Quote :

"At least Warren kinda showed up more this debate. From what i saw, I’d rank performances: Bernie Warren Klobachar/Pete Biden Bloomberg "

We get that you LOOOOOOVE Bernie, but come on, dude...

2/20/2020 5:47:12 PM

Quote :

"I don't think this is true? He talked about the "capitalist" thing which she said but isn't really a policy based criticism and also said her supporters were only "more affluent""

Those aren't personal attacks. That's a word she uses to describe herself. And it's a fact that her supporters are more affluent (but Bernie himself never said this anyways)

Examples of personal attacks:
-Implying Bernie is sexist
-Implying Bernie is a liar with health issues because he won't release more medical records than anyone else in the race
-Attacking Bernie's supporters for things supporters of all candidates do, and holding him responsible for them while not keeping the same standards for herself

Quote :

"I'm not even sure why this would be controversial? You think a plurality should win? How low a percentage of delegates would you consider enough solidify a nominee? And of course Bernie said the same in 2016"

If we had RCV, no. But when the other option is party officials choosing the candidate, absolutely. Bernie said the same, but he wasn't running against a progressive.

Quote :

"not sure how it's possible to "accept" SPAC support, but yea i wish she had completely disowned them (can you legally do that? Would that seem fake?)"

https://twitter.com/alxthomp/status/1230579134968950784?s=21

Quote :

"I remember when Warren was polling far ahead of Sanders the criticisms of him staying in the the race despite polling much lower and having no path"

She led for two months, long before voting began. He's led for the entire rest of the primary. And he apparently did have a path because he's winning by a huge margin now. Voting has begun, and she's damaging our chances by remaining in the race.

She had an admirable run, and now she has the opportunity to cement a victory for progressives. Her supporters should push for that to happen.

Quote :

"We get that you LOOOOOOVE Bernie, but come on, dude..."

lol...that guy is a Buttiegig/Bloomberg supporter (or was before they tanked in the debate)

https://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=648215&page=72#16563265

[Edited on February 20, 2020 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2020 6:13:11 PM

Quote :

"Exactly right, it wasnt offensive because comparisons are pointing out similarities and not claiming things to be exactly equal."

I said it wasnt offensive, twice, I thought I spelled that out for you.

^I mean all your criticisms are fair as a Bernie supporter, but most of them come down to running a campaign. And TWO states have voted. I personally think super Tuesday should be her tipping point. See how this debate performance plays in Nevada and the polls and go from there.

Quote :

"And he apparently did have a path because he's winning by a huge margin now. "

Wait he is? By polling he is up about 10%, by popular vote its less and by delegates he is in 2nd place

[Edited on February 20, 2020 at 7:40 PM. Reason : E]

[Edited on February 20, 2020 at 7:41 PM. Reason : 538 gives him a 35% chance to win ]

2/20/2020 7:35:56 PM

Lol at "winning by a huge margin"

Apparently Trump is far from the only trader of "alternate facts"

2/20/2020 7:54:34 PM

And btw i think her strong hits on Bloomberg will help Sanders far more than any of her "attacks" hurt him.

2/20/2020 8:04:10 PM

[Edited on February 20, 2020 at 8:06 PM. Reason : double post]

2/20/2020 8:04:51 PM

Yes, I meant in the polls and in the projected outcomes moving forward. 11% is a huge margin when everyone else is below 20%. He has over 50% more support than the person in second place. And he's projected to win almost every state.

Quote :

"And btw i think her strong hits on Bloomberg will help Sanders far more than any of her "attacks" hurt him."

For sure

Quote :

"538 gives him a 35% chance to win"

35% to win without a second round. second place being "nobody" with 41%

Warren, by comparison, is at .1%

[Edited on February 20, 2020 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2020 8:05:30 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/sanders-obama-primary-challenge/606709/

2/20/2020 8:24:45 PM

Filed under "Trump is too incompetent to implement much of what he wants"

https://www.newsweek.com/judge-says-conditions-us-border-holding-cells-violated-constitution-monumental-ruling-1488281

2/20/2020 8:40:21 PM

Right on cue, CNN.com main article already has the democrats blaming Russia for thier loss after screwing their own voters.

2/21/2020 12:43:29 AM

Bernie leads in the 538 projection:
“These calculations prove that everyone should drop out and unify behind Bernie


5 months ago when Bernie was trailing slightly in the 538 projection:

Quote :

"daaave All American 552 Posts user info edit post ^^^ nate silver is such a bastard [Edited on October 1, 2019 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]"

2/21/2020 6:18:34 AM

I think it's been discussed that silver is good as a poll aggregator and bad as a pundit

2/21/2020 6:55:23 AM

Quote :

"Even PSL is supporting Bernie. Greens should wise up and do the same."

PSL's candidate is Gloria La Riva.

The Greens' response to the activists sending them the letter to withdraw I thought was great.

https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2020/01/green-party-trying-to-shut-us-up-with-an-open-letter/

Quote :

"The “Open Letter to the Green Party About 2020 Election Strategy“ marks the first 2020 salvo telling you and your fellow Greens to just shut up and submit to a fundamentally undemocratic system that was designed specifically to marginalize you. This steaming pile of cowardice and shoddy logic is especially disturbing because of co-signers like Noam Chomsky and Barbara Ehrenreich, who many of us otherwise consider to be heroes. Chomsky and Erenreich have made careers out of describing how the powerful subtly coerce us into limiting our worldviews, our choices —the potential of our very lives— frequently without us even knowing. And so it’s chilling that even they would lend their names to a piece blaming you and me for what is unquestionably the product of a RIDICULOUS elections system and decades of bi-partisan servitude to War and Wall Street: the election of Donald Trump. We need you to fight back today and we need you to give to the Green Party today, because this is just the beginning of their assault. The two-party cartel has marshalled their shills within Left spaces because they know that when Greens run in elections we break their stranglehold grip on what’s possible in this world and in our lives. The backers of smears like this have nothing to say about Ranked Choice Voting and Proportional Representation, full public financing of elections and other reforms that would not just benefit activists in “third parties” but every voter who would finally be free to cast their ballot for what they actually want — and actually be heard! They have not and will not lift a finger to democratize our elections and lift the systematic voter and candidate suppression that goes on in this country every day. They are content with elections that everyday people experience as an endless cycle of hopelessness, alienation and betrayal. Well, we are not. We fight to change that every day. The Green Party will fight in 2020 – we will fight every year and never stop because this is the fight for our lives. Help us fight back today with your contribution so that we have the resources necessary to field candidates and campaigns across the country for People and Planet Over Profit. We would love to hear your responses to that so-called “Open Letter,” so hit us up on Facebook or tag us on Twitter with how you’re cutting through the Two-Party Racket’s propaganda, and tell us about the favorite responses you’ve seen. And Keep The Faith! The Green Party of the United States P.S. we have to be prepared for scare-pieces like this to hit at least every month. You know what would help keep us strong, in the face of that? Your monthly contribution as a Green Party Sustainer. The propaganda out there adds up, but so does your support. When the many add up their strength against the few — we win!"

2/21/2020 7:43:03 AM

^
They’re supporting Sanders if he wins the primary, La Riva/Peltier if he doesn’t.

2/21/2020 9:35:18 AM

[Edited on February 21, 2020 at 9:35 AM. Reason : .]

2/21/2020 9:35:18 AM

Who's listed on the Party for Socialism & Liberation ballot lines in November if Sanders wins the primary, Sanders or La Riva?

They had 6 ballot lines under their own name in 2016: Colorado, Iowa, Louisiana, New Jersey, New Mexico, and Washington State. Almost 89% of La Riva's total votes came from getting the ballot line of the California Peace & Freedom Party. Remove that and PSL are no different than about a half dozen third parties that have socialist/socialism in their name. The Socialist Workers Party where the Socialist Workers Party name actually appeared on the ballot in fact did better than the PSL.

La Riva 2016 performance:

Quote :

"66101 votes - Calif. P&F ballot line 7689 votes - PSL ballot line 327 votes - Vt. Liberty Union ballot line 275 votes - write-ins counted from 6 different states"

2016 party ballot line performances:

1. anywhere a candidate was listed "Independent" is intentionally not counted
2. number in parentheses indicates how many states the party had ballot access
3. the fusion parties in New York are listed separately and their votes removed from the Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian vote counts
4. "U.S. Taxpayers" is the Michigan branch of the Constitution Party. "Mountain" is the West Virginia branch of the Green Party. They're listed separate because you can't automatically make the connection based on their names.

Quote :

"Democrat (50+DC) 65,677,181 Republican (50+DC) 62,692,433 Libertarian (47+DC) 4,080,699 Green (37+DC) 1,345,922 Conservative (1) 292,392 Independence (3) 193,252 Constitution (22) 163,091 Working Families (1) 140,043 Peace and Freedom (1) 66,101 Women's Equality (1) 36,292 Better for America (2) 19,080 U.S. Taxpayers (1) 16,139 Legal Marijuana Now (2) 13,537 American Delta (13) 12,716 Independent American (3) 9,116 Reform (1) 9,108 Socialist Workers (5) 9,067 Courage Character Service (1) 8,547 Mountain (1) 8,075 Socialism and Liberation (6) 7,689 Veterans (2) 6,909 Workers World (2) 3,519 American (1) 3,246 Natural Law (1) 2,209 Life Family Constitution (1) 1,581 It's Our Children (1) 1,048 Prohibition (2) 900 Independent People (1) 872 American Solidarity (1) 862 Nutrition (1) 751 Loyal Trustworthy Compassion (1) 749 America's (1) 710 Nonviolent Resistance/Pacifist (1) 382 Socialism Equality Anti-War (1) 370 Approval Voting (1) 337 Liberty Union (1) 327 Socialist (1) 271"

[Edited on February 21, 2020 at 11:29 AM. Reason : /]

2/21/2020 11:23:44 AM

It would still be La Riva on their ballot line, but they're encouraging their members to vote Sanders instead. Unprecedented for them, I think.

[Edited on February 21, 2020 at 11:29 AM. Reason : .]

2/21/2020 11:29:09 AM

Quote :

"It would still be La Riva on their ballot line, but they're encouraging their members to vote Sanders instead. Unprecedented for them, I think."

How Working Families of them.

2/21/2020 11:31:19 AM

Biden seems to be lying about marching and getting arrested in South Africa?

2/21/2020 6:54:27 PM

That would not surprise me.

2/21/2020 9:27:33 PM

It’s not a lie if you believe it. Dude probably has early onset dementia

2/22/2020 1:02:26 AM

Castro, Pete, and Biden all showed up to precinct sites and actively campaigned. This is electioneering. which is illegal. But yeah, Russia.

2/22/2020 4:49:13 PM

Candidates are allowed to visit caucus sites and speak...

2/22/2020 8:14:28 PM

what are NV laws, here it's just 50'

2/22/2020 9:24:02 PM

also what was terd's statement about no longer posting? was it 10% black?

2/22/2020 9:38:01 PM

Centrist Twitter is having a complete meltdown because of Bernie crushing Nevada. Better now than later... the sooner the better. This is going to be the most brutal General election ever.

2/22/2020 10:51:06 PM

Bernie won the moderate vote

https://twitter.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1231316660021342208?s=21

[Edited on February 22, 2020 at 11:28 PM. Reason : “moderate”]

2/22/2020 11:28:20 PM

If Warren doesn't win, maybe Jeff Ross will hire her to Roast people

2/23/2020 1:56:14 AM

Well, looks like I'll be holding my nose and voting for Sanders come November

2/23/2020 9:18:41 AM

Media and Nevada party really trying to rig the media narrative by calling the race at 4% and slow rolling the results so much.

[Edited on February 23, 2020 at 11:03 AM. Reason : People seem less mad this time I don't know ]

2/23/2020 11:03:14 AM

I’m trying to imagine what the sanders map looks like if it cedes the suburbs back to trump, but gains a lot of ground with poor white people and Latinos

Texas might go Democrat with sanders

https://www.270towin.com/maps/

If trump wins every state he won in 2016 but sanders just flips Texas, sanders wins.

[Edited on February 23, 2020 at 1:42 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2020 1:38:46 PM

I'm really trying to understand the logic behind some of these new takes all over the media today.
First take

Quote :

" -Bernie is the frontrunner but do we really want to choose a president that will lose downballot? -If Bernie wins, he will cause us to lose the house and/or senate. -We need a president who can also win the senate and house as well. "

I don't understand how you could make the argument. Do they think new Bernie voters will just leave house and senate choices blank?

Wouldn't the opposite be true? Would this be the case with candidates who aim to court republicans? If you have a candidate who gets elected because of republican swing voters, aren't said voters more likely to vote for republican candidates downballot resulting in a democrat president with republican house or senate?

Second take

Quote :

"The south carolina primary is going to tell us if bernie can actually win the election. SC has a larger percentage of black women over 65 and if he wants to be president, will have to prove that he can win that demographic"

In 2008, 20% of democrat voters were black. 63% were white so why are these pundits acting like winning black voters is all that matters in electability. Wouldn't it be deleterious to select a candidate who can ONLY win southern black voters? Why are they willing to throw out the first 3 competitions because SC is disproportionately black? How does this attitude make white people in the actual swing states feel?

Do they think SC (or any deep south state) is up for grabs? Do they think these old black church women would stay home or vote for trump over bernie? Why do they want to project the views of older blacks in the bible belt onto all blacks throughout the country? Why focus so much on a demographic that is small and in places unlikely to affect the outcome of the election either way?

I know I'm biased and inclined to think its just nitpicking whatever area they think Bernie might be weak so I figured, if there was any real logic at all behind these new media takes, someone on here could lay it out.

[Edited on February 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM. Reason : this is the only place i can go where people still trust the media]

2/23/2020 8:09:41 PM

Quote :

"Well, looks like I'll be holding my nose and voting for Sanders come November"

Welcome to every election for lefties

2/23/2020 10:37:51 PM

Quote :

"If trump wins every state he won in 2016 but sanders just flips Texas, sanders wins"

I think he'll have a better chance flipping Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. But I'd gladly take Texas too...just don't think it will happen unless Cruz grows a spine and stands up against Trump.

2/24/2020 1:50:10 AM

Quote :

"If trump wins every state he won in 2016 but sanders just flips Texas, sanders wins."

Texas is a fantasy that Democrats should stop clinging to. It wasn't going to happen last time and it's not going to happen this time and it's extra not going to happen with Bernie Sanders.

Texas has lots of big-time 'burb land, and those poor whites aren't going to vote for a Socialist for anything. Just let it go.

You want a state to focus on? I hate to break it to you, but it's the same state it's always been in our lifetimes. Fucking Florida. Trump can sweep the other battleground states and he still loses without the land of the meth gator.

---

I think I'm coming around on Sanders. I don't love several of his policies, but I don't think they'd be the ruin of the nation or my paycheck or anything. (I also don't think he's going to get many of them through, not with a Republican Senate.) But none of the other candidates can drum up the same enthusiastic support, and increasingly I think that this election is going to have to be a battle of rallies as much as anything else.

2/24/2020 7:55:27 AM

Florida is going to be hard for ANY Dem to win back and impossible for Sanders (see 60 minutes).

How does Bernie poll in Ohio? Seems to be a fairly large union and white working class that went Obama -> Trump. I know most people simply right it off but they have a fairly popular Dem Senator and it seems to be right up Sanders’ alley.

Quote :

" this is the only place i can go where people still trust the media"

“The media” isn’t a monolith and no one on here gives a single flying fuck what pundits like Don Lemon say, despite whatever strawman you continuously create to argue against.

[Edited on February 24, 2020 at 9:00 AM. Reason : X]

2/24/2020 8:58:18 AM

Quote :

"Florida is going to be hard for ANY Dem to win back and impossible for Sanders (see 60 minutes)."

I mean, it's been a swing state for the past several elections. This is what people talk about when they question his electability. Florida is now out. He aint winning Texas, so you can stop that nonsense.

2/24/2020 9:13:39 AM

We'll know a lot more about Florida in a month. But if Bernie does as well with latinos and the tribe as some would suggest, then I would suspect Florida to still be for grabs.

I'm not excited about Bernie. Again, I'm a Pete guy, which is probably evident given that I eat a turkey sandwich every day for lunch, and am not a fan of Bernie's class warfare rhetoric. I do believe there are measures by which we can improve the lives of working class people, sustain social programs, improve health care, and protect our climate without vilifying groups of people.

Bernie speaks about all billionaires as a monolith, just as Trump did Mexicans in his campaign. It may be good for gathering votes, but it doesn't do anything to move us forward as a nation.

I'll vote for Bernie no matter what, but I'm more liberal than other people who I know who also consistently vote toward the left. I can definitely see those people, and perhaps even myself, voting for Bernie at the top of the ticket but voting out of the party elsewhere to keep balance. It's unlikely in my case, but not impossible. Probably very likely in the case of others.

I'm very curious what sort of person Bernie would choose for his running mate. Since Bernie comes off as an ideological purist, I can't imagine he'd choose someone more moderate for this running mate. Given Bernie's age, I imagine this will be even more of a topic this cycle than others.

2/24/2020 9:25:19 AM

sanders doing the best with moderates and independents should end the "these people won't vote for a socialist" tropes

2/24/2020 10:21:57 AM

^^One of the major reasons to get Trump out is SCOTUS and lower courts. I can't imagine voting democrat for president then trying to ensure they won't be able to seat a justice and have lowered courts constantly blocked.

2/24/2020 10:34:41 AM

I'm not certain if that is a non-sequitur or is in response to my post.

In case it is a response, or even if it isn't but others think it is, I'm not suggesting people won't vote for a socialist.

I'm saying there will be many moderates and even independents who will vote for him, even if they aren't excited about it, because they believe he'll have enough traction to win. I'm also saying these same people will be will not vote same ticket, because they'll want to gut check some of Bernie's policies.

2/24/2020 10:41:38 AM

Quote :

"Bernie speaks about all billionaires as a monolith, just as Trump did Mexicans in his campaign. It may be good for gathering votes, but it doesn't do anything to move us forward as a nation. "

This is a wildly offensive comparison.

Quote :

" I'm also saying these same people will be will not vote same ticket, because they'll want to gut check some of Bernie's policies."

Approx. 15 people will do this. Luckily, Bernie is going to inspire record turnout and we'll be able to override their votes and elect more Dems.

[Edited on February 24, 2020 at 10:45 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2020 10:45:02 AM

^^post was responding to HCH and grumpy

in regards to your post though I do wonder how many of the people who have criticized sanders for "not being a real democrat" will also vote out of party down ballot if he gets the nomination

i can't get my head around someone wanting to not vote for democrats for congress and other positions, this just makes no sense and can only be made by someone in a position of privilege who maybe hasn't watched the news in the last 20+ years?

also, you don't need republicans in congress to be a check on sanders, democrats in congress will be a check on sanders


[Edited on February 24, 2020 at 10:45 AM. Reason : won't someone please stand up and protect the innocent billionaires!]

2/24/2020 10:45:04 AM

Quote :

"democrats in congress will be a check on sanders"

Yep. In order to a lot of Bernie's agenda passed, we'll have to beat Republicans and primary conservative Democrats.

[Edited on February 24, 2020 at 10:51 AM. Reason : or bully pulpit them into compliance]

2/24/2020 10:50:26 AM

Quote :

" democrats for congress and other positions, this just makes no sense and can only be made by someone in a position of privilege who maybe hasn't watched the news in the last 20+ years?"

Didn't realize Republicans have been the majority party in congress for the past 20 years.

2/24/2020 11:00:06 AM

well i never said they were

2/24/2020 11:00:48 AM

Quote :

" This is a wildly offensive comparison."

Lol, imagine thinking that saying rich people should pay higher taxes is the same as calling most Mexicans racist and criminals. The never-Trump freakout over Sanders is full of false-equivalence horseshit.

Bari Weiss thinks Trump will win the Jewish vote if Bernie is the nominee. They are totally broken people.

2/24/2020 11:08:29 AM

Quote :

"This is a wildly offensive comparison."

Quote :

"imagine thinking that saying rich people should pay higher taxes is the same as calling most Mexicans racist and criminals."

It may be offensive, but that doesn't make it any less true. I agree the words are not as vile and am not saying the comments are entirely equivalent, but they are as just as intentionally vilifying and divisive for the sake of drawing votes.

Quote :

"Approx. 15 people will do this. Luckily, Bernie is going to inspire record turnout and we'll be able to override their votes and elect more Dems."

Quote :

"i can't get my head around someone wanting to not vote for democrats for congress and other positions, this just makes no sense and can only be made by someone in a position of privilege who maybe hasn't watched the news in the last 20+ years?"

Independents and moderate democrats often vote across party lines with regularity. A salient example would be how Pat McCrory lost, while Trump won. People on the periphery vote across lines a lot.

@dtownral I would be interested in hearing what you describe as position of privilege. While I'd state that some left leaning individuals may want to vote across lines because they believe in political balance or because they can find commonality with socially liberal individuals who place an R by their name, that does not necessarily refute the claim about privilege since privilege can frame a person's point of view.

So what do you define as privilege? And what about poor individuals who vote republican? If you're going to lean on their white privilege, then why are there white democrats at all since they, too, would harbor that privilege? Why are their black people who grew up poor and then later vote republican? If it is privilege that is driving political philosophy, then is everyone on the right systematically more privileged than those on the left, and only those on the far left are without privilege or were somehow able to shake it?

If privilege is the only way you can imagine those sort of positions, then I'd like to hear more on the above. One reason I ask is that I did not grow up wealthy, but still in better condition than most. My parents both grew up dirt poor minorities in NC, eventually going to college and getting jobs as a teacher and a process tech in a textile plant. They tend to hold similar political beliefs as myself. I could argue I had privilege, when compared to the whole, but it'd be a stretch to say they did.

[Edited on February 24, 2020 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2020 11:22:42 AM

yep, looks like i was spot on

2/24/2020 11:29:39 AM

Quote :

"It may be offensive, but that doesn't make it any less true. I agree the words are not as vile and am not saying the comments are entirely equivalent, but they are as just as intentionally vilifying and divisive for the sake of drawing votes. "

It's not just for drawing votes. It's reflected in his policy. Billionaires shouldn't exist and we're going to chip away at their stolen wealth until they don't.

2/24/2020 11:56:15 AM