11

6/11/2008 1:27:30 PM

Quote :

"i can't believe people buy AMD/ATI anymore."

did you miss the bang/buck discussion? if you can show me an nvidia card with the same specs and at least the same performance as the 3850 for $80 (and this was nearly 2 months ago, and we all know computer component prices drop frequently) then you might have a point...otherwise, what's your complaint? until fairly recently (read february/march), amd/ati had craptastic driver support and did not play well with nvidia-based motherboards (can't imagine why)...but that's hardly a valid argument at this point in the game

i'll happily buy an amd/ati card that performs noticeably better than SIMILARLY-PRICED nvidia cards...and sure, at a certain price point, buying an amd/ati card would be silly...but that price point is much above $80

6/11/2008 3:12:45 PM

i think it's worth it to spend a couple more dollars for an nvidia card.

and for what it's worth the 3850 is the same price as the 8800GT 512MB

your rare $89 for the 3850 is about as rare as the 8800GT 256 for $89

6/11/2008 5:50:27 PM

What exactly make this sound card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006

worth $40 more than this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102007

?

Also, how much should I trust the power supply already installed in a case if it's got 5 star reviews?

6/11/2008 7:31:06 PM

Um ones an XtremeGamer. I don't know.

^depends on the case brand. Antec sometimes has good power supplies with thier cases i think.

6/11/2008 7:35:35 PM

^^different processors i think

6/12/2008 1:43:41 AM

This is what I'm looking at:

LIAN LI PC-7B plus II Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
XFX PVT88PYSF4 GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP
FSP Group SAGA+ 400R ATX12V 400W Power Supply
Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP support
SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N


Two concerns:

Is the DDR2 800 memory compatible with the 1066 FSB CPU? I'm completely lost when it comes to memory compatibility nowadays.

Will a quality 400watt PSU handle an 8800GT?

6/12/2008 8:45:35 AM

looks great, yes, the memory is compatible, the power supply should be sufficient.

one thing i'd change would be a better HDD, get a newer gen .11 320GB, better price/performance.

I'd say get the Antec Earthwatts 500W instead, higher efficiency, higher wattage, active PFC, still good price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

the FSP is no PFC, not good

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 11:14:44 AM

Quote :

"i think it's worth it to spend a couple more dollars for an nvidia card. and for what it's worth the 3850 is the same price as the 8800GT 512MB your rare $89 for the 3850 is about as rare as the 8800GT 256 for $89"

1.) "couple", by definition, means 2...i'd happily pay $2 more for an equivalent nvidia card...unless by "couple" you mean $40, which is a 50% increase in price for the same performance

2.) it was $80, not $89...and i never said it was rare...and i'd LOVE to see a 512mb 8800GT for $80...do you have links to back this up, or are we talking about fairyland?

a cursory search of newegg gives me 512mb 8800GT cards for about ~$150+ after rebate and shipping, which is nearly TWICE what i paid

the 256mb 8800GT is coming in at ~$130 and the 256mb 8800GT is not comparable to the 512mb 3850 in MOST high(er) end games

so i'm curious as to where you're getting this idea that for the same memory and performance, nvidia is only a "couple" of dollars more...because from what i'm seeing, you're gonna need to drop about $40-50 more to get comparable performance

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:27 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:20:28 PM

you're a jackass just for thinking that when I said couple you thought I meant $2... couple = few.

you can get 8800GT 512MB for $130 AR on a weekly basis
http://www.slickdeals.net/permadeal/12750

and 8800GT 256MB for $85 AR:
http://www.slickdeals.net/permadeal/12778

the point is, show me a 3850 for $80... that's right YOU CAN'T

so take TODAY's prices and the lowest price on a 3850 512MB card is about $120, so yes, it's only a FEW dollars more.

i am not going to wait 6 months for those rare $50 rebate deals on an ATI card when i can go out and buy an 8800GT almost any day of the week for at most a few (~$10) more than the 3850.

so like i said... "i can't believe people buy AMD/ATI anymore."

good for you, you got in on a rare deal on what is normally a $120-$130 card.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:29:34 PM

you keep making assumptions that aren't true...i didn't say you could walk into any store and pick up the 3850 for $80...and i didn't say that you couldn't get nvidia cards on the cheap, either

what i HAVE said is that 2 months ago, i paid $80 (after rebate, which i've received already...because if you're relying on those tigerdirect rebates you posted above, you've got a hard lesson to learn)...you can't find a comparable nvidia card TODAY for $80 (notice i said comparable, and by that i mean across the board in terms of performance), let alone 2 months ago

hands down, my $80 3850 is superior to any $80 nvidia offering...and until you can show me otherwise (maybe in 6 months), it's just nvidia fanboy-ism talking...the thing is, all things being equal or at least CLOSE, i'd go nvidia in a heartbeat...but they're not equal - my card is faster and cheaper, easier to overclock, uses less power and generates less heat than the comparable nvidia

Quote :

"couple = few"

btw, that's not true, either..."few" generally means 3 or a "relatively small number", but it is not the exact same thing as "couple"

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:39:43 PM

you don't have to say it to imply it.

so just shut up about this one time deal you got on a 3850.

and i've never had a problem with my tigerdirect rebates, though i know many have, a rebate's a rebate, point being i can get that price nearly every week.

edit - do i have to spell it out for you or are you just being a troll? when i said "couple = few" i meant that's what i meant by it, not from the dictionary

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:40:45 PM

but i can't help myself...you're such a dumbass to say:

Quote :

"i can't believe people buy AMD/ATI anymore"

you can't? really? you can't understand how someone would want to pay less money for more performance? it's THAT confusing to you? you can't POSSIBLY comprehend how, regardless of the situation, anyone would purchase a (comparatively) superior product for less money?

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:42:27 PM

here's the problem, you are taking my statement personally.

and i think that those people that got in on your once every 6 month rebate promotion are the few that got in on a good deal.

generally speaking, no i can't fathom why anyone would choose a lower performing graphics card when you look at their normal retail everyday prices. promotions aside.

6/12/2008 12:44:49 PM

Quote :

"generally speaking, no i can't fathom why anyone would choose a lower performing graphics card when you look at their normal retail everyday prices. promotions aside."

and that, i agree with...generally, nvidia is more bang for the buck, and they're great

in this particular case, nvidia is teh sucky and simply can't compete and to imply that amd/ati can't possibly produce a good product, regardless of price, is ignorant

FWIW, this is what i got for $80:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103051

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:48:43 PM

^i found the thread:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=814057

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM. Reason : nm]

6/12/2008 12:57:04 PM

aha...mine was $80.29, but i used a coupon code, GCO, and the rebate

6/12/2008 12:59:03 PM

i need to stop with my edits...

i'll post a new post for this:

in gaming, nvidia outnumbers ati 2:1, has an overall market share of 60-65%
http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

71% as of Q4 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/5je77w

i think when you look at what AMD/ATI has to offer, and you look at the comparable graphics card that they release to compete with a certain "line" of cards from Nvidia, AMD/ATI has always been a bit less competitive.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM. Reason : ,]

6/12/2008 1:01:37 PM

well, yeah...amd/ati has been in a nosedive for years (cpus and gpus alike)...that's not exactly new information (to me, anyway)

i read a few years back, when amd was talking about purchasing ati, that we might start to see quad-core processors in which two cores were cpus and two were gpus, all on one chip...boards would also be re-designed a bit to allow for replaceable/upgradeable dedicated video memory

i haven't heard anything since

6/12/2008 1:13:13 PM

As an Nvidia user myself, I must say that I think I'm going to be impressed by the upcoming HD4870 considering it's supposedly significant lower price than the GTX260 (which is somewhere in the $399 ballpark) and I've read that it's supposed to outperform the 9800gtx and may keep up with GTX260, so we'll have to wait it out a couple weeks and see, but I'm almost completely sure that ati will win the price/performance ratio in this new launch.

6/12/2008 1:14:15 PM

well that's kinda the point, ATI cards have always been close to performance and close in price, but to be a real competitor, if they can't beat nvidia in performance, they'll have to do it in price.

quagmire02's example is a good one, i mean if the everyday price for a 3850 was $80-$90, i think they'd be a helluvalot more competitive.

it's in part how intel regained their crown over amd in cpu's

the other thing is life-cycle... the 9-series came out months ago... meaning by the time the 4-series of ATI comes out, you know nvidia has something even better only a few months away.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 1:20:03 PM

You guys are silly. In my opinion if you're playing games and complaining THIS much about video card prices you should not really care about a 30-50$ price difference anyway. I don't care how much you paid for a card, the 8800gt is better than the 3850. period. It doesn't matter if the 3850 was 20$ you still got a better performing computer. Now if quag can get 2 3850s and do crossfire for the price of one 8800gt THAN he would have gotten a deal. Yes price/performance is important but if you guys have the income to buy a top of the line computer, than quit complaining about such little differences in cost.

6/12/2008 1:30:12 PM

Uh. Girl stepping into the ring here, trying to build a better gaming rig. Make note though, I'm not going all out, I'm just looking for some decency here. Already got a computer that I love to death, but its just not performing with some of the newer stuf, and has got one small hard drive. Already got a case, gotta check on the power supply (mind need more wattage), monitor and disk drives. Pretty much parting out my old computer for the basics.

Let me know what you think. I mean, my current computer can't even run Oblivion. So I'm looking to at least run that, so nothing extremely superior. Don't really wanna spend more than $500.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2.5GHz Socket AM2 65W Processor ($60)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive ($45)
ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard ($70)
SAPPHIRE 100177L Radeon X1950XTX 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card ($100)
Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2N5K2/2G ($42)

Grand total being a little over $300. What changes can I make to this basic set up to give me more bang for my buck, as I've still got about $100-200 I'd be willing to spend? I know there's always going to be a debate of nVidia vs. ATi and AMD vs. Intel, but I'm not looking at the top, I'm looking somewhere in the middle. I think the biggest change to make might be the processor...but I'm not sure. This is my first time piecing together a computer (I won't be doing the assembly mind you), and it was hard enough trying to remember compatibility stuff. Did I at least get all that right? lol.

6/12/2008 1:37:08 PM

I'm not complaining, I think the 4870 will keep up with the GTX260 for a lot less, but we'll see.

6/12/2008 1:37:15 PM

Quote :

"I don't care how much you paid for a card, the 8800gt is better than the 3850. period."

see, this is where proof is necessary - i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but i'd like to see you compare the 8800GT (not the GTX or GTS or OC version) to the 3850...and then, make sure you're comparing the 512mb versions of each (not 256mb vs 512mb, because that's not a very fair comparison either way)...and THEN, make sure you're comparing a range of games, because one game (or application) does not determine the overall worth of the card

do you have any ACTUAL proof of your claim, or is it an assumption? and then, i think it's stupid to pretend like price doesn't matter...if a person has $80 to spend on a video card, what you're saying is that for that same $80, NVIDIA will be better, no matter what, and that's just out and out fanboyism

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 1:40:24 PM

^^^ get DDR2-800 speed memory at least. the rest of it looks ok i guess.

^but you can't bring price into the mix since your deal was obviously a rare one, people with $80 aren't going to be looking at 3850's

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 1:43:08 PM

^^i'm saying if i only had 80$ to spend on a video card i wouldn't care that much about performance. It's just like buying a ps3 or 360 w/ games. If i want the performance i put down the money. Sure look for good deals but i don't think it's THAT big of a deal. It is gaming, and you're getting a deal anyway because you get to pick your hardware compared to a console where you're stuck with outdated shit.

^^^^OMFG IT'S A GIRL SPECING A COMPUTER!!!!
...get a cheaper intel core 2 duo, and get an 8800gt. You can spend 100$ more on the cpu and spend 50$ more on the video card and it'll be a world of difference. You really don't want an X2. That current rig will still struggle to play oblivion.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 1:46:47 PM

what he said^

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 1:47:14 PM

^^ Yeeeah, I'm just trying to jump in here while you guys are having a discussion

So, if I change to an Intel Core 2 Duo, I gotta change my mobo.. I just don't know what to CHOOSE. Mm, then most of the graphics cards that are in the $150 range are PCI Express 2.0 x 16 slots, which is another motherboard thing. So let's try this again? (Upgraded the memory speed per suggestion, same flippin' price, duhr, why didn't I see that)

Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive ($45)
Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2K2/2GR ($44)
XFX PVT88PYSF4 GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card (only $130, savings of $50)

Can you narrow the field down a bit more with the Intel processors? Or should I just refer to benchmarks?

Another question...what sort of difference is there in memory when you look at a 2 GB memory or a 2 x 1 GB memory? Is it "harder" to access two separate channels essentially when you've got the 2 x 1 GB? I don't know the terminology to use...lol.

6/12/2008 3:01:56 PM

1 stick of memory by itself is called single channel
2 sticks of memory is called dual channel

typically dual-channel is perceived as better as it has higher bandwidth potential, but may be negligible perceived difference

i'd recommmend an E7200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052


and possibly a G31 or G33 board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131197
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131187

or nforce 7100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128072

BTW, PCIx16 2.0 cards will work just fine in PCIx16 without any performance loss

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 3:35:39 PM

^yeah what he said. The 8800gt 512 is a great deal for only 130$. The Core 2 Duo e7200 is a great deal also and if you ever want to overclock it you shouldn't have any trouble getting it past 3.0ghz for some extra speed.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 3:42:46 PM

i'll second dumping the AMD proc...unless it's free, and even then it would be a hard decision to keep it

as for the proc, wouldn't she be better of with an E6750 or E6850? i realize they're 65nm chips, but the FSB and cache are both higher, and (i think) you can pick them up for less than the E7200

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 4:39 PM. Reason : nm...i didn't realize they were that much less]

6/12/2008 4:38:46 PM

the E7200 is $130, and unless she's getting the E6750 or E6850 from your clearance rack at work, i doubt they are less than that "new"

6/12/2008 4:41:34 PM

Quote :

"unless she's getting the E6750 or E6850 from your clearance rack at work, i doubt they are less than that "new""

6/12/2008 4:45:44 PM

Review that just came out today - "the new budget king"
http://www.techspot.com/review/100-intel-core2-duo-e7200/

6/12/2008 5:15:03 PM

I wish they would include e2180 in that test. i think it has better bang for the buck

6/12/2008 5:17:26 PM

The editor is [user]Julio Franco[/user]. I see he's finding things to do after retiring at age 49 from baseball

6/12/2008 5:18:19 PM

^^clock for clock yes, the E2160 is capable of 3.0Ghz out of the box on stock voltage, stock fan, but it's a pentium CPU versus the core 2 duo. the E7200 would still outperform it... but the E2160 is like what, HALF the cost? i agree, i would have liked to see it in there too.

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 5:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 5:19:29 PM

Great, thanks you guys for all your help! I didn't even notice the models of the Core Duos you guys were talking about on the charts cause I hadn't added them yet Duhr.

Total comes to $425! Not half bad, took your advice with the E7200, was debating on the G31 or the G35, I think it was a $55 difference for the double the memory capacity and a couple other slots elsewhere, but I don't know if I see myself using 8 GB down the road anyway, my computer now has a teeny bit over 1 GB...

Heh, I was saving this to do over tax-free weekend, but I had completely forgotten about the fact that things online usually don't even have sales tax. I'm a goof sometimes. Anyway, thanks!

6/12/2008 10:25:00 PM

Is that the only real difference between G/P31's and 35's?

If I don't care about the lower memory capacity and the fewer USB ports, should I go for the much cheaper P31?

6/12/2008 10:39:10 PM

8800GT v. 9600GT

Can't decide

6/16/2008 10:33:19 PM

8800GT
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-9600-gt,1780-20.html

6/16/2008 11:06:01 PM

I'd say it also depends on what prices you can get on either, the 8800gt is slightly better, but if you're paying a lot more for it, then I'd say it's not worth it. But then again, you can get either card for next to nothing these days anyway.

6/16/2008 11:43:11 PM

So there's no pixel shader standard or whatnot that the 9600GT has but the 8800GT doesn't?

That crap burnt me with my X800 and the latest Unreal engine

6/17/2008 3:56:23 PM

Quote :

"the other thing is life-cycle... the 9-series came out months ago... meaning by the time the 4-series of ATI comes out, you know nvidia has something even better only a few months away."

NVIDIA Rains on Radeon HD 4850 Parade With 9800 GTX+
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=12147

Quote :

"NVIDIA claims that when pitted against the Radeon HD 4850, the GTX+ is on average 22% faster than the 4850. NVIDIA’s reviewers guide for the 9800 GTX+ shows that the card can deliver 30 fps on Crysis at 1920 x 1280 resolution verses about 27 fps for the HD 4850....9800 GTX+ card will retail for $229. The old 9800 GTX drops to a price of only $199..... Unconfirmed rumors point to a July 16 launch for the 9800 GTX+."

6/20/2008 4:01:21 PM

Crap!

I just received my parts from UPS. I thought that I'd found a good deal on a 8800GT 512mb-- I actually found a bad deal on a 8800GT 256mb.

I can't believe I didn't notice it. I just ordered a 512, but I think I might just keep the 256 and put it into my wife's pc. Newegg is going to charge me ~$30 to restock it.

6/26/2008 2:06:27 PM

^that sucks? What was the deal? Newegg has 8800gt 512s for ~130$. I also helped my friend order some parts Tuesday night and he got a HD4850 for 160$.

6/26/2008 2:22:00 PM

If anyone gets bored, can one of you help me out? I'm looking for a new computer. I'll either build it, have someone build it or buy one pre-built. I really don't care.

I can put a computer together, but am not sure on the specific pieces I'd need. I don't know which brands/models are best (especially motherboards/processor)

I'm a WoW player, so I'd need a quick processor, >2gig RAM and a nice graphics card.

I don't really want to spend $texas, and I'd suppose anything under $1000 would be perfect. I don't want to spend more than $1500.

If you can throw together a barebones kit with the right pieces and link it, I'll pay ya just for that if I get it.

6/26/2008 5:13:17 PM

this is what i'd build for <$1000
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9977848&WishListTitle=tww-b1

options to consider:

- Add gaming sound card of your choice (x-fi gamer or razer ac-1)
- Opt for quad core (Q6600 or Q9450)
- Opt for nvidia (9800 GTX or 8800GT in SLI)
- After-market CPU cooler (Zalman 9500/9700 or Thermalright 120 or AC Freezer Pro)
- Gaming Keyboard and/or mouse (Saitek Eclipse II, Logitech MX518,G5,G7,G9)
- Speakers (Logitech Z-2300)

[Edited on June 27, 2008 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2008 1:49:08 PM

^^^ & ^

I wish I'd seen that deal on the 4850 sooner.

6/27/2008 2:27:08 PM