Let's take bets now

1. Debates happen as normal
2. Biden refuses to debate Trump
3. Trump refuses to debate Biden
4. They both refuse to debate, and blame each other for it.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 1:02 PM. Reason : leaning toward 4 myself]

3/4/2020 1:02:05 PM

more like they dont debate because democrats immediately hide biden from sight the way they should have hillary.

3/4/2020 1:03:54 PM

Why would either candidate refuse to debate?

There is no way Trump will refuse to debate. It would show him as weak and cowardly, which he def. does not want to convey.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 1:04 PM. Reason : 1]

3/4/2020 1:03:56 PM

Quote :

"our American proclivity to cling to traditions and ignore the success of other highly developed nations who figured out progressive policies decades ago."

Most Americans don't want to be taxed to death. The liberal pockets of CA are cool with that. But most of America isn't. Has little to do with poor education.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2020 1:06:24 PM

I mean, most Americans in the lower and middle class don’t want to be taxed to death, that’s obvious. But it’s inexcusable for a company like Amazon to have an effective tax rate of 1.2%. Corporate tax and regulatory law is a mess.

To answer someone’s question, Trump would troll his own mother. I literally have zero cares about what he might or might not do in a general election. He’s an asshole and he’ll be an asshole if it’s Biden, Bernie, Warren or me running.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 1:35 PM. Reason : C]

3/4/2020 1:34:41 PM

^^Interestingly enough, people in MA overwhelmingly favor government sponsored healthcare, yet they were perfectly cool with going with Biden over BOTH Bernie and Warren, and they pay crazy high taxes just like CA.Funny how in CA, Bernie is so far ahead of Biden if you think about it. Perhaps you're oversimplifying the separate issues of taxes and progressive policies, because while they can be interrelated, voters behave irrationally for all sorts of reasons. Some predictable, while others are not.

Again, it's a cultural thing. You have an entire generation of people who grew up fearing communism who would rather vote for a capitalist, fascist jerk like Trump, than a self proclaimed political revolutionary socialist who stokes fears about Castro. Bernie's reluctance to edit his message is his own fault.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 1:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2020 1:41:31 PM

Quote :

" Most Americans don't want to be taxed to death"

calm down, Grover Norquist

3/4/2020 1:49:00 PM

Neither Bernie, nor Warren, would hurt the pockets of middle class households. Their policies are a huge net benefit. Why are we failing to get this point across?

3/4/2020 2:01:05 PM

Republicans lean into Biden probe as he surges in Democratic primary
Sen. Ron Johnson says he'll soon release a report on Hunter Biden’s ties to the Ukrainian gas company, Burisma.

Quote :

"Just hours after Joe Biden surged to the top of the Democratic presidential pack, Senate Republicans announced a new phase of their investigation targeting the former vice president and his son Hunter. Senate Homeland Security Committee Chairman Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) told reporters on Wednesday that he is likely to release an interim report within one to two months on his panel’s probe of Hunter Biden’s ties to a Ukrainian gas company, Burisma."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/04/joe-biden-probe-2020-election-120924

3/4/2020 2:25:23 PM

^^Because they're socialist! If they're elected, we'll be eating dogs and zoo animals and paying $10 for a loaf of a bread and a roll of toilet paper. And if you make over $29,000 a year, they'll tax you 52%! At least that's what some of my family members are trying to tell me via FB.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2020 2:29:37 PM

democrats only freak out about taxes and deficit spending when someone is challenging the status quo

3/4/2020 2:33:48 PM

Lolololol....he's gonna lose and democrats will blame the left.....again.


Instead of having substantive discussions about healthcare, education, and workers protections, we're going to get boring accusations about Russia and Ukraine. Fuck

Oh well....at least we'll get some bizarre stories about Corn Pop and getting arrested in South Africa..we're so screwed.

3/4/2020 2:34:30 PM

Quote :

"even if we go with your logic 100%, it tells us that Warren endorsing Bernie would have swayed undecideds his way as well, because he also had momentum. He was projected to win most of the states in Super Tuesday before the Pete/Amy endorsements happened. Also Pete voters were an even split before the endorsement. They all went to Biden. Your argument is flawed. https://morningconsult.com/2020/03/01/pete-buttigieg-second-choice-polling/"

You're missing a lot. I mentioned earlier that Warren endorsing Bernie would have shifted some undecided votes his way, so your statement isn't a revelation, it's a rehash of a supporting point for my argument. I stated Bernie would have captured some but likely not the same breadth since the endorsement noise directed toward those voters would have still been overwhelmingly about Biden. Therefore, her endorsement would have shifted some but not enough to fault her for staying in.

I'm likewise confused why you connect that comment with the fact Bernie was projected to win several other states beforehand. Yes, he was, but projections are just that, projections. Many of those projections were way way way closer than the 2016 election projections.

And not all the Pete people went to Biden. That's the most flawed or your entire regurgitation.

3/4/2020 2:36:57 PM

Quote :

"Neither Bernie, nor Warren, would hurt the pockets of middle class households. Their policies are a huge net benefit. Why are we failing to get this point across?"

Your own candidate has admitted that his plan would increase taxes on the middle class (though not detailed how much the increase would be)

Quote :

"“Obviously, all of the 180 million people who have private insurance are not going to pay less. It’s impossible to have an ‘everybody wins’ scenario here. The plan is by design incredibly disruptive. As a result, you create enormous winners and losers.” "

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/will-medicare-for-all-hurt-the-middle-class-elizabeth-warren-and-bernie-sanders-struggle-with-questions-about-its-impact/2019/10/05/a645fb3e-dbdb-11e9-ac63-3016711543fe_story.html

And his assertion that it would be a "net benefit" has also been roundly found to be untrue.

Quote :

"Sanders said that multiple studies show that under Medicare for All "average middle-class families will save $3,000 every year." The studies don’t back him up."

Source: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/22/bernie-sanders/do-studies-show-middle-class-families-would-save-3/

Quote :

"Because they're socialist! If they're elected, we'll be eating dogs and zoo animals and paying $10 for a loaf of a bread and a roll of toilet paper."

History can confirm.



[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 2:49 PM. Reason : 1]

3/4/2020 2:48:48 PM

very serious people like HCH would absolutely support M4A except darn-it, they read an article that said it might cost them more so oh well

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 2:55 PM. Reason : [/i]]

3/4/2020 2:54:57 PM

Taxes go up

Premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and medical bankruptcies disappear

Vision, dental, and mental get bundled into your plan

Net win for everyone but rich, who will pay slightly more

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 3:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2020 3:01:37 PM

Quote :

" Instead of having substantive discussions about healthcare, education, and workers protections, we're going to get boring accusations about Russia and Ukraine. Fuck"

Yeah, man. If Bernie wins I’m sure Trump will stick to substantive policy decisions. Yep. That’s the ticket.

You can’t be serious.

Making ANY decisions on what Trump and the GOP will do is a fools errand. They will throw shit at the wall until something sticks whether it’s me, you, Bernie, Warren or Biden running.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 3:15 PM. Reason : C]

3/4/2020 3:14:43 PM

Quote :

"History can confirm."

lol, is that you, uncle?

3/4/2020 3:35:05 PM

The more I speak to Bernie supporters and the more I sense feeling the Bern is the same as maga. It's a largely emotional philosophy built on populism and assigns its subscribers direct categories of people to distrust and blame for all the failures and shortcomings they see in their lives.

Facts, numbers, inconsistencies with past actions, etc don't matter to either group because, much like with any religion, there is no way to cross that emotional barrier without forcing the person to reevaluate that which is core to them.

3/4/2020 3:41:17 PM

Quote :

"- Bernie not being able to connect with African-American voters"

This is a demonstrably false narrative that only works if you racistly group african americans into a monolith of old South Carolinians. The media knows how to divide white people amongst age, regional, and socioeconomic differences but somehow conservative evangelical elderly blacks represent the entirety of african americans.

Quote :

"Yeah? So you think how some white voters in Iowa was going to effect the vote of some black voters in S.C.? Bernie had 4 years to build an AA base in the south. He didn't. This is on him."

Asking him to build a base amongst the most conservative subset of the population is not only unnecessary, its unreasonable. Bernie losing in the South was not a factor. Losing Minnesota and Massachussetts was the issue.

Quote :

"I like his chances better than Bernie, given his ability to energize black voters and old people."

You are reading this incorrectly unless you think Biden has a chance to win South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, or Oklahoma in the general. Otherwise, this energy of these types of black voters is pointless. Trump should dominate all of those deep red states and that energy will only translate to more complaining about the electoral college in the event of Trump losing the popular vote.

This entire primary really should be about the swing states. The strongest candidate is the candidate who can do best in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. If Bernie tanks those states, I will admit he didn't do enough to expand his base.

Results from states like South Carolina and Alabama need to be completely ignored.

3/4/2020 3:45:52 PM

One side wants to raise the base conditions of our social safety net to alleviate the burden of working people.

The other side wants to use the power of the government to install a white-ethno-state.

If you can't see the difference between these two philosophies then you are fundamentally broken as a thinking being.

3/4/2020 3:47:58 PM

Quote :

"Results from states like South Carolina and Alabama need to be completely ignored."

And states like MA/TX/VA/NC/MN shouldn't?

Give it up, Bernie Brah

3/4/2020 3:52:57 PM

Most Biden supporters I think would hold their nose and vote for Sanders in November. Hopefully his supporters will do the same if Biden is the nominee.

3/4/2020 4:01:11 PM

You listed important states. We are reflecting on why we lost those States. We led minnesota, Texas, and Massachusetts until this week when the moderates coalesced around the candidate best positioned and the progressives remained divided. It was time for her to step down Saturday at the latest and she crossed the red line by staying in. Elizabeth Warren and her voters directly caused Biden to win those three states. There is literally nothing else that can be blamed for those outcomes.

Virginia and North Carolina rightfully belong to Biden. He represents those states pretty well but not as well as Trump, who will carry both in the general. We could reflect on things Bernie could have done to perform better in those states but they involve preserving the 2nd, curbing immigration, and reducing government funding for clinics that perform abortions.

3/4/2020 4:01:19 PM

Quote :

"Interestingly enough, people in MA overwhelmingly favor government sponsored healthcare, yet they were perfectly cool with going with Biden over BOTH Bernie and Warren, and they pay crazy high taxes just like CA.Funny how in CA, Bernie is so far ahead of Biden if you think about it. Perhaps you're oversimplifying the separate issues of taxes and progressive policies, because while they can be interrelated, voters behave irrationally for all sorts of reasons. Some predictable, while others are not."

Fair point.

3/4/2020 4:04:01 PM

Quote :

" Yeah, man. If Bernie wins I’m sure Trump will stick to substantive policy decisions. Yep. That’s the ticket. You can’t be serious. Making ANY decisions on what Trump and the GOP will do is a fools errand. They will throw shit at the wall until something sticks whether it’s me, you, Bernie, Warren or Biden running."

You completely missed my point. If Biden wins, Medicare for all, college education, and workers rights like minimum wage are taken off the table. Gone. Eradicated. Wiped out. No longer a policy position. No longer a part of the political discourse.

Instead, the media circus and debates are only about Russia and Ukraine, and conversations about "decency and decorum"

Of course Trump wouldn't want to talk policy with Bernie. But with Biden, he won't even have to. Bernie would still stay on message on the campaign trail. But with Biden, those issues evaporate completely.

3/4/2020 4:04:59 PM

^ fair. I misunderstood you.

Quote :

" Virginia and North Carolina rightfully belong to Biden. He represents those states pretty well but not as well as Trump, who will carry both in the general."

The fuck? Virginia. Earl is a parody.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:08 PM. Reason : Earl is living blissfully in 1992 Virginia]

3/4/2020 4:07:58 PM

I just fucked up and was thinking about south carolina or something. Made a mistake. I guess that makes me EARL

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:14 PM. Reason : VIRGINIA: THE HOME OF THE ESTABLISHMENT AND DEEP STATE. LITERALLY]

3/4/2020 4:14:10 PM

Quote :

"He represents those states pretty well but not as well as Trump, who will carry both in the generals well as Trump, who will carry both in the general"

LMAO. NC is probably a coin toss, but VA? Shows how little you actually follow national politics...

Quote :

"Most Biden supporters I think would hold their nose and vote for Sanders in November. Hopefully his supporters will do the same if Biden is the nominee. "

Don't fucking count on it. In many exit polls, roughly 30% of Sanders supporters have already said they won't automatically support another Dem nominee. Judging by the current anger and blame game his most annoying/vocal supporters are playing, I wouldn't expect Sanders' fervent supporters to do anything other than sit home or vote in protest, because, 2016.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:16 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2020 4:14:18 PM

What if I told you Russia is still going to have access to the internet in November? If they make a few negative posts, it will, according to demlogic, elevate Trump to winning again. Thats the part no democrats see coming. Would that make NC less of a coin toss?

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:18 PM. Reason : demlogic lol]

3/4/2020 4:17:24 PM

You do realize that plenty of Sanders supporters fell for Russian bot propaganda in 2016, which is why didn't they turn up to vote.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 4:27 PM. Reason : or voted for Stein/Johnson]

3/4/2020 4:18:11 PM

Damn, is that true?

Crazy. Russia is apparently better at motivating Democrats to get out and vote more than actual Democratic Party.

gg, Rooskies

3/4/2020 4:22:04 PM

Quote :

"Russian bot propaganda in 2016, which is why didn't they turn up to vote"

maybe it had something to do clinton being uninspiring and choosing an even more uninspiring running mate

3/4/2020 4:32:13 PM

From what was documented in the report, they used a lot of lies to try and make the right angry about voter fraud to riot when HRC won the election.
https://www.wired.com/story/russia-ira-propaganda-senate-report/

They tweeted things at the left that were mostly true and already being shared amongst the left anyway. 1700 tweets with simple memes like "black students don't trust hillary" "don't vote for opressors(Trump and hillary)", "Vote Jill Stein" and "I won't vote for corrupt".

Sanders supporters didn't need Russian tweets to find out about BLM sentiment, election boycotts, or other common leftist views that were in the posts highlighted in the report.

The idea that Sanders supporters would've significantly fallen in line without a few Russian tweets is preposterous and you have to be completely out of touch and completely sheltered from real leftists to believe any of that. You'd also have to think I'm not a real person some sort of "parody" of someone else so theres that.

3/4/2020 4:34:52 PM

Dtownral, for delegates tracker thegreenpapers.com is pretty much the best I've seen

3/4/2020 7:58:23 PM

Quote :

"Neither Bernie, nor Warren, would hurt the pockets of middle class households. Their policies are a huge net benefit. Why are we failing to get this point across?"

No they aren't. Why would you want to tax yourself to death? Why would you want to pay college tuition forever even if you never went to college? A $15 minimum wage doesn't do anything except increase costs and push automation ahead quicker. Higher taxes doesn't make for a business friendly environment. People have to get past wage envy and do something for themselves. No government program is going to raise someone a social class. Fast food workers are always going to be poor and people with STEM degrees are always going to do well for themselves.

3/4/2020 8:44:49 PM

Making fast food workers rich isn't the goal.

Also, you're one myopic motherfucker.

3/4/2020 8:56:15 PM

After Warren said Bernie said a woman couldn’t beat Trump, how could she support him?

3/4/2020 9:07:09 PM

Sanders' best county in N.C. was Watauga (Boone) with 47%. His next best was Buncombe (Asheville). Those 2 and 2 other mountain counties on the Tennessee border were the only ones he won in the state.

3/4/2020 9:14:24 PM

^^^I know that, but like I said, increased minimum wage will just make automation move ahead quicker and make everything more expensive. If the guys in the wash pit at a car dealer get a bump to $15 hr then all of those techs with experience that are getting about $15 will require a pay increase to say $20 hr which means the guys that have 10+ years experience who are getting $20 hr now will require a pay increase which means the cost per labor hr charged to the customer will have to go up to cover the higher wages. That means all of those Burger King employees will now have to pay more for car service and auto parts which means that move from about $10 hr to $15 hr doesn't gain you anything. You still end up not having enough money to pay for repairs. They may not even have a job though because they will be replaced with computers like what you see at Sheetz. Also, the government can't afford to cover the cost of MFA. It costs too much. Taking 99% of the Walton's money still won't cover it.



[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 9:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2020 9:15:54 PM

Sanders' best county in N.C. was Watauga (Boone) with 47%. His next best was Buncombe (Asheville). Those 2 and 2 other mountain counties on the Tennessee border were the only ones he won in the state.

Some county results:

Mecklenburg: Biden 44.8%, Sanders 24.3%, Bloomberg 13.8%, Warren 10.2%
Wake: Biden 40.6%, Sanders 26.0%, Warren 14.3%, Bloomberg 12.1%
Durham: Biden 36.2%, Sanders 26.9%, Warren 20.3%, Bloomberg 9.2%
Orange: Biden 29.3%, Sanders 28.5%, Warren 23.1%, Bloomberg 10.3%
Buncombe (Asheville): Sanders 37.6%, Biden 25.0%, Warren 17.1%, Bloomberg 7.9%
Cumberland (Fayetteville): Biden 54.5%, Sanders 20.5%, Bloomberg 13.4%, Warren 5.3%
New Hanover (Wilmington): Biden 36.8%, Sanders 27.1%, Bloomberg 15.4%, Warren 10.5%
Forsyth (Winston-Salem): Biden 42.7%, Sanders 25.5%, Bloomberg 14.0%, Warren 9.4%
Guilford (Greensboro): Biden 45.7%, Sanders 26.0%, Bloomberg 12.6%, Warren 9.1%
Pasquotank (Elizabeth City): Biden 56.6%, Sanders 15.4%, Bloomberg 14.8%, Warren 4.3%

3/4/2020 9:36:31 PM

Wages aren’t stagnant because people are just being lazy. Is crazy that Republicans have fooled ordinary people toBelieving this is the case just so millionaires and billionaires could have more money.

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 9:37 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2020 9:37:21 PM

Mongo posted this on the last page

Quote :

" 13% of eligable voters in the 18-29 age group voted last night"

Anybody got a source on that?

I’m not trying to call him out, it might be right. I’m. just curious is all. I’ve seen this number thrown around (but worded differently) so I’m just wondering where it’s from. And I’d like to see the other age ranges just for my own curiosity

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 9:40 PM. Reason : I’m also assuming that’s based on exit polls which may not be super accurate ]

3/4/2020 9:39:47 PM

Enjoyed the internet today gotta say.

Not sure what Sanders does from here. Next week will be Democrats Abroad (huge Sanders win), Idaho, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi (huge Biden win), North Dakota, and Washington State. What does he have to do to get the momentum back in his favor, take Michigan or Missouri? Sanders taking Washington I imagine is expected.

3/4/2020 9:44:43 PM

I imagine Sanders would focus on Michigan, as his economic analysis and consistent criticism of NAFTA would naturally make him popular with historic union town workers

3/4/2020 10:29:20 PM

https://youtu.be/crfezv6RD5E

New Bernie ads appear to be doing that.

-associate himself with Obama
-attack Bidens record on actual popular democratic programs
-show his historic support of the working class by voting against trade deals.

Will it be enough? Is it too late?

[Edited on March 4, 2020 at 11:21 PM. Reason : $]

3/4/2020 11:20:33 PM

Quote :

"But it’s inexcusable for a company like Amazon to have an effective tax rate of 1.2%. Corporate tax and regulatory law is a mess."

Isn't that just due to losses carried forward?

3/4/2020 11:50:58 PM

He also went out of his way to talk about how good a man joe biden is. I was so offended. TBH, Bernie's too nice of a guy to lead a revolution.

[Edited on March 5, 2020 at 1:01 AM. Reason : k]

[Edited on March 5, 2020 at 1:20 AM. Reason : he refuses to trash hillary refuses to trash biden refuses to ask warren out]

3/5/2020 1:01:01 AM

dms i shouldn't have posted that, I worded it incorrectly. It's from an NBC exit poll. They claim "13% of all voters on super Tuesday were between ages of 18-29."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bernie-sanders-needs-young-voters-on-super-tuesday-theyre-staying-home

3/5/2020 8:48:03 AM

Delegate Update (California, Colorado, and Texas numbers still in flux)

37.7% of all delegates have been handed out in the numbers below.

Biden 687 - 45.8% of total - 34.5% of the number necessary to win a majority at the Convention first ballot
Sanders 616 - 41.1% - 30.9%
Warren 82 - 5.5%
Bloomberg 78 - 5.2%
Buttigieg 27 - 1.8%
Klobuchar 7 - 0.5%
Gabbard 2 - 0.1%

Non-Biden/Non-Sanders 196 - 13.1% of total handed out, 4.9% of the 3979 delegates that will be at the Convention

Upcoming states next Tuesday, 365 delegates, 9.2% of the overall total:

Democrats Abroad 13
Michigan 125
Mississippi 36
Missouri 68
North Dakota 14
Idaho 20
Washington 89

3/5/2020 9:09:41 AM