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dtownral
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I've owned multiple BMW's (including my current f10); as well as a Fords, Chevys, a Volvo, Mazda, Nissan and Honda.

I love BMWs, and I can't stand steering and pedal feel in almost anything else. But BMWs aren't magic, they aren't manufactured with magical parts or magical processes. There is no reason why someone shouldn't expect their BMW to be equally, or realistically more, reliable than a generic appliance car. Most BMWs are not factory special CSLs or specially made, most aren't pushing the limit, most are just more comfortable and better driving appliance cars. So the argument that "that's the price you pay for the ultimate driving machine" falls flat.

1/24/2014 1:17:40 PM

1in10^9
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That doesn’t make any sense. All cars are not the same. A car that is more complex will require more frequent maintenance. If you don’t keep up with maintenance, it will breakdown. Common issue with used BMWs is that many can afford to buy it, but NOT maintain. What you end up is a sea of neglected used bimmers that eventually breakdown. Your average Honda is not as complex, doesn't require as much maintenance so people can afford to skimp on maintenance. That or you have Honda owners buying a BMW and expecting to spend $200/year on maintenance and have the same reliability as their econobox. No bueno.

1/24/2014 3:49:02 PM

Ahmet
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I have owned and heavily tracked E36s and 996s... On a 996, I haven't had to replace any part of the cooling system or suspension bushings. All this on a car that is significantly more capable AND more comfortable. Also, laughably better brake feel...

I don't think Hondas are comparable to BMWs, but it's not as simple as "Hondas are simpler". Honda's variable valve timing was arguably more advanced than BMW for a long time, the S2k revs higher than an E46 M3 w/out solid lifters...

1/24/2014 4:24:10 PM

dtownral
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Quote :
"That doesn’t make any sense. All cars are not the same. A car that is more complex will require more frequent maintenance. "

a bmw is not more complex

1/24/2014 5:53:46 PM

synapse
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1/24/2014 6:22:45 PM

1in10^9
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Quote :
"I'm gonna pay 1.5x accord money for an accord sized car with maintenance issues and some quickness
"


Quote :
"Honda's variable valve timing was arguably more advanced than BMW for a long time, the S2k revs higher than an E46 M3 w/out solid lifters..."


Quote :
"a bmw is not more complex"


So the conclusion is that BMW is the same or actually LESS complex than a Honda? LOL and in other news quantum mechanics easier to comprehend than algebra. I'm not wasting my time arguing this nonsense. Believe what you want.

1/24/2014 6:55:29 PM

Ahmet
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So that we're on the same page, I did not argue that a BMW is less or more complex than some other car in any segment, just pointing out that Honda's engines of similar eras have superior characteristics in certain ways. That said, I'd rather drive a 97 M3 than 97 any Honda, increased maintenance/lower reliability and all.

1/25/2014 1:01:56 PM

dtownral
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explain how the cooling system of an e36 is more complex than that of an appliance car of the time, or why its normal for a ZF transmission to last 50k miles

1/25/2014 1:37:29 PM

TKE-Teg
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Quote :
" That said, I'd rather drive a 97 M3 than 97 any Honda, increased maintenance/lower reliability and all."


Likewise.

Interesting question here: which drive train you would put more faith in for track use and DD duties for 100k, an E46 M3 or S2000? (just picked those two since they're contemporaries)

1/27/2014 9:06:09 AM

Ahmet
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I heavily tracked an e36 M3 (and raced a few times) to well past 200k on the original engine AND transmission, so not my experience w/bad ZF stuff. My steering rack did OK also, though I remember plenty of power steering return lines (low pressure, oddly enough). I have very little experience w/Hondas under track conditions, other than failing distributors and axles every so many track events I've seen or helped fix on friend's cars.

Also, like clock work I make that post, couple of days later I get a coolant level warning on the 911 turbo, looks like I need a radiator (~$500 a piece and there's 3 of them). Well, so there, my first cooling related issue on a Porsche. Here's to hoping it's an o-ring at one of the radiator fittings instead...

1/27/2014 2:47:18 PM

dtownral
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you tracked an automatic transmission? the automatics were the problem.

1/27/2014 2:56:46 PM

TKE-Teg
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^^GL. And notice I didn't say E36. Said 46

[Edited on January 27, 2014 at 4:21 PM. Reason : k]

1/27/2014 4:20:23 PM

smoothcrim
Universal Magnetic!
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^^ wasn't that transmission sourced from GM?

1/27/2014 6:03:54 PM

dtownral
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That was one of the unreliable automatic transmissions on late model BMWs

1/27/2014 7:24:24 PM

1in10^9
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on a second note i picked yet another less complex than honda E39 M5 today. '03 carbon black this time. silver '00 is sold. runs like a champ with all 160k on it.

1/28/2014 1:32:20 PM

H8R
wear sumthin tight
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1/28/2014 2:03:00 PM

1in10^9
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^i gots the PDC and rear/side sun shades this time around, but no extended leather

1/28/2014 7:52:25 PM

H8R
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I love my PDC, but my windows are tinted, so no shades back there

1/28/2014 9:25:50 PM

TKE-Teg
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lol, ain't nothing less complex about that M5's engine

1/29/2014 5:14:56 PM

sumfoo1
G.S. 20-63(d)
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Coyote swap? Lol

1/30/2014 8:28:35 AM

0EPII1
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NUTS!

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114033172586/bmw-118d-turned-into-a-555-bhp-1m-csl

Quote :
"Powered by the V10 S85 engine

TJ Fahrzeugdesign applied extensive upgrades on a BMW 118d and renamed it "1M CSL."

What used to be an average 118d is now a V10-powered 1-Series equipped with the S85 engine taken from the previous M5. In this application delivers its 555 bhp (414 kW) to the rear axle through a 7-speed SMG and enables the vehicle to reach 62 mph (100 km/h) in around 3.9 - 4.0 seconds while the 0-124 mph (0-200 km/h) task is completed in less than 12 seconds. It takes approximately 36 seconds for the speedometer to show 186 mph (300 km/h)."


3/31/2014 9:51:41 AM

1in10^9
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^if you like that you will REALLY like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93EevkOjnk

4/4/2014 12:18:01 AM

TKE-Teg
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Full tank, no driver:



Boo this man car.

4/21/2014 3:51:26 PM

kiljadn
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get off it, dude

BMW has a successor to the fabled 2002, it's the 2 series

stop your fucking whining

4/22/2014 6:47:14 PM

theDuke866
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And it is also heavy as fuck and as of now lacks an ///M derivative.

On top of all that, their entire lineup is softening up towards the mass-market.

...and they installed black boxes after swearing they wouldn't unless required by law.

So...he kind of has a point. I personally have about written the marque off.

4/22/2014 8:32:15 PM

Hiro
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Not to derail the thread, but which other automakers now include this?

GM
FORD
BMW

any others you know of Duke?

4/22/2014 8:59:26 PM

dtownral
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OH NOES CARS ARE GETTING HEAVIER!!!




[Edited on April 22, 2014 at 9:06 PM. Reason : and jesus fucking christ with the black box paranoia ]

4/22/2014 9:05:41 PM

theDuke866
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Umm...cars getting so heavy is a bad thing. BMW getting softer is bad, in my opinion.

And are you talking EDRs (^^)? It's basically everyone now except some VWs (and maybe Audis). Maybe Porsche and a few Italian exotics?

And if you don't care, then fine. If you want to claim that even if it's bad, it's basically ubiquitous and nearly inescapable, then that's fair and accurate...but I don't think you can call it paranoia. There have been plenty of people nailed to the wall either criminally or in civil suits due to them, and it's only getting more common.

[Edited on April 23, 2014 at 12:34 AM. Reason : ]

4/23/2014 12:30:47 AM

1in10^9
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Quote :
"I personally have about written the marque off"


same here. after being a fan my entire life and reminiscing posters of E30 M3 on my wall as a 10-year old kid, i think i'm finally done. the fact that the entire lineup does not have a SINGLE n/a engine is sad. bmw has shifted into making high powered rwd avalons.

4/23/2014 12:38:10 AM

theDuke866
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I'm starting to look towards Audi.

4/23/2014 12:44:45 AM

Hiro
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^But it's FWD or AWD

4/23/2014 1:04:14 AM

TKE-Teg
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^Yeah, well the 5 year old (design) Audi S5 just beat a brand spanking new BMW 435i in a Car & Driver comparo last month. Even C&D was surprised by that.

Quote :
"OH NOES CARS ARE GETTING HEAVIER!!!"


dtownral, BMW's getting heavier in particular is a symptom of their main problem - going soft. BMW isn't just another car maker. They proclaim to make "The Ultimate Driving Machine" which makes them a self proclaimed target. It is a fact that they are now producing vehicles that are inferior to their predecessors if you believe the Ultimate Driving Machine lingo. It's not just some fanbois on a forum harping meaningless drivel. People take notice when "the benchmark sports sedan" starts losing to Lexus and Audi in comparisons, as well as previous generations of itself.

Quote from C&D's latest review of a M235i:

Quote :
" those who can remember the past are the ones who have been condemned to repeat it, at least among a certain segment of BMW 3-series cognoscenti. You know them by the tarnish on their Roundels, the newest of which are now eight model years old and at least two generations obsolete.

BMW knows them for their unwillingness to replace these beloved E36 and E46 Bimmers with the larger, and in management’s view, much-improved successors. This uniquely American cohort perplexes the Germans because such refusal to march in lockstep with product planning comes despite—or perhaps because of—their self-avowed passion for the brand. The 2014 2-series coupe is Munich’s latest and best attempt to bring this crowd back into the fold. "


Stuff like this wouldn't be published if it was such a minority view. And BMW's kidding themselves if they think the 235i is gonna make those above mentioned individuals happy, as it's about 300lbs heavier than it should be.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-bmw-m235i-2-series-coupe-first-drive-review



[Edited on April 23, 2014 at 9:10 AM. Reason : just how it is]

[Edited on April 23, 2014 at 9:12 AM. Reason : a]

4/23/2014 8:55:33 AM

synapse
play so hard
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Quote :
"I'm starting to look towards Audi."


I don't trust 'em.

4/23/2014 10:39:56 AM

dtownral
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^^ vehicles are heavier because consumers want more in the car, but really my post was about how you complain about it every time and Duke complains about black boxes every damn time. someone could write a script for your usernames to respond to any car discussion, your comment would be criticizing the weight and size and saying how much smaller your subaru was and the Duke would ask if it had a black box and then talk about some car is is perpetually planning on buying or how much money he made flipping a Mitsubishi.

4/23/2014 11:04:40 AM

TKE-Teg
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LMAO, nice write up

We're mainly discussing vehicle weight for their performance models, where it's a valid point. Customers that want all that luxury shit can get it from any model in the line up. M GmbH means less and less as the years go by.

All in all, if you really don't get what BMW has historically stood for then you just won't understand. I dunno why you don't take issue with automakers pissing away their identity.

[Edited on April 23, 2014 at 1:00 PM. Reason : k]

4/23/2014 12:58:18 PM

synapse
play so hard
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http://jalopnik.com/chris-harris-says-the-bmw-i8-is-a-high-tech-stunner-1570016171

4/30/2014 6:12:55 PM

0EPII1
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http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=976863

BMW M2 (F87) is a Go! Coming Late 2015 - Early 2016

Quote :
"We've recently learned from multiple inside sources (who have been accurate in the past) that the BMW M2 is a go!

The M2 start of production is said to be scheduled for late Fall 2015, which places the first deliveries at the very end of 2015 or early 2016.

Confirming what we reported earlier, we've been told that the M2 will be powered by the N55 turbo inline 6 engine (N55B30T0), producing around 370-380 PS (365-375 HP).

BMW M reportedly also considered a "S48" engine for the M2, presumably an inline four cylinder turbo derived from the (future) B48 engine family. For whatever reason, this engine did not make the cut and we know now that the N55 inline six engine will power the M2.

The code nickname for the M2 is "pyrat2." Why pyrat2? If you recall, the 1M coupe's nickname was "pyrat."

The model code for the M2 will be F87. We do not expect a limited production cycle as the 1M experienced."


Rendering

4/30/2014 7:54:57 PM

Jek
All American
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^ I wonder if it will get a Limited slip. My buddy just ordered an M235i and it surprised me that it doesn't come with a LSD.

I'm cautiously optimistic, the M2 could be a cool car. I liked the 1M (rode with an instructor in one at CMP and it was a blast), but the limited production numbers just ticked me off, glad to hear they aren't pulling that crap again.

5/1/2014 1:03:24 PM

TKE-Teg
All American
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The M235i is available with an LSD. It's a port installed option.

5/1/2014 1:21:34 PM

Jek
All American
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^ Yep, for $2,000 + install labor $. Seems pretty lame for a performance car to me...but I guess that's why it's an M235 and not a full M car.

It annoys me on the Cayman S also. I know its not the end of the world on a RWD performance car, but when so many cheaper performance cars come with one it seems like a weird omission to me. Maybe even one of those things where BMW and Porsche purposely neuter their lower level cars to sell more of the upper level.

5/1/2014 1:45:11 PM

TKE-Teg
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Unless navigating a super tight turn while autoxing an LSD isn't really necessary for a Cayman S. There's enough weight on the rear axle from the engine placement to minimize unwanted wheel spin. Lotus Elise also has no LSD, for the same reason.

5/1/2014 4:38:13 PM

1in10^9
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I'm not sure, but I would think they also don't put LSD on rear engine cars because it is much easier to spin out if you have LSD. I would guess it also takes a lot more practice and skill to properly handle oversteer on rear engine than front engine car. Might be a liability issue for manufacturers.

5/2/2014 1:30:43 PM

TKE-Teg
All American
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LSD was available as an option for the Cayman S starting in 2008

5/2/2014 2:26:29 PM

Hiro
All American
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I don't think these level of vehicles have issues putting power down to the ground on a road course when driven properly... Not having an LSD might make it harder trying to drift the vehicle and playing around in that sense...

I don't know. I haven't tracked a car yet.

5/4/2014 3:33:43 AM

0EPII1
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m5 turns 30, bmw releases a special model with 600 hp

and here is a gallery commemorating the birthday

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/bmw-m5-gallery-2014-04-14

5/9/2014 12:59:52 AM

Ahmet
All American
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Quote :
"^ Yep, for $2,000 + install labor $. Seems pretty lame for a performance car to me...but I guess that's why it's an M235 and not a full M car.

It annoys me on the Cayman S also. I know its not the end of the world on a RWD performance car, but when so many cheaper performance cars come with one it seems like a weird omission to me. Maybe even one of those things where BMW and Porsche purposely neuter their lower level cars to sell more of the upper level."


One of my previous 996s, without an LSD @VIR’s skidpad;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMWut18Aca0

5/9/2014 1:02:43 AM

0EPII1
All American
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M2 spy shots... looking good, just hope it is not as heavy as a pig!

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114050974960/bmw-m2-confirmed-as-first-spy-shots-emerge/photos

5/12/2014 12:30:24 PM

0EPII1
All American
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this one is the real thing, 4 tail pipes and all (^ that one has 2 tailpipes)

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114081279538/2016-bmw-m2-prototype-spied-with-a-four-tailpipe-exhaust

8/13/2014 8:10:22 PM

TKE-Teg
All American
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A lot of magazines have recently published reviews of the i8, and in the headlines or article description a few have labeled it BMW's supercar. I feel this is a poor description and regardless of how good something looks (in this case better than most other BMWs, but not gorgeous IMO) if it's no faster than a base spec Corvette it's flat out not a supercar.

8/14/2014 8:23:40 AM

1in10^9
All American
7450 Posts
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It runs 12.4 in quareter and 3.8 0-60mph, but yeah i agree..

8/14/2014 1:52:03 PM

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