Yeah I am torn on how they are making gear so easy to get now. I havent raided since back in the MC/BWL/AQ days but yet I have better gear now than I ever did then for the most part. The arena system should have been a litle harder I think to get gear. The personal arena rating come season 3 is a good start, but I think they should have put a number on all pieces of gear even if it was simply 1550 to start with or something, maybe a higher than 10 game a week minimum, etc. The pvp veterans epics are fine, it takes a fair amount of time to get the honor to get those pieces. Arena gear is the best in the game and yes it takes a really long time to get the gear if you dont have a high ranked team, but still it takes really no skill. I am far from the best pvper, I run 10 games a week typically going somewhere between 5-5 and 7-3 each week. That has been enough to get both MH and OH weapon along with the gloves. So pretty much I spend about 3 hours a week, do average, and now have the best weapons in the game? Even I think that is kinda sad lol. Its almost made pvp not fun in the fact that rather than being a few here and there with really amazing gear that can destroy most people, its half the time 5/10 players in WSG at least are fully decked and if you arent then have fun dying.

11/5/2007 4:03:43 PM

i think the problem with progression lately, is that in 25 mans, there is very little room for a weak member. It only takes 1 or 2 noobs to screw up a raid, and its very hard to find 25 competent people to have on for a raid every night.

The one thing i see is that so many guilds are pussy, and always invite people who are clearly noobs, and have a learning disability and never get better. The GM won't boot them, because they are too carebear and don't want to be "mean". I remember leading raids back in my EQ days, and if someone seemed noobish to me, or pissed me off, i would boot them immediately and never invite them on my raids again (all my raids were successful).

A lot of people are good raiders, but it only takes a couple noobs on a raid to screw everyone else over.

11/5/2007 4:03:50 PM

heh, i got gkicked when i stopped playing for a while and didn't log in for a week or two from a guild that needed a prot paladin in SSC. reason I stopped logging on was because i didn't have time at first, but then when I did and made the raid times they just kept taking another pally over me.

now after they geared up the paladin he gquit and the guild is looking for a replacement

11/5/2007 4:14:44 PM

1, ZA/Bagde loot does not replace the need for ssc/tk. they teach you how to function as a 25 man group, as well as having better loot overall. ZA/badge stuff is pretty much itemization fillers for where spec Y has jack or shit for gear options for certain slots.

11/5/2007 5:03:40 PM

Quote :

"A lot of people are good raiders, but it only takes a couple noobs on a raid to screw everyone else over."

and.. I'm gonna have to disagree with you there cain. ssc gear for a lot of classes is pretty shitty. As a rogue there are 6 items worth getting there; t5 hat, t5 gloves, talon of azshara, bloodsea brigand's vest, and tsunami talisman. those are items are nice, but there are more than comparable items elsewhere, minus trinket and chest. This trend holds for a lot of classes in there, specifically class/spec combos that have poorly itemized set items(rogues, hunters, arms warriors, etc). TK the gear is absolute shit until KT for the majority of classes (save class trinkets). ZA offers MH/BT quality gear that for the hardcore raider is better in a lot of cases, where t5/t6 set bonuses leave something to be desired. hell, you can often have a combination of blues, heroic pieces, kara epics that are on par with mag/gruul/ssc/tk gear.
ex: http://wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mannoroth&n=Karaz

compare that with me http://wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Baelgun&n=Ripthejacker assuming you click that when I'm logged out in pve gear

[Edited on November 5, 2007 at 6:23 PM. Reason : d]

11/5/2007 6:22:39 PM

combat swords better for pve

11/5/2007 7:41:22 PM

after doing some 5v5 and 3v3 last night, i've come to the conclusion that hunters and ret pallys are fine, the people who are crying about them being underpowered are lazy, undergeared, and need to learn how to play their class correctly in pvp.

11/6/2007 9:17:09 AM

well-played MM hunters are absolutely amazing in 3s and 5s

ret paladins are a complete joke in arenas...no resil ftl

11/6/2007 9:33:06 AM

i wonder what kind of diminishing returns on interrupts and silence effects are taking place :/ i really dont like the sound of that

11/6/2007 9:43:00 AM

Every class if fine if you are geared correctly and know how to play well. Most players are too lazy to invest the time gearing correctly and practicing pvp against difficult matchups.

11/6/2007 9:47:03 AM

no, ret paladins and enhancement shamen are trash.

11/6/2007 11:07:32 AM

i know a couple of retnoobs that actually do decent in arenas (2v2 and 3v3 anyways).

11/6/2007 1:58:52 PM

they removed the diminishing returns from silence and interrupts from test

11/6/2007 2:13:53 PM

I was farming the plans for Felsteel Bracers on my prot warrior this past weekend (got it after 52 runs) and I noticed that whenever the stun from Revenge would proc, it would last less and less time each proc. It eventually got to a useless stun.

Is this what you're talking about? Hope that shit goes away because I also did some AV's as prot and found that to be quite useful. Killed many rogues 1v1

11/6/2007 2:50:47 PM

nah referring to pummel and the silence associated with pummel, earthshock, counterspell etc.

11/6/2007 2:54:43 PM

Quote :

"52 runs"

good god

i hate having to farm dungeons

11/6/2007 3:01:12 PM

what pattern would be worth running a zone well past exalted faction?

11/6/2007 3:12:38 PM

spellstrike, whitemend maybe

shit you can sell real good

[Edited on November 6, 2007 at 4:12 PM. Reason : mongoose]

11/6/2007 4:07:57 PM

got my shoulders today, I look like a proper badass warlock

11/6/2007 5:54:09 PM

people still post in this thread

11/6/2007 6:00:13 PM

^^^^ & ^^^^^

They weren't full runs.

I solo'd them. I walk into AC and run along the tombs to the left and don't aggro anything to the end of the hallway, the catch the patrolling Crypt Monk and kill him in the corner alone. Run out. Reset instance. Repeat.

11/6/2007 6:08:01 PM

Anyone want to buy my 70 undead warlock?

11/6/2007 7:09:10 PM

how much ?

11/6/2007 7:43:16 PM

Quote :

"well-played MM hunters are absolutely amazing in 3s and 5s ret paladins are a complete joke in arenas...no resil ftl"

Lack of resilience isn't what makes ret paladins suck in arenas.

11/6/2007 8:44:53 PM

it's a major contributor

11/6/2007 9:33:26 PM

^^pretty sure it is, unless you're talking about arena at something like sub-1600 rating

11/6/2007 10:15:54 PM

uh, ret paladins with full pvp gear which is all I see when I do see them have as much resil as anyone else. They suck because ret blows pure ass atm.

11/6/2007 10:17:22 PM

Quote from: Drysc (Source)
While testing continues and a delay could possibly change these dates, we are currently planning to start Season 3 on November 20 once the realms come back up from their weekly maintenance. This means that Season 2 will come to a close when the realms come down for maintenance on November 20. During that maintenance the final standings are taken and the end of season rewards are distributed.

The start date for Season 3 is purposefully planned to be one week later than the release of patch 2.3, which is currently scheduled for November 13. We will be closely monitoring the testing of the 2.3 patch, and if it looks like it won’t make the November 13 date, we will announce a delay.

With the end of the current season all previous recipients of the end of season titles will have them removed, and the titles will be redistributed for participation in Season 2. A unique armored swift nether drake, visually distinguishable from the Season 1 reward, will be awarded to the top 0.5% of teams. We’ve recently added new requirements for a team to be counted when determining the top 0.5%, which can be found here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2649798359&sid=1

FAQ

Q: Can I keep my title from Season 1 even if I haven’t participated in Season 2?
A: No, the seasonal titles are intended to be a reward for performance in the previous season. Similar to a sports title or award, it’s handed off or moved to different players/teams as their performance rises or declines throughout the seasons.

Q: What happens to my Nether Drake?
A: You will keep your Swift Nether Drake, and a new visually distinguishable Swift Nether Drake will be given to the top 0.5% of teams for their efforts in Season 2.

Q: So I’ve heard something about items having rating requirements?
A: Yes, the Season 3 weapons will have a personal rating requirement of 1850, and the shoulders will have a personal rating requirement of 2000.

Q: What is a “Personal Rating”?
A: We’re introducing an additional rating system with the start of Season 3 that will only track your personal games played, which you’ll be able to see through the in-game PvP interface. This rating will be used to determine the ability to buy specific items, and also to determine eligibility for the end of season rewards. The personal rating rises and declines using the same formula as the arena team rating, but only in games that you participate in. If you switch teams the rating will be reset to a default 1500. The personal rating is only used for the initial purchase of specific items, and isn't required that you maintain a rating to use them.

Q: What happens to the Season 1 and 2 items?
A: The Season 2 items will be priced the same as Season 1 is now, and the Season 1 items are moving to the honor system, purchasable with honor points and Battleground marks.

Q: What happens to my rating when Season 2 ends?
A: Ratings for all teams are reset to the default 1500 for the new season. You still keep your arena points though, they aren’t diminished or removed.

Q: When does Season 2 officially end?
A: Barring a delay, when the realms come down for maintenance on November 20.

Q: How sure are you that 2.3 will make a November 13 release?
A: Pretty sure, but there’s always the possibility for a delay. Due to the upcoming holidays any necessary delays to the release of the patch may require us to delay Season 3 into the start of December. We’re trying very hard to avoid that.

Q: Why isn’t Season 3 beginning with the release of the patch?
A: To help us focus on both a major content patch release, and start of a new season, we’re separating them by one week.

11/6/2007 11:18:01 PM

Anyone have a Zul'A man boss guide? Our guild is trying to jump in there full force.

11/7/2007 8:31:14 AM

Is ZA gear on par with SSC and TK in terms of at least being better than Kara and filling in some of the gaps left by shitty drops in 25 mans?

11/7/2007 9:36:10 AM

there is a LOT of gear coming out of ZA. along with badge rewards to fill in what doesn't drop there, ZA should be more than enough to prepare you for upper tier 25 mans.

11/7/2007 9:47:46 AM

Damn I thought patch was gonna be a few weeks from now, guess I need to get some pvp in this week to offset the fact as soon as season 3 starts all the hardcore pvpers will be instantly decked since they have 75,000 honor and 5,000 arena points banked. Hooray for being undergeared again and getting obliterated for a month or two again .

11/7/2007 9:50:22 AM

any ideas on the cost of the season one gear? i have some honor banked on my priest that could be spent on some relatively easy and decent upgrades (weapons come to mind) along with a ton of WSG marks...

btw, is there any epic pvp gear obtainable with just WSG and honor? i did some searches but couldn't find anything.

11/7/2007 9:59:58 AM

the arena 1 gear is going to be the same price as the current blue stuff

11/7/2007 10:33:14 AM

Do any guilds that raid take along or value shadow priests?

Yes, I know that (insert class here) when played correctly is valuable.. but gimme the reality.

11/7/2007 10:40:25 AM

yes

#1 shadow buff for warlock dps
#2 extra shackle in kara
#3 priest mana battery. I love having one in my group when i raid on my priest.
#4 Another healer if one goes down during a fight.

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 10:46 AM. Reason : plus if geared correctly, do great DPS as well.]

11/7/2007 10:45:14 AM

^^yes, shadow priests are valuable and you'll find them in most if not all raiding guilds

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 10:47 AM. Reason : .]

11/7/2007 10:46:50 AM

last night we had a shadow priest and 2 warlocks in kara. their debuffs help each other and boost their dmg greatly.

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 10:54 AM. Reason : .]

11/7/2007 10:53:48 AM

My proposition: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2765962747&sid=1

Reasonable?


edit: So far no response on the warlock forums, I think everyone is too busy crying about drain tanking nerfs.

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/7/2007 11:24:33 AM

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2647287801&sid=1&pageNo=31#606

11/7/2007 11:27:55 AM

Quote :

"Damn I thought patch was gonna be a few weeks from now, guess I need to get some pvp in this week to offset the fact as soon as season 3 starts all the hardcore pvpers will be instantly decked since they have 75,000 honor and 5,000 arena points banked. Hooray for being undergeared again and getting obliterated for a month or two again . "

you're only undergeard because you didnt play.


even with horrible ratings you should have a full set of gear weapons and 5k points banked by now if you played every week.

hooray for misplaced blame

11/7/2007 11:52:38 AM

they need to (for rogues)
- swap fleet footed and imp ambush
- put sprint on a 60s CD and make it last for 4s (it's 15seconds of uselessness atm)
- make cold blood trainable and put in a talent for imp cold blood that does double crit bonus damage
- make a talent deep in subtlety that gives passive chromatic resist (5 points, 15 resist points per talent point)
- put serrated blades in the combat tree
- make eviscerate scale
- make daggers suck less balls (higher rank backstab/mutilate so it scales better)
- put adrenaline rush on a 3min CD (5min is ridiculous, it also helps with our raid damage scaling without giving us a huge pvp buff ie: haste nerfs)
- make deadly throw cost energy but no combo points and put it on a CD, much like conc shot/scatter shot (15-20s)
- put fleet footed up where murder is, every rogue build should be able to utilize it

honestly, none of this is ground breaking. we'll still get worked by wars and druids. it just won't be so simple dealing with rogues and we'll actually have a viable pvp tree.

shamen are also in need of such buffs

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 12:23 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 12:24 PM. Reason : and make imp sprint make you 50%/100% immune to snares for the duration of buff]

11/7/2007 12:14:35 PM

i don't know man, i think rogues are fine for pve. Combat sword rogues pwn my meter.

11/7/2007 12:30:48 PM

i agree, however some adjustment to their pvp capability would be nice

11/7/2007 12:37:44 PM

Quote :

"swap fleet footed and imp ambush"

imp ambush is in subtlety for a reason, because its an opener.

Quote :

"make eviscerate scale"

i can see this, the dmg is pretty crappy as it is, especially when combat builds have ss crits doing the same as 5 pt eviscerate hits. Resilience makes eviscerate worthless.

Quote :

"put fleet footed up where murder is, every rogue build should be able to utilize it"

yes, its too deep in assassination to be useful to any spec other than mutilate (or 31/0/30 or whatever that hybrid spec is).

11/7/2007 12:40:35 PM

Quote :

"i don't know man, i think rogues are fine for pve. Combat sword rogues pwn my meter."

raid ssc, mh, or bt and tell me this. sure if you get wf and locks/mages don't have an spriest you'll pull away, but all things equal, you'll get walked due to the nature of the fights/mechanics of dots and the huge nerfs to haste.

Quote :

"imp ambush is in subtlety for a reason, because its an opener."

ambush is a dagger only talent, it needs to be in the dagger tree. you don't see locks with fire talents in their pet tree, or hunters with pet talents in their survival tree? fuck, warriors just got all their pvp talents in one tree. the only classes with trees that arent focused for pve vs pvp are hybrids, but all hybrid specs are viable for pve and pvp (well ret/enhancement not so much but they're fixing it)


[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ?]

11/7/2007 12:58:12 PM

Quote :

"uh, ret paladins with full pvp gear which is all I see when I do see them have as much resil as anyone else. They suck because ret blows pure ass atm."

https://thottbot.com/i32806

https://thottbot.com/?set=714

I see 35 resilience from a set bonus. Add in 20 from medallion, 40 or so from the rings, and another 25ish from the health trinket, and that puts a ret pally in "full pvp" gear at 120ish resil; add 35 or so from the 2-hand, 25ish from neck and cloak and you have ~200, which is absolute shit resilience for 100% season 2 pvp gear. Though I do agree that ret in general is pretty bad.

But to argue that they aren't completely handicapped by itemization (i.e resilience)? Please. It's the same reason warlocks are so dominant in pvp - it's easy to stack stats when you only have 3 stats to concern yourself with - such as stam, resil, and damage for sl/sl locks.

11/7/2007 5:15:43 PM

holy shit focus macros

I wish I used these a long long time ago

11/7/2007 6:36:04 PM

LEEROOOOOOOOOY JENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNS

11/7/2007 7:05:37 PM

SL/SL + resto druid

gayest thing to ever happen to 2v2

11/7/2007 7:22:57 PM