they could find a better way to balance out the damage output of MS along with the healing reduction, thats half the reason warriors are so OP in pvp now. Perhaps making it a 15% reduction on healing but being able to stack 3 times or something. That would make a fight against a warrior at least a bit more survivable at least long enough for someone else to have a chance to kill them before they finish raping you.

10/17/2007 3:42:02 PM

its usually more like

[Hamstring]
PvP trinket
[Mace Stun Effect]

10/17/2007 3:59:44 PM

^^ nope, without MS healing is OP

and cta, are you not taking enrage in your build ? doing something like 41/17/3 (or 43/15/3) seems like its a bit of a draw back seeing as how i am always getting beat on in pvp

10/17/2007 4:32:33 PM

well like i said, i read about the switch and have been doing all the theory crafting in my head without having the talent trees in front of me while im at work. for some reason i was thinking i could still get enrage or have 3 points of it with 41/17/3... or i suppose you could try 41/20 but that would sort of defeat the purpose of a talent build built around extra rage...hmm.

just trying to find some way to get the best possible setup to test out trying a heavy arms build with the new talents, because it really could be surprisingly good. 41/20 next patch basically leaves me with everything i have currently minus TM (not sure how i feel about that...) but plus imp MS and ER. or for those of you who are 33/28 youre losing flurry and slam(?) to pick those up. (still thinking pvp here). but 33/28 next patch leaves you without deathwish imp intercept if you want second wind or vice versa no?

and i do have to agree on the healing. if MS was nerfed healing would be crazy

[Edited on October 17, 2007 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ]

10/17/2007 4:46:33 PM

I suppose in a 5v5 setting MS seems like its ok, but in 2v2 its ridiculously OP with the 50% reduction combined with how fucking hard it can hit for at the same time.

10/17/2007 10:30:12 PM

if you're getting hit consistantly in 2v2 by warriors you're doing the wrong thing

10/18/2007 12:01:30 PM

yea, seriously. the following things will stop the warrior form clubbing you stupid.

Root
Cyclone
Gouge
Kidney punch
Cheap Shot
Hammer of Justice
Frost Nova
Blink (after i use intercept, using it before just gets your charged, unless you nova first)
Ice Block
Bubble
Anit-Melee Bubble on your friend
noob coil
Fear (alot)
Black out (risky, but hey)
Power word shield (wheres meh rage)
Earth Bind totem
Scatter Shot
Blind
Entrapment
Frost Trap
Freezing trap
Travel form and run like a coward till you can heal
Seduce
Repentance


"but you have a paladin following you around" yea well... you can have one as well, and he can make you immune to all my damage

10/18/2007 1:23:38 PM

most of that is tr00, but PW:S is like 1500 damage right now.

that's like one swing. priest fear isn't that effective either when warriors do...whatever their anti fear thing is.

10/18/2007 1:27:21 PM

^ 1500 dmg sure, but if we have hardly any rage or 0 rage when the shield goes up, assuming we crit the bubble is gone immediately, but most likely you took basically no dmg and we got no rage and its already been a few seconds, wait another almost 4 seconds and we finally get to swing another autoattack. If this doesnt crit we still dont have enough rage for a mortal strike and if we pummel we're back to square 1 with 0 rage.

If our initial autoattack DOESNT crit it takes 2 full autoattacks before the bubble is even down usually.

im not saying we're not powerful, and a good warrior can be a scary thing. But warriors are not the gods people make them out to be (besides mace stun being OP) if you approach them in the correct manner in the arenas.

10/18/2007 1:35:03 PM

Quote :

" Scatter Shot Entrapment Frost Trap Freezing trap "

scatter shot is worthless against warriors because you're just going to get intercept hamstring the second its done.

Entrapments proc rate and duration have been nerfed so hard its worthless(and intercept breaks it anyway)

frost trap is pretty worthless against a warrior beating on you since you're hamstrung and will still be moving slower than he is. Also, intercept breaks it.

Freezing trap is really the only warrior counter a hunter has, but even then you wont be able to do enough damage to kill the warrior before he comes out of the trap and then intercept hamstrings you again.

hell, even if I could stand there and shoot at point blank range, warrior's have so much fucking armor that it would take me way more time for me to kill him that for him to kill me.

[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

10/18/2007 2:47:12 PM

ive had plenty of hunters kite me EXTREMELY well. one of the best 3v3 teams we faced last season had a hunter that was by far the best hunter ive ever played.

every possibility you just mentioned doesnt always happen like that I can guarantee it with the retarded amount of hours ive put into PVPing as a warrior. youre basically assuming that the warrior can intercept inifinitely (15 seconds is the minimum heh). When it comes to kiting its all about timing.

IE a mage that blinks before a warrior intercepts is stupid. A mage that puts the warrior in a position where he needs to intercept and THEN blinks is smart.

The idea is to catch a warrior in the frost trap when his intercept is down for at least several seconds (if not near full duration) and hes free meat to load up on during that time. (what is the slow % on frost trap again? Wing clip slows more than hamstring does i know that)

Entrapment's proc rate has been nerfed so its worthless? was this a recent nerf? it owned me last season against hunters with it when i couldnt get BoF. it was the deciding factor in many games.

And for both of the above, dont forget that if my intercept is down and youre hamstrung, a PVP trinket gets you out of my range to reapply hamstring while a pvp trinket is useless in a frost trap.

scatter shot is not worthless when used correctly ie 1on1 a scatter shot used to get out of LoS and bandage or scatter shot, lay a frost trap, stand a few feet behind it, and when he intercepts he's caught in the trap out of range for a hamstring, and his intercept is down.

scatter shot into freezing trap is also great for bandaging, or lining up a big shot.

a hunter's battle against a warrior one on one is a long one of finesse, its not solved by trying to go for the kill immediately. In fact in 3v3, most hunters entire jobs were nothing but to tie me up.


im not saying hunters should always kill warriors or anything like that and im not saying Im the best warrior ever. But ive PVPd as a warrior more than anyone on here besides possibly 2 people, and if a hunter plays their cards right and uses timing to their advantage they can be a very tough and hard earned kill for even the best and most geared warrior.

[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 3:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/18/2007 3:05:30 PM

[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ]

10/18/2007 3:30:10 PM

The problem is you are assuming the warrior doesnt have some form of healer behind him, what good does getting away long enough to MAYBE do some sort of decent dmg if he gets healed and is then back on top of you again. Another way they could fix warriors is stop making hamsting a spammable thing, put a 10 sec cooldown on it or something. Warriors always say oh you can pvp trinket out of that, yeah your right I can but then its instantly on me again and I have wasted my trinket. Now Ill admit most of my problems come while playing my rogue and I know warriors are basically rogue killers, but its basically to the point I completely avoid warriors at all costs now almost like I used to do with warlocks until CoS finally helped out. There are obviously numerous ways to get away from a warrior, but more than likely any good warrior will find his way out and intercept/one shot you. To finish this rant I again say FUCK mace spec! that is all

10/18/2007 3:55:21 PM

hamstring and winclip are both 50% Frost trap is actually 60%.

15 seconds is pretty much infinite intercepts. At most if i get a lucky entrapment proc on a warrior and im out of range of them then i get maybe 1 second to kill them. After that its intercept hamstring, and you cannot get out of that without serious luck.

I'd have to get an imp wing clip proc and root the warrior, then scatter shot and get the fuck out. And then try to trap you on the intercept when you come out of scatter. Then I have 1 round of shots to fire before i get intercept hamstrung again. And theres no fucking way im going to kill a warrior with aimedshot/multishot/arcaneshot/autoshot. Even if they all crit its 6500 damage before armor. So maybe 4000 mitigated if they all crit. Thats not much for relying on total luck.

If you dont have imp intercept it gives me a lot more probability of a successful kite, but even then hunter gear is such garbage that any geared warrior is going to destroy them if they can land a couple good hits. And if you have ridiculous stun procs theres no fucking chance of survival.

In group pvp its not so bad, but 1v1 its pretty much guaranteed that the warrior is gonna win unless theres some severe luck on the hunters side or an environmental advantage, like being on top of a wall or something.

Quote :

"Entrapment's proc rate has been nerfed so its worthless? was this a recent nerf? it owned me last season against hunters with it when i couldnt get BoF. it was the deciding factor in many games. "

it lasts like 1 second and is affected by DR. The proc rate also got nerfed. This was a few patches ago and I haven't used it in a while.

Quote :

"And for both of the above, dont forget that if my intercept is down and youre hamstrung, a PVP trinket gets you out of my range to reapply hamstring while a pvp trinket is useless in a frost trap."

the second i pop my trinket im just gonna get hamstrung again. its not like the trinket is going to undo hamstring and move me 6 yards out of melee range.

Quote :

"scatter shot is not worthless when used correctly ie 1on1 a scatter shot used to get out of LoS and bandage or scatter shot, lay a frost trap, stand a few feet behind it, and when he intercepts he's caught in the trap out of range for a hamstring, and his intercept is down."

scatter is 4 seconds. If im hamstrung im going to get a few yards away before it breaks and lay a trap. If im out of LOS, then you just stay out of los until intercept is up. If im not, then just run into the trap or avoid it and dance arround the trap in the deadzone. They're pretty easy to avoid. If you do hit the trap and its frost, just hamstring and walk with me to the edge of the trap. I wont get out of melee range between the middle of the trap and the end. And when we are both out I'll still be hamstrung so im not going anywhere. All the time you're doing a ton of damage and im doing none.

The "survival" skills a hunter has are designed more to stop the attacker long enough to mount and fly away.

10/18/2007 4:02:07 PM

yeah i guess huntards do need to be buffed. any mm hunter gets wtfpwnt by my rogue in most bg's. (bm huntards are a different story, but i can still do a big chunk of damage to them (sprint ftw)).

10/18/2007 4:06:19 PM

Quote :

"the second i pop my trinket im just gonna get hamstrung again. its not like the trinket is going to undo hamstring and move me 6 yards out of melee range."

unless youre realy unlucky and the warrior has no GC blocking him, if he is in the frost trap, and you PVP trinket youll get out of hamstring range and suffer piercing howl until he catches back up to you (30%).

Quote :

"If you do hit the trap and its frost just hamstring and walk with me to the edge of the trap"

the idea for you is to not be within hamstring range of the trap so that I cant do that.

Quote :

"The problem is you are assuming the warrior doesnt have some form of healer behind him"

i was also assuming the hunter didnt have a healer behind him, i was assuming 1v1.


once again im not saying that hunters have it easy against warriors by any means. but i have been given absolute fits against many hunters in BC pvp both with and without a mace.

besides hunters are getting a buff this patch right?

[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ]

10/18/2007 4:24:44 PM

Quote :

"Arcane Shot (Ranks 6 and above) now dispel 1 Magic effect in addition to their normal damage. Explosive Trap: The initial damage dealt by this trap is now also increased by 10% of your ranged attack power. Immolation Trap: The total damage dealt by this trap is now also increased by 10% of your ranged attack power. Misdirection: This spell will now always be removed correctly if multiple Hunters overwrite each other's Misdirection. Readiness: This talent now finishes the cooldown on Kill Command. Serpent Sting, Immolation Trap and Explosive Trap all gain additional damage based on ranged attack power. Serpent Sting: The total damage dealt by this sting is now also increased by 10% of your ranged attack power. Steady Shot: Tooltip clarified to indicate base weapon damage is used in the damage calculation. Trueshot Aura (Marksmanship) no longer costs mana to cast and will last until cancelled. Wyvern Sting (Survival) is now instant cast and has a maximum duration of 10 seconds in PvP. "

no not really.

10/18/2007 4:30:47 PM

i havent read the hunter notes just heard by word of mouth..is that all the hunter updates? I had heard several other things from another hunter.

10/18/2007 5:07:49 PM

There were some blue posts that said they might do a few other things. The only one I think that might happen on the 2.3 PTR is they might add a Mortal Strike effect to aimed shot. Which while interesting, I dont know how useful it would really be unless it significantly increases the shots damage.

One of the other posts was that they might shorten the deadzone or get rid of it entirely. I doubt they'll do it and if they do, it wont be this patch.

10/18/2007 5:10:44 PM

ah ok those were the 2 things i heard...and both seemed like significant buffs. :/

10/18/2007 5:17:15 PM

as far as I can tell the detail on the Mortal Strike thing were pretty vague. MS does like -50% from healing effects and +damage based on attak powR right?

So i'd assume it means aimedshot would get the -healing, but would there be a damage increase?

I guess the effect would be ok in PVE if you didn't have any MS warrs and a fight needed it. But dont rogues have an anti-healing poison anyway? Also aimedshot resets the shot timer so if you're casting it alot you're going to seriously gimp the already shitty damage hunters do.

it would be pretty great for arenas, but I'm not a fan of arenas.

As for the no deadzone thing yea, that would be awesome but its really only going to help against classes hunters already do ok against. I cant imagine autoshot and multishot are going to work while on moving So vs a warr im either going to try to run out of range and have the same problems i do now, or try to outdps the warrior which probably wont happen.

It would be great in group pvp where the warrior is already damaged and/or i have a healer keeping me up.

What they need to fix for hunters more than anything else is the way shot mechanics work.


[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 5:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/18/2007 5:31:57 PM

^^^also heard disarming shot http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=43946

10/18/2007 6:27:55 PM

So the brooms can be used as many times as you like for 14 days and you can kill the Headless Horseman as many times as you like but you, individually can only summon him once a day.

10/18/2007 7:00:06 PM

yeah its hax.

10/18/2007 7:37:19 PM

nerds

10/18/2007 7:50:49 PM

i just read you can 10 man horseman

10/19/2007 12:44:31 AM

Question for anyone who has leveled a priest to 70, did you have any issues healing instances up to 70 as shadow? I plan to go holy at 70 in order to move my shaman back to elemental, but I want to instance run for rep all the way up. I'd rather stay shadow though so in downtime I can do that whole questing thing. This will be lvl 70 number 6 needless to say I never have a problem with boredom that I know I would have with only one char haha.

10/19/2007 8:20:20 AM

I can't tell you for sure, but i healed 5 mans when i was leveling my priest to 60 (before TBC) and healed level 60 instances fine as shadow. I would trust a shadow priest with halfway decent gear (talking just blues, maybe a green or two, but just not 100% shitty greens) to heal any normal instance up to and including 70. (I've even had a SP heal a heroic, but he had a ton of epic healing gear).

10/19/2007 12:28:09 PM

as long as you have healing gear you should be okay (just bring pots, your efficacy will suck). And take dps spots when you can, because hey, you're good for it

10/19/2007 12:42:29 PM

Quote :

"^^^also heard disarming shot http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=43946"

Thats pretty awesome

10/19/2007 12:47:22 PM

Quote :

"Question for anyone who has leveled a priest to 70, did you have any issues healing instances up to 70 as shadow? I plan to go holy at 70 in order to move my shaman back to elemental, but I want to instance run for rep all the way up. I'd rather stay shadow though so in downtime I can do that whole questing thing. This will be lvl 70 number 6 needless to say I never have a problem with boredom that I know I would have with only one char haha."

I just got my priest to 70.

Carry a healing set with you at all times. My priest had the benediction and some old T2 stuff, i did ok up to Durnholde. I was running OOM a lot and pulling a lot of aggro with heals. So pretty much from 67-70 I quested in Nagrand and Area 52.

10/19/2007 12:50:16 PM

Wow... I've done 17 Hh runs and got the following:

- 4 epic brooms
- 3 blue brooms
- Healing ring
- Casting ring
- DPS ring
- Both purp helms
- Blue cloth helms

and



RARR!

that thing has sick stats for being free... although it did take me 17 runs to get it

http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=33808

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 1:41 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2007 1:36:23 PM

healers can have shit gear and be low level and do fine in any 5 man, it's just the mechanics of the class. the key is playing with good players and being good yourself. most of the time you can main heal a 5man with VE and bubble on a lot of the trash and just switch out for big pulls and bosses. I would recommend a healing set though. t2 is perfect until you can make pmc

I'm kinda pissed there isnt a hat of every armor type, one plate hat is fucking bullshit as if warriors didnt have enough free epic quality stuff.

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 1:38 PM. Reason : d]


[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 1:41 PM. Reason : might be time to dust off dragonstrike..]

10/19/2007 1:36:28 PM

13 runs yesterday, i have a 225 broom, a healer ring, and a caster ring... for my warrior.

going for helm again today.

10/19/2007 2:05:27 PM

^that's pretty nice

what's the deal with weapon skill getting taken out? heard something about it...

10/19/2007 2:05:27 PM

Quote :

"shaggeth: actually what they need to do is have presistant world pvp shaggeth: thats actually what all of northrend should be shaggeth: every zone except the starting ones should be capturable packpower21: dude packpower21: it would be stupid shaggeth: with unique pve content for each zone packpower21: you'd be playing inside AV at all times shaggeth: that you can only do if you own packpower21: it'd be gay and a half shaggeth: no packpower21: and what about servers like mine packpower21: with fucked up pop ratio packpower21: like 4:1 A:H shaggeth: then they need to open transfers shaggeth: and even on 4:1 servers like that the alliance are just sitting in IF anyways shaggeth: when was the last time you saw alliance in outlands out side of shatrath and not going to an instance? packpower21: doing the halloween shit last night lol shaggeth: did you kill them? packpower21: I flagged up and fucked them up outside packpower21: it was great shaggeth: was it fun? shaggeth: yea packpower21: fucking gay hunters popped out and multishot me shaggeth: so imagine that thats what you do to get gear in northrend packpower21: then ran back into zone in packpower21: yeah but the encounters would have to be really trivial then packpower21: and people would bitch and cry packpower21: cuz they suck at pvp packpower21: and would be like you made pve for pve packpower21: qqqqqq shaggeth: if they want to give out pvp rewards, thats how you should get them shaggeth: not gay arenas shaggeth: and there will be pve shaggeth: you just have to cap the zone before you can do it shaggeth: and it wouldn't be all the pve content packpower21: and then you're fucked all night? packpower21: and can't raid the zone that has good loot? shaggeth: you'd still have the high level poopsock stuff shaggeth: out in whereever shaggeth: but then you'd have equally good pvp rewards for the zonewide stuff shaggeth: it would be like if you got to hellfire and had to cap the zone before you could do the instances packpower21: what you want is warhammer shaggeth: and if everyone caps and does instances, then the other side can just recap ————— 02:02 pm ————— shaggeth: but you need to give rewards for attack and defense packpower21: that puts too much into player efficacy shaggeth: and for killing packpower21: people are gonna be like "shit, this faction always wins, im just gonna roll that one" shaggeth: and take a month to level to 70? packpower21: and it would get one sided and dumb shaggeth: not really shaggeth: maybe on girl servers shaggeth: the problem is that all the world pvp to date has been centered on pve fags shaggeth: they should make northrend pvp centered on pvpers packpower21: the rewards are shitty packpower21: so no one does it shaggeth: yea shaggeth: and its not fun packpower21: yeah shaggeth: but it can be if they tried packpower21: they're trying to add actual fun world pvp to wotlk packpower21: but its gonna be gay shaggeth: its gonna be one zone and no one will go there a month after release shaggeth: because the rewards will be shit packpower21: exactly shaggeth: and the effect on the zone will be worthless shaggeth: which is why it needs to be a content wide thing in every zone shaggeth: or even small objectives too shaggeth: like cap dis mine shaggeth: you get some npcs set up defending shaggeth: and you can mine good shit shaggeth: so you're mining and the alliance show up, and then you go fend them off shaggeth: and you can use that ore to make sweet pvp gear shaggeth: or something shaggeth: thats the kind of thing that you'd consistantly do shaggeth: it adds a pvp element to farming shaggeth: so here you go shaggeth: the zone has 2 holds shaggeth: alliance and horde shaggeth: then scattered arround the map are lumbermills/mines/etc... shaggeth: you can get your standard quests from the holds shaggeth: and others from the mines and whatnot shaggeth: and if you cap the mines you get ores for crafting and then also supplies for building pvp stuff shaggeth: and you get lumber from the mills shaggeth: and you get enough to build siege weps to go take out the enemy hold shaggeth: and then you get some sort of pvp token that can be used to get sweet gear shaggeth: and if they attack you and you kill their siege weps, you get the same tokens that way shaggeth: see shaggeth: this would be awesome shaggeth: on a pve server they'd just skip arround like normal and not do anything shaggeth: unless they wanted to build shit"

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2007 2:13:44 PM

cliff notes version?

10/19/2007 2:36:40 PM

shaggeth: so here you go
shaggeth: the zone has 2 holds
shaggeth: alliance and horde
shaggeth: then scattered arround the map are lumbermills/mines/etc...
shaggeth: you can get your standard quests from the holds
shaggeth: and others from the mines and whatnot
shaggeth: and if you cap the mines you get ores for crafting and then also supplies for building pvp stuff
shaggeth: and you get lumber from the mills
shaggeth: and you get enough to build siege weps to go take out the enemy hold
shaggeth: and then you get some sort of pvp token that can be used to get sweet gear
shaggeth: and if they attack you and you kill their siege weps, you get the same tokens that way
shaggeth: see
shaggeth: this would be awesome

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : tl;dr]

10/19/2007 2:44:21 PM

too many people hate pvp for this to work.

which i think is stupid, the whole game is based off the "horde versus alliance" concept.

10/19/2007 2:52:41 PM

that is basically the idea behind Ultima Online's Factions.

10/19/2007 3:06:13 PM

Thanks for all the replies, I obviously dont have epic tier 2 gear as this wasnt a 60 sitting around I actually lvled this one starting after BC, but trying to pull some healing gear from instancing as I go.

10/19/2007 3:27:56 PM

http://vhairi.blogspot.com/

Class team makeups in EU arena PvP

[Edited on October 20, 2007 at 1:43 AM. Reason : image broken]

10/20/2007 1:42:58 AM

anyone on malganis?

10/20/2007 3:13:16 AM

that idea blows.

10/20/2007 1:45:42 PM

I got the sudden urge to play again just now.



god damn it. I thought I was over this game.

10/22/2007 8:56:38 AM

All it takes is a little boredom or the urge to stomp a gnomes face into the ground and the bug will come back!

10/22/2007 8:58:25 AM

the game has just gotten so complex.



i always feel like a fucking nub, because I don't scour the forums and constantly read up on exploits

10/22/2007 9:15:38 AM

Someone post some exploits.,.. I could use an edge/gold.

Anyway, I hate spending gold, so I like to find things on my own. What is the best way to get Star of Elunes? trying to deck out some of my Kara tanking gear. I have a miner at 375, so I've been looking through BEM for Adamantine deposits. I will send those deposits to my JC to have him prospect all that ore. They say you can get them from doing this.

Hell, I might just sell the ore and use that gold to buy the gems. I've already dug up 108 adamantine and 124 fel iron ore this morning at work.

10/22/2007 11:19:31 AM