Are we pretty much settled on UT as a defensible position? I mean, it sounds good, my only question is whether or not the stairwells lock. Depending on how coordinated these zombies are, they might be able to break a window on the first floor and make their way into the stairwell, which would be problematic.

On another note, I'm concerned about the presence of a group of people, particularly ten males, confined in close quarters for several months, presumably in uncomfortable conditions and surrounded by readily accessible weapons. It might be a good idea to have a psychologist in your group, to help prevent people from cracking up or at least recognizing when people are going to and taking appropriate precautions. Might also be useful for screening any potential applicants who show up once the invasion starts. We have enough problems with the zombies. We don't need to be killing each other.

Now, since space is limited, you'll want your psychologist to have other useful skills as well. Weapons experience would be a plus here. I figure a lot of people here have firearms experience, which is good, but ultimatley ammo considerations are going to make melee weapons a must. I'd be sure to take along people with actual weapon experience (ie fencing, ken-jitsu, etc) rather than people who can just swing a bat. More experienced fighters are going to be more combat effective, less likely to get themselves killed in a fight (trained to defend themselves, not just hit the other guy) and probably have sound tactical thinking.

4/18/2005 3:02:53 PM

horses galloping can outrun a man sprinting, but unfortunately the area is too foresty and hill to get a good gallop

also they can't sustain that speed indefinitely - a zombie sprinter will eventually catch it since it won't stop until it's muscles break down

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:05 PM. Reason : you can eat them though]

4/18/2005 3:05:34 PM

The illness thing goes for people who constantly need pills for other medication too. Any type of disorder that would cause ANY kind of burden wouldn't be allowed. This includes being fat. Fat people can't run and will attract more zombies.

If you wear contact lenses, unless you are able to grab your glasses on the way out or if your vision is good enough without them, you probably aren't gonna make it. Odds are that there is lots of contact solution in UT, but if you lose a single lens you are fucked.

Lucky for me I have a strong immune system (no known genetic disorders or allergies) and I don't wear corrective lenses.


And the reason I said Ramen earlier was mainly because it is extremely light and very easy to store. But yeah, canned food would definitely be best.

4/18/2005 3:07:14 PM

i read it the first time

4/18/2005 3:09:22 PM

Quote :

"I'd be sure to take along people with actual weapon experience (ie fencing, ken-jitsu, etc) rather than people who can just swing a bat. More experienced fighters are going to be more combat effective, less likely to get themselves killed in a fight (trained to defend themselves, not just hit the other guy) and probably have sound tactical thinking. "

*raises hand*

But also realize that most conventional forms of martial arts and melee training is designed to exploit weak points and cause pain throughout the entire human body. We're facing an entity that is both immune to pain, period, as well as has a relatively small viable target. Its head. While I agree that training/experience in melee combat will be advantageous, its degree of effectiveness will be marginal.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 3:13:00 PM

Well the thing with actual combat training is that in most cases, you aren't trained to kill. In unarmed combat, you would have to punch or kick the zombie pretty hard in the head to do enough damage to the brain to kill it. Odds are there will be too many zombies around to do that. If you break their arm or leg, it won't phase them. Even if you had a sword or something, you would have to decapitate them (they could still bite you if you walked next to their head) or just slice them in the head.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 3:17:30 PM

major joints and the head are the only things worth attacking

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:19 PM. Reason : breaking their neck would be decently effective too, so long as you sever the spinal cord]

4/18/2005 3:17:51 PM

^^I think that was my point.

But i also have a big fucking sword (fully battle ready, forged and tempered like a true medival sword), so you bet your ass ill be using that.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 3:19:14 PM

Yeah, I mentioned the specific waepon forms I did because they emphasize lethal attacks. Most sword forms aren't really about breaking limbs (except broadsword stuff, but nobody really studies that). Now, someone with good fencing experience, for example, would be accurate enough to sever the spinal cord or brainstem with a piercing weapon or, assuming they had studies sabre fencing, to decapitate or cleave a skull with a slashing weapon. Personally, I can do both. And I have my own swords. Plus, back to the other point of my first post, I'm a psychologist with a clinical and forensic background.

4/18/2005 3:31:40 PM

Honestly, people who know how to engage in combat well would be a plus, but not a necessity. In order to survive, we would be better off having people who know how to think creatively and know how to use what is available to accomplish things they weren't designed to do. In our scenerio, the majority of our day to day activities are going to be building barriers, etc. Once the zombies have breached our physical defenses, no matter how much combat training someone has, they will be quickly become severely outnumbered.

our main weapon is time. deny the enemy brains, and allow them to starve.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:32 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 3:31:45 PM

well for the fat people. assuming you can get them into the building............you really want your broodmares to have some meat on them..............for that whole repopulating thing..... hell at least fat people can live off their fat longer than you scrawny ass fuckers.............

4/18/2005 3:36:49 PM

exactly. i don't think that morbidly obese people would be good to have, but to have some stored energy on your body would definitely be a good thing if we are in it for the long haul.

4/18/2005 3:43:19 PM

Personally, I'd feel better if there was a psych guy in the group. Presumably the high stress would lead to inevitable fighting and prolonged hostility. Having someone who's observant enough to recognize the internal state of things would be really useful in sutaining the the group during the siege.

I also think there will be problems among the girls getting used to the non-monogamus situation (despite our best efforts--but we've been used to monogamy for many generations and old habits might be tough to break), and having someone on hand offering counseling and mediation would be good. Not just a poeple person, but someone trained to do so.

I also liked the point about having a heads-up on people who might be getting ready to crack. What if one of us gets all fatalistic and decides it's better we join the zombies? We need to keep an eye out for that. I'm saying we should go all Big Brother, but there are signals not all of us may catch.

And I'd hit epeiste.

4/18/2005 3:44:47 PM

i bet i could last two weeks without eating

also, it'd be dumb to impregnate the broads right off the bat, then you have to haul around their pregnant asses all over and they'd be essentially useless

it's best to wait till after the crisis is over and keep them able to move around and defend themselves

fucking should only be used as a stress reliever until shit calms down

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 3:48 PM. Reason : more]

4/18/2005 3:45:20 PM

Quote :

"fucking should only be used as a stress reliever until shit calms down"

Theres going to be a lot of fucking going on then.

But anyway, sure. Im in.

4/18/2005 4:04:17 PM

Hey, I'm thinking ahead. Presumably we'll be the only people around for any conceiveable distance, so it'll still just be us to repopulate. And is sex really safe to use as a stress reliever? You've got to consider birth control options, whether it be condoms or pills.

I say no outright sex, just to be safe. Oral sex is your best bet as long as no one has any STDs. Untreated chlamydia sterilizes females and likewise severe UTIs can develop into deadly infections. A good way to avoid these types of infection is to aviod unprotected vaginal penetration.
I hate to burst bubbles, but we aren't gonna be able to treat stuff like that.

Anway, the point is:

Oral sex=good
Unprotected vaginal sex=bad until it's repopulation time.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:10 PM. Reason : sorry 'bout that]

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2005 4:08:13 PM

Quote :

"I say no outright sex, just to be safe. "

YOU JUST BOUGHT YOURSELF AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE UNDEAD

4/18/2005 4:19:11 PM

I'm just being practical. If we're in UT, I assume there will be a supply of condoms pillaged from various rooms, so we're okay as long as there is enough to go around. I'm saying that in a pinch, getting head coupld also be a good stress reliever--unless you hate getting head or something.

4/18/2005 4:25:49 PM

Psychology is bunk. We are all reasonably intelligent people; we can keep an eye on each other as well as any doctor can. And remember, a shrink is as likely to go batshit as any of us.

--

The UT stairwell is as defensible as any, we'll probably just throw heavy pieces of furniture down to block the doors on the first couple of floors (after we've raided them, of course).

--

Combat training seems largely unecessary, as all conventional forms heretofore are designed for situations very, very different from a zombie invasion. The specifics have all been covered, but just in general, they aren't crowd control techniques -- and we are talking about dealing with crowds. Further, you don't want to do anything that involves a part of your body hitting a zombie -- you're liable to start bleeding somewhere, and then when you make contact with a zombie, you're fucked. Also, you're either exposed to bites or so heavily armored that you can barely move anyway.

--

I had given some thought to the sex thing. Clearly you don't want everyone pregnant right off the bat, but frankly I think we should leave decisions regarding specific kinds of sex to the individual groups (I suppose we can't call them "couples" anymore). The only caveat would be that all precautions must be taken to avoid pregnancy until the zombies are dealt with. So if you're gonna fuck, wrap it up tight, and pop your pills (God knows rubbers and bc pills shouldn't be in short supply in fucking UT).

4/18/2005 4:26:54 PM

head is not a good enough substitute for actual sex. some guys might disagree.

4/18/2005 4:26:55 PM

Quote :

"Psychology is bunk. We are all reasonably intelligent people; we can keep an eye on each other as well as any doctor can. And remember, a shrink is as likely to go batshit as any of us."

i'd have to agree. besides, if any psychologist tried to tell me how to act, his ass might get thrown out as zombie fodder.

4/18/2005 4:28:58 PM

Quote :

"The only caveat would be that all precautions must be taken to avoid pregnancy until the zombies are dealt with"

...and once we've begun to rebuild society. Gotta have somewhere to put the kids.

^And are you just gonna throw out anyone who disagrees with you?

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ?]

4/18/2005 4:31:02 PM

Just leave it up to the couples. If you can't settle for head, go on and do what you gotta do, as long as it's mutually agreed.

Now, as we discussed earlier, nobody can force themselves on anyone else -- that'll fuck up the whole dynamic. At the same time, everyone should be encouraged to meet everybody's needs -- witholding sex without a damn good reason would also fuck up the dynamic.

Also, territoriality is something we're gonna have to face. Look, I know that it's two girls to a guy, so we're straying from conventional norms...but "adultery" as it were has to be outright prohibited. If one guy starts fucking another guy's woman, the dynamic is, once again, fucked up.

4/18/2005 4:31:05 PM

^^I don't think that'll be a big issue. I doubt lots of stuff will get outright destroyed. In fact, the period after the zombies (and the cleanup of their corpses) will be a good time. Infinite free stuff, basically. Property will be largely irrelevant for a loooong time.

Remember also that there's a difference between disagreeing with someone and telling them how to act. Although, that said, we're going to need some sort of leadership hierarchy...

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:36 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 4:32:42 PM

^^Hrm... you'll aknowledge terriroriality issues, but you don't see the value of psychology...

I'm just saying, with the kind of dynamic you're looking at, you're all probably gonna kill each other before the zombies get the chance. And if you're throwing anyone who tells you what to do to the zombies, there's gonna be some internal conflict.

4/18/2005 4:38:22 PM

The Psychologist is gonna be stuck in the same dynamic as the rest of us, meaning he's just as likely to go batty as anybody.

I don't think internal conflict is going to be as big of a deal as you're making it out to be, as long as we have the common threat of the zombies to unite against. After the zombies, if things fall apart, we can all get our own little corner of Raleigh and not have to deal with each other.

Countless groups of people have survived tough situations without the help of worthless psychologists. We can manage the same.

It will also help when we establish the leadership/decision-making process.

4/18/2005 4:46:03 PM

i got dibs on Emperor of the Earth

4/18/2005 4:49:34 PM

"Dibs" seems to be somewhat lacking as an election process...

4/18/2005 4:52:38 PM

^^ that all depends on whos the first to figure out how to use the nukes after all the shit is over.

4/18/2005 4:53:11 PM

This is all getting very complicated

4/18/2005 4:54:11 PM

the president will more than likely survive, and so will the football and the silos

so he'll control them

4/18/2005 4:55:10 PM

^^For a plan thats entirely contingent on an actual zombie invasion, I agree

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 4:55:44 PM

^^ ha true, i guess youll have to settle for emperor of Raleigh.

4/18/2005 5:00:56 PM

Are any of you going home for the summer? It might be useful to identify people who will be in the same areas in case the attack comes while we aren't in Raliegh, possibly even set up some kind of emergency communication network ahead of time.

4/18/2005 5:04:32 PM

my plan is to have three groups of people: one to fortify wherever the hell we stay, one to collect supplies, and one to kill as many zombies as they can until the other tow groups are done

i figure the more zombies you kill early on, the slower they will spread, and the more time you'll have to ready yourself

i'm also debating whether i'm up to the task of shooting normal people in the head that aren't in my groups in order to prevent dealing with them later on

4/18/2005 5:07:51 PM

While it could be seen as practical, it simply isn't ethical. Not that clearing out the UT residents is ethical, but open season on non-zombified people? It's murder. And if the zombie virus is some kind of reanimation upon death it could be problematic. We should know more about what kind of zombies we have first, which means we need to wait until the attack.

4/18/2005 5:12:37 PM

notice i said shooting people in the head, thereby eliminating the worry

and all is fair in love and war

4/18/2005 5:13:41 PM

I'm not sure shooting other people in the head would do us any good, but of course all that depepnds on the situation, and we're not exactly sure what the situation will look like. But if we need to shoot people in the head, I'll definitely be up for it.

4/18/2005 5:15:21 PM

^Yeah, its not really practical either though. I mean, we're assuming hordes of zombies, so taking out a couple in advance isn't really gonna do much good. Ultimately, taking out any zombie who isn't a direct threat will just be a waste of ammo. Taking out another human who at worst will add one to the zombie count and at best might actually take out a few zombies himself is worse than useless, it's detrimental.

4/18/2005 5:17:29 PM

Quote :

"Snewf definitely does not get a place in the survivor group. He lacks vision, and he's too much of a pessimist. We will repopulate the Earth, we will survive, we can outlast the zombies. Mark my words, three months, tops. Then they'll waste away and we can set to rebuilding civilization."

buddy, I don't want to be in your suicide group

all the shit you're dreaming about is nothing if you don't survive
survival is number one... and there WILL be deaths - lots
and you will have to kill some of your friends

4/18/2005 5:26:58 PM

Quote :

"i'm also debating whether i'm up to the task of shooting normal people in the head that aren't in my groups in order to prevent dealing with them later on"

This does pose a major problem. As many people as possible will be needed for repopulation, especially females. If an outside survivor is found or somehow manages to make their way to a stronghold after the initial invasion, their entire body will need to be checked for ANY wounds. If they have anything resembling a bite at all, they are a risk and must be forced to leave. This person would obviously become very spiteful at an idea and may try to sabotage the efforts of the rest of the survivors, a la "if I can't live, nobody can." As immoral as it sounds, these people may have to be killed on the spot if any wounds are found due to the risk it would cause to the rest of the group either by them becoming a zombie or a psycho.

4/18/2005 5:42:09 PM

you stupid bastard

stop worrying about "repopulation"

you're going to have the undead trying to kill you for decades

many other people you meet will want to kill you for your equipment and supplies
in fact, living people may be a bigger threat

don't fool yourself into thinking that the living will "unite"

4/18/2005 5:44:31 PM

^has obviously never seen 28 days.

4/18/2005 5:47:49 PM

I've seen it enough to know it wasn't about motherfucking zombies

jackass

4/18/2005 5:49:21 PM

^Decades? The bodies are dead. Even if they ARE able to live without any nutritional intake from human flesh, they WILL start to rot. Flies will lay eggs in them and maggots will eat them from the inside out. Other insects and parasites will do the same. The most that would remain would be bones. True, it would take a long time, but after a few years max, the zombies will either be dead or too decomposed to be a major problem.

4/18/2005 5:49:33 PM

nah it will drag out based on the climate

they'll last longer in extremely dry or cold climates

also, not all of them turned at the same time... so it would stagger itself out for a long time

and you might run into them AGAIN later accidentally and have to do it all over

4/18/2005 5:51:17 PM

They may not necessarily last longer in dry or cold climates. Without a source of internal body heat, their joints will become extremely brittle. In dry spells, what's left of their water will disappear, making movement even more difficult for them. In the summer months, they would get eaten by all sorts of stuff.

But I did just think of a very large problem: mosquitos. These guys could spread the infection faster than the zombies would. Usually they are only attracted to heat and warm bodies, but if a mosquito did bite a zombie, then a regular person, the person would get infected too.

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 5:57 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2005 5:57:17 PM

where's the nearest oil rig off our coast?

4/18/2005 6:00:21 PM

I think the only reason I would possibly survive is because I'm quick and smart enough that I won't drive everyone nuts. No one wants to keep trifflin' hos around just because we need to repopulate.

4/18/2005 6:50:19 PM

dibs on tartsquid

i got my two

[Edited on April 18, 2005 at 6:59 PM. Reason : i'm willing to take on more though]

4/18/2005 6:59:10 PM