Was ESPN just like "this guy nearly beat Clemson, let's have him on the air!"

1/12/2017 7:59:56 PM

i don't know why they picked him...but they also had Matt Ruhle, Mike Macintyre, Steve Addazio, Dino Babers, and whatever BYU's coach name is. Ruhle is obviously kinda a big name now that he took the Baylor job and MacIntyire at Colorado is doing well, but it's not like they were picking the hottest names out there. my initial guess would be having Babers, Addazio, and DD all on might be because they all played Clemson...but then they didn't have SEC coaches that had played Alabama. i agree it was kinda a weird choice, and maybe our SID approached ESPN about it...but i think it's probably good exposure if nothing else

1/12/2017 8:15:00 PM

Any exposure is good exposure when you are a coach at a place like State.

1/12/2017 9:04:16 PM

Back in November, if you had told me Dave would have more credibility points than Gottfried in January, I would have called you a Loon.

+50 for being our last hope

1/29/2017 3:18:24 PM

NOw there's extra pressure on Dave to produce a 10 win season

2/8/2017 11:58:17 PM

+1 for the quickly disciplining the 5 players.

8/23/2017 6:29:47 AM

Quote :

"Back in November, if you had told me Dave would have more credibility points than Gottfried in January, I would have called you a Loon. "

i did and you did. everyone did.

8/23/2017 7:29:10 AM

Is his seat hotter than Gott's was last year?

8/23/2017 2:29:43 PM

my opinion. no... we have no football history and you can argue our division against any others as the toughest in football. you can't EXPECT to beat those top teams in the atlantic. Meaning just cause we have a strong/hyped team this year doesnt mean that FSU, clemson, and louisville are going to roll over to mediocrity. Just having a 50/50 shot against them all every year should be the expectation and he seems close to having that gap closed. But if we get outclassed in all those games, then it's a hot seat yes.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 9:17 AM. Reason : division strength]

8/24/2017 9:16:10 AM

is dd's seat hotter than gott's seat before game 1? probably. but i think that's because none of us expected basketball to go off the rails so fast and so terribly (cue e man saying "i told you so"). like, we were confident enough in the roster and staff that we wrote 2015-16 off as an anomaly without worrying about whether gott was on the hot seat. DD, on the other hand, had lost a good portion of the fan base prior to the UNC and Vandy wins and many were ready to fire him before the season. so his seat, in 2016, was hotter than gott's ever got in 2015-16. but he seems to have won some fans back over with the win over UNC and Vandy and while hopes are high for this year...i think if he puts out a 6-6 or worse season then there will be plenty of people wanted him gone.

maybe i'm wrong, but i think most of us were confident enough in basketball prior to the '16-17 season, that gott being on the hot seat wasn't really on our radar. but things went off the rails so quickly that there was no choice but to fire him.

DD's not starting this season with a super hot seat, but the results have been mediocre enough that if we don't have a break through year then plenty of fans will say they've seen enough and it's time to move on. i don't think either coach has/had a particularly hot seat prior to this season (or last season in gott's case). but it seems slightly warmer for DD if only because he hasn't had the past accomplishments that gott had.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 10:39 AM. Reason : g]

8/24/2017 10:37:33 AM

Makes a 3rd straight bowl game and he won't be fired. He's under contract through the 2019 season and our schedule is tough enough that I don't think anyone expects more than 7-8 wins.

I'd say his seat is lukewarm at best right now, but obviously stumbling out of the gates or looking bad on the field could cause it to warm up quickly. Barring significant injuries, missing a bowl game would really heat up his seat going into next season.

It's going to take something catastrophic for Yow to want to go through a coaching search knowing she's headed out the door soon.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 10:56 AM. Reason : .]

8/24/2017 10:55:38 AM

If we haven't fired DD by this point, what makes you think we will anytime soon. Apparently, Yow is ok with 7-5 or 8-4 every year. We are basically living through Mike O'Cain 2.0, except without the legendary players like Holt. DD's job is about as secure as any ACC coach not named Dabo, so dont expect any changes any time soon.

At least our tailgate scene is still good.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ^6-6 and a bowl game is not a succesful season.]

8/24/2017 1:05:39 PM

^Win the bowl game and finish 7-6 with a bowl win will be a decent season.

Success is just based on what your expectations are. We have a pretty brutal schedule, but I think most people would put our predicted regular season record at 7-5, so we'd only be 1 game off the mark at 6-6.

Still think it would take something like 3-9 for Doeren's seat to get hot.

Remove the 1 outlier season from Amato and his average record was: 6-5
Remove the 1 outlier season from TOB and his average record was: 6-6
Doeren so far without a peak season: 6-6

If you remove his first season where he was left with basically nothing, he's averaging 7-5. So yeah, Doeren basically has us right back where we were under Amato and TOB, only thing missing is his one peak winning season I guess.

8/24/2017 1:48:35 PM

Doeren hasn't beaten anybody though. All of our other coaches had a signature win or two. If we got 7-6 yet again, with a 5th straight losing conference record in his 5th year, his buttock cheeks will be quite warm.

8/24/2017 1:58:42 PM

Yeah but I don't recall the Atlantic ever being as strong as it's been since Doeren took over either. I mean 2 national champs and a Heisman winning QB on the other top 25 team. It's been a tough 3-4 years for teams in the Atlantic.

That's why that missed kick was so funny. He makes that 1 kick and we finish last year 8-5 with a win over the #1 team and a bowl win and no one is even mentioning his seat being warm.

But I agree that he needs to hit .500 in the ACC this year, preferably with a win over one of the top 3 Atlantic teams.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 2:19 PM. Reason : .]

8/24/2017 2:18:50 PM

Quote :

"We have a pretty brutal schedule,"

I wouldn't call our schedule brutal. it's uneven.

Quote :

"only thing missing is his one peak winning season I guess."

After 4 years, we have enough evidence that DD cant beat a good team. What makes you think we haven't seen his "peak"?

Quote :

"Yeah but I don't recall the Atlantic ever being as strong as it's been since Doeren took over either."

I agree that there has never been a time when the division has had 3 potential national championship caliber teams, however, the division is also just as bad at the bottom. BC and Syracuse are at low points they have never had in their programs existence. So Doreen basically has 2 automatic wins every year, along with his terrible OOC schedule and the weak Coastal division. 6-6 and a bowl is not succesful.

8/24/2017 2:35:42 PM

Louisville is not a national title caliber team

8/24/2017 2:47:33 PM

LOL. DD just tried to claim the ND win last year was a huge win against a great team. It was a hurricanee game against a 4-8 game. GTFOH

^They were definitely contenders the past couple years. Just couldn't get past Clemson.

8/24/2017 3:01:46 PM

This is gonna sound ridiculous, but both BC and Cuse will be much improved this year. BC won a bowl game last year and Syracuse has a great head coach (Dino Babers). Both teams are returning a ton of contributors. Neither game is gonna be an automatic win.

EDIT: Not a DD apologist, just think there's a chance we'll drop one of those two games.

[Edited on August 24, 2017 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

8/24/2017 3:05:18 PM

I'd say our schedule is MUCH tougher than the past 3 years.

3 teams that are preseason top 25 including 2 in the top 10.
2 non-conference games against P5 schools, 1 of which could be ranked before we play(ND getting some buzz).
Our cross division games are @Pitt and UNC, both teams that had good seasons last year but replacing some key offensive pieces.

I mean the weakest games on our schedule are Wake, BC, and Cuse, and all 3 of those teams are pointed in the right direction and are expected to be better than last year. I would say BC is a question mark on offense because their offense is expected to be worse but they have arguably the best DE in the NCAA playing for them and that D is always stout.

I don't count Doeren's year, that was a garbage year with a garbage roster left by TOB. So he's had basically 3 seasons with 3 bowl games and our talent level is MUCH better across the board then when he arrived here. This is suppose to be his "payoff" year with so many returning starters(wish Josh Jones returned), so we'll see if it happens but definitely one of those years you wouldn't be upset if we had 4 cupcakes for non-conference.

Will be interesting to see how this season goes and how many of our guys get drafted(5+ for sure) this year to see if Doeren can use that success to help the program take the next step. This is definitely the most buzz our program has had since the TOB season with Wilson where we fell 1 game short of winning the Atlantic.

8/24/2017 3:22:56 PM

Quote :

"He makes that 1 kick and we finish last year 8-5 with a win over the #1 team and a bowl win and no one is even mentioning his seat being warm."

Fun fact, if we beat Clemson, they wouldn't have been in the CFP and thus not #1.

8/24/2017 3:25:51 PM

If Doeren had inherited a great team his first season, would we still not count that year?

8/24/2017 3:28:09 PM

ya'll are crazy if you don't think doeren is on a hot seat, if he goes 6-6 he's in trouble

8/24/2017 3:45:53 PM

^Yep

8/24/2017 3:50:24 PM

Quote :

"This is gonna sound ridiculous, but both BC and Cuse will be much improved this year. BC won a bowl game last year and Syracuse has a great head coach (Dino Babers). Both teams are returning a ton of contributors. Neither game is gonna be an automatic win."

that's totally fair and accurate. but we're also gonna be better than last year and should still be solid favorites over these teams. BC projects as 76th in the S&P+, their O should still be bad, and their D should still be good.
Syracuse should be able to put up plenty of points this year, it's safe to think their D will be improved but it was super terrible last year, so who knows. still, they project as 60th in the S&P+.

for the sake of this i'll include Wake (they're 64th in the S&P+)...they should be about like last year. fairly uninspiring overall, but not terrible. a pretty solid D.

you're right in that we can't just walk into these games expecting an easy W. but we should absolutely beat all three of those teams. we have more talent and are simply all around better than those teams. none of those games have been automatic Ws in the recent past, so i don't think we're assuming we can just show up and win...hell we lost to BC last year. but we remain a notch above those teams in the ACC. and we have the right mix of talent, veteran players, and depth to take care of those teams and hope we can steal a game or two from teams above our weight class.

8/24/2017 5:44:47 PM

Quote :

"Fun fact, if we beat Clemson, they wouldn't have been in the CFP and thus not #1."

Fun fact: They were ranked #1 when we played them, thus we would claim we had a win over the #1 team in the country.

8/24/2017 9:10:14 PM

Quote :

"^They were definitely contenders the past couple years. Just couldn't get past Clemson"

They've lost at least 4 games every year since move to ACC

8/24/2017 9:28:08 PM

pretty sure Alabama was ranked #1 all of last season

8/24/2017 9:35:17 PM

Yea clemson was 3 in both polls when we played

8/24/2017 10:48:29 PM

The problem is that people dont understand how to judge performance in a winner take all system.

Records are like the electoral college and just like you can win the popular vote and lose, you can have a great season and not really have the record to show for it. We have been continuously on the rise and DD rebuilt the program.

Quote :

" Doeren hasn't beaten anybody though. All of our other coaches had a signature win or two. If we got 7-6 yet again, with a 5th straight losing conference record in his 5th year, his buttock cheeks will be quite warm."

I hate to break it to you but the better team usually wins and the better players are usually 4th and 5th year guys. The only thing thay can offset that is shitty coaching.

You guys are used to shitty coaches but if all coaches were good, the team with more and better talent would always win. DDs tenure is that jn a nutshell. he got ran with 1 class of freshmen talent and did ok with 2 and 3 classes. did pretty well with 4 classes and now he finally gets to compete with top acv coaches where they are both on a level playing field with 5 classes of recruits.

the only outliers were the unc nd and ecu bc games which basically cancel out. we were even on the field with fsu and clemson.

im not saying hes perfect or completely cobsistent but he is worlds better than any coach we have had in basketball or football my lifetime.

id rather never get a top 15 win than go back to the days of being the top 15 team that loses to everyone

also you guys are trying to compare dds 5th year with his first full team to a year where gott was on his 2nd cycle of players and had already failed twice. apples and oranges.

7-6 is acceptable and realistically possible but a few plays or calls here and there could be the difference between 11-1 and 6-6.

8/25/2017 6:16:20 AM

Can you resuspend yourself?

8/25/2017 8:02:14 AM

We fired TOB for averaging 8 wins over his last three seasons. 7-5 isn't acceptable in my book for DD's signature year. He was hired to be better then TOB. I'm not calling for DD to be fired for going 7-5 or 6-6, just commenting on how TOB shouldn't have been let go under those circumstances.

I get that there are different metrics out there that factor into account margin of defeat and other stuff and we performed well by those numbers last year (ranked 24th overall according to sagarin, 25th to S&P+) but that doesn't matter at the end of the day... only wins and losses. If I had to look that up for this post I doubt most NC State fans on this board could remember and even less care.

8/25/2017 8:19:46 AM

i get that ^ but the ACC is also tougher than it's ever been. going 7-5 in this ACC isn't the same as going 7-5 in TOBs ACC. ultimately, though, yes you have to see improvement in the W/L record. the talent, depth, experience, etc is there for this year to be a significant step forward for DD and the program

8/25/2017 8:50:50 AM

Doeren is under contract through 2019, the contract is fairly-priced for his production, and Yow is amid her swan song...it's going to take a catastrophic season to make a coaching change after this year.

This is my guess at what results will mean for Doeren's seat being warm this year:
less than 3-9 -> she'll be forced to make a move.
4-8 -> seat will be hot heading into next season.
5-7 -> seat will be uncomfortably warm heading into next season.
6-6 -> seat will be warm heading into next season.
7-5 -> seat will be comfortable heading into next season.
8-4 -> seat will be cool heading into next season.
anything better -> seat will be ice cold heading into next season.

8/25/2017 12:05:31 PM

i feel like if we don't make a bowl his seat will be very very hot in '18. this team has some preseason hype, fringe top 25-ish in a lotta polls...we're veteran, talented, deep. if this team doesn't make a bowl then the fan base will absolutely have turned on DD even if Yow is sticking with him. even at 6-6 there's gonna be plenty of disgruntled fans.

none of it matters cause we're gonna be good this year. 8+ wins imo.

8/25/2017 2:03:59 PM

Cole Cubelic, an SEC sideline reporter, picked us to make the CFP along with Bama, Stanford, and Ohio State.

Cited our defensive line, our entire offense, and our home schedule as the reason why.

8/25/2017 2:51:13 PM

Did he include smoking crack in his reasons why?

8/25/2017 3:00:27 PM

Cubelic made that prediction week ago, discussed in football 2017 thread, todays tweet was just him saying he hasn't changed his mind.


But anyway, to the topic at hand. Doeren was on the hottest of seats before the UNC game if you believe the rumors, seems like a losing season would be pretty close to unacceptable this year.

8/25/2017 4:40:10 PM

i know Gott left Yow no choice...but i think we did see some indication that the stuff about Yow not wanting to make a coaching change if she's gonna retire very soon might not really be a factor for her. so basically...^

Cubelic's prediction is certainly outlandish but fuck it who cares. he's right that we have an elite DL, depth and veteran players at most every position, and some play makers offensively. a team with an elite D (if we can get some help in the secondary) and plenty of veterans and some play makers on O is the type of team that can make some noise. i'm not predicting us to make the playoff...but we've got a few of the pieces in place to have a really good year and knock off somebody like Clemson or UL in Raleigh and take care of the teams we should beat and wind up with 9-10 wins.

8/25/2017 4:46:38 PM

How in the Hell could Dave's job not be in serious Jeopardy if he goes 6-6 with this team? You listed 4-8 and 5-7 as hot next year. There is no way he is coaching in 2018 if he has a losing record this year.

8/26/2017 12:17:24 AM

we arent firing a coach after 1 bad year unless theres scandal

The prediction goes way out on a limb but isn't outlandish because clemson and fsu teams have no good qb and will win low scoring games by pressuring the other qb. pressure doesnt work on our offense and our defense will give their qbs hell.

[Edited on August 26, 2017 at 2:56 AM. Reason : took 2 awful years in a row to fire gott]

8/26/2017 2:55:38 AM

It took zero awful years to fire TOB

8/26/2017 8:45:49 AM

TOBs final downfall was his supposed best team (or at least the basket he put all his eggs into) was very mediocre and he had little in the pipeline as far as recruiting goes. if this year's team, DD's best, falls flat on their face...DD isn't gonna have many supporters left. whether he's actually fired or not probably depends on how specific things go.

again...this'll all be moot cause we're gonna be really good.

[Edited on August 26, 2017 at 9:28 AM. Reason : g]

8/26/2017 9:27:59 AM

^So in other words Dave has to get it done or he is gone this year because this is "his year"?

Quote :

"It took zero awful years to fire TOB"

Amazing really. 7-5 got TOB canned. 7-5 with Dave and some people think we are building something. Some people are talking playoff the very year after we lost to a 3-9 ECU team with a new coach.

8/26/2017 5:23:42 PM

I don't think any state fans are talking seriously about making the playoff. But to answer your question, yes...if DD shits the bed this year, id be fine with letting him go. But that threshold for what's "getting it done" is a bit fuzzy when comparing records to TOB. It's a much harder acc and division now. But there were some other factors with TOB I think like his shitty recruiting and he wasn't Yow's hire so I'm sure there's a shorter leash there. But yes...DD needs to get it done this year

8/27/2017 2:14:40 PM

Quote :

"Some people are talking playoff"

Yes this statement isn't intellectually honest. Who has talked about the playoff besides that SEC guy??

8/27/2017 2:39:43 PM

Phil Steele did as well.

8/27/2017 4:59:03 PM

so one guy predicted us to the playoff and phil steele listed us as one of 13 teams that "could crash the playoff party"...so he's maybe calling us a top 17 team? or, probably more accurately, sees us a non-traditional football team with a high ceiling if everything breaks right for us since the entire point of his piece was picking teams that nobody else is picking, right?

8/27/2017 5:48:11 PM

yeah, even State fans were putting distance between us and the cube guy. I mean, we can dream... and I guess if things broke just right for us we could find ourselves beating the teams we should beat and stealing 1 or 2 against the powerhouses... if the division beats itself up anything could happen

but hey, we have all been here before and we all know how it turns out. Dreaming of being in the ACCCG is a fool's errand, much less anything bigger
=========================

What has me kind of up about football is that there is building optimism. We had sporadic bursts before but nothing that seemed secure. What if Doeren is the guy we thought he could be when we hired him? What if we are really building something that is set to be not just average with a 9 win season every 4 years but something where 4 losses in a season is a down year?

If we can get through this year with optimism then I think we can really have a shot at sustained success.

Wouldnt it be nice to be in the shitty UNC division though?

[Edited on August 27, 2017 at 5:54 PM. Reason : dew]

8/27/2017 5:51:35 PM

I love the optimism itt.

8/27/2017 8:43:32 PM