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qntmfred
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got my 1st moderna dose today

4/8/2021 11:51:40 AM

justinh524
HumanSkinEggBaby
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Are we the same person?

I say yes.

4/8/2021 12:02:07 PM

qntmfred
retired
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that's one of the side effects of the vaccine.

4/8/2021 12:08:09 PM

TKE-Teg
All American
42990 Posts
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This morning at PNC Arena, J&J one shot.

4/8/2021 12:19:34 PM

TreeTwista10
Laugh, Think, Cry
142743 Posts
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got my first Pfizer shot

4/8/2021 1:12:25 PM

Jeepin4x4
Cam Time Steamroller
35456 Posts
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double vaxxed as us last Saturday.

4/8/2021 1:34:11 PM

fatcatt316
All American
3225 Posts
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NCCU has that one-hit J&J shot available now

4/8/2021 2:06:54 PM

beatsunc
All American
10518 Posts
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SNL:

https://youtu.be/ocJCAfFQgCQ

i think i'll wait untill its FDA approved, saw the j&j one sent 4 people to the hospital from the pnc site

4/8/2021 8:59:20 PM

justinh524
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get vaccinated you fucking dolt.

4/8/2021 10:27:54 PM

CaelNCSU
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Good idea ^

An unapproved unknown risk is better than a known 0.001% risk.

Everyone I know in their 50s or older is vaccinated.

[Edited on April 8, 2021 at 11:09 PM. Reason : Not killing grandma.]

4/8/2021 11:08:33 PM

justinh524
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I, too, hate science.

[Edited on April 8, 2021 at 11:14 PM. Reason : get vaccinated you fucking dolt.]

4/8/2021 11:14:14 PM

CaelNCSU
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I know nothing of risk. Please explain to me how a 40 year old who isn't obese needs the vaccine?

4/8/2021 11:18:37 PM

TreeTwista10
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agreed, i'm like, hey, i'm a healthy 40 year old, why do i need to wear a mask in your store

4/8/2021 11:46:15 PM

justinh524
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I agree, fuck everyone other than myself.

4/8/2021 11:52:45 PM

CaelNCSU
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I do wear a mask. There is some informed consent going on. If you're BMI 40 and not vaccinated, stay home for sure.

Everyone in my town at risk has the vaccine.

[Edited on April 8, 2021 at 11:53 PM. Reason : A]

4/8/2021 11:52:54 PM

TreeTwista10
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please explain how a 40 year old who isn't obese needs to wear a mask

4/9/2021 12:11:46 AM

CaelNCSU
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I could contract covid, then spread to a 60 year old who picks my avocados.

Couldn't live with myself. Avocados are life.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 1:55 AM. Reason : A ]

4/9/2021 1:54:10 AM

The Coz
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Your logic is invalid. Enough people with your mindset could prevent herd immunity. You're quoting risk figures, yet the risk of a severe complication from a vaccine is already WAY lower than the risk of a severe complication from contracting COVID, even for supposedly young(ish) and healthy people. So if you're actually making a decision based on the risk profile, you're making the wrong one. What is your "legitimate" reason not to get vaccinated, or are you just trolling?

Hundreds of millions have been vaccinated around the world. The vaccines have emergency use authorization because there's a global health emergency.

4/9/2021 7:09:31 AM

glassssssss
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Hey CaelNCSU, the head curriculum coordinator from our kids school died from covid...she was younger than me and had no pre-existing conditions.

4/9/2021 8:08:44 AM

TKE-Teg
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I'm in great health. Was never worried about getting sick from COVID. My greatest fear has been that I could unknowingly spread it to someone who does have health issues.

Felt fine after the J&J vaccine. Worked a full day then did 2 hours of yard work and 2 hours of interior painting. My arm wasn't even that sore around the shot site. Was worse with the flu vaccine.

I recommend getting vaccinated

4/9/2021 8:24:41 AM

CaelNCSU
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Quote :
"You're quoting risk figures, yet the risk of a severe complication from a vaccine is already WAY lower than the risk of a severe complication from contracting COVID"


I'd get the China version which is a standard vaccine, maybe the J&J. MRNA vaccines are new enough that errors in manufacturing, supply chain, or administration are totally unknown. When the FDA gives it an official stamp or it's been about a year I will consider an MRNA one.

Quote :
"Hey CaelNCSU, the head curriculum coordinator from our kids school died from covid...she was younger than me and had no pre-existing conditions."


Of everyone I know that had it: uncle and his wife, cousins, an employee, my boss and his entire family. None of them have had serious issues. Some of them are very old even. I only know of one fatal and it's third hand. That sucks.



[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 9:35 AM. Reason : A ]

4/9/2021 9:30:59 AM

The Coz
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That's the breaks, folks! Sucks for you if you're unlucky enough to die because of my ignorance and selfishness! 'Murrica!

4/9/2021 9:45:23 AM

CaelNCSU
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^ I take precautions you're using some media narrative the screens tell you to imagine. The olds I fly with all have the vaccine. I wear a mask and don't really go to populated areas. Bars still aren't open here. There is zero chance I could give someone covid or contract it.

To boot my relative risk of complications is like 15x higher than a kid. Which comes out to something like 0.0001 chance of complications. I've spent my entire adult life in highly risky hobbies that have a much higher chance of disfigurement and death. I'm comfortable with a 0.0001 chance. YMMV.

Also I said above I'd consider the J&J which is not an MRNA vaccine. If anything changes like my need to go to an office or I start eating the key lime pie at my favorite coffeeshop everyday then I'd get the vaccine. Otherwise I'll wait.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 10:05 AM. Reason : A ]

4/9/2021 10:03:33 AM

0EPII1
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Quote :
"Wildly unsurprised to see Opie reporting in as a vaccine sceptic"


A "vaccine sceptic" is someone who thinks vaccines don't work or probably don't work for the purpose they are designed for.

If that's your conclusion from my post, get some middle-school English comprehension lessons and go reread my post.

4/9/2021 10:14:51 AM

Geppetto
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Quote :
"Of everyone I know that had it: uncle and his wife, cousins, an employee, my boss and his entire family. None of them have had serious issues. Some of them are very old even. I only know of one fatal and it's third hand. That sucks"


My father in law thought this way. His in-laws had covid, all of which got pretty sick and even pneumonia but recovered. His wife got it a month later and had no real issues. His son got it a few months after that and had no issues.

He's not [old], 60, and he has zero pre-existing conditions and walked and ran regularly. A month ago he got it and he's been in the critical care ward since 3/16. His heart did stop once on 3/19 and he's only recently had intubation removed. His life will never be the same.

Everyone around you having it and it not being a big deal, doesn't mean it won't be for you. Even more importantly, it doesn't mean it won't be a big deal from someone who gets it from you.

Go get your JJ vaccine.

4/9/2021 10:39:22 AM

PaulISdead
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Opes childhood was characterized by a strict, attention withholding caregiver. They seek attention through drawing the victim in with debate quickly claiming authority, following with reprimand, and insult. These antisocial behaviors show a lack of self awareness, potentially through narrisistic traits.

4/9/2021 10:42:44 AM

afripino
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took my 2nd moderna 3/29 and went to vegas 3/30. took the ultimate gamble and won. LOL

luckily no side effects and had a great time.

4/9/2021 11:10:58 AM

The Coz
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Quote :
"To boot my relative risk of complications is like 15x higher than a kid. Which comes out to something like 0.0001 chance of complications. I've spent my entire adult life in highly risky hobbies that have a much higher chance of disfigurement and death. I'm comfortable with a 0.0001 chance. YMMV."

This is a self-defeating argument. If you're so comfortable with risk in your life, and your rationale is that the mRNA vaccines are too new and risky to take, I don't know what your actual point is. So take the very small risk and get the vaccine like so many millions of others, asshole. Any flavor will do. Beating this is also about reducing opportunity for replication and variant creation that may evade current protections. It's dead simple, and you're being obtuse.

4/9/2021 11:28:30 AM

rwoody
Save TWW
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He's just incapable of making internally consistent argument. He just knows how to throw out short controversial posts, once he has to defend his views for more than one sentence everything falls apart.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 11:51 AM. Reason : E]

4/9/2021 11:50:27 AM

justinh524
HumanSkinEggBaby
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Quote :
"Maybe people who aren't drunk driving should just stay home"

4/9/2021 11:55:58 AM

CaelNCSU
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Quote :
"This is a self-defeating argument. If you're so comfortable with risk in your life, and your rationale is that the mRNA vaccines are too new and risky to take, I don't know what your actual point is."


It's not that hard. Unknown risks always have heavier weight than known. Regular vaccines have been around for 150 years and given to billions of people. There is some minute risk sure, but its massively outweighed by the risk of say smallpox. All that is known.

It's like all the people using Tesla's autopilot because "machines are better drivers and humans are dumb". That may be true in the long term. In the short term you are going to get decapitated by a truck or burned to death when there is a bug.

The non approved status implies some things. Like if you have a reaction or even if the nurse giving it fucks something up you have no recourse. Even in a case of negligence they can just say, "not approved, you knew the risk".

4/9/2021 12:10:50 PM

The Coz
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But you're the one who throws caution to the wind and doesn't fear disfigurement and whatnot. What is it about a vaccine technology that hundreds of millions have now submitted to over a period of nearly a year with very few ill effects that stops you in your tracks? Particularly when weighed against the nearly 3 million of your fellow humans who have died as a direct result of this harmless virus. It's one thing not live your life in fear, but your attitude is careless and callous.

4/9/2021 12:17:13 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ the mRNA vaccines are only a few months old. If it really was a year I'd be more comfortable.

If they were burning bodies in the street I'd take a spiked anal suppository to get immunity--even if unapproved. Somewhere between what we have now with covid and smallpox is a gray area.

I don't throw caution to the wind. I meticulously trained and learned, analyzed accidents obsessively. Situations with bad conditions on a jump I walked down. In flying I didn't just do the basic training. I got my instrument and commercial ratings as well as did more advanced emergency training.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 12:27 PM. Reason : A]

4/9/2021 12:24:47 PM

The Coz
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Moderna clinical trials in humans began in March 2020. Those people got plenty of attention. That's more than a year by my clock. Pfizer timelines similar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/health/coronavirus-vaccine.html

4/9/2021 1:01:20 PM

CaelNCSU
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When a game like Call of Duty comes out. It's been tested by a fleet of testers for years. In the first hour of play after wide release the number of hours played outstrips anything done in testing by like many orders of magnitude. Tons of bugs and exploits they never considered are quickly reported. The perception is usually that the game was released too early. In reality you just can't account for all the variation in play or the hardware used--even in something tightly constrained like hardware.

A body is millions of times more complex. People with the same genetics have different diets, live in different environments. Different genes could be active in a cold region vs a hot--even in the same person. There is fuck all possibility you will hit all the edge cases in a controlled trial. They really try and do a bang up job. You just don't see the edge cases until millions and millions of people have had it. None of the current vaccines went through the normal trial process and is NOT approved by the FDA. If it were a normal vaccine for something as dangerous as small pox it wouldn't be a conversation or argument.

I am willing to EVEN get the mrna vaccine. If someone was like, 40 year olds have a 1% chance of death, I'd probably be like, totally worth it even unknown. If something changed in my behavior I'd also get the vaccine (office example etc).

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 1:57 PM. Reason : a]

4/9/2021 1:52:01 PM

Mr. Joshua
we want chilly willy
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Then I'm glad I got the good version of the vaccine before they nerfed the MP40 and made gameplay boring.

4/9/2021 2:45:06 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"Everyone I know in their 50s or older is vaccinated."


Are these the only human beings you ever interact with or even get near?

Quote :
"Everyone in my town at risk has the vaccine."


An outright lie. You do not know every individual in your town, let alone the medical histories of all of them.

Quote :
"Please explain to me how a 40 year old who isn't obese needs the vaccine?"


Non-obese 40 year olds die of COVID, get sick and take up hospital beds due to COVID, incubate COVID so it has an opportunity to generate fun new variants, and, of course, they give COVID to other people.

You're kind of a dipshit, so I don't really give a shit if you die, but I'd be pretty pissed off about the other three outcomes.

It's true that the most likely outcome is "none of the above," but this business of conveying the risk solely in terms of your chance of dying is dishonest and depraved.

4/9/2021 3:11:10 PM

synapse
play so hard
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a few months old lol clearly he's attempting to play a stupid person on TWW, because historically he has not been this stupid.

This is what aliases are for

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2021 3:12:01 PM

qntmfred
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I think there are some reasonable points to CaelNCSU's argument. COVID turned out to be most lethal to older populations. Certainly you take a risk as a younger person that if you do get COVID and your body doesn't already have immune response protection from a vaccine, you could end up being one of the unlucky ones to have severe reaction. That's your chance to take. Although the mRNA vaccines are new, the research for them has been around for decades. We are notoriously slow in this country to advance new medical technologies. I'm certainly not an expert in this field, so I have to be willing to trust the scientists and public health officials in this country and all over the world who are closely monitoring the effectiveness of these vaccines. I certainly trust them a lot more than all the weirdos on the internet who want to talk about "the government" using vaccines as a means to control the population. that's just crazy talk. but as with most things, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

4/9/2021 3:25:24 PM

The Coz
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Why do you keep bringing up smallpox? That was eliminated from humanity -- by vaccines.

4/9/2021 3:27:44 PM

CaelNCSU
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Quote :
"
Are these the only human beings you ever interact with or even get near?
"


Right now, yes. California has been pretty locked down. Other than going to the beach there isn't very much to do. Most of the places farther away (Vegas, Napa) are too sketch. Most of my immediate friend group got early vaccine access (flight instructors). Our office is closed, so my life is about 100% meet.google.com and shitposting here.

Quote :
"
Non-obese 40 year olds die of COVID, get sick and take up hospital beds due to COVID, incubate COVID so it has an opportunity to generate fun new variants, and, of course, they give COVID to other people.
"


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

So 15,000 out of ~40,000,000 in that cohort. If you take 31 million cases / 330M People that's about 10% that we know about (positive test). So 10% * 40,000,000 = 4,000,000. Of people that have had covid 15,000 / 4,000,000. If you assume two things: That 40 is actually less likely to have serious complications than 49 AND that the population is about 60% obese and the rate of deaths is uniform to the population (unlikely). then 60% * 15000 = 9000. 1,600,000 non obese covid infected. 6000 dead. 6000 / 1,600,000 = 0.375% chance of death. Probably about 3% chance of hospitalization.

Quote :
"Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection."

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

Could imply that the rate for non obese is as low as 0.07%. Washing your hands, wearing a mask, staying away from crowded venues, limiting exposure all lower that number.

Quote :
"

You're kind of a dipshit, so I don't really give a shit if you die, but I'd be pretty pissed off about the other three outcomes.
"


You always had a great demeanor and were fun to be around. I hope you're doing just great. Getting on Jeopardy is a feat--my only other friend that did that got his PhD at 22.

Quote :
"
It's true that the most likely outcome is "none of the above," but this business of conveying the risk solely in terms of your chance of dying is dishonest and deprave
"


I try to include hospitalizations usually by 10x the death.

Quote :
"Why do you keep bringing up smallpox? That was eliminated from humanity -- by vaccines.
"


Because there is a scale of danger factor relative to the unknown risk: Smallpox >>>> Covid in terms of risk. Note I said I'd take an untested anal suppository with spikes for smallpox. Smallpox was fatal and disfiguring to everyone--not just the elderly. If my neighbors were disfigured I'd take any kind of experiment. I've stated I'd likely take the J&J. But the risk of me and people I interact with is near enough to zero with precautions that I don't feel an UNAPPROVED vaccine is worth the risk.

What would make you not take the vaccine? I've given my criteria for taking the COVID vaccine:

J&J - Yes if risk factor increase, yes if exposed to the public
mRNA - Maybe if risk factor increases, Maybe if exposed to the public
AZ mRNA - Nah

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 4:00 PM. Reason : a]

4/9/2021 3:56:45 PM

GrumpyGOP
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Quote :
"COVID turned out to be most lethal to older populations. Certainly you take a risk as a younger person that if you do get COVID and your body doesn't already have immune response protection from a vaccine, you could end up being one of the unlucky ones to have severe reaction. That's your chance to take."


This is where it falls apart for me. Hyperbolic dismissal of his possible mortality aside, my issue with Cael here is that it's focused on his risk as a healthy young person. But there's more at play than that, and it's not just "his chance to take." If he goes to the hospital, that sucks for him, but it also sucks for anybody who might have needed that bed (or whatever other hospital resources he's using). And again, every person with COVID in their system is giving it a place to potentially mutate.

4/9/2021 4:26:14 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ I agree in part that there are countless people all over social media, "hur dur covid hoax". I will laugh at those people along with you. I even may support such measures as forced sterilization or something more extreme.

My retort to this is there is informed consent. We are adults, and society allows us to do all sorts of hyper risky things involving sex, skydiving, butt play, smoking, racing, guns, motorcycles and drinking. Some of these things have higher mortality rates than even the worst COVID cohorts.

I know my risk rate and what I'm comfortable--this is true for every other adult. I cannot force a COVID denier to wear a mask and not have tupperware parties inside. I do know not to attend one myself and that is the only thing I have agency over. If you know they are having a neo nazi rally down town, don't go. You can't stop a neonazi but you can stop yourself from getting hit by a hick's truck.

4/9/2021 4:38:40 PM

qntmfred
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America has always been a balance of individual rights and the common good. I'm sure that CaelNCSU is taking other reasonable precautions in his life toward the common good. There's plenty of room to have a dialogue that convinces others to lean toward the common good, but calling others a dipshit usually isn't super effective at changing peoples' minds. The data shows that facts aren't either, for that matter. Showing empathy for somebody else's point of view is much more effective.

Quote :
"I don't feel an UNAPPROVED vaccine is worth the risk"


I see this line a lot too, especially with the big scary "FDA UNAPPROVED" slant. FDA approval vs FDA emergency authorization are more or less just bureaucratic terms used to differentiate the level of paperwork and duration of clinical trials required. It's just risk management terminology, and people too often interpret it to mean that these vaccines are junk that will fuck up our DNA or something. And especially considering we have over a year of real world data now, and millions of vaccine recipients, we have a lot of data showing the safety and efficacy of these vaccines. Enough to trust, imo.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 5:01 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2021 4:38:49 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
" I'm sure that CaelNCSU is taking other reasonable precautions in his life toward the common good"


Kinda doubt it. He's vocally pissed that West LA isn't "fun" anymore because the same types of people that made South Florida and Texas a hot mess in terms of COVID are the same kinds of people who happen to be his neighbors/friends.

I'd feel bad for him, but he's part of the reason why so many people hate Californians.

4/9/2021 5:00:29 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ I'm pissed because of the business closures and the livelihood lost. That shit isn't going to recover over night--it takes years to build up the capital to open a small business. My favorite Japanese curry place and coffee shop closed. Think about all the actors that funded their careers on restaurants.

A coworker has had his catalytic stolen 3 times in four months. The latest time they aren't even available to be ordered and his car needs a smog check.

About a two thirds of the businesses on the promenade are gone for good. Shopping tourists aren't coming either so there is no way someone will take the risk to open back up even if you had the cash. Some of the businesses are like Banana Republic, but there are a ton of intermixed restaurants and other small businesses.

It's one thing to pay $4k to $5k for a 1000 sqft house with a small yard when you can walk places, go to the beach, have a nice dinner. It's another to be stuck inside with your SO, no AC in the summer talking over each other on calls. I

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 5:16 PM. Reason : a]

4/9/2021 5:10:00 PM

UJustWait84
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I mean that all sucks, but part of the reason why LA/SoCal have had such a worse time handling COVID is cultural-- the place is filled with entitled/selfish people, completely lacking any sense of self awareness, thinking that they're special and better than everyone else. There's plenty of people all over the country like that, so it's not just an LA only thing, but you sound like someone who's having a major fit of road rage sitting in a traffic jam. Hint: you're contributing to the very problem you're so upset about.



[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2021 5:15:02 PM

CaelNCSU
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Quote :
"I mean that all sucks, but part of the reason why LA/SoCal have had such a worse time handling COVID is cultural"


Mask compliance in West LA was about 100% while I was there. People even wear masks in parks, and I don't think I know anyone that would go indoor dining even though it just was allowed. Clearly people are, but it just seems like people are still weary of it.

The reason it's worse in LA is because rent is fucking $4000. Half your disposable income if you make $200K at a tech startup (most people don't). LA is filled with people doing shit jobs trying to make it. Most people have tons of roommates. The foot print of most stores is also really small, so a Trader Joes has 10x as many people as one further out.

Bay Area has more people that can hunker down. The industry in LA is way more diverse and requires people to be out and about to feed themselves.

[Edited on April 9, 2021 at 5:31 PM. Reason : a]

4/9/2021 5:30:20 PM

The Coz
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J&J is available. Go take it.

AstraZeneca is not an mRNA vaccine. It's based on a modified adenovirus.

Getting COVID doesn't lead to a binary outcome of either clearing it and living a normal life, or dying. Many people that have contracted COVID and lived are in a permanently altered state and will never enjoy the quality of life they had previously. Long-term effects of the VIRUS are still being understood and quantified. So I guess I'm a lot less concerned about the effects of a vetted vaccine than the disease itself. The onus is actually on healthy people to protect the vulnerable, and as multiple people have already pointed out to you, part of this is stopping the virus from replicating (regardless of the effects on any one individual) and creating variants that potentially have more severe effects and / or evade the current preventative tools. So to just sit on the sidelines when the vaccines approved for emergency use in the US are pretty demonstrably safe seems pretty lazy and irresponsible. They're also "free" to recipients. I mean, if there's some long-term effect from the vaccine that arises 10 years from now (pretty farcical based on all evidence to date), I guess we're all going down together, but this isn't "I Am Legend".

As for what it would take for me NOT to get the vaccine, that's a strange hypothetical since I've already had it and have no regrets, I guess if the best available vaccine had like a 5% rate of severe complications (or really anything exceeding the severe complications rate for the disease), I wouldn't take it, but of course if that were the case, it would not even be approved through EUA as an option.

4/9/2021 5:42:52 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
17965 Posts
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Quote :
"calling others a dipshit usually isn't super effective at changing peoples' minds"


Neither is anything said on TWW. Someone said a dipshit thing and I vented, because venting is something this site is good for.

Quote :
"My retort to this is there is informed consent. We are adults, and society allows us to do all sorts of hyper risky things involving sex, skydiving, butt play, smoking, racing, guns, motorcycles and drinking."


Most of which either (a) comes with no collateral risk (skydiving) or (b) legal requirements aimed at curtailing that risk. Society allows you to skydive because we recognize that your odds of landing on and killing somebody are far closer to zero than even the most conservative COVID death rates. Society allows you to drink yourself to death but punishes and scorns someone who drinks and drives. And so on.

4/9/2021 5:56:35 PM

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