https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/19/countries-keeping-coronavirus-bay-experts-watch-us-case-numbers-with-alarm/

Quote :

"In countries keeping the coronavirus at bay, experts watch U.S. case numbers with alarm By Rick Noack June 19, 2020 at 10:38 a.m. EDT As coronavirus cases surge in the U.S. South and West, health experts in countries with falling case numbers are watching with a growing sense of alarm and disbelief, with many wondering why virus-stricken U.S. states continue to reopen and why the advice of scientists is often ignored. “It really does feel like the U.S. has given up,” said Siouxsie Wiles, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand — a country that has confirmed only three new cases over the past three weeks and where citizens have now largely returned to their pre-coronavirus routines. “I can’t imagine what it must be like having to go to work knowing it’s unsafe,” Wiles said of the U.S.-wide economic reopening. “It’s hard to see how this ends. There are just going to be more and more people infected, and more and more deaths. It’s heartbreaking.” China’s actions over the past week stand in stark contrast to those of the United States. In the wake of a new cluster of more than 150 new cases that emerged in Beijing, authorities sealed off neighborhoods, launched a mass testing campaign and imposed travel restrictions. Meanwhile, President Trump maintains that the United States will not shut down a second time, although a surge in cases has persuaded governors in some states, including Arizona, to back off their opposition to mandatory face coverings in public. Commentators and experts in Europe, where cases have continued to decline, voiced concerns over the state of the U.S. response. A headline on the website of Germany’s public broadcaster read: “Has the U.S. given up its fight against coronavirus?” Switzerland’s conservative Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper concluded, “U.S. increasingly accepts rising covid-19 numbers.” “The only thing one can say with certainty: There’s nothing surprising about this development,” a journalist wrote in the paper, referring to crowded U.S. beaches and pools during Memorial Day weekend in May. Some European health experts fear that the rising U.S. caseloads are rooted in a White House response that has at times deviated from the conclusions of leading scientists. “Many scientists appeared to have reached an adequate assessment of the situation early on [in the United States], but this didn’t translate into a political action plan,” said Thomas Gerlinger, a professor of health sciences at the University of Bielefeld in Germany. For instance, it took a long time for the United States to ramp up testing capacity. Whereas the U.S. response to the crisis has at times appeared disconnected from American scientists’ publicly available findings, U.S. researchers’ conclusions informed the actions of foreign governments. “A large portion of [Germany’s] measures that proved effective was based on studies by leading U.S. research institutes,” said Karl Lauterbach, a Harvard-educated epidemiologist who is a member of the German parliament for the Social Democrats, who are part of the coalition government. Lauterbach advised the German parliament and the government during the pandemic. Despite its far older population, Germany has confirmed fewer than 9,000 coronavirus-linked deaths, compared with almost 120,000 in the United States. (Germany has about one-fourth of the United States’ population.) Lauterbach cited in particular the work of Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard University, whose research with colleagues recently said that forms of social distancing may have to remain in place into 2022. Lipsitch’s work, Lauterbach said, helped him to convince German Vice Chancellor Olaf Scholz that the pandemic will be “the new normal” for the time being, and it impacted German officials’ thinking on how long their strategy should be in place. Regarding the effectiveness of face masks, Lauterbach added, “we almost entirely relied on U.S. studies.” Germany was among the first major European countries to make face masks mandatory on public transport and in supermarkets. Lipsitch said Thursday that he was not previously aware of the impact of his research on German decision-making, but he added that he has spoken to representatives of several other foreign governments in recent weeks, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and officials or advisers from Canada, New Zealand and South Korea. Even though Lipsitch cautioned it was impossible for him to say how or if his conversations influenced foreign governments’ thinking, he credited the overall European response as “science-based and a sincere effort to find out what experts in the field believe is a range of possible scenarios and consequences of decisions.” Lipsitch said he presented some of his research to a White House group in the early stages of the U.S. outbreak but said the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic did not reflect his conclusions. “I think they have cherry-picked models that at each point looked the most rosy, and fundamentally not engaged with the magnitude of the problem,” he said. The White House has defended its approach as science-based. After a study released in March by Imperial College London predicted 510,000 deaths in Britain and 2.2?million in the United States if the pandemic remained fully uncontrolled, for instance, the Trump administration indicated that it was taking the research into account. “If we didn’t act quickly and smartly, we would have had, in my opinion and in the opinion of others, anywhere from 10 to 20 and maybe even 25 times the number of deaths,” Trump said two months later. But European researchers dispute that the U.S. government’s reliance on scientists to inform decision-making comes anywhere near the degree to which many European policymakers have relied on researchers. After consulting U.S. research and German studies, for instance, German leaders agreed to make reopening dependent on case numbers, meaning restrictions snap back or reopening gets put on hold if the case numbers in a given region exceed a certain threshold. Meanwhile, several U.S. states have reopened despite rising case numbers. “I don’t understand that logic,” said Reinhard Busse, a health-care management professor at the Technical University of Berlin. Lauterbach said that even though most Germans disapproved of Trump before the pandemic, even his staunchest critics in Germany were surprised by how even respected U.S. institutions, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, struggled to respond to the crisis. The CDC, for instance, initially botched the rollout of test kits in the early stages of the outbreak. “Like many other aspects of our country, the CDC’s ability to function well is being severely handicapped by the interference coming from the White House,” said Harvard epidemiologist Lipsitch. “All of us in public health very much hope that this is not a permanent condition of the CDC.” Some observers fear the damage will be difficult to reverse. “I’ve always thought of the CDC as a reliable and trusted source of information,” said Wiles, the New Zealand specialist. “Not anymore.”"

No one tells us what to do!!! Clearly these people don't love freedom enough.

6/19/2020 8:49:58 PM

I've been continuing to check this regularly:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Looks like it's going sideways to me, not down. Not to mention the last 4-5 days have been a steady incline: 26k, 27k, 28k, and around 34k today! 4500 in texas, almost 4000 in florida. The first wave never ended, you dumb fucks.

6/19/2020 9:05:31 PM

^That's only because of our vastly superior testing. Thank you, President Trump!

6/20/2020 4:08:17 AM

This

Quote :

"when the guy trying to explain how ionization will kill 99% of coronavirus pronounces "ionization" wrong TWICE, maybe you should record a second take????????? for safety????? "

About this

Quote :

"A megachurch is hosting Trump's rally on Tuesday in Phoenix. These two con-men falsely claim they've installed a system which kills 99.9% of COVID-19. https://twitter.com/caitiedelaney/status/1275124118875041792?s=19 Arizona's Coronavirus numbers are surging. Madness...https://t.co/6mgM8BLhO9"

6/22/2020 4:23:36 PM

There are too many variables WRT to testing to know if case numbers represent infection. Death numbers are really the only ones you can rely on and they have been on the steady but slow decline since peaking in April. The media makes it seem like they have gone back up but that just isn't true.

Cases- If you only test people who come in sick then your cases represent extreme cases which is just a small % of total cases. (Lets say 10 people in the hospital, 9 test positive 90%)

Testing- As your testing capacity increases, you start to test more people with mild symptoms. Cases go up even if the spread has gone down. (Lets say you have now tested 100 people and 50 are positive (50%) and 9 are admitted)

Positive rate- Positive rate is affected by the sample of who you are testing. It can go up and down depending on that sample and not just on the spread. It only aligns with the spread if you are always testing a random sample of the population. The first two examples I gave have the same hospitalization rate and likely similar infection rates but vastly different positive rates and case numbers because of the sample of people who are being tested.

Hospitalization rates should not be very variable and death rates should not be variable at all. We need to stick to using the death rates and not overreact to case numbers. People don't like that because they want the instant gratification and deaths take longer to happen.

The reality is that some place have seen an increase of infection but the nation overall is still on the decline.

6/22/2020 5:02:07 PM

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
Notice how positive test rate was up over 20% but went down as more tests were done. more negative opportunities but also more positive opportunities. More cases. 20% of 100k vs 5% of 500k. Which is bigger?

Its more a function of how much random testing is being done. With no random testing you get higher % positive.

6/22/2020 5:08:51 PM

Trying to figure out if an upward slope on positive test rate is good or bad

6/22/2020 5:40:01 PM

The only thing that really matters is hospitalizations and deaths. Even positive case count imo at this point is only a secondary metric, insofar as much as it impacts the first two.

[Edited on June 22, 2020 at 6:53 PM. Reason : segment by age group]

6/22/2020 6:51:33 PM

Except those two metrics may lag any uptick in cases

6/22/2020 7:22:10 PM

In NC at least hospitalizations are up like 75% since reopening.

Where are the national COVID hospitalization numbers?

^^ The percentage of tests coming back positive increasing is concerning to me given who they were giving these tests to months back.

[Edited on June 22, 2020 at 7:47 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2020 7:38:37 PM

Think I saw hospitalizations lag cases by two weeks and deaths lag another two weeks after that, so positive news is that deaths in NC at least aren't spiking yet.

6/22/2020 7:46:20 PM

America always lacks empathy
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1275261089165594625.html

6/23/2020 8:05:44 AM

Quote :

"South Carolina racial justice activists said they would postpone future demonstrations or move them online after at least 13 people who took part in previous protests tested positive for the coronavirus. As the number of cases across the country continued to climb ominously Monday, organizers of “I Can’t Breathe” protests in South Carolina urged participants to get tested for the virus. In a video posted Sunday on Facebook, organizer Lawrence Nathaniel said demonstrators who marched in Columbia, S.C., between May 30 and June 17 had tested positive. He said four organizers were confirmed infected, along with three photographers and six protesters."

6/23/2020 8:08:01 AM

Yea what I assume are the challenges of being Black in America and having to choose bw putting your life at risk during a pandemic (not to mention from the cops patrolling protests) or staying silent about systemic racism and murders of Black people.


But I also saw more masks in protest pictures than at half the restaurants I got takeout from last weekend

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 8:57 AM. Reason : E]

6/23/2020 8:56:55 AM

On the bright side, for those of us that like salmon, we're now going to be able to buy it cheap.

6/23/2020 8:59:26 AM

^^ it's kinda hard to eat food in a restaurant with a mask on.

I understand your point, but you're not going to be sitting down at a table with a mask on. If that's not kosher, then either restaurants should not have dining at tables at all and/or you personally shouldn't be going into them.

6/23/2020 9:16:08 AM

Peaceful protests may be good for mental health as they have been locked down and forced to stay at home for more than three months.

6/23/2020 9:25:53 AM

^^restaurants should not have dining indoors at all right now. Outdoors restaurants should limit party size but also people shouldn't be getting together with friend groups to eat. I was getting takeout from outside but I have eyes and places have windows. Besides that not even doctors and hospitals are mandating masks.

6/23/2020 9:39:21 AM

^ I ate outdoors at a place in New York State when I was travelling there for work a couple weeks ago and I was absolutely observing friends getting together to eat (or have a beer together to be more accurate), about a dozen or so.

My state went to next phase of opening up this past week. My rugby team had a get-together at our bar the first day it was allowed to open and I attended an auto race Sunday night. They had signs saying to social distance but there was zero enforcement and it was entirely ignored. So that answers my question on if we have college football games and fans are there under the predisposition of social distancing what's going to happen: nothing, friends are going to ignore it and congregate. The only other alternative is you have the police and security enforcing it. Oh right, we as a society hate the police now... With some hindsight, I can look at these decisions for me to attend and say neither was really bright, but I just want stuff to get back to normal and took the risk. The people attending at the bar and the race are neither left nor right, just people that want to do their activities they always do. The race crowd are more Republican-leaning than you'd normally find and the bar crowd are more Democrat-leaning than you'd normally find.

I'm more libertarian-minded but that's literally the only way to do this social distancing in public arenas if you deem it absolutely necessary is the police/National Guard/similar entities goes out and enforces it, either on the individual basis or the business basis. That also means public protests should be banned, be they protesting social distancing measures governments are imposing or Black Lives Matter protests. Problem is we as a society side on individual liberty and don't believe in the types of government crackdowns that to fight the virus you should do. Covid contact tracing that Apple and New York City are for example doing (and other Western countries like Germany. China is doing it too although that fits in with them). There's this law the EU Parliament passed of entities recording your digital data being banned that a lot of people think should be implemented here. This contact tracing literally flies in the face against, and I'm sure there's a lot of lawyers trying to figure out how to work around that law and still do it in the EU.

(The NYC tracing by the way is already being determined to be completely ineffective.)

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 10:45 AM. Reason : /]

6/23/2020 10:26:07 AM

"i just want things to get back to normal, but I will do things that actively work against that goal"

6/23/2020 10:46:21 AM

^ I have always followed the rules set by the states I've been in. I've spent time in the states of Indiana, North Carolina, and New York since this thing started (and drove back and forth from Indiana to New York 5 round trips the past 3 months, so tack on Ohio and Pennsylvania). Outside of that I've pretty much always been at home, in my hotel room when I was not working in New York, or only seeing a small group of family members. My ticket Sunday night was taken by a guy with a Sheriff's Department shirt on. Whether he actually worked for the Sheriff, I don't know, but 100% there was some kind of police presence there, and social distancing protocols for everyone in the facility were merely suggestions. I'm making the point everyone regardless of their political beliefs are going to do what they feel versus "follow suggestions".

If going to a restaurant and sitting down and eating should not be allowed due to health risk, then we should literally as a society be considering martial law because you have to enforce all these health measures, people will not do it themselves.

6/23/2020 11:04:11 AM

Your ticket?

6/23/2020 11:42:42 AM

Well my QR code on my phone from pre-ordering.

6/23/2020 11:44:07 AM

Cops enforcing mask wearing is probably the only way to achieve 99% compliance.

But if you had leadership, of all political leanings, church leaders, Doctors, TV pundits, etc, constantly beating in to people the importance of wearing masks and social distancing, And how it’s really the only solution until a vaccine, I’d bet we could get to 75% compliance.

Instead we have the entirety of a political party and the most watched cable news channel constantly downplaying it, suggesting miracle drugs with no evidence, spreading conspiracy theories and flaunting expert advice.

6/23/2020 12:00:13 PM

Covid-19 vaccine will be ready by the end of the year. Good news.

6/23/2020 12:08:40 PM

^^ The same cops are going to enforce mask wearing that currently do not enforce many laws? All while remembering police is a locally carried out function versus one that is controlled federally.

To go back to a post I made in the spring college football thread in Sports talk:

Quote :

"I kind of wonder about the practicality of reduced capacity events. I was wanting to go to the Indy 500 which is more than double the size of any college football game, but I'm wondering what it's going to look like. 1.) It's not just seating, it's walking in the concourse, using the bathrooms, getting concessions, entry into the arena/stadium. 2.) Is social distancing all or nothing? If I go with my wife, social distancing is stupid because we sleep together. But apply that to my kids as well, they'd be young and I'm not staying 6 feet away from them in an environment with strangers, again anything they have I do as well and vice versa. Well, then apply this to roommates. Or fraternities. Soon you're walking down a slope of who can sit together and who can't. What's stopping 6 buddies from ordering tickets and saying they live together? 3.) Once everyone is in their seats, how are they going to stop people from wandering? Are they planning on having a bunch of roaming cops or yellow shirters, which means more people to account for? (This point more than any just begs for bullshit to happen. Either the social distancing in a stadium environment quickly becomes a fraud, or you have to have some measure of enforcement.)"

If N.C. State has a home football game in October at 25% capacity, and one guy gets up and moves other 3 sections to sit next to his friend, what are security/police going to do? Kick him out? In this current political climate?

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 12:36 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2020 12:27:10 PM

The point is being made in the 2nd paragraph.

If we had leadership that gave a damn about the country instead of scoring political points you could get 75% of the way to compliance.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 12:32 PM. Reason : Without a need for cops to police everyone]

6/23/2020 12:31:30 PM

Quote :

"But if you had leadership, of all political leanings, church leaders, Doctors, TV pundits, etc, constantly beating in to people the importance of wearing masks and social distancing, And how it’s really the only solution until a vaccine, I’d bet we could get to 75% compliance."

That still would not prevent people from showing up at a bar and having drinks with friends.

You're wanting a 1970s solution to a problem in 2020 where back then you had a very narrow group of people that have the power to persuade the actions of everyone and that group all had very similar opinions to one another. And if you were off the reservation, so what, you had no way of getting your message out. We don't live in that world anymore. Haven't for a long time.

If you want to solve this, you need to have one principle for everyone and everything, no waivers for anyone or anything allowed. That's where I feel the states en masse fucked up on this in the beginning (to be clear I think most governors have done a good job all things considered, from both parties). I read the waivers for my state on what was considered business-critical back in late March, and it's laughable some of the items that were considered a critical business, meanwhile you have businesses or events for most people that they consider super legitimate in comparison which were shut down. If it is wrong to sit down and eat in a restaurant than that should lead to literally every single consumer-based business needing to be shut down to where no consumers are allowed to enter, including grocery stores. Delivery of groceries would have to be some other method (pickup, drive thru). Instead states just setup a random list of what was allowed as opposed to making sure their lists were internally consistent. The states had the people in this crisis in the beginning. Trump was pissed off but he had no power other than the bully pulpit because all the action was driven by the states.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 1:00 PM. Reason : /]

6/23/2020 12:44:28 PM

Quote :

"If it is wrong to sit down and eat in a restaurant than that should lead to literally every single consumer-based business needing to be shut down to where no consumers are allowed to enter, including grocery stores. "

Wut

6/23/2020 1:08:08 PM

One thing I just remembered as far as cops enforcing mask wearing. When this whole thing started, eons and ages ago, my work gave me a piece of paper to print and have with me when I travel saying I am mission critical for this reason supporting X. A good number of people got these for their jobs based on reading my Facebook and friends. My friend in our city's police force at the time said the unit would not be enforcing people not driving on the road or being out. I made 5 8-hour round trips to New York State. I drove locally. I drove to North Carolina and back. Not once was I ever stopped and asked for this piece of paper. That's a lot of police district jurisdictions I drove in.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2020 1:10:31 PM

Quote :

" I have always followed the rules set by the states I've been in. "

It's not about just following the rules set by the states. If you want to get back to normal, practice social distancing and wear a mask. Drinking with friends at a bar and going to a race are actively working against things going back to normal. Just because those things are allowed in a state does not mean they are the socially responsible thing to do.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 1:18 PM. Reason : Oh I see, this guy has decided to just ignore covid]

6/23/2020 1:17:00 PM

Yeah, I'm ignoring Covid. I only posted this on page 1 of this thread back on January 28th.

Quote :

"This is global at this point. The quarantine was too late to be effective, although no one has died overseas yet and there's no signs of anyone passing on overseas once they got it, although that timeframe is still early."

6/23/2020 1:23:37 PM

Quote :

" drove locally. I drove to North Carolina and back. Not once was I ever stopped and asked for this piece of paper."

there was never any legislation or guidelines outlawing driving, so of course you were never stopped

6/23/2020 1:37:15 PM

^ so why the mission critical travel statements? companies don't spend time to publish bullshit for nothing

Quote :

"If you want to get back to normal, practice social distancing and wear a mask. Drinking with friends at a bar and going to a race are actively working against things going back to normal. Just because those things are allowed in a state does not mean they are the socially responsible thing to do."

Allright, shouldn't they be closed as should all consumer-based businesses if that is literally the state we are at?

The government of my state and any other state and their governors informed by their public health advisors are way more knowledgeable about what is going on with Covid-19 and the health crisis than me, you, or anyone else on this board unless you're willing to share your name and the public position you hold. If the government is saying "bars can open up", that tells me that the governor informed by the public health advisors think risk has been reduced low enough that is now a safe or safer activity. I have been in states with Republican leadership and states with Democratic leadership. I see little difference in the actions of Governor Holcomb, Governor Cooper, and Governor Cuomo for how they responded and acted through this. New York State mandated wearing masks in public places is one difference. Although that was not in place until the crisis had been going on awhile, and enforcement was business-driven, so it did not apply to the outdoor bar seating my last trip there where a dozen friends got together to have a beer.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 1:54 PM. Reason : /]

6/23/2020 1:52:45 PM

Except the governor is a politician, and politicians like to be re-elected. I feel like Cooper has even relented on what we should be doing for what many people want, because it's an election year.

6/23/2020 1:58:27 PM

FR made so many wild statements on this page, it would be quite a task to address them all

6/23/2020 1:59:47 PM

Yes, if it wasn't for the economy (and convenience), common sense would dictate that everything should remain closed until infection rates creep to a crawl, and we're far from that. The decision to reopen is probably more influenced by the economy and the public's convenience (which effects re-election) than what's best for the populations' health.

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2020 2:02:33 PM

Quote :

" If it is wrong to sit down and eat in a restaurant than that should lead to literally every single consumer-based business needing to be shut down to where no consumers are allowed to enter, including grocery stores. Delivery of groceries would have to be some other method (pickup, drive thru)."

turns out that people need to eat to survive and not everyone is able to afford the privilege of delivery/pickup/drive thru

6/23/2020 2:25:28 PM

^ If it is determined not safe to go into a restaurant, how can it then be determined it is safe to go into a grocery?

If you state X, X has to be applied to everything that has similar circumstances. I'm not arguing groceries should be closed, I'm asking for a principle developed by governments with thought put into it that is applied in a uniform manner with no waivers. But no one here wants to do that, they just want to engage in point scoring.

6/23/2020 2:41:58 PM

there are plenty of reasons

1) grocery stores are often much larger than restaurants
2) the amount of ways germs can be spread in restaurants far exceeds the way they can be spread in grocery stores

I’ll just stop with those two

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2020 2:49:49 PM

Quote :

" If it is determined not safe to go into a restaurant, how can it then be determined it is safe to go into a grocery?"

I really can't tell if you're being genuine in your questions. Having groceries is essential, dining in a restaurant isn't. In a restaurant, you're sitting inside, in one place, in close proximity to others, which is a known as a common way to spread the virus. In a grocery store it's much easier to social distance, and you're constantly on the move, and it's much more open. And it's essential, and it's not practical for everyone to have groceries delivered to them

6/23/2020 2:52:51 PM

Also, you can (and should) wear a mask in a grocery store.

Quote :

"Yeah, I'm ignoring Covid. I only posted this on page 1 of this thread back on January 28th."

Yes, but now you're tired of it so you just don't care obviously.

6/23/2020 2:57:16 PM

Justin it's simple. If armed guards prevent me from entering a bar and the police arrest me when I intentionally cough on the elderly, then I'll stop! What else do you expect from me?

6/23/2020 3:00:04 PM

Quote :

"! Arizona hits new hospitalization record for the 8th straight day ahead of Trump's visit 2,136 patients with COVID or suspected COVID are in Arizona hospital beds, per the state dashboard. And the trend is accelerating, up 144 in 1 day. It was 818 on Memorial Day. https://t.co/lef8TagGHT"

6/23/2020 3:25:03 PM

Quote :

"If it is determined not safe to go into a restaurant, how can it then be determined it is safe to go into a grocery?"

do you really not see the difference or is this some purely economic take?

6/23/2020 3:32:38 PM

Quote :

" ^ so why the mission critical travel statements? companies don't spend time to publish bullshit for nothing"

I don’t know why companies gave employees that documentation. But driving on the roads was never banned nor was it ever even in question. You gotta drive to the grocery store. You can just drive for the sake of driving. You don’t need a note for it. Giving employees a letter saying they are essential was dumb and unnecessary all along. That wasn’t a lack of enforcement, it was probably just overreaction/CYA mode by businesses trying to look out for their employees.

Quote :

" If it is determined not safe to go into a restaurant, how can it then be determined it is safe to go into a grocery? "

A lot of focus is on the consumer but employee health is often overlooked. It would seem that grocery store employees can practice social distancing much easier than restaurant employees...among the other obvious reasons that others have said for grocery stores being more essential than restaurants

[Edited on June 23, 2020 at 3:34 PM. Reason : A]

6/23/2020 3:34:23 PM

Quote :

" Instead we have the entirety of a political party and the most watched cable news channel constantly downplaying it, suggesting miracle drugs with no evidence, spreading conspiracy theories and flaunting expert advice."

flouting

6/23/2020 3:55:08 PM

Quote :

"Covid-19 vaccine will be ready by the end of the year. Good news."

but will enough Americans take it for it to matter? I can't to see the vaccine conspiracy theories ramp up like never before.

6/23/2020 4:06:36 PM

^^thanks G

6/23/2020 4:55:23 PM

NP, Terd. May have been a typo / autocorrect.

6/23/2020 5:02:48 PM