Thinking about a 2008 R32 vs a 2010 GTI. I'm not sure how the reliability has been on 2008 R32 other than the gas tank issue and possible DSG (both should be replaced under warranty). I was just wondering about the reliability of 2008 R32 for slightly less $$ due to 94k miles...or stick with 2010 GTI much less miles and what appears to be a proven winner.

10/24/2012 12:38:00 PM

VWMSJ

10/24/2012 12:50:00 PM

I would imagine that the R32 will hold it's value better.

10/24/2012 12:59:06 PM

get a golf R... best of both worlds in modability, strength and awd.

10/24/2012 1:22:46 PM

awd, vr6 motor, better seats, less money and better resale? is this even a question?

[Edited on October 24, 2012 at 1:23 PM. Reason : and dsg >>>> other vag offerings]

10/24/2012 1:23:12 PM

i will say... the vr6 sounds like sex though...

10/24/2012 1:26:29 PM

I had a GTI for 8 years, that I bought new.

Here is the list of problems I had:

Leaky sun roof leading to mold in the car (resulted in class action lawsuit against VW)
Shoddy Transmission that only lasts 40K miles because it's the transmission for the non turbo 4 cylinder.
Every sensor imaginable broke within 60K miles
Timing belt slipped resulting in engine damage under 100K

I'd pass...

10/24/2012 1:37:45 PM

10/24/2012 2:06:27 PM

Even with the r32 having 94k miles for $16900? I always been a fan of awd, but really wanted a manual transmission... Heard good things about the dsg, but at 100k+ miles I'm a little skeptical...car sounds Amazing though!

[Edited on October 24, 2012 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ... ]

10/24/2012 2:25:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vYONOP-WH4&feature=related

10/24/2012 3:00:05 PM

So it looks like the car has been residing in the Fayetteville/Fort Bragg area...not really sure how I feel about that considering in two years it seems to have had 50k plus miles put on it and wrecked once "without damage" meaning probably aesthetically fixed with some possible issues. No DSG issues so far, but that means it hasn't been replaced and coming up on 100k miles. I think I may be able to offer 14000 cash and just see what could happen as the car does have a depreciation milestone coming up.

10/24/2012 4:16:58 PM

sti

10/24/2012 4:25:40 PM

Quote :

"Timing belt slipped resulting in engine damage under 100K"

that's completely relevant since both the 3.2 VR and the 2.0T TSI have a timing chain, not a belt.

just some notes on each:

2010 GTI
+ TSI (208.5+) 2.0t engine, which is MUCH better than the FSI
+ performance software alone will give you like 60hp and 100ftlbs, but requires removing and opening up the ecu (typically an extra labor charge)
+-you didn't specify transmission
- i've heard of the "body control module" having issues, which is basically central electronics. not sure how common that is.
+for under a grand, you can have just as much power, if not more, than an R32

2008 R32
+ holds value well
+- there are some aftermarket upgrade parts available (not sure how interested you are in this type of thing) but power/$ is lower than the 2.0t-TSI
+ DSG seems pretty strong
- DSG requires service every ~40k, which is in the $300 range
+ all wheel drive

overall, it seems like either is a good choice. don't try to compare the MK6 2.0t TSI engine to the earlier (06/07) MK5 2.0t FSI engine. they made a lot of changes to improve reliability and the TSI is the an awesome engine platform to build on.

10/24/2012 5:06:08 PM

I wouldn't own any VW/Audi direct injected engine before the current generation...

10/24/2012 6:58:58 PM

I wouldn't own any VW except for a TDI, and a "performance"-oriented FWD hatch is stupid.

10/24/2012 7:16:20 PM

baonest : think the interior and refinement of the R32 really appeals to me a little more than just going fast...if that was the case I'd be looking more towards sti/ms3/evo thanks though.

beethead : thanks for all that, was actually exactly what I needed. I didn't realize the r32 would hold that much value...hopefully that's the case.

May pull the trigger on this if it looks like it's been taken pretty good care of.

10/24/2012 7:18:52 PM

wait till next year and get a real R32

10/24/2012 7:22:53 PM

haha...yeah I wish. The Golf R would really be an awesome car IMO. I love the AWD and manual transmission, and I actually like the styling. That's def out of my price range though. So that's why I think i'm gonna stick with the r32..need something newer and reliable, with no worse gas mileage than I already have (18-23mpg on 2000 Honda CRV) and fun to drive as a perk!!

10/24/2012 7:40:08 PM

I went through the same debate (ended up going a different route though) and came to:

> 2010 GTI styling, even at the GTI level, looks less economy to me than the 08 R32 (while I love the butthole pipes and wheels, I hate the body shape)
> 2010 interior is much nicer (though I'd take the 08 R32 leather over 10 fabric)
> Similar refinement
> A chipped GTI will perform just as well in a straight line while getting better mileage

The only things that I really liked about the R32 were AWD>FWD in corners (even with haldex), the exclusivity, and exhaust note.

I personally think that a 2010 GTI with an APR chip is a better car to buy if you can get over the fact youre buying a GTI instead of a R32.

10/24/2012 8:11:09 PM

Came in here expecting SkyRine. Leaving disappointed.

10/24/2012 10:39:28 PM

both great cars!

10/24/2012 11:05:41 PM

Get the GTI. More tuneable, newer, better quality with more accessories, etc. Also you can get a manual. You definitely want a manual in a car like this.

I'd get the 2004 R32 over either.

By the way, I have a Golf R.

10/25/2012 9:00:09 AM

^ jealous...that's a pretty sweet car man!! I've been following them this yr and probably going up to cary autopark today to take a look at them. Def like the styling on those better...and the manual transmission...and AWD as opposed to GTI...What color?

10/25/2012 9:24:22 AM

I have driven both. The R32 has that lusty engine note, and accelerates like hell (relative to the GTI).

GTI is easier and cheaper to mod.

10/25/2012 9:24:25 AM

^^I have a RB 4 door, and jsausley has a RB 2 door.

If you go up to Leith, ask for Brett, he'll treat you right.

10/25/2012 10:08:55 AM

^ noted
thanks again...one more time though...is there any reliability issues I should worry about with 94k in miles? I'm coming from a VERY reliable car that is just getting up there in miles (270,000 YIKES!!)

I know it won't match my honda for reliability, but just don't want an injury prone money-hole

10/25/2012 11:20:28 AM

fwiw, golf r is based on the older FSI engine, but it has been improved over the older FSI

10/25/2012 1:05:22 PM

orly? why they do that?


i thought it'd be tsi + ko4s

10/25/2012 1:26:41 PM

i have no idea.. unless they started developing it before the TSI was in production.

it does have a k04

10/25/2012 2:44:50 PM

The Golf R was released in Europe in 2010. It features stronger internals and a K04 producing 18 psi stock, up to 28 psi with an APR 1+ or 2+ tune. At the time of its release the TSI was only just coming out while the FSI was known to be reliable with parts already available in the S3 and TTS, so it was cheaper to use than develop a stronger TSI so quickly.

The MKVII R will likely use a built TSI.

10/25/2012 3:00:06 PM

Quote :

"FSI was known to be reliable "

hahaha... now that's funny.

fwiw, unitronic > apr

10/25/2012 3:09:21 PM

FWIW, no.

There have been a LOT of issues on the Golf R with Unitronic tunes already. Tons of misfires and timing retardation.

10/25/2012 3:54:39 PM

really? I've installed a couple with no issues.

10/25/2012 4:32:02 PM

on another note...which one of you SUM BITCHES decided to buy the car TODAY!!! CAPS helps illustrate my FRUSTRATION!!!

j/k, but some one did buy the car...today...the day that I drove 35mins out of my way to the autopark to take a look at it...just in time to peek my head in the open window as it was parked by the service area and for him to drive it away. Oh well, guess I'm back on the prowl.

10/25/2012 4:37:26 PM

was that the r or the 2010?

10/25/2012 4:44:46 PM

the R.

The service guy said something about taking it around back and checking for something up with the rear springs...but other than that looks like sold...

10/25/2012 4:56:55 PM

lol @ unitrionic is bettar cause i sellz it

apr may not always have the most power but they're usually the best sorted out.

10/25/2012 4:57:40 PM

no, i sell it because it is better

fwiw, we've had several customers switch over from APR, Revo, Giac, etc and all of them were happy. recently, a guy switched from apr to uni on a 2010 gti tsi and said it was an incredible gain from just software.

but doesn't matter.. both have their benefits. my biggest qualm with apr is you have to buy their hardware if you want to do a turbo upgrade, so the options are more limited.

10/25/2012 5:18:46 PM

^ agreed.

that's why i went subie... even cobb you can re-tune your own shit

my 20g legacy is all tuned by meeeeeeeee and has been that way for 45k miles.

10/25/2012 5:34:20 PM

APR doesn't usually make the most power but they have the best tunes. No misfires, no timing retardation, lots of boost without overboosting, no idle surging, good, even power delivery and so on. They're also very reliable. Tons of people out there with 120k+ miles on Stage 2 or even Stage 3.

10/25/2012 5:37:07 PM

i have almost 200k on my 98 audi, been chipped for over 90k miles.

honestly, for most cars, one tune vs the next won't really matter a whole lot in terms of power.

If you're getting misfires or timing pull, it will typically be something other than the software unless every other car out there is having the same issue. for the 2.0t, the engine management is really sensitive to different types of intakes (it was a huge issue when the FSI first came out). i don't think you can really claim that apr vs unitronic is smoother power deliver, and we almost never see idle surging or overboosting, unless there is a hardware issue.

like i said before, the biggest reason we went with uni was that they offer a lot of options as far as big turbo setups. we've had to issue 3 refunds in the past ~6 years, once because it brought a torque converter issue to light on an allroad and the customer decided to sell it, and twice because the customer wrecked their car within 30 days.

when it comes down to it, the best choice is always going to be the software company you can get the best local support for, or what your trusted local shop offers.

10/25/2012 6:14:10 PM

intakes can really fuckup mafs...

with subarus... we don't fuck with the intake unless you go to a 30r or bigger turbo because it just fucks the stock maf up... at 340whp we need a new maf tube and a re-scale anyway... so no biggie... but less then that you just don't mess with it.


[Edited on October 25, 2012 at 6:33 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2012 6:31:35 PM

Slightly more money gets you 50K less miles

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5862088-2008-Blue-R32-40K-miles-Partial-Trades-Considered-for-2003-Land-Rover-Discovery

Doesn't hurt to look around. There are always deals out there.

10/26/2012 9:00:20 AM

^^ most of the issues with intakes on the 2.0T-FSI stem from the fact that the "maf housing" that is integral to the air box, which is also the engine cover, has an oval-shape. from what i can gather all of the maf scaling stuff was done empirically (i may be wrong on this).

when you switch over to a round tube (intake), the sensor element placement becomes crucial. when the fsi first came out, there were a LOT of issues using certain intakes due to the sensor placement within the cross sectional area of the intake. most intakes were putting the sensor element in the center of the circle, which threw everything off.

we built a 2007 GTI with the BSH "work of art" kit that uses a equal length tubular manifold and a 3076r. upgraded pistons, rods, etc. we were having quite a few misfires when we got it running, and a lot of that was resolved by changing the intake.

10/26/2012 10:49:48 AM

Yeah, lots of Golf Rs are having the same issue. There are about 10 intakes on the market and one of them has thrown CELs consistently in every vehicle it was installed. Most of the others are better, but still not perfect.

I had to swap my intake because of fuel trim issues. My thread on the subject: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5860772-Aftermarket-Intakes-and-Fuel-Trim-Issues

[Edited on October 26, 2012 at 12:09 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2012 12:09:38 PM

Good look rjlanthe

Think I'm going to save up for 3-6months and re-evaluate. Looking into these cars has been fun, think I need to look a little harder

10/26/2012 1:00:36 PM

there is not a single vw model, new or used, worth >20k outside the diesel toureg

10/27/2012 1:02:15 PM

Read your post. Looked in your photo gallery. Laughed.

Thanks.

10/27/2012 1:32:27 PM

Everyone stay calm... I think we've been trolled!!

10/27/2012 7:28:04 PM

I have a 2010 GTI that I've been really happy with.

Its at 40k now, Stage 1 chipped since 1k miles, Stage 2 chipped since 30k.

It has about 10 autoxes and 3 HPDEs on it and i've really been impressed. Its a ton of fun to drive and hasn't given me an ounce of trouble. It hangs with all the heavy hardware in BMWCCA "Advanced" group no problem.

I live in Boston now and have no garage so no more track or project cars (had an E36 M3 and then a SpecE30) for me. This is my do-all car and it's been doing it well.

10/28/2012 8:57:03 PM