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AndyMac
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Kristen Ritter as Jessica Jones
Mike Colter as Luke Cage
David Tennant as Kilgrave (AKA Purple Man)

https://youtu.be/nWHUjuJ8zxE

Looks like it could be as good as Daredevil. Purple Man is one of the most menacing villains in Marvel, and Jones' origin story is extremely twisted and dark, which the show looks like it might take on pretty thoroughly



10/23/2015 5:31:04 PM

Money_Jones
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Bttt - available on Friday, pretty excited for it, hopefully it can live up to the awesome level they started with Dare Devil

11/18/2015 7:32:32 AM

Exiled
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I, too, am excited. I won't have a good binge weekend until December though...so it'll have to wait

11/18/2015 8:18:55 AM

DROD900
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I've got a thing for Kristen Ritter

11/18/2015 8:29:00 AM

Money_Jones
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3 episodes in, and it is fucking fantastic. Definitely much less action than Dare Devil, but still thouroughly entertaining. Even though I like her in a lot of stuff; I wasn't sure if Kristen Ritter could pull this off, but she's great.

11/20/2015 10:15:47 PM

omicron101
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Just finished the last episode. Really good but I enjoyed Daredevil more.

11/22/2015 9:17:51 PM

Sandman
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Even with the horrendous acting by the dude from mighty ducks?

11/22/2015 9:59:31 PM

BigMan157
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I also enjoyed daredevil more, but kilgrave is a far superior villain to kingpin

[Edited on November 22, 2015 at 10:23 PM. Reason : every worthwhile MCU villain has daddy issues though]

11/22/2015 10:22:33 PM

BlackDog
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I am on episode 3 and so far this has been surprisingly good, looking forward to watching the rest of the season.

11/23/2015 4:18:36 PM

Dynasty2004
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Will my wife enjoy this if she has no interest in Dare Devil?

11/23/2015 4:56:32 PM

grimx
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I haven't binge-watched this as much as daredevil, but I'm liking it all so far.

11/28/2015 1:14:10 PM

CapnObvious
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I just finished it. I liked it, but it is nowhere near as good as Daredevil and it has a lot of pacing, progression, and repetition issues. I will watch a second season, but I have no interest in rewatching the first.

Spoilers?:

The whole series is heavily centered around finding/catching Killgrave. Every few episodes they follow the pattern of find Killgrave, screw something up and let him get away, and then innocent people die. That got really tiring. There were a few sub-plots which mixed things up, but I wish the main plot would have been as strong and varied as those.

/Spoilers

11/28/2015 10:30:23 PM

jaZon
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Possible Spoilers






Trish's boyfriend was annoying as shit. At least that was more writing/directing rather than god awful acting like the Mighty Ducks guy in Daredevil.

11/28/2015 11:46:57 PM

CalledToArms
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it was ok. it was better at the beginning but seemed to drag on and get repetitive toward the end.

11/29/2015 3:51:10 PM

BiggzsIII
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...................................Possible Spoilers.....................................

Trish's BF possibly a villain future shows? I can see him really being a menace (or side villain) in future.

But I thought the show was intriguing and caught my interest once I realized it wasn't a "super hero" show. Luke and Kilgrave really helped to develop and push the show along.

11/29/2015 6:33:21 PM

CalledToArms
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I don't know if it was the writing or his acting or what, but I thought Will was one of the worst parts of this season.

[Edited on November 30, 2015 at 10:11 AM. Reason : ]

11/30/2015 10:10:22 AM

Exiled
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Really liked this, especially viewed as a departure from anything you'd typically think of from a Marvel production. Really reminded me of old school PI movies, which was the point obviously, but I appreciate how each Marvel entry seems to have a 'theme'.

David Tennant was awesome, and it was interesting to see how he started as this huge shadowy all-powerful threat (In Jessica's mind at least), but by the end of the show he's morphed into the whiny self-involved person that he really is. I thought it was cool to see Jessica slowly come to this realization.

Luke Cage was interesting, and I'm interested to see what they do with him for his own show.

It was definitely a slow-build though, which was a little hard to watch when you're going into something thinking of it as a 'comic book show'. Hopefully later seasons will sprinkle in a little more action, which the IGH story line definitely could.

It's hard to compare this to Daredevil. I found Daredevil more entertaining in the comic book sense, but the characters and story-telling really made Jessica Jones shine.

12/7/2015 7:57:36 AM

dzags18
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I wonder if the IGH storyline is going to wrap everything together. Luke Cage got his powers from them, the chemicals that spilled on Daredevil were from them, etc. Defenders could be them going after the big group of superpowered baddies.

12/9/2015 12:06:52 PM

Wraith
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Finally got around to watching the season this week. Great show and I think David Tennant stole it in terms of acting. One thing though -- why didn't anyone just wear ear plugs? I know they discovered that Killgrave's power was a virus spread through the air and stuff, but if you can't hear him talking, you won't follow his orders.

12/27/2015 5:54:55 PM

Bweez
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^well, *spoilers*
















someone did that toward the end, with some Sleigh Bells




















i liked this so much more than daredevil it's insane

i've just never seen such a solid allegory for abuse cycles on TV, much less in a superhero thing.

daredevil was tired "Should I/Can I hurt people and still consider myself a hero???" stuff but tbf a lot of it worked well and it was pretty.

[Edited on December 27, 2015 at 9:46 PM. Reason : /.]

12/27/2015 9:45:36 PM

Lokken
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JJ was only slightly better than DD.

Tennant by far was the best thing out of both series though; too bad he is gone.

It stretched on a bit too long; I feel like it could have been 10 episodes. The cycle of 'nearly' getting him and having to find him again happened one too many times I think.

12/28/2015 9:16:16 AM

Wraith
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^^Yeah Trish had some Beats by Dre™ but those are big and clunky for any type of fast paced movement, and very easy for someone to snatch off your head if they sneak up behind you (which would be easier if you couldn't hear). Put some earplugs (without wires) in Luke Cage's ears (or even Simpson's) and he should have no trouble getting up to Killgrave.

12/30/2015 12:20:16 PM

BanjoMan
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I didn’t binge watch this one. I actually had the pleasure of watching it over a month or so together with my new housemate. I certainly and unfortunately think that given the enormous hype around it, that I was let down a bit, but I still really enjoyed watching it overall.

First and foremost, I loved the direction and cinematography that was used throughout this series. The action was filmed to such realistic perfection that at times I could just feel each dirty blow and slash that was flung out. It was filmed in a very similar style that was used masterfully by Nolan in the TDK and TDKR, and I thought that it paid off very well here. One of the problems with some of the action scenes in many recent films and/or series (even Marvel) is that at times they appear to be too choreographed, and come off as a dance as opposed to an actual life or death scenario. This, for example, was one of my only gripes with Marvel’s Daredevil.

I absolutely loved the look and feel of New York and Hell’s Kitchen in this series. The excellent use of lighting and set design created the feeling that the city itself was just more alive and happy at night as opposed to in the day. I could also go on and on about how they set up Jones’ flat as a functional alcoholic in direct juxtaposition to Luke’s. She clearly did not put any interest into her interior design: The walls are blandly painted with no trim or curtains, and there is no noticeable amount of art or pictures hanging from the wall. The only thing that she has in her house are empty bottles and her work, because when you get to that level of functional alcoholism, you don’t have any space in your mind to think about anything else.

I also loved the recurring theme of her glass insignia on the door being constantly replaced and smashed down by thugs and villains, as it basically serves as a metaphor that she can’t leave her past super hero days behind her.

In terms of what I didn’t like, I really did not fancy the fact that some episodes had a very perfunctory “soap opera twist” to them. This is where the camera cuts to a person alone and isolated that is finishing up a task that should end all conflict, then in walks a side villain with a devilish smirk on his/her face, cue the dissonant and unnerving music, and then bam, everything goes Kaput. I don’t know if they did that in anticipation of a large female audience or not, but I could have done without that and the very distracting love drama that builds between Jones and Luke.

My biggest problem with the movie, however, was the villain, and not because the performance was bad as it was certainly handled well, it is just that almost everything about it was lifted directly from the Joker in TDK. Everything from him torturing Jones by putting other’s lives in danger instead of directly killing people, to his overall quirky and light-hearted comedy as a response to other’s pain and loss. There were also several scenes, such as him coming to admire Jones and then having her beat him to a pulp for answers, that were just blatantly stolen from Nolan’s Joker.

Overall a great watch. I wish that they had put in more bewbs instead of so much blood.

1/14/2016 8:11:25 AM

Dynasty2004
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Quote :
"My biggest problem with the movie, however, was the villain, and not because the performance was bad as it was certainly handled well, it is just that almost everything about it was lifted directly from the Joker in TDK. Everything from him torturing Jones by putting other’s lives in danger instead of directly killing people, to his overall quirky and light-hearted comedy as a response to other’s pain and loss. There were also several scenes, such as him coming to admire Jones and then having her beat him to a pulp for answers, that were just blatantly stolen from Nolan’s Joker. "


or it was directly from Purple man or the comic that features them.

1/14/2016 8:19:45 AM

BanjoMan
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Complete set pieces and quotes were lifted/copied.

Plus that was just one gripe. Did you skip over the positives that I mentioned?

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 8:38 AM. Reason : h]

1/14/2016 8:25:51 AM

FroshKiller
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BanjoMan, you are a very odd duck. You are, like, on the cusp of having good taste and not having a shit opinion, and yet there is still a big chunk of dull shitheel DNA in your post.

Like, you are clearly sensitive in the right ways to art and storytelling, but it's like you have married that power to the stupid expectations of a complete moron. I wonder whether that's the result of, like, some kind of misalignment between you and the work or something in your nature or how you were raised or the people you surround yourself with or what.

I feel like you might be the smartest of your friends. Is that true?

I know this sounds insulting. But I'm only insulting the stupid part of you. It's like...if you were a werewolf, I would praise the man and condemn the wolf. I feel like there's some meat on the bone here, and I want to uplift you.

1/14/2016 8:53:43 AM

BanjoMan
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It is called writing. The part of it that makes it compelling is being able to support your position with argumentative facts. You going on a very banal, standard keyboard rant about me personally instead of what I actually wrote is a symptom that you either didn't fully understand what I was getting at, or you don't know how to write and convey an interesting argument.

Try coming up with some ideas of your own, and then we can talk about brain juice, ok?


[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 9:05 AM. Reason : dp]

1/14/2016 9:02:56 AM

FroshKiller
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That is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about.

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 9:07 AM. Reason : Post #49,600.]

1/14/2016 9:07:01 AM

rjrumfel
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Are we 100% sure that Nolan didn't lift his ideas for Ledger's Joker from The Purple Man?

1/14/2016 9:28:54 AM

CapnObvious
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I think Banjo is right. The 15 seconds of film from TDK where Batman beats the Joker for answers was not a small and minor event as every movie-goer has previously thought. It was a new and unique idea which all comics (and 50+ years of comics prior to it) have copied since.

1/14/2016 9:32:50 AM

BEU
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^^^grats

I loved the line this show walked. For the majority of the season, it rides a more realistic line than daredevil. Basically barely a 'superhero' show. For example, if Jessica jumps up to climb onto a balcony, they don't show it. They just show her climbing over the rail. No spectacle, its just what happens. Also saved on production costs.

You can tell this was made for a female audience with the assumption males who like comics/superheros are a default audience. Very heavy female tones and subjects that don't normally get such heavy focus in plot lines. Really gets into the head-space of females with these issues. Its refreshing.

And the end, the way it wraps up is exactly how a female would work it. Not with brute force, not with a giant action/chase scene. Manipulation and out thinking your opponent.

I mean, how many men can put themselves in Kilgrave's shoes. Not killers, but that one woman in your life you couldn't have. And essentially hes the result of never growing up being able to do and manipulate anything he wants. It shows you, if you could do anything you want, make any woman do what you wanted them to do, how horrifying it would become. Puts a spot light on the situation where a guy gets obsessed with what he cant have and showing the females perspective.

Great show. Right up there with Daredevil. Netflix is killing it in the quality department.

-----------------------------------

Joker rip off? I mean they both wear purple. There are only so many ways villains can be villains. They both killed people. I mean all villains share that for the most part. Oh, they both liked to hurt people around the person they wanted to hurt? Weird, its not unique to the joker or any psycho. All these things are common ways to manipulate. It never reminded me of the Joker. Seems like its hating to hate. To find something to pick at.


[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 9:48 AM. Reason : fgnb]

1/14/2016 9:46:29 AM

Money_Jones
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Yeah, I can't get on board with Banjo's Joker comparison at all either. They are such completely different types of villains, Kilgrave is a scared narcissists, the joker was an insane anarchist. A couple of tactics they used are superficially similar, but to say "almost everything about it was lifted directly from the Joker in TDK" it seems like A gross mischaracterization

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 10:03 AM. Reason : $$$]

1/14/2016 9:54:29 AM

BanjoMan
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Well, that escalated quickly. I just went out to pick up my son from Kindergarten and came back to see some fancy debatin’ going on.

Here is the thing; the comparisons between Marvel’s Purple Man and TDK’s Joker are so numerous that I really don’t see how you can convincingly argue against it. There are even direct quotes referencing this in Jessica Jones such as “whatever doesn’t kill you simply makes you stranger” that are lifted out of TDK (there are at least two more that I caught). In any film or series that is crafted with such care and precision as Jessica Jones, things like that aren’t accidents, they are nods from one director/screenwriter to another. And that is fine, there is nothing wrong with it. There is always going to be a trail of influences from one film to another, especially between the Marvel and DC universes (I could talk more about this and reference Daredevil and Batman).

But let’s just face it: They are basically the same character. As villains they are a bit rare, because both have no interest at all in money and/or power. They are solely motivated by their struggle with the main hero as they try to make themselves feel more complete by challenging them. This means that as villains, they cannot be bought or bargained with to any degree. Also, and most importantly, they rarely ever directly cause any personal harm to anybody. They merely put people in harm’s way and leave it up to the prowess of the hero to not let harm come to the victims. This is the reason that in both films, at one point or another, both villains say some variation of the line “I didn’t kill those people, you did” because that is there method of persuasive torture against the main hero.

All of that is fine and dandy, as there will always be an orgy of influences in movies and such. The issue that I had, as stated in my post, is that many aspects of the filmmaking and development of the villain were directly copied from TDK. This includes the prison beat-down scene, as that part had no real tension or suspense at all because I immediately recognized that they were just using that situation to demonstrate how Kilgrave wasn’t controlling Jones with his powers, but with his mental drive and tactical strategy. The powers were just a medium. They even have Jones spit all of this out in the form of exposition at the end of the episode, which to me just seemed like lazy writing.

The other problem is that the story arc of Kilgrave is, IMO, too similar to the TDK Joker and not done as well. Both go from torturing the hero, to admiring the hero, to then torturing them again at the finale. I just thought that the transition between these different stages was a bit abrupt and sudden in Jones, and even after hearing the explanation from Kilgrave about it (again, lots of exposition there), it still didn’t completely add up. Whereas these transitions were pretty seamless in TDK.

That’s it really. Aside from that it was amazing. Not enough bewbs though.

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 12:42 PM. Reason : dp]

1/14/2016 12:36:45 PM

Noen
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^No. Just, no. The actions of the Joker and Purple Man are on the surface very similar, but they have completely different origins, character journeys, motivations and relationships with the protagonists.

They are similar in the way that a Saturday Night Live spoof is the same as the original scene they build from.

1/14/2016 1:05:53 PM

FroshKiller
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Are my words getting through to you yet, BanjoMan? Is this orgy of evidence helping?

1/14/2016 1:11:34 PM

BigMan157
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batman and the punisher are the same person

1/14/2016 1:17:38 PM

rjrumfel
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The only thing that I personally didn't like about the series, and I haven't read the comic so I don't know if the comic is the same, but I wished they hadn't tried to explain to the audience how Kilgrave's mind control works.

This is almost as bad as Lucas giving us Midichlorians (sp?) as an explanation for the Force.

As an audience, we know that the Marvel universe has aliens, indestructible metal suits, indestructible green men, lightning controlling hammer wielding gods, and indestructible flying gem encrusted robots. I can handle some guy just being able to control minds.

Other than that, I enjoyed the slower-than-Daredevil pace, the subject matter and it makes me look forward to the movie that will include all these cats working together.

1/14/2016 1:36:58 PM

Dynasty2004
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Everyone origin is explained in the comics, i understand why they tried to stay faithful to the comics in this instance.


Banjo has a serious hard on for TDK

1/14/2016 1:41:56 PM

Exiled
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^^ They did explain, to a degree. Killgrave is basically a walking virus, he infects everyone around him (within a range) and that infection causes the impulses to obey his commands.

1/14/2016 1:44:16 PM

Exiled
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^nvm, I kan't reed gud.

1/14/2016 2:28:45 PM

BanjoMan
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Quote :
" The actions of the Joker and Purple Man are on the surface very similar, but they have completely different origins, character journeys, motivations and relationships with the protagonists."


I don't think that you guys learned how to write while you were at State. Normally, for a statement to have any credibility at all you have to actually support it. The only support that you have working in your favor is that somewhere between 5 to 10 users on an internet message board have decided to agree with you. But, in reality you still have made zero convincing arguments that actually make sense, whereas I have conveniently laid out quite a few.

For one, the Joker's origins in TDK are never fully explained, as the man himself gives three different and entirely unrelated accounts to his creation as a criminal. In a way, the same goes for Kilgrave. I mean sure, you realize that his parents performed experiments on him and think that that wraps everything up with a bow, but then you later learned that they actually were trying to save his life. It is never really made clear as to why he came to hate them and become a monster. And as said above, you have said absolutely nothing to convince me that their motivations and relationships with the protagonists were not the same, where I have laid out a fairly strong foundation of arguments to support that they are, especially in consideration to other villains in the Marvel and DC universes.

Basically, if some sort of English prof read my explanation, and then read yours, you would most definitely get the lower score by a very large margin. But since we are on the internet and everybody is sucking Kilgrave's dick, you think that you have won this battle.

I guess that you guys just stuck with the engineering program and said fuck it when it came to writing classes.

1/14/2016 3:31:06 PM

Exiled
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So, like Joker we don't know Kilgrave's history...except we exactly know his history?

The Joker is a psychotic mastermind and a terrifying agent of chaos. Kilgrave, on the other hand is ultimately a whiny self-involved little man with a power he uses to devastating effect only to benefit himself. The point of the show is that Jessica is terrified of him, and that's what lends the audience our awe of him. By the end of the series though, Jessica has mostly overcome her fear of him to see him as the pathetic little man that he is.

I don't even see a mirror of the beating scene you keep mentioning. Joker takes the beating by Batman and laughed his way through it since he always had the upper hand (knowing Batman would never kill him, and he's already arranged his own escape). Kilgrave allows himself to be beaten to make himself appear to be a victim in hopes the onlookers will weaken their resolve and underestimate him enough to free him.

So aside from them both wearing purple and being a 'big bad' I don't see a lot of correlation.

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 4:00 PM. Reason : I CAN read!]

1/14/2016 3:46:54 PM

BanjoMan
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The Joker is also whiny, and Kilgrave is also a mastermind. Hello? The reason that they could not grab kilgrave in their first attempt is because he had anticipated their move, hired a security team that was not under his control and then put a tracker in his pocket. That is called outsmarting your opponent.

The point of both beating scenes is to show that the villain had all of the control because he knew the weaknesses of the heroes and could push at all the correct buttons. They even said this in the actual episode. And you are conveniently ignoring that that scene was shot in an incredibly identical way as the beating scene in TDK. The hero has a dear friend in jeopardy, has to get something out of the main villain, goes into a locked cell to beat it out of them, and the villain refuses to give them what they want because they realize that they are still in control of the situation. Aside from killing kilgrave by keeping him in that cell forever, there is absolutely nothing that she can do because she has nothing on him.


[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 4:02 PM. Reason : a]

1/14/2016 3:59:47 PM

Exiled
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Hiring muscle wasn't particularly mastermind-y. It was knowing his limitations and that Jessica would be after him.

Kilgrave never had control or the upper hand in his capture. He was playing an angle in a hope to escape. Sure, he knew which of Jessica's buttons to push, but that didn't make him in control. Joker had known his arrest was probable and had put in place measures to make sure he'd be out when it suited him, and had the added bonus of torturing Batman while he was in there.

1/14/2016 4:06:15 PM

BanjoMan
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Quote :
"Hiring muscle wasn't particularly mastermind-y. "


That depends on your definition of a mastermind. In TDK, they referred to the joker as a mastermind because he was always one step ahead. The exact same can be said for kilgrave and his capture. Everything was anticipated and planned out to excruciating detail.

Quote :
"So aside from them both wearing purple and being a 'big bad' I don't see a lot of correlation."


Maybe you did not read this part.

Quote :
"Here is the thing; the comparisons between Marvel’s Purple Man and TDK’s Joker are so numerous that I really don’t see how you can convincingly argue against it. There are even direct quotes referencing this in Jessica Jones such as “whatever doesn’t kill you simply makes you stranger” that are lifted out of TDK (there are at least two more that I caught). In any film or series that is crafted with such care and precision as Jessica Jones, things like that aren’t accidents, they are nods from one director/screenwriter to another. And that is fine, there is nothing wrong with it. There is always going to be a trail of influences from one film to another, especially between the Marvel and DC universes (I could talk more about this and reference Daredevil and Batman).

But let’s just face it: They are basically the same character. As villains they are a bit rare, because both have no interest at all in money and/or power. They are solely motivated by their struggle with the main hero as they try to make themselves feel more complete by challenging them. This means that as villains, they cannot be bought or bargained with to any degree. Also, and most importantly, they rarely ever directly cause any personal harm to anybody. They merely put people in harm’s way and leave it up to the prowess of the hero to not let harm come to the victims. This is the reason that in both films, at one point or another, both villains say some variation of the line “I didn’t kill those people, you did” because that is there method of persuasive torture against the main hero.
"


How exactly is anything in that second paragraph not reasonable? What can you convincingly say to knock that down?

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 4:13 PM. Reason : j]

1/14/2016 4:09:12 PM

rjrumfel
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Accusing some of the people in this thread of not being able to write is like accusing a Chicago cop of being honest.

1/14/2016 4:17:45 PM

Exiled
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Quote :
"As villains they are a bit rare, because both have no interest at all in money and/or power. They are solely motivated by their struggle with the main hero as they try to make themselves feel more complete by challenging them. This means that as villains, they cannot be bought or bargained with to any degree. Also, and most importantly, they rarely ever directly cause any personal harm to anybody. They merely put people in harm’s way and leave it up to the prowess of the hero to not let harm come to the victims."


This is dumb:

- Kilgrave is ONLY interested in money and power. The whole last 3-4 episodes he's only interested in using his father's research to augment his power. He uses his power to get anything he wants from anyone...including fancy residences, top self dining and clothes, and women (essentially money).
- Kilgrave is solely motivated by getting what he wants when he wants it. Jessica being first and foremost until she becomes too troublesome to deal with and then he tries to either overpower her (by augmenting himself) or flat out running from her.
- Joker harms plenty of people himself, or are you forgetting pencil-through-the-eye-guy...or when he uses a bazooka to blow up police vehicles...or when he kills police to hijack their cars...or killing the other gang leaders to take power...or the other robbers in the opening scene.

1/14/2016 4:23:59 PM

BanjoMan
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I'm not trying to piss anybody off. Honestly, I have been going out to the bar and drinking fairly heavily every night since my wife and I divorced, and I am trying hard to break that trend and thought that hanging around on tww would pass some time.

It is not actually divorcing her that hurts, it is the fact that she just randomly decided to do it while I was unemployed, did not have a place to live, and only have about two months left on my visa at which point I have to go back to the states and I will not see my son again for at least another year.

Drinking makes me forget that but I am trying to stop.

1/14/2016 4:25:07 PM

Dynasty2004
Bawls
4625 Posts
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^WUTTTT why does any of that matter in this discussion.


also Purple Man would kill Joker in a fight.

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 4:28 PM. Reason : a]

1/14/2016 4:27:34 PM

BanjoMan
All American
8927 Posts
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Quote :
"This is dumb:

- Kilgrave is ONLY interested in money and power. The whole last 3-4 episodes he's only interested in using his father's research to augment his power. He uses his power to get anything he wants from anyone...including fancy residences, top self dining and clothes, and women (essentially money)."


Lol at you bro, he does that in an attempt to become strong enough to control Jessica again. This is clearly stated in the film. He doesn't give a shit at all about crime or the police force in the city, he only cares about getting her back. He states several times that he does the high-browed dinning because he is actually trying to do nice things for her. If you think that is legit then I am checking out of amateur night. Maybe somebody like Grumpy will join in to give me an actual challenge.

Quote :
" Joker harms plenty of people himself, or are you forgetting pencil-through-the-eye-guy...or when he uses a bazooka to blow up police vehicles...or when he kills police to hijack their cars...or killing the other gang leaders to take power...or the other robbers in the opening scene."


They both do this at times when it is necessary, but it is clearly not their main device. Compare how the joker and kilgrave kill people to how Bane and Fisk do it. That there is the norm for a villain.

[Edited on January 14, 2016 at 4:31 PM. Reason : dp]

1/14/2016 4:29:19 PM

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