oh not saying it is. just saying its worth keeping an eye on

8/7/2017 3:17:55 PM

Quote :

"there are plenty of people who russia has not had an issue with killing, so i could believe that they killed seth rich"

That's not what they are saying I don't think. At least it wasn't. I thought it was the DNC/Clinton team killed him and then paid off D.C. police and his family.

That is something Louise Mensch said though

8/7/2017 3:23:00 PM

Seth Rich should have his own thread.

8/7/2017 3:24:32 PM

^^
not impossible, but still just noise with no proof

8/7/2017 3:25:40 PM

I find it highly suspicious that Wikileaks, the self-proclaimed protector of all things whistle-blower, felt the need to tweet out an audio recording of a would be whistle blower. Even if Hersh is (somewhat) protected because he's a journalist, wiki just blew his cover to interact with whistleblowers or continue digging on this (if he even was). It seems outrageously reckless given how big and top secret this Seth Rich thing is supposed to be and given how easily Reality Winner was fucked over by Greenwald.

8/7/2017 3:32:37 PM

Why are you so skeptical of Wikileaks, but not of US intelligence, who has a proven history of disinformation campaigns? (Including against Wikileaks, btw)

I know some of you think they are colluding with the Trump campaign or Russia, but I've been following for a long time and I really don't see it.

8/7/2017 3:59:18 PM

Quote :

"That's not what they are saying I don't think. At least it wasn't. I thought it was the DNC/Clinton team killed him and then paid off D.C. police and his family. That is something Louise Mensch said though "

it definitely wasn't, i'm just saying that the DNC/Clinton killed Rich stuff is based on nonsense, but if hersh's source is correct and there was more evidence that comes to light i could believe that russia killed someone. until then though, the seth rich story as laid out by fox news is nonsense.

8/7/2017 4:16:57 PM

Quote :

"Why are you so skeptical of Wikileaks"

because they have an incredibly obvious agenda, they aren't even trying to hide it

it's an understandable agenda (i mean they tried to fabricate rape charges), but it's an obvious agenda nonetheless

8/7/2017 4:18:39 PM

I am skeptical of US intelligence.

My skepticism of Wikileaks comes from their movement away from just curating leaks to actively building narratives, just browse Assange's twitter feed. That and the fact I'm slightly more familiar with psy-op techniques now than I was just a few years ago.

8/7/2017 4:21:29 PM

There's definitely a grudge, but I don't think that's the only reason his focus is where it is. Wikileaks showcases how powerful people interact with other powerful people and benefit one another. It's so ludicrous that he's being painted as a Trump supporter--it's missing the point entirely.

He's focused on the Russia story because he sees it as what it is - power structures at play, and what seems to be collusion between US intelligence and media organizations. That's a story worth talking about.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/25/seymour-hersh-blasts-media-for-uncritically-promoting-russian-hacking-story/

Quote :

"Hersh denounced news organizations as “crazy town” for their uncritical promotion of the pronouncements of the director of national intelligence and the CIA, given their track records of lying and misleading the public. “The way they behaved on the Russia stuff was outrageous,” Hersh said when I sat down with him at his home in Washington, D.C., two days after Trump was inaugurated. “They were just so willing to believe stuff. And when the heads of intelligence give them that summary of the allegations, instead of attacking the CIA for doing that, which is what I would have done,” they reported it as fact. Hersh said most news organizations missed an important component of the story: “the extent to which the White House was going and permitting the agency to go public with the assessment.”"

[Edited on August 7, 2017 at 5:39 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2017 5:36:43 PM

Quote :

"There's definitely a grudge, but I don't think that's the only reason his focus is where it is. Wikileaks showcases how powerful people interact with other powerful people and benefit one another. It's so ludicrous that he's being painted as a Trump supporter--it's missing the point entirely. He's focused on the Russia story because he sees it as what it is - power structures at play, and what seems to be collusion between US intelligence and media organizations. That's a story worth talking about. "

This isn't good enough to explain Wikileaks/Assange's twitter feed. His false attacks on Mueller are such a blatant tell. Those tweets can only be explained as a need to further a very specific narrative.

You have to consider that Wikileaks is now a player in the "power structure." Or even an arm of an existing player. Not enough power to sway the election, but do they influence? Yes.

8/7/2017 6:59:07 PM

What false attacks on Mueller are you talking about?

8/7/2017 7:15:40 PM

Check out this article from 2005 about Sy Hersh:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11719/

Quote :

"Sy Hersh Says It’s Okay to Lie (Just Not in Print)"

Ouch.


^
https://thedailybanter.com/2017/07/wikilies-for-the-easily-misled/

8/7/2017 7:23:25 PM

Did you even read that article? All it says is he changes insignificant details in his speeches and exaggerates for effect. This in no way discredits his comments about Seth Rich.

It's honestly amazing that you'd smear someone like Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize winner with a decades long career writing about war crimes, because he said something that goes against the current neolib narrative.

And I couldn't tell you why Wikileaks tweeted the uranium thing, but it definitely doesn't imply they were trying to take anything out of context. They linked to the entire cable. They also posted a TYT video about Mueller's involvement in pushing for war in Iraq, and an article about Mueller attempting to frame Assange/Wikileaks for computer crimes.

Mueller is the fucking enemy, for christ's sake. He lied to get us into Iraq and threatened to resign if he couldn't spy on US citizens without a warrant. But now he's the hero of all Liberals because Trump sux!

[Edited on August 7, 2017 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2017 8:22:35 PM

Quote :

"This in no way discredits his comments about Seth Rich."

It begs the question: why didn't Hersh break the story himself? He's the one with direct hearsay of a top official that's seen the evidence. He seems confident on the audio. This story would be even bigger than any story he'd broken before, and more Pulitzers.

You have to wonder if the reason he calls it gossip now is because this is just another exaggerated story.



The only reason that Mueller is a hero to Liberals is because he seems to be taking this investigation seriously, which means he and his team are the only functioning check/balance to Trump's corruption. Perhaps a broader perspective would be our justice system holding one of the richest, most powerful men in our country accountable to the law.

8/7/2017 9:17:35 PM

Quote :

"Perhaps a broader perspective would be our justice system holding one of the richest, most powerful men in our country accountable to the law."

you can't seriously believe that's what this is about, especially from mueller's perspective

8/7/2017 9:32:54 PM

It doesn't matter to me Mueller's perspective so long as he does his job and operates within the law. The POTUS being investigated for alleged crimes despite so many in typical oversight roles failing to step up to the plate would actually be a pretty comforting scenario.

8/7/2017 10:44:15 PM

I'm open minded to this but reading through Hersh's history/career, it seems like he just becomes more and more of a conspiracy theorist as opposed to an investigative reporter.

8/7/2017 10:58:17 PM

Why do you say that?

Quote :

"It doesn't matter to me Mueller's perspective so long as he does his job and operates within the law. The POTUS being investigated for alleged crimes despite so many in typical oversight roles failing to step up to the plate would actually be a pretty comforting scenario."

I think that's a pretty shallow view. Mueller is only involved because Trump is a threat to existing power structures. That, or he's been offered some reward, which is similar enough.

But if it would make you feel better to have the biggest scapegoat on the planet in jail, good luck I guess.

[Edited on August 7, 2017 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2017 11:09:25 PM

you sure that's the only reason Mueller is involved?

8/8/2017 1:00:38 AM

Scapegoat? If you aren't operating under the assumption that Trump is guilty AF, then we really are on very different pages.

8/8/2017 5:56:23 AM

Wow are we down a rabbit hole now.

Quote :

"Mueller is only involved because Trump is a threat to existing power structures."

Is this... a thing? Trump is pretty basic Washington at this point except for having the worst part of the ideological spectrum involved. Lots of nepotism, Goldman Sachs and quid pro quo. Pretty standard DC stuff.

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM. Reason : More self enrichment than we've ever see though. Bizarre takes to me in here but each his own.]

8/8/2017 7:34:25 AM

Quote :

"Mueller is only involved because Trump is a threat to existing power structures. That, or he's been offered some reward, which is similar enough. "

lol, adultswim is earl level retarded

8/8/2017 9:52:58 AM

Oh hey, that thing Obama warned us would happen if we pulled out of TPP? It's happening.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/07/trump-tpp-deal-withdrawal-trade-effects-215459

Quote :

"A POLITICO analysis found that the 11 other TPP countries are now involved in a whopping 27 separate trade negotiations with each other, other major trading powers in the region like China and massive blocs like the EU. Those efforts range from exploratory conversations to deals already signed and awaiting ratification. Seven of the most significant deals for U.S. farmers were either launched or concluded in the five months since the United States withdrew from the TPP."

Quote :

"As China, which was never a part of the TPP, senses blood in the water, it is moving quickly to assert itself, rather than the United States, as the region’s trade arbiter. China is aiming to close talks by the end of this year on its behemoth Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership—a trade agreement involving 15 other Asia-Pacific countries. "

I blame Bernie for this as much as Trump. Turning the left against free trade deals was one of the most damaging things any US politician has ever done. At least we stuck it those hurr durr corporations though!!

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 9:58 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 9:58:00 AM

^^
mmk. you guys are seriously deluded.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/

Quote :

"Nonetheless, Trump, as a matter of rhetoric, repeatedly affirmed policy positions that were directly contrary to long-standing bipartisan orthodoxy, and his policy and personal instability only compounded elites’ fears that he could not be relied upon to safeguard their lucrative, power-vesting agenda. In so many ways — due to his campaign positions, his outsider status, his unstable personality, his witting and unwitting unmasking of the truth of U.S. hegemony, the embarrassment he causes in Western capitals, his reckless unpredictability — Trump posed a threat to their power centers. It is often claimed that this trans-partisan, elite coalition assembled against Trump because they are simply American patriots horrified by the threat he poses to America’s noble traditions and institutions. I guess if you want to believe that the CIA, the GOP consulting class, and assorted D.C. imperialists, along with Bush-era neocons like Bill Kristol and David Frum, woke up one day and developed some sort of earnest, patriotic conscience about democracy, ethics, constitutional limits, and basic decency, you’re free to believe that. It makes for a nice, moving story: a film from the “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” genre. But at the very least, Trump’s campaign assaults on their most sacred pieties was, and remains, a major factor in their seething contempt for him."

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 9:58:49 AM

okay earl

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 10:05 AM. Reason : but Greenwald said so! waaah!]

8/8/2017 10:05:36 AM

Quote :

"as a matter of rhetoric"

Rhetoric during the campaign. Yes.

In practice he's tried to ban Muslims, repeal Obamacare, whitewash climate change, increased drone use, used the Heritage Foundation for all his court appointees and is moving on to tax cuts for the rich. Pretty standard conservative establishment stuff..

Quote :

"due to his campaign positions, his outsider status, his unstable personality, his witting and unwitting unmasking of the truth of U.S. hegemony, the embarrassment he causes in Western capitals, his reckless unpredictability — Trump posed a threat to their power centers."

Aside from his outsider status and unmasking hegemony truth all of these things pose a threat to all of us!

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 10:14 AM. Reason : Edit to say Obamacare is flawed but his alt was way worse. Improvement is single payer.]

8/8/2017 10:10:59 AM

you should read the whole thing. clearly people here don't agree (guess greenwald is "retarded" now), but i think it's on point.

8/8/2017 10:19:40 AM

What Greenwald completely misses, is that we wouldn't be relying on the "deep state" if congress wasn't completely derelict in its oversight duties. I think you'll find very few people ACTUALLY giddy about having to rely on the IC to sort out this fiasco. He whines about Elites trying to undermine Trump, what are his opinions on the congress folk and rich donors that are actively empowering a borderline fascist? He whines about the Democrats connections to corporations but cant seem to find the time to put together an article about how a 1/3 of Trump's sitting administration are Goldman Sachs Alums?????????how??????????

Where is Greenwald's 1,000 words on how complicit the GOP is in Trump's corruption? Where is Greenwald's 1,000 words on the absolute naked corruption of the Trump administration? Where is Greenwald's 1,000 words on how the Trump admin is actively laying the groundwork for a proxy war with iran?

I won't even lie here. I've been completely let down by Greenwald and some other journos (Taibbi in particular). I devoured their writings criticizing the Obama administration on everything from drone killings to big banks. Now that a god damn fascist is in the whitehouse with a completely complicit party running interference for him, they can't even seem to switch gears from attacking "democrat elites." They spoke truth to power during the Obama administration and can only muster whimpers in the face of Trump. Instead focusing on this "man behind the curtain" bullshit about our enemies being the party that barely even controls any state houses across the country.

8/8/2017 11:06:36 AM

feels like we're gloriously close to a "WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!1!1" and I can't wait

8/8/2017 11:09:21 AM

^^
Why should Greenwald write about those things? They're already covered to death by everyone else, including writers at the Intercept. He, the New Republic, and Jacobin are writing about things other prominent outlets won't touch, and I'm glad for it.


[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 11:16 AM. Reason : WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!1!1]

8/8/2017 11:14:47 AM

Because it's the crux of the entire situation. If congress steps up and fulfills its checks and balances on Trump, the "deep state" doesn't have to leak or really participate in any way except possibly gathering evidence.

We should never forget EXACTLY where this all went wrong and the initial failure that enabled Trump to flaunt the law.

I'm not saying every single article needs to be about that, but it should at least be a paragraph in that article.


To add:

Do you want to know the REAL reason leftists are viewing generals as heros in the Trump admin? It's because they are pretty much the only people in the admin who's arguments don't seem like they were lifted directly from Stormfront's forums.

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 11:39 AM. Reason : Yes I'm upset about it.]

8/8/2017 11:23:08 AM

You may be disappointed in Greenwald/Taibbi/etc, but imagine how disappointed they are. They criticized Bush and the left ate it up. They criticized Obama for the same things and were laughed off or ignored. Now we're back to the right and you expect...what? It's such hypocrisy and deserves to be scrutinized.

Trump is clearly worse than Obama, but the point still stands.

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 12:01:52 PM

I like Greenwald. He's must read even though I don't always agree with him because he doesn't change opinions based on what tribe is doing something. I like to challenge my own thinking and he does that better than anyone I can think from the left. And he does it in a way that isn't patronizing like a Michael Tracey.

I also don't agree with him on everything. Trump and Russia especially.

8/8/2017 12:45:03 PM

Seriously? The left, especially the far left, flocked to both of these authors precisely because they led the way in reality-based criticism of the Obama administration. By the end of Obama's 1st term I'd argue that very few weren't eyes wide-open to Obama failures and overarching need to "moderate."

And both Greenwald and Taibbi are FAR too self-righteous to allow their readers to influence the arguments in their articles. Now that it's the Alt-right in power I expect them to continue their basic arguments - our foreign policy is shit, inequality is destroying the country, banks and corporations run everything, etc. instead we get this CONSTANT hand wringing about the shadowy deep state which no one can even articulate whom it actually consists of. The trump card being their collective inability to even lift a finger to criticize the entire GOP's complicity.

8/8/2017 12:49:16 PM

The dude broke the largest story in our lifetime about mass surveillance and exposed how deeply entrenched institutions of power maintain their authority through multiple administration's via suppression of dissent and intimidation whistle blowers.

I mean, Jesus. If you're going to lament about the lack of serious journalism in our current media landscape, then maybe don't dismiss serious investigative journalists for doing their jobs

8/8/2017 1:40:29 PM

Quote :

"Now that it's the Alt-right in power I expect them to continue their basic arguments - our foreign policy is shit, inequality is destroying the country, banks and corporations run everything, etc. instead we get this CONSTANT hand wringing about the shadowy deep state which no one can even articulate whom it actually consists of. The trump card being their collective inability to even lift a finger to criticize the entire GOP's complicity."

He criticizes the GOP constantly. He just doesn't let Democrat complicity slide. Greenwald and Taibbi haven't changed. Maybe you have?

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/17/chelsea-manning-is-a-free-woman-her-heroism-has-expanded-beyond-her-initial-whistle-blowing/

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/02/trumps-support-and-praise-of-despots-is-central-to-the-u-s-tradition-not-a-deviation-from-it/

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/14/trumps-cia-director-pompeo-targeting-wikileaks-explicitly-threatens-speech-and-press-freedoms/

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/07/the-spoils-of-war-trump-lavished-with-media-and-bipartisan-praise-for-bombing-syria/

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/29/to-serve-att-and-comcast-congressional-gop-votes-to-destroy-online-privacy/

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/26/trumps-war-on-terror-has-quickly-become-as-barbaric-and-savage-as-he-promised/

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/18/trump-administration-ousts-un-official-to-protect-israel-from-criticism/

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 1:55:53 PM

When I say complicity I'm referring to the Trump-Russia fiasco. He doesn't even touch the GOP's enabling of Trump. The only thing that's changed is I've tacked to face the clear and present danger head on, while Greenwald is out tilting at "deep state" windmills.

8/8/2017 2:08:02 PM

So because he hasn't reported on [thing 1000 other journalists are reporting on], he's wrong and irrelevant? Give me a break dude. Are you denying that there is a consistent threat spanning presidencies?

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 2:18:28 PM

He actually had a conversation about Russia on the intercepted podcast:

https://megaphone.link/FL8633314507

8/8/2017 2:22:59 PM

Quote :

"The dude broke the largest story in our lifetime about mass surveillance and exposed how deeply entrenched institutions of power maintain their authority through multiple administration's via suppression of dissent and intimidation whistle blowers. I mean, Jesus. If you're going to lament about the lack of serious journalism in our current media landscape, then maybe don't dismiss serious investigative journalists for doing their jobs"

to clarify i'm only criticizing the appeal to authority fallacy where i'm supposed to just accept an opinion because greenwald said it even though its a dumb opinion

8/8/2017 3:16:00 PM

I posted it because he goes into more detail and illustrates the point better than me, not because Greenwald is always right.

I did think it was funny that you called me retarded for sharing his opinion.

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 3:51 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 3:49:58 PM

It's not an appeal to authority. He provides his rationale. Listen to the podcast (starting around 35 min mark). It's a good conversation worth listening to

8/8/2017 3:57:56 PM

In the intercepted podcast prior to the one I shared, Jeremy Scahill interviews Alfred McCoy for a different perspective on how potential meddling signifies the decline of American global influence and signifies a declining empire. Both interviews are worth listening to

Follow that shit on spotify

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

8/8/2017 4:09:55 PM

Quote :

"I did think it was funny that you called me retarded for sharing his opinion."

let me be very clear:

YOU ARE RETARDED BECAUSE YOU THINK TRUMP IS A THREAT TO EXISTING POWER STRUCTURES

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 4:27 PM. Reason : like extra earl retarded, like shrike is a clintonist retarded.]

8/8/2017 4:26:34 PM

He is, for the reasons outlined in Greenwald's article.

8/8/2017 4:40:30 PM

He isn't, because he isn't an effective leader.

Not impressed by that pod cast. He described what Russia did as garden variety hacking. I guess he doesn't realize that Russia has found a model to create false narratives that can become facts to a portion of the country's populace. Undercutting voting, which is the base of the Wests system. Garden variety.....plz

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 5:03 PM. Reason : fds]

8/8/2017 4:49:24 PM

Quote :

"He isn't, because he isn't an effective leader."

that's one of the main reasons detailed in the article.

Quote :

"I guess he doesn't realize that Russia has found a model to create false narratives that can become facts to a portion of the country's populace."

the US has been doing this for a very long time

[Edited on August 8, 2017 at 5:05 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2017 5:03:48 PM

dude's on the verge of starting a nuclear holocaust

guess that's one way to rid the country of current power structures?

8/8/2017 5:56:35 PM

https://news.vice.com/story/trump-folder-positive-news-white-house?utm_source=vicetwitterus

8/8/2017 6:31:21 PM