Quote :

"we're essentially saying that we're keeping lowe so we don't lose 3 recruits, not because he's a good coach. "

Its not what I'm saying...I still think he can get it done long term. Although, assuming nothing else, if keeping him is the only thing that lets me see Brown and Harrow suit up for us, I'm taking that gamble. Anything else is retarded. You won't find one coach in the country that will keep those 2 if we fire sid. fucking phil jackson wouldn't.

2/15/2010 10:03:25 AM

That's it, I've fucking had it...

Sid can fucking coach. He's suckin' it up right now b/c it took a while get the hang of recruiting, and right now it's biting him the ass. You dickbags need to get off his ass for not being able to do shit with our shitty ass team. Seriously... WHAT... THE... FUCK are you dumbasses talking about?! Our guards SUCK. Mays is fucking terrible, Degand airballs 3-pointers, and Javi hasn't done shit since the Duke game. We got two FRESHMEN playing the 3. We got two more freshmen playing behind a glorified role player (Horner) at the 4. The only guy that's worth a damn is Smith, and for fuck sake he can't win the damn game all by himself.

Also, every stupid ass coaching comparison I've seen compares the hiring of Lowe to the hiring of an established college-level coach (Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy, Calipari, etc.). What fucking genius expects a guy with no experience to compete in the fucking ACC right away? Even Dean Smith and Coach fucking K sucked it up in their first 4 years. We all should have expected Lowe to struggle upfront, and if you didn't then you're a fucking idiot. If you still wanna bitch and whine, then bitch and whine about our stupid fucking AD (Fowler), b/c he's the fucktard that got us in the mess in the 1st place.

Lastly, fuck Calipari being coach here. That dude has TWO different fucking teams from different fucking schools that vacated a Final 4 appearance. Anyone remember why State fell off the map 2 decades ago? That's right, a fucking scandal. Anyone want to guess what a second fucking scandal would do to us? I sure as fuck don't. So fuck Calipari and fuck all the other greasy scumbags that find ways to sign 5* morons that make Chris Washburn look like a fucking genius.


Summary - Everyone just calm the fuck down.


[/my fucking rant... fuck]

2/15/2010 1:09:22 PM

^ so...he's had 4 years to find someone who can be a competent guard and he's failed and I'm supposed to accept that?

Anyone talking about Calipari is a dumbass who apparently likes NCAA sanctions.

But...

all I'm saying is NC State is more than capable of getting someone who has coached a low-profile team into a position to be competitive in the NCAAs (like a Butler or a VCU or a Siena).

Why wait around for someone to get to a competitive level when you could have someone who's already there? I could care less where he went to school. We could wait for coolguy to join the ACC in his coaching ability and hope that next year's class saves him, or get a proven competitor before the competition snatches them up.

Not to mention, Siena's Fran McCaffery used to be at UNCG. Just saying.

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

2/15/2010 1:24:52 PM

ATTN: Erios

u mad?

2/15/2010 1:29:24 PM

Quote :

"^ so...he's had 4 years to find someone who can be a competent guard and he's failed and I'm supposed to accept that?"

I get your sentiment, but again... you're not offering up an honest argument.

1st off, you're glossing over the fact that Lowe has had 3 recruiting classes, not 4. He had nothing to do with the "1st recruiting class" when he was hired. 2nd, most decent players sign in November, so Sid's "2nd recruiting class" was taken from maybe 10% of the class as a whole. You criticize his 3rd year (Mays) all you like. No issue here. But in his 4th year Lowe got a great pickup in Brown, who didn't qualify. Tough fucking luck. It was an unexpected blow at the worst possible time.

This, IMHO, is why I accept this situation for what it is.

EDIT: ^ yeah, read the same stupid shit over and over again and blew a gasket. Don't worry, I'm OK

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/15/2010 1:37:35 PM

^^ a few things:

1. you can't put this all on sid, he bailed our asses out when we had no other options due to incompetent Fowler... when you wait forever to look for a coach there isnt going to be anyone available.
2. sid came in with ZERO college coaching experience... to expect him to be able to recruit from day 1 is unreasonable...
i know i know why hire someone with that amount of experience? as Lee Fowler

sid has shown that he can build solid recruiting classes... any coach in American that has to rely on walkons to start is going to fail. look at his first year... we had something like 6 scholarship athletes on that team... we had a strong leader at the point and we didnt play to shabby.

most of the older players on this team were signed up because we had no one to play the position

give the guy a break... let him build something... if after next year we show 0 improvement sure light a fire but until then chill the fuck out

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM. Reason : ^]

2/15/2010 1:38:00 PM

hes gonna be around as long as we bring the WOLFPACK RALLEY

2/15/2010 1:43:22 PM

Quote :

"Also, every stupid ass coaching comparison I've seen compares the hiring of Lowe to the hiring of an established college-level coach (Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy, Calipari, etc.). What fucking genius expects a guy with no experience to compete in the fucking ACC right away? "

would you prefer we compare him to guys he has more similarities to?

2/15/2010 3:18:11 PM

The Knicks should have given Isaiah another 3 years so he could coach Lebron!

2/15/2010 6:42:30 PM

Quote :

"all I'm saying is NC State is more than capable of getting someone who has coached a low-profile team into a position to be competitive in the NCAAs (like a Butler or a VCU or a Siena). "

Horse shit. Its as much if not more of a gamble than hanging on to Lowe for a year to see if Harrow and Brown can turn the corner for him (on second thought though, its fucking retarded).

As I've said since the beginning, if he's not getting it done after 5 seasons, the situation needs to be seriously evaluated. We gave Herb 6, he was an ass clown, and the situation he took over, although much less desireable, wasn't as bad as the 6 scholarship players and 3 years worth of recruiting that was fucked up when Sendek bolted. Argue that we went to 5 straight tourney's all you want, we werent' going Sidney's first year if Sendek had stayed (assuming the Atsur injury and Larry Davis sucking as much as he has sinced proved). Thats why he left.

Anyway, point being, we can't afford to get rid of Lowe now so any negativity towards him is just absurd. Sure, question him, question recruiting, question what you want. Nobody is telling you not to. Harrow was asking people to stop being so malignant and absurd every time we lose a game.

We were picked to finished last for a reason, and you're seeing it now. We're overmatched at the 2 most important positions on the floor. Any argument you have against that is invalid.

2/15/2010 8:38:46 PM

Quote :

"Argue that we went to 5 straight tourney's all you want, we werent' going Sidney's first year if Sendek had stayed"

Grant
Costner
McCauley
Atsur
Fells
--------
Horner
Ferguson
Werner
Nieman
Davis

are you seriously say that Herb doesn't take that team to the NCAAs? think about it for a second

2/15/2010 9:04:12 PM

Quote :

"we werent' going Sidney's first year if Sendek had stayed (assuming the Atsur injury and Larry Davis sucking as much as he has sinced proved). Thats why he left."

Whaaa?

He left here b/c he wasn't going to make the tournament to go to ASU, the doormat of the Pac10? Are you kidding me? That's why you think he left?

2/15/2010 9:08:20 PM

^^atsur has to get hurt for herb too

and no he would not take them to the tourney because look who is there to play in place of atsur

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 9:09 PM. Reason : a]

2/15/2010 9:08:52 PM

Atsur played in 24 games that year....played in all but 4 conference games

Herb can get Fells or Terd to run the point during that stretch see edit

team went 6-6 in the 12 games that Engin was hurt. Herb's coaching wins them at least 2 of those losses

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 9:19 PM. Reason : actually, Grant ran a lot of point during that stretch]

2/15/2010 9:12:52 PM

Quote :

",all I'm saying is NC State is more than capable of getting someone who has coached a low-profile team into a position to be competitive in the NCAAs (like a Butler or a VCU or a Siena). Why wait around for someone to get to a competitive level when you could have someone who's already there?"

do you not remember the last coaching search?

noone wants to come here, that's why Sid is here in the first place. its not like he was advocating himself for the job, he was the only option.

2/15/2010 9:13:00 PM

Quote :

"are you seriously say that Herb doesn't take that team to the NCAAs? think about it for a second"

he probably would. and he might make it to the 2nd round. and it'd probably be boring.



[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 9:25 PM. Reason : ]

2/15/2010 9:25:05 PM

at least you're agreeing that he would have gone. and that was the only argument

2/15/2010 9:26:21 PM

Quote :

"He left here b/c he wasn't going to make the tournament to go to ASU, the doormat of the Pac10? Are you kidding me? That's why you think he left?"

no, thats not the reason he left. He left because there was a damn good possibility that he wouldn't make the tournament with significantly less talent than he had in the year before when he was taking shit from the fanbase already.

...and for the record (for the 1000th time) I wasn't one of the idiots trying to run Herb off that season.

2/15/2010 9:36:34 PM

I would give Sidney every benefit of the doubt if I saw something on the court that showed progress. But since the Duke game everyone has regressed except Smith.

There was no doubt in my mind that the team had no will to win against UNC. There is no confidence in this team. No heart. No hustle.

And I don't understand everyone who is saying 'Wait till next year'. What happens next year when the prized recruits perform like freshmen (Wood for example) and we still finish in the bottom of the ACC? Your argument should be wait till 2011-12 season. That's when I those guys will make an impact. Next year, Mays and Javi will still see significant minutes.

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 9:52 PM. Reason : ?]

2/15/2010 9:50:05 PM

brown will contribute immediately and will start from day 1

Harrow maybe not in the beginning but moreso over time

2/15/2010 9:53:12 PM

^So did Wood. He'll still be a freshman.

2/15/2010 9:56:42 PM

that comparison is so, so accurate.

2/15/2010 10:02:50 PM

It's surely relevant. It's hard for a freshman to play at a high level all year long. Sure, there are exceptions (Melo and Durant) but you surely don't go in to a year thinking that freshmen ranked where Harrow and Brown are going to be elite caliber ACC players as freshmen.

To be honest, I think Lowe is a pretty terrible coach but I'm not even sure it would be fair to can him after next year since the core of the team will be freshmen. I mean who knows what they'll give us at this point. They could both give us Henson-type years (and this is coming from someone who is 100% certain Henson will be a lottery guy at some point) which would be disastrous...

[Edited on February 15, 2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason : x]

2/15/2010 10:05:18 PM

I'm throwing 60 to 1 odds that we'll be relevant in five years.

2/15/2010 10:05:44 PM

Quote :

" are you seriously say that Herb doesn't take that team to the NCAAs? think about it for a second"

yeah, he probably would have. they were after all HIS recruits for HIS system.

2/15/2010 10:09:21 PM

I still respect Sidney Lowe.

2/15/2010 10:11:14 PM

Here is my thing, I understand the rage. But any talk about Sid going needs to be pushed back until a new AD. I don't want to see another really shitty coaching search again.

2/15/2010 10:30:25 PM

Quote :

"Did jadn really just compare professional coaching jobs (particularly the EPL) to college coaching jobs? We don't have a general manager, we don't have an owner We can't go out and buy top-flight talent to fit our coach C'mon guy"

yeah, i did.


You know why?

because it's the same fucking thing.

we don't have an owner, but we have a board of trustees - same shit.

we don't have a general manager? we have a fucking AD.

we can't go out and buy players? of course not. but what does offering them a scholarship do? buy their commitment for 4 years.




It's the same fucking shit. Don't get on some fucking high horse like it's not. If you can't see the obvious parallels then I'm gonna have to deduct a lot of respect points for you




Bottom line is - the players aren't professionals, but the coach is supposed to be.


And if you think that by any means Sidney Lowe is anywhere close to the caliber of coach that should be coaching in the ACC now, or even 10 fucking years from now, then you are fucking fooling yourself.

2/15/2010 10:59:23 PM

Ryan Harrow basically told everyone of you in this thread to eat it. I believe you all will in the next few years.

2/15/2010 11:25:01 PM

i can't wait to eat it. aside from Scott Wood, whom I abhor, I have never said anything negative about any player. quite the contrary, as evidenced by my Horner-love thread(s)

coaches, on the other hand, are fair game. I will continue to air my grievances when it comes to Sid and staff until they show me that they are capable of winning games...and hopefully the 2010-11 class is all it will take

2/15/2010 11:28:41 PM

I don't give a fuck about a recruit's opinion of the fanbase. I'm not gonna jerk off some high school kid because some coach he hasn't even played for yet told him he's the fucking bee's knee's.


If he commits to NC State, then he commits to NC State. And if he doesn't? Fuck him. No one fucking kid, coach, or fan is bigger than the program as far as I'm concerned.

2/16/2010 1:07:13 AM

ITT, kiljadn gets real with ya

2/16/2010 1:08:11 AM

shit makes me so fucking angry when people are just like DURP DA DURP IT'S OK, GIVE HIM TIME, WE'LL JUST KEEP HIM AROUND EVEN THOUGH HE KEEPS FUCKING UP


any job ANYWHERE fires you when you DO NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE PAID TO DO


PAID TO WIN


WINS NOT HAPPENING


STILL HAS JOB


BROKEN SYSTEM


SHIT PRODUCT


DISSATISFIED FANS





all caps attack ITT

2/16/2010 1:16:32 AM

^You sure he isn't doing what he was paid to do?

2/16/2010 4:41:23 AM

Quote :

"If he commits to NC State, then he commits to NC State.."

Nope, he's committed to Lowe. It was Lowe who found him and gave him a chance when no one knew who the hell he was. Lowe is the one he always brings up in the interviews when asked why he chose State. And if Lowe is canned, I'm almost 100% sure Harrow's loyalty to Lowe would keep him away from NC State.

Anybody who doesn't want to keep Sid around one more year to (a) get Harrow on campus (b) get his cousin on campus (c) see what Lowe can do with some legit backcourt talent is a fucking retard.

2/16/2010 7:07:42 AM

Quote :

"Anybody who doesn't want to keep Sid around one more year to (a) get Harrow on campus (b) get his cousin on campus (c) see what Lowe can do with some legit backcourt talent is a fucking retard."

As I've said, I don't want him fired right now. Partly because of the talent and partly because of Lee Fowler still being there.

But I really have a problem with the people who think it is unreasonable that some people might want him fired and it sure as shit doesn't make them a "fucking retard" as you so eloquently put it.

We went through this before (waiting on recruits, less injuries, better shooting, etc, etc, etc) with Sendek and it completely split the fanbase in half to the point where it still isn't recovered -- and we were actually winning games and making tournaments then.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 7:50 AM. Reason : x]

2/16/2010 7:50:27 AM

^agreed

2/16/2010 8:04:39 AM

Quote :

" Grant Costner McCauley Atsur Fells -------- Horner Ferguson Werner Nieman Davis are you seriously say that Herb doesn't take that team to the NCAAs? think about it for a second"

Where we coulda made it, but ti'd have been yet another 1st, maybe 2nd round exit. Forgive me for not being all that excited about that...

2/16/2010 8:33:35 AM

Well, some of us used to get excited about making the NCAA tournament.

Now we get excited that incoming freshmen might get us into the 2011 Big10-ACC challenge.

2/16/2010 8:37:06 AM

I was actually fine with going in another direction from Herb. But I have to say, I never in a million years envisioned us having to rebuild the entire program from scratch essentially when that happened... and neither did ANYONE else.

Whether it was Fowler bungling the search or us simply not being an attractive destination to coach or a 50/50 combo of each it happened.

I also enjoyed his last five seasons. There. I said it. I enjoyed being in the ACC race, playing for the ACC title multiple times no matter how heartbreaking it was and being able to watch our team play in the NCAA Tournament.

I was fine with him being fired/leaving/being forced out/whatever but I enjoyed being a respectable and relevant program, no matter if people THOUGHT we'd never go farther (which for a program that had one of the more remarkable runs in CBB history is sort of crazy to me).

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 8:50 AM. Reason : x]

2/16/2010 8:50:13 AM

Quote :

"do you not remember the last coaching search? noone wants to come here, that's why Sid is here in the first place. its not like he was advocating himself for the job, he was the only option."

I mean, he can stay a little longer and longer still if he proves me wrong.

But any team in a big conference is an attractive option for a coach looking to move up. To say that we can't do better than Sid if he can't move up from the cellar by his 5th year is a little silly.

Quote :

"I was actually fine with going in another direction from Herb. But I have to say, I never in a million years envisioned us having to rebuild the entire program from scratch essentially when that happened... and neither did ANYONE else. Whether it was Fowler bungling the search or us simply not being an attractive destination to coach or a 50/50 combo of each it happened. I also enjoyed his last five seasons. There. I said it. I enjoyed being in the ACC race, playing for the ACC title multiple times no matter how heartbreaking it was and being able to watch our team play in the NCAA Tournament. I was fine with him being fired/leaving/being forced out/whatever but I enjoyed being a respectable and relevant program, no matter if people THOUGHT we'd never go farther (which for a program that had one of the more remarkable runs in CBB history is sort of crazy to me)."

This

Ok, I can't stress this sort of thing much longer. I'm officially giving him one more year.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 8:58 AM. Reason : .]

2/16/2010 8:54:22 AM

Quote :

"But I really have a problem with the people who think it is unreasonable that some people might want him fired and it sure as shit doesn't make them a "fucking retard" as you so eloquently put it. "

People that want him fired ARE fucking retards who aren't evaluating the entire situation and are being emotional based on beating d00k and subsequently falling back to our rightful place in the bottom of the ACC.

People who question whether or not he can get it done long term are not retards, but those aren't the people who we're arguing with. Its the "he sucks fire him now who gives a fuck about Harrow and Brown Lowe has proven he can't do it on this level and i'm ignoring the fact that he had to play catch-up in recruiting and finally hit a home run in 2010 but lets fire him anyway and start over even though we have the best 2 guards in 20 years coming in" people that are retards. And don't act like nobody is saying that. There are a handful of people on here doing it, more on crackride, and all of SFN are.

2/16/2010 10:41:49 AM

Quote :

"That's it, I've fucking had it... Sid can fucking coach. He's suckin' it up right now b/c it took a while get the hang of recruiting, and right now it's biting him the ass. You dickbags need to get off his ass for not being able to do shit with our shitty ass team. Seriously... WHAT... THE... FUCK are you dumbasses talking about?! Our guards SUCK. Mays is fucking terrible, Degand airballs 3-pointers, and Javi hasn't done shit since the Duke game. We got two FRESHMEN playing the 3. We got two more freshmen playing behind a glorified role player (Horner) at the 4. The only guy that's worth a damn is Smith, and for fuck sake he can't win the damn game all by himself. Also, every stupid ass coaching comparison I've seen compares the hiring of Lowe to the hiring of an established college-level coach (Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy, Calipari, etc.). What fucking genius expects a guy with no experience to compete in the fucking ACC right away? Even Dean Smith and Coach fucking K sucked it up in their first 4 years. We all should have expected Lowe to struggle upfront, and if you didn't then you're a fucking idiot. If you still wanna bitch and whine, then bitch and whine about our stupid fucking AD (Fowler), b/c he's the fucktard that got us in the mess in the 1st place. Lastly, fuck Calipari being coach here. That dude has TWO different fucking teams from different fucking schools that vacated a Final 4 appearance. Anyone remember why State fell off the map 2 decades ago? That's right, a fucking scandal. Anyone want to guess what a second fucking scandal would do to us? I sure as fuck don't. So fuck Calipari and fuck all the other greasy scumbags that find ways to sign 5* morons that make Chris Washburn look like a fucking genius. Summary - Everyone just calm the fuck down. [/my fucking rant... fuck]"

this is literally Lee Fowlers logic too. which i happen to be agreeing with at the moment. b/c I don't want to 'start over' again so quick.

2/16/2010 10:59:04 AM

Quote :

"Where we coulda made it, but ti'd have been yet another 1st, maybe 2nd round exit. Forgive me for not being all that excited about that..."

exactly, we have a better chance if we just sit out of the tourney comple..... oh wait.

2/16/2010 11:00:55 AM

Wolfpack has much to look forward to next season

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/7038434/[

2/16/2010 11:01:48 AM

Quote :

"If Javi Gonzalez keeps getting better, then next year's roster appears to have a perfect mix of experience and talent."

this is true. point guard ace needed. even if it's a non-talented upper classman that has needed 3 years under his belt to become 'above average'

2/16/2010 11:06:19 AM

Quote :

"But I really have a problem with the people who think it is unreasonable that some people might want him fired and it sure as shit doesn't make them a "fucking retard" as you so eloquently put it."

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be questioning Lowe's coaching ability. There's no reason not to at this point. I'm saying anybody who wants him gone after this season -- causing us to lose what appears to be the best backcourt tandem we've had since Corchiani and Monroe -- is a fucking retard.

If he falls flat with those two next year (assuming NC State shit doesn't get in the way of a fair evaluation), then it's definitely time to look elsewhere. Harrow and Brown will already be on campus. But give the guy a chance at least.

And I get the Sendek/recruit thing, but I don't think Chris Wright is Ryan Harrow, and Larry Davis sure as hell isn't Lorenzo Brown.

2/16/2010 1:46:38 PM

are either of them Julius Hodge?

2/16/2010 1:58:10 PM

why is the same exact argument going on in 2 separate threads?

2/16/2010 2:06:42 PM

^^In regards to their ranking? Impact? Quotability? I'm not following

A MOD should probably combine this thread with the credibility watch and just call it Lowe, cause it's the same stuff


[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 2:11 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 2:07:43 PM