Quote :

"athletic ability is no longer permitted in sports. please stop jumping."

you were being sarcastic but today you probably saw that athleticism can only get you so far. at some point you have to use your brain. leslie only played 18 minutes today because of foul trouble.

3/9/2013 10:52:28 PM

you guys remember when the media thought he'd be the ACC POY?

3/10/2013 10:50:03 PM

^

Yes, they were right about Calvin.

3/10/2013 10:52:58 PM

i can't wait till we can lock this thread, put a big black x across this entire chapter of our history and start over.


go away CJ. don't look back. we won't.

3/11/2013 8:21:22 AM

I know there has to be more to it than this, but I can't help but wonder if CJ Leslie's struggles can be somewhat attributed to not having to go up against Painter in practice. I'm sure Howell pushes him to try harder if they go up against one another. But if they run 1st team vs. 2nd team, he's going up against Vandy or Jevoni.

3/11/2013 8:26:34 AM

Quote :

"but I can't help but wonder if CJ Leslie's struggles can be somewhat attributed to not having to go up against Painter in practice being a lazy, selfish player that cannot play through bad nights without taking his team down with him"

3/11/2013 8:54:33 AM

^^CJ probably gets down on himself when Jevoni constantly owns him in practice

3/11/2013 8:58:03 AM

I think CJ is probably a pretty good dude. I wish he'd been more consistent this year. It's likely that he's just as frustrated as all the 30 year olds complaining on TWW.

It's a new season now. Hope he turns up his level of play like he did last year.

3/11/2013 9:32:03 AM

It baffles me that "fans" can be so critical of a college player who's had three of the best seasons that any player on their college team has had in years. Minus a handful of games and the turnovers (yes, some have been very costly), he's put up the best numbers a Wolfpack player has in a long time, and is playing on the best team we've had in an even longer time.

3/11/2013 10:09:56 AM

^ gotta agree with that. This season has been frustrating but to pin it all on CJ Leslie is a bit much.

3/11/2013 10:26:04 AM

That's like saying Atlanta fans shouldn't hate DeAngelo Hall because he got a ton of INTs

Any scrub can put up numbers if they get a ton of chances. Do you think CJ Harris puts up 15ppg if he played for us or Duke?

3/11/2013 11:43:01 AM

My problem with him is that when he is having an off night on the offensive end, he is completely destructive to the team. If he doesnt get off to a good start, you can count on missed FTs, stupid fouls, lots of turnovers and a bad attitude.

Even Bullet and TT10 cant deny this shit

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason : B]

3/11/2013 11:53:16 AM

its just people act like he's the reason we finished 5th, and he's the reason we lost every game...lets take a look at our losses real quick:

Oklahoma State: he went 1-5 for 2 points and fouled out...but the whole team played like shit
Michigan: 8-17, 16 points, 10 boards...Michigan was just the better team
Maryland: 4-10, 13 points, 5 boards, 2 turnovers, 0 fouls...our whole team scored 50 points that game
Wake: 5-9, 13 points, 5 boards, 4 fouls...he didn't singlehandedly blow a 16 point 2nd half lead
Virginia: 7-13, 20 points, 14 boards...he had 7 turnovers but you cant argue with 20 and 14 on 54% FG
Miami: 6-12, 18 points, 12 boards, 2 turnovers...against the hottest team in the country
Duke: 7-10, 16 points, 6 boards, fouled out...the way Duke started off the game, they wouldve beaten any team
UNC: 3-8, 6 points, 4 boards, 6 turnovers...I'll give you Leslie costing us this game
FSU: 2-5, 5 points, 3 boards, 4 fouls, stupid technical

so you could probably say Leslie cost us 2 games all season

yet people act like he's the worst human being to ever enroll at NC State, and they can't wait for him to leave because we'll be such a better team without our leading scorer, shotblocker, and 2nd leading rebounder

3/11/2013 12:01:26 PM

I dont feel that way, but he has been a disappointment given his hype

3/11/2013 12:03:15 PM

Quote :

"If he doesnt get off to a good start, you can count on missed FTs, stupid fouls, lots of turnovers and a bad attitude."

But he's only really had 4 or 5 terrible games. Recently against Wake, he started off shooting horribly, but ended up with one of the best games of his career.

3/11/2013 12:06:07 PM

Its hard to believe that you are arguing this with a 1 game example.

It's ok Bullet, it's ok to say that I am right every once in a while

3/11/2013 12:09:31 PM

that was one recent example dude. your comment that i quoted makes it sound like he's had a bunch of bad games. and you're wrong.

3/11/2013 12:13:41 PM

Quote :

"i say we all gang rape him tonite and then afterward we can stab his dog to really teach him a lesson it's really the only viable option"

3/11/2013 12:15:47 PM

Hahaha on that note, im done for the day

3/11/2013 12:25:20 PM

How is he lazy and selfish? Is he doing too much or not doing enough?

3/11/2013 12:47:37 PM

well he doesn't care about the team

his technical fouls are so apathetic

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason : lol empathetic]

3/11/2013 12:54:24 PM

His body language makes it obvious that he's lazy and doesn't care about the team

3/11/2013 1:00:51 PM

The only reason people don't like him is that his mistakes are mental or effort related.. It'd be one thing if his bad days were missing open shots from 12 feet, but just dribbling into a double team, traveling (a lot more than he gets called for).. It's just hard to root for a guy who doesn't "get it"

I'm still glad we have him, mostly because we don't really have anything else, but that shit is frustrating

3/11/2013 1:06:17 PM

that, and he's shown flashes of brilliance so we know he's capable of it

3/11/2013 1:09:01 PM

I get just as frustrated as the next guy, and i almost understood why the state fan threw the water bottle at him when he traveled at the end of the fsu game. It is frustrating. i cuss the tv during the games all the time in the heat of the moment. but i don't get the "fans" who truly hate him and take any chance they get to berate one of the best players their college team has had in years, and say they'll be glad to see him gone. that's just irrational and stupid.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 1:09 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2013 1:09:01 PM

^ pretty much agree.

3/11/2013 1:11:06 PM

3/11/2013 1:21:12 PM

3rd team

3/11/2013 1:21:55 PM

the water bottle was thrown at the ref

3/11/2013 1:29:23 PM

thanks for pointing that out, i had to listen to the last ten minutes on the radio.

3/11/2013 1:36:03 PM

he's frustrating because he almost carried us to the elite 8 last year and this year...he's taken away as much from the table as he's brought to it. I dont think it's an effort problem, I just don't think he's that good. Athleticism != talent. Wood has a few games every year where he'll knock down 5 or 6 threes and be a big part of our offense, but he also has nights where he just can't shoot. Leslie has the same thing with his offense dependent on his match up and whether refs are going to call travels/offensive fouls.

The difference is we don't start off every game having Wood force up four shots when he isn't open.

ok state was a bad game
michigan game he had 6 turnovers. how does a 3/4 tweener have 6 turnovers in a game?
13/5 against maryland with 2 to's and we all remember the end of the game
13/5 against wake. only played 18mins due to foul trouble
20/14 against uva. good game despite the 7 TOs. that's forgivable in a game when your starting pg goes down and purvis is playing the point for half of it
another good game against miami. 1 point loss to a top team w/o zo. no problem
16/6 in the duke loss with 4 TO.
and i would say we win the unc and fsu games if he doesnt play in either

if he was the all acc player he was supposed to be we lose the two games we're without zo, the game @duke and probably the ok state game, although it wouldn't have been as bad a blowout and that game hurt us in the eyes of the media/selection committee more than any other imo

3/11/2013 1:44:42 PM

i doubt you can name me a player in the ACC, or the country for that matter, who hasn't had multiple bad games this season

3/11/2013 1:46:44 PM

yea, although there arent many elite guys out there this year.

i was just addressing the point that he's only had a couple bad games this year. that was just a 9 game sample

3/11/2013 1:57:31 PM

(now sample the other 22)

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 1:58 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2013 1:58:42 PM

I am just as frustrated at times as some of you people, but to rather not have the guy on the team or hope he jets for the nba next year I dont really understand. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good for some players and overall he brings more good than he does mistakes. I agree that he has way more athleticism than talent and that shows with the inconsistent play but if he comes back next year by some slim chance I will be damn happy to have him.

3/11/2013 2:07:56 PM

Its a good thing giving up easy layups and offensive rebounds doesn't show up in the statbook.

When CJ has a big game offensively it really just cancels out for his complete absence defensively. In his amazing Duke game, how many easy buckets did amile have? The 4 of the other team goes off on us every game. Remember the game booker had? All the times we get outrebounded are also his fault. Its not like howell isn't pulling down absurd numbers of rebounds.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 2:45 PM. Reason : look deeper than the stats]

3/11/2013 2:42:51 PM

cj leslie's dopey ass is getting in the way of vandy finally getting enough minutes to breakout

3/11/2013 2:44:18 PM

So realistically, what are the chances that Leslie returns for his senior year?

3/11/2013 2:50:19 PM

Unless he plays out of his mind during the ACC tourney and NCAA's, he'll probably be back next year. Most guys don't leave early knowing that they are going to be at best a 2nd rd pick

3/11/2013 2:51:12 PM

If CJ comes back next year and goes off, gets first team ACC and/or leads the team to a top 3 ACC finish, will you mongoloids wanting him to leave quit TWW forever?

3/11/2013 2:59:39 PM

I assume that was his thinking last year but he has had it in his mind all year this was it for him. With the draft as weak as it is this year already, he has to assume if next year he plays the same he can only hurt himself. If he does come back and Zo were to come back by some miracle then next year could be what we thought this year might be.

3/11/2013 3:00:06 PM

This thread is over 50 pages of steady decline in attitude.

3/11/2013 3:07:03 PM

We lose our best two players. Theres no way next year could be great unless the new freshmen are instantly good.

3/11/2013 3:19:30 PM

Quote :

"I am just as frustrated at times as some of you people, but to rather not have the guy on the team or hope he jets for the nba next year I dont really understand. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good for some players and overall he brings more good than he does mistakes. I agree that he has way more athleticism than talent and that shows with the inconsistent play but if he comes back next year by some slim chance I will be damn happy to have him."

odd twist but both our program and leslie would have been better off if he left last year. as I've already mentioned, we probably have alex oriakhi starting for us and he fits this team much better. we have a ton of scoring. we need some guys who just want to beat the shit out of opposing players on defense.

worst case scenario painter comes back and we're probably slightly worse but leslie would've gotten paid.

now he's 2nd round material and we have two freshmen lined up for the 4 and 5. awesome

3/11/2013 3:25:42 PM

Based on this season you may be right of course at the time we didnt know it. Same thing applies this time I think, just the opposite. Sure we may feel like if he leaves we will be better off, but he could also come back and be the guy we expected next year if he gets his head right and realizes he has one last season to show the NBA that hey I am that guy you thought I could be.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2013 3:29:04 PM

Quote :

"odd twist but both our program and leslie would have been better off if he left last year. as I've already mentioned, we probably have alex oriakhi starting for us and he fits this team much better."

this is silly man. if ifs and buts were......

3/11/2013 3:31:23 PM

dude went fucking missouri to play for frank haith. and we tried to bring him in, he just had no interest in playing for a team that didn't have a starting spot open. it's certainly not ridiculous to think we wouldve had a shot there.

3/11/2013 3:43:45 PM

Another problem is that even when he's doing well, his game is not part of any offense so its bad for team chemistry. Howell and Warren can iso more efficiently they just don't get the shots leslie gets. We are last place in threes despite having the best shooter in the country because the ball never gets kicked out from the post and that is the basic 3 point offense. Its just bizarre watching this guy play.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 3:48 PM. Reason : f]

3/11/2013 3:47:16 PM

Quote :

"When CJ has a big game offensively it really just cancels out for his complete absence defensively. In his amazing Duke game, how many easy buckets did amile have?"

you mean the game where Jefferson scored 10 and Leslie scored 25? 2 blocks to Jefferson's 0 6 rebounds to Jefferson's 4? yes he was really negated in that game. there are plenty of times when CJ needs to get his head in the game but you are a fool if you don't see the positives he brings.

3/11/2013 3:57:30 PM

Quote :

"Unless he plays out of his mind during the ACC tourney and NCAA's, he'll probably be back next year. Most guys don't leave early knowing that they are going to be at best a 2nd rd pick"

Well, he only hurt his stock by coming by this season...maybe he doesn't want to risk hurting his stock any further. I would love for him (and, of course Zo) to return next year. But I'm not holding my breath.

3/11/2013 4:01:33 PM