It worked with Batman Begins, so to the execs it probably made sense. Just years too late.

3/24/2016 12:57:58 PM

I think you can do dark and still have some levity.

Winter Soldier was a dark film, but it was also fun. I think we'll see that Civil War is tonally a dark film, but I bet it will be fun.

I understand that DC isn't trying to be Marvel, or try to replicate Marvel's recipe, but there has to be some levity in these films. Even going back to the TDK trilogy, I don't think that TDKR worked as well as the first two because there was no sense of fun.

I'm hoping that this film was a thinly veiled response to the criticism lodged at MoS, and now that it's out of the way and the DCU has been introduced, we'll start having some fun again.

Still, I'm looking forward to see this again tonight.

[Edited on March 24, 2016 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2016 3:21:51 PM

Saw it last night, thought it was pretty good. Definitely not deserving the hate it's getting online. Certain parts feel rushed, one fight scene in particular was a little hard to watch and I didn't like how the cameos were done but I guess it had to be for future standalone movies.

One question I have though.

**SPOILER**

























































Who is the character that Bruce Wayne sees from...the future maybe? I honestly only understood about 1/4 of his dialog, but I believe it was right after the flashback of the god like superman killing batman. He was shouting something about Lois Lane being the key to everything (which Batman did nothing with, but anyway). I'm not sure who that was supposed to be.






































































** END SPOILER **

[Edited on March 25, 2016 at 7:59 AM. Reason : spacing]

3/25/2016 7:58:55 AM

I don't think it's a spoiler as long as the dialogue isn't discussed.

It was Ezra Miller's Flash issuing a warning from the future.

3/25/2016 8:45:56 AM

I, too, saw it last night. I agree that it is not deserving of all the hate but it DID leave a lot to be desired. It was an entertaining film and I enjoyed it but there were still a lot of bad parts/things that just really didn't make sense. Spoiler free rant: The editing of this movie really messed things up. It jumped back and forth between subplots WAY too much and made it hard to follow. If I weren't familiar with some of the different comics that it pulled inspiration from, I would have struggled to follow what was going on. I feel like originally the movie was like 3+ hours long but they had to cut it down to 2.5 hrs so a lot of important stuff was left out (so that it could show a few mins of Bruce Wayne doing crossfit to prepare for his meetup with Superman). I'm hoping that the blu-ray has like 30 mins of extra footage that makes it flow better.
SPOILERS BELOW!





So anyway, pros and cons in my opinion:
Pros:
-Alfred was awesome. Jeremy Irons did a great job. I'd even go as far as to say this is my favorite interpretation of Alfred yet. Snide, sarcastic, clearly showing Bruce that he shouldn't be risking his life for this kind of thing, but still supportive. It was good to see him actually helping Batman in the field too and working on the Batmobile rather than just being his butler/father figure.
-Ben Affleck himself did a pretty decent job. His portrayal of Batman wasn't as good as Bale in my opinion, but he did a much better job as Bruce Wayne.
- The scenes with Batman by himself were really well done. He stole the show in my opinion. The part when the cop first sees him in the corner of the house and he scurried away like a shadow was badass. Also, that fight scene in the warehouse was really good too (even though he let those thugs die from the grenade -- Batman wouldn't let that happen, I feel like they could have just shown him throw a baterang at the grenade and knock it out the window or something).
- I was never a fan of the tumbler in the Dark Knight series so the Batmobile and plane were good. Not too over the top with gimmicky gadgets or anything, but still looked good.

So in short, Batman was the best part of the movie.


Cons:
- Since when are Metropolis and Gotham next to each other? Like seriously, they are right across the bay from each other. You can see the bat signal from the Lexcorp building? These are two giant cities. That would be like New York and Chicago being a mile away from each other. They way cities evolve just wouldn't let that happen. In that situation, Batman just wouldn't exist. Superman could just fly over the water in half a second and deal with any crime in Gotham before anyone even knew he was gone. Hell, he'd be able to hear Joker laughing all the damn time.
- Doomsday looked like a freaking cave troll.
- Batman and Superman became BFFs out of NOWHERE. Batman was about to literally impale him with a kryptonite spear but as soon as he found out that their mothers were both named Martha, he was like "Oh okay. I've thought of you as a threat to humanity for the past 2 years but now I'm your friend."
- What caused Lex Luthor to hate Superman so much? It showed why Batman thought he was dangerous and stuff but there was no motivation behind Luthor's actions. On top of that, how did Luthor figure out Superman's true identity?
- Huge marketing fail revealing that Wonder Woman was in this. It would have been so much better if the first indication we had that she was Wonder Woman was when the flight attendant referred to her as "Ms. Prince"
- The cameos for the other members of the Justice League were too much. They should have just left it with the symbols for Flash/Aquaman/Cyborg when Bruce was looking through the Lexcorp stuff. The videos actually showing them in action were unnecessary.
- Wonder Woman made a comment about how she has not taken part in any of man's conflict since WWI. So Doomsday is enough of a threat to join the fight, but General Zod literally terraforming the planet (which contains her home) is not?
- They went out of their way too much to explain that no innocents were killed in the fighting. "Thankfully it is after business hours so the building is empty!" (nobody works late and no janitorial staff I guess). "He landed on an uninhabited island near Metropolis" (uninhabited island between the two largest cities in America). "Don't worry, this dock is abandoned".
- If they had not nuked Superman, wouldn't that have been the end of it? Doomsday can't fly. He would have just continued going into space. Superman had him sub orbital in like 10 seconds and given the right push at the end, he would have just left orbit and gone into space. But even after the nuke went off, why would it push Doomsday BACK down towards Earth? And of all the places he'd land, he landed right next to Metropolis?

[Edited on March 25, 2016 at 8:56 AM. Reason : ]

3/25/2016 8:55:46 AM

people talking themselves into liking a bad movie they wasted money to see itt

3/25/2016 9:08:21 AM

Quote :

"On top of that, how did Luthor figure out Superman's true identity?"

because he's the only person in that universe who's not a goddamn moron.

3/25/2016 11:40:34 AM

Well yeah its obvious to us, but the entire DC universe can't put it together. At least Christopher Reeve did a good job of making Clark Kent look like a clumsy idiot.

3/25/2016 11:42:19 AM

Saw it last night. Thought it was ok, not very good but not bad either. I thought there were a lot of unnecessary moments and some scenes dragged out too long. I could tell people in the audience felt the same way, lots of people shifting in seats, yawning, checking the time, etc. They could have easily cut 15-30 min from this film.

**Spoilers? below**






Doomsday was lame. Like someone said above, looked like the cave troll from Lord of the Rings.
Wonder Woman's theme song sounded middle eastern to me. I'm not very familiar with Wonder Woman so maybe that really is her theme song from somewhere else or fits her based on her origin, but I thought her music was kind of odd.
I kind of liked Jesse Eisenberg's quirky take on Lex Luthor, but I can understand why some people might hate it. He was a little too over the top sometimes though, almost Joker-ish at times.
The editing and storytelling ruined the movie. Moments were either rushed or drawn out too long. When Lois Lane drowned, suddenly she coughs and is all better and we move on right away.
Why did Lex push Lois off the building? Why not capture her too and have her held on the other side of town from Superman's mother? What would killing her accomplish other than maybe getting himself killed before he could explain?
The nuke scene was totally unnecessary except maybe as a device to strengthen Doomsday. The military decided almost immediately to nuke him, like right after he emerged.
I could go on for a while so I'll end with the best part of the movie which was the scene where Amy Adams is in the bathtub.






[Edited on March 25, 2016 at 12:26 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2016 12:19:41 PM

Spoilers

^

Quote :

"When Lois Lane drowned, suddenly she coughs and is all better and we move on right away."

To add to this amidst all that burning/buildings exploding/things falling apart/Doomsday screaming/etc., Superman was able to off handedly zoom in on Lois barely thumping on the underside of a concrete wall while underwater. I get that he has super hearing and can tune stuff out, but why did he randomly zone in on that one sound amongst hundreds of other similar sounds that would be associated with buildings falling down?

3/25/2016 2:23:20 PM

I didn't hate this movie as much as the reviews led me to believe I would, but it could have been FAR better with a competent director and editor.

Also Age of Ultron was way better than this was. All the problems AoU had (and it did have problems) this movie had to an even greater degree. All of the dream sequences should have been cut entirely. They spent way too much of this movie setting up other movies. and...

[SPOILER]




The movie ended with TWO drawn out funerals, that were entirely narratively unearned, for the same person who isn't even freaking dead




[/SPOILER]

3/25/2016 11:44:44 PM

I don't mind spoilers

Just tell me one thing. Where did they get kryptonite from? How does everyone knows it works?

3/26/2016 4:20:57 PM

^ The wreck of the world engines, and it caused cellular destruction on Zod's corpse

3/26/2016 5:14:40 PM

this could have probably been edited into a pretty solid movie

as-is it's alright, but disappointing given its potential

3/26/2016 6:42:55 PM

It was a complete piece of shit. Snyder should be fucking ashamed

3/26/2016 9:52:50 PM

Wasn't even that bad, people are just bitchy. The ending was mostly unnecessary, but otherwise it was enjoyable.

3/26/2016 10:31:31 PM

Should have made Adrian Grenier Aquaman.

3/26/2016 11:02:39 PM

Decent movie, yes. Enjoyable, yes. But just about everyone I've talked to agrees that it has some serious editing problems.

3/27/2016 4:13:47 AM

This movie confuses me, because it's clearly a bad movie, and yet I enjoyed it.

Spoilers, etc. (Though how or why you would read this thread intending to avoid spoilers, I don't know)



There are a lot of plot holes in terms of material that just isn't there but should be. The biggest one: Why does Lex Luthor do anything he does? I guess maybe his constant references to God are supposed to cover his motivation, but they don't pull it off.

This thing in the Malian (or whatever fake country) desert turning people against Superman is a total nonstarter for me. Arranging the trap is too complicated. I don't understand why people would blame Superman for a bunch of people who were clearly shot to death. And nobody in America, even DC Comics America, gives a shit when a bunch of Africans get killed.

And in general terms it was just too much stuff crammed into too much movie.

AND YET...

I can't make myself hate it or even really dislike it. And I went into it expecting to do both.

It's too busy and too long, but for what it clearly is -- an effort to jump start a franchise to compete with Marvel -- I actually thought they did about as well as could be done. I guess it strikes me a superhero movie that sets its sights too high and falls short, rather than one that is content to just rake in money.

More importantly, it's the first Superman treatment I've encountered that I actually kind of liked. Normally he's just too perfect, unstoppable, all-American-Midwest-pretty-boy for me to give a shit. The idea that he could just as easily go all fascist appeals to me, as does the notion that he's not just the archetypal hero. And some of the philosophical implications of having what is essentially a demigod were mildly interesting -- and at least they were addressed, which is more than can be said for Thor.

And I was impressed by Ben Affleck, particularly as Bruce Wayne. Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne was always off-putting, like the hero's secret identity was the guy from American Psycho.

3/27/2016 1:49:48 PM

Quote :

"The idea that he could just as easily go all fascist appeals to me, as does the notion that he's not just the archetypal hero. And some of the philosophical implications of having what is essentially a demigod were mildly interesting -- and at least they were addressed, which is more than can be said for Thor."

I was hoping this would be what the entire movie plot would center around, but it didn't.

I liked the movie too though, despite all the weird plot choices... I think mentally I kept telling myself "well, it is a comic book" and things were okay.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/26/11308944/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-review-spoilers-nonsense

3/27/2016 10:24:10 PM

I don't care about your breakdown. I want to know ...

How does it feel to waste 2.5 hours of your life then sadly waste more of your worthless existence defending your lowly investment on the internet about your wasted investment because you were corralled into the movie theatre by shitty youtube trailers.

3/27/2016 11:04:20 PM

u mad?

3/28/2016 1:18:04 PM

*SPOILERS*
Deleted scene from BvS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s&feature=youtu.be

3/28/2016 1:30:58 PM

Another civil war.

3/28/2016 2:20:05 PM

I'm Batman.

3/30/2016 10:52:08 PM

Saw it last night. Knew it'd been panned, but I thought it was a perfectly fine comic book movie. Affleck was a nice "grizzled veteran" Batman, and this is the first live action Batman movie where you see Batman's main character flaw-his paranoia-largely developed. (You could argue controlling all phone activity at the end of Dark Knight.)

That said, I seriously do not need to see Bruce's parents die ever again, I have seen it so many times. The scene is cliche at this point.

Never really been a Superman guy. I saw the movie released back in '06 with Kevin Spacey and that was it. But fine touching on his simple-mindedness and ignoring as comic books do all the destruction that's caused as you save the world. Thought the first scene with Affleck driving through the carnage was great in a kind of Cloverfield way.

Lex was just odd. Should've just gone for intelligent psychopath instead of social awkwardness.

The actress playing Wonder Woman for what little screen time she had was great. And I just realized she was in Fast & Furious.

Really looking forward to Suicide Squad. Thought this movie would have something for that.

[Edited on April 6, 2016 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

4/6/2016 11:20:18 AM

^I actually heard that after the critical lashing that BvS got, they are doing some heavy editing and changes on Suicide Squad.

4/6/2016 11:53:48 AM

^They are injecting more humor.

Rumor is that the last trailer had most all humor in the movie and its what the audience responded to. So the re shoots are to add more and break up the depressed tone some.

4/6/2016 1:12:39 PM

A movie with Harley Quinn needs more humor?

[Edited on April 6, 2016 at 2:21 PM. Reason : j]

4/6/2016 2:20:46 PM

Yea, spending millions to do reshoots to break up a super dark movie.

4/6/2016 2:44:18 PM

I didn't think it was terrible. Not great, but not as bad as a lot of the reviews have made it out to be. Way too many plot points crammed into one movie, but that can kind of be expected with world building super hero movies now.

The things I didn't like were that I don't think they did a great job of setting up Affleck's Batman. I liked the character and Affleck fine enough - but this Batman was so drastically different than the one that the public came to know in Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy and the movie just kind of jumps off without much of an introduction. Things like how 4 years ago Nolan's Batman wasn't killing anyone - now Affleck's Batman just straight up murders tons of people. I get this is a different character and everything, but it just felt a bit much.

Also didn't quite get this:

Quote :

"- Batman and Superman became BFFs out of NOWHERE. Batman was about to literally impale him with a kryptonite spear but as soon as he found out that their mothers were both named Martha, he was like "Oh okay. I've thought of you as a threat to humanity for the past 2 years but now I'm your friend.""

The movie is titled Batman vs. Superman, and I think everyone knew going in that at the end they'd be teaming up, but Batman decides not to kill him because Superman yelled the name "Martha".

Jeremy Irons & Gal Galdot were the two best things about the movie though. I'd love to see a future Batman film that gives Alfred a lot more screen time than he's gotten in the past.

4/6/2016 3:16:21 PM

I liked the movie well enough, but man did Lex Luthor get on my nerves. I can't stand his portrayal in this film.

4/6/2016 3:26:32 PM

^^^

1. How can a movie with Harley Quinn as one of the main characters not have enough humor?
2. I thought they were basing the Suicide Squad movie heavily on the animated movie they did a few years ago which served as a test run for a feature film? It had plenty of humor:

Harley Quinn: "I used to work here, I was a psychiatrist. Also, people that throw boomerangs have problems letting things go."

4/6/2016 5:27:28 PM

Just what I've seen being discussed

4/6/2016 11:35:37 PM

I'm thinking she is more on the sadistic side of crazy(see Leto) rather than oh she is a cutie and crazy, lets have her make some jokes.

4/7/2016 8:58:00 AM

Why is Auqaman holding his breath?

5/3/2016 3:01:59 PM

Maybe he just peed.

5/4/2016 10:43:28 AM

This movie was pretty great. I don't get all of the hate from critics.

7/22/2016 7:00:37 PM

This is a movie with some serious depth into Batman and Superman. Batman, for the first time ever really, gets pushed to the point that he is actually just bleeding fear right out of him. Once during the superman fight, and once during the doomsday fight. That was cool.

Superman was really humanized in this film, which is an aspect that people and critics have been seriously overlooking. He wasn't brought down to his knees by some alien stone, it was leverage that was pulling at a strong bond of love for his human mother that made him a puppet to Lex. Anyone that has ever had to make serious sacrifices in their lives knows that leverage is the most dangerous weapon that can be used to make somebody act against their will. Then, during the fight where batman was ridiculing him about not know what braveness is, you can see him develop the courage to hold off batman and fight him even though he was uncertain about the strength of his body.

I really thought that the portrayal of Lex's character that focused on how he was obsessed in both determining the meaning of a god as well as exposing Superman as a false idol twas really well done. That was actually a fairly believable take on how Superman's nemesis would behave. People complaining about his jolts and jitters most have forgotten about the Joker in TDK licking his lips and jerking his head around every five seconds. I just think that this movie needed a much better side villain or henchman that got in the mud and fought with Batman, as the Russian guy that they had for this role really did not come of as intimidating at all.

And lol at all the critics crying about fast editing and characters coming out of nowhere, did they even watch Age of Ultron and Civil War? I liked the subplots with the senate hearings and lois being a detective because it helped to really expose the severity and size of the plan that Lex was employing.

I am really just shocked that this movie got panned the way that it did. I can't help but think that Marvel is getting the golden boy treatment and critics just won't cut DC any slack.


[Edited on July 24, 2016 at 7:33 AM. Reason : a]

7/24/2016 7:11:22 AM

Quote :

"Superman was really humanized in this film, which is an aspect that people and critics have been seriously overlooking. He wasn't brought down to his knees by some alien stone, it was leverage that was pulling at a strong bond of love for his human mother that made him a puppet to Lex. Anyone that has ever had to make serious sacrifices in their lives knows that leverage is the most dangerous weapon that can be used to make somebody act against their will. Then, during the fight where batman was ridiculing him about not know what braveness is, you can see him develop the courage to hold off batman and fight him even though he was uncertain about the strength of his body. "

Superman/Clark only has 43 lines in this movie. http://www.thewrap.com/superman-only-had-43-lines-in-batman-v-superman/. He isn't well humanized because he rarely displays human emotions. Snyder just doesn't understand Superman. The worst part about his characterization in this movie is the dark, slow motion montage of Superman helping people. Instead of a hero who takes joy in saving people we have a brooding Jesus figure who seems to consider saving people his greatest burden.

Quote :

"I really thought that the portrayal of Lex's character that focused on how he was obsessed in both determining the meaning of a god as well as exposing Superman as a false idol twas really well done. That was actually a fairly believable take on how Superman's nemesis would behave. People complaining about his jolts and jitters most have forgotten about the Joker in TDK licking his lips and jerking his head around every five seconds. I just think that this movie needed a much better side villain or henchman that got in the mud and fought with Batman, as the Russian guy that they had for this role really did not come of as intimidating at all."

The Joker is a legitimate crazy person. Lex Luthor is one of the most wealthy and powerful CEOs in the world. One of the criticisms I've seen everywhere is that Jessie Eisenberg played a really good Joker.

Quote :

" And lol at all the critics crying about fast editing and characters coming out of nowhere, did they even watch Age of Ultron and Civil War? I liked the subplots with the senate hearings and lois being a detective because it helped to really expose the severity and size of the plan that Lex was employing."

Ultron was criticized for its editing too. The Senate hearing was just one of many points of wasted potential in this movie. The movie took a lot of time asking the questions of how much power should Superman have and should he be accountable to human law, then when they get into the courtroom when they have a chance to start answering those questions, they just blew it up. Also the lois in Africa subplot was just a waste of time, only thing it really showed us is how little Snyder cares about Superman. That photographer who has about 2 lines and then gets shot? He's credited as Jimmy Olsen.

7/24/2016 8:58:46 AM

Quote :

"Superman/Clark only has 43 lines in this movie. http://www.thewrap.com/superman-only-had-43-lines-in-batman-v-superman/. He isn't well humanized because he rarely displays human emotions. Snyder just doesn't understand Superman. The worst part about his characterization in this movie is the dark, slow motion montage of Superman helping people. Instead of a hero who takes joy in saving people we have a brooding Jesus figure who seems to consider saving people his greatest burden."

Oh do I miss the days before Tarantino came around and had everybody talk the camera to death. That point during the fight where SuperMan is close to giving up, then looks up at Batman with a grin and smile as he plunges back at him is a classic portrayal of a hero that reaches his breaking point and decides to devote his entire life to the cause. Indiana Jones had one, Neo had one, and now Superman has one. It is called acting, not explaining everything to the camera. The point of the Montage wasn't to show that he was burdened by his task, but that it was just sleep-walking to him and he wasn't quite human yet, wasn't quite challenged to death yet. That montage scene serves to later provide a key element in his character development.

Think about it, is Luke Skywalker a whiney little bitch because he wanted to go to the Toshi Station with his friends instead of cleaning up for his Uncle? Those scenes set up a character arc.

Quote :

"The Joker is a legitimate crazy person. Lex Luthor is one of the most wealthy and powerful CEOs in the world. One of the criticisms I've seen everywhere is that Jessie Eisenberg played a really good Joker. "

Except that the joker was not obsessed with chasing theology and finding the true meaning of what God is, of what real power actually is. The Joker was a legitimate crazy person which is why he got his hands dirty. Lex, in this film, was more of a man operating in the shadows that needed a better henchman.

A perfect example is the chase scene where Batman tries to get the stone out of the 18 wheeler. None of those side villains really meant anything at all to the audience, and so all they saw were cgi cars going after each other. Compare that to the eerily similar chase scene in the dark knight where the Joker and Batman continued to just challenge each other with their devotion and drive. It was much more effective at creating suspense. I will say that the first attempt to steal the stone was my only major issue with the movie.

Quote :

" That photographer who has about 2 lines and then gets shot? He's credited as Jimmy Olsen. "

Cry me a fucking river. Just because a director wants to pay tribute to a cool character, or even a different movie cast altogether, it doesn't mean that they have to make a money shot out of it. A perfect example was JJ Abrams giving the Raid 2 cast a cameo in TFA. The internet couldn't shut up about "wasting" them when what JJ Abrams did was pay a huge honor to them (and a rather over-looked film) by putting them in that role. He certainly didn't have to do that



[Edited on July 24, 2016 at 9:51 AM. Reason : a]

7/24/2016 9:37:12 AM

There were some decent parts, but good lord this was a bad movie overall.

8/21/2016 12:08:44 AM

I rewatched this again. I like it even more now.

I really like Snyder's portrayal of Bruce's father and Alfred. It just really never made sense to me that Bruce Wayne's main father figures were a weak and chubby doctor and a submissive "yes, sir" butler.



[Edited on August 21, 2016 at 7:14 PM. Reason : a]

8/21/2016 6:47:19 PM

?????

In the comics Alfed is mainly a yes sir butler. Alfed's father was the Wayne's butler too.

And in the comics Bruce's father didn't fight back if that's what you're implying?

8/21/2016 8:30:18 PM

I liked it

10/1/2016 10:38:32 PM

^^Not in the literal sense, I meant in terms of a butler that just brings OJ on a silver tray and dishes out the occasional quippy word of wisdom while apparently just disappearing when the action takes place. For this cinematic Batman (especially since they are not using Robin), who is an orphan with no paternal father figure, it is much more plausible that Alfred likes to get his hands dirty and plays an active, badass role in the action and behind-the-scenes work, probably serving as a mentor of sorts.

Michael Caine as Alfred works because it was the perfect platform for him to deliver his quippy, natural cockney persona. But let's not forget that his real father figure in the Nolan universe was Ra's al Ghul.

And regarding his father, I was referring to him as an imposing presence more so than a fighter. I mean, Batman/Bruce Wayne is a huge physical specimen, and I always hated the casting choices that they made for his father being rather small, delicate and pudgy. Most big people have bigness in their genes. Plus, isn't there comic book precedent for his father also being the HNIC (will look this up and respond in edits)?

[Edited on October 2, 2016 at 6:52 AM. Reason : Yes, there is tons of it.]

10/2/2016 6:50:05 AM

Watched this movie again, and i've come to realize that Banjoman loses any credibility he had by liking this movie as much as he did.

One major issue for me is how Batman brings Doomsday back to Gotham to get him near the spear. WTF. Let's bring an insanely destructive monster back to the city to bring him near this weapon that is totally portable.

Why not just head back to Gotham in his plane, get the spear, and bring it back to the island? It's almost like in editing, as an afterthought, they had WOnder Woman ask that same question.

[Edited on August 11, 2021 at 9:20 AM. Reason : asdfa]

8/11/2021 9:18:55 AM