^they also came before the new safety standards. no airbags, no side impact reinforcement. That's why they are so light and get such good mileage.

10/6/2008 1:12:49 PM

^&^^I agree.

10/6/2008 1:22:02 PM

The concept looked stunning, but the product looks like a chevy prius...

[Edited on October 6, 2008 at 1:35 PM. Reason : OK, not that bad, but still... looks like ass ]

10/6/2008 1:34:43 PM

You can't expect an extreme economy car to look like a sports car. Efficiency requirements dictate a shape similar to the Prius / Insight.

That said, the Volt is NOT a hybrid. It's an electric car with a range-extending generator built in. It should not be compared to the Prius, since it's drivetrain is radically different. If your average daily commute is less than 40 miles round-trip, then you should expect the equivalent of over 100 MPG based on common conversion rates from electricity to gasoline.

Also with Obama and a democratic congress in power, you can expect several subsidies placed to encourage sales of high-efficiency cars like the Volt. The total cost will be significantly less than $40,000 when factoring those in.

10/6/2008 5:41:37 PM

TOO UGLY, TOO EXPENSIVE
sigh...
TOO AMERICAN

10/6/2008 6:09:05 PM

VOLT SS

405HP LS6

PRESS RELEASE DUE OUT FRIDAY

10/6/2008 6:28:27 PM

this whole volt thing has been a HUGE disappointment.

10/6/2008 9:46:03 PM

Quote :

"That said, the Volt is NOT a hybrid. It's an electric car with a range-extending generator built in. It should not be compared to the Prius, since it's drivetrain is radically different. If your average daily commute is less than 40 miles round-trip, then you should expect the equivalent of over 100 MPG based on common conversion rates from electricity to gasoline. Also with Obama and a democratic congress in power, you can expect several subsidies placed to encourage sales of high-efficiency cars like the Volt. The total cost will be significantly less than $40,000 when factoring those in."

You might want to read up on plug-in hybrids. Because I could give a shit about the technical details, but the new round of hybrids from Toyota, Honda and Mini will all do the same fucking thing, but for half the price.

And either Obama will subsidize ALL EV's, which will make the 20k competition even a better buy than the Volt, or subsidizing only US cars will mean EVERYONE has to pay for an overpriced domestic option (which is fucking stupid).

I pray to god Obama doesn't get elected, btw.

10/6/2008 9:54:27 PM

^likewise

10/6/2008 11:04:04 PM

^^ As usual, your post is full of bullshit and hyperbole.

Quote :

"The plug-in Prius, which should come to market in 2010, will have an electric-only range of just 10 miles because Toyota doesn't think that a) people will be willing to spend money on bigger batteries with better range and b) that the battery technology is proven enough to be reliable"

http://techblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/toyota-skeptical-about-plugin.html

Quote :

" Honda, a company that will have a new Insight hybrid out next year, has no plans to add a plug. "Our engineers just don't feel the promise is there," Honda sales vice president Dick Colliver said last month at an automotive conference in Michigan. "

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/when_engineers_from_japan_show.html

And Mini? Are you joking throwing that out there? They haven't even released a hybrid yet, let alone announced ANY plans to develop a plug-in hybrid. Just because some company threw a lithium-ion battery pack and an electric motor in a Mini and drove it around Hollywood doesn't mean it's feasible for Mini to do so.

Noen, honestly you are like the nutsmackr of The Garage and Tech Talk. 90% of your posts are straight-up bullshit.



[Edited on October 7, 2008 at 1:59 AM. Reason : 2]

10/7/2008 1:54:28 AM

I thought the concept and actual model looked different

10/7/2008 2:28:21 AM

well a 2 door hybrid is kind of a dumb idea. at least someone had the insight to go with a sedan.

10/7/2008 7:18:48 AM

I'm pretty sure the original one has four doors, just look closer.

10/7/2008 7:38:48 AM

oh damn good catch.

i was totally wrong there, lol

10/7/2008 1:01:25 PM

that thing looks like a civic+prius+malibu-esque decal slapped on

10/7/2008 1:48:27 PM

Quote :

"And Mini? Are you joking throwing that out there? They haven't even released a hybrid yet, let alone announced ANY plans to develop a plug-in hybrid. Just because some company threw a lithium-ion battery pack and an electric motor in a Mini and drove it around Hollywood doesn't mean it's feasible for Mini to do so. "

http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/orders/mini.html you can order one today.

Quote :

"^^ As usual, your post is full of bullshit and hyperbole."

You shithead, Toyota announced the reduced range what 3 DAYS AGO? And you are going to call me a liar for not being on top of a 3 day old press release?

My comment was based on the fact that there are multiple companies out there ALREADY that will retrofit plug-in systems for the Prius for 7-10K, with a range of 30-50 miles on solely electric. Lets do the math. 22K car + 9K upfit = 29K car. Still 11 thousand dollars less than the Volt. Get out of here with your retarded shit.

And you will be able to drive that Honda insight for 2 years before the Volt is even on the market, and for half the price. So you tell me which is better, an AFFORDABLE hybrid now, or one that won't exist for another 2+ years?

Not to mention most analysts are predicting Ford will only be able to get 30-40 thousand volts off the line in 2010, while more than 200,000 Insights will be rolling into consumer showrooms next year.

My posts aren't bullshit. Unlike you I do a little more than just call up google news and post the latest press release. I'm looking at the longterm nature of the beat. Honda and Toyota have mature platforms that can be easily iterated on to respond to the Volt. If it succeeds at 40k, you can bet they will come in with stiff competition.

10/7/2008 9:28:19 PM

Quote :

"22K car + 9K upfit = 29K car"

wat?

10/7/2008 9:36:31 PM

lol and the Ford volt.

10/7/2008 9:38:43 PM

^^ whoops, i meant 7K even at 31K, it's still a huge savings for a better car.

10/8/2008 3:31:26 AM

^C'mon, you're talking about aftermarket "solutions" that have not been tested, properly engineered or held to the same standards required of automakers. Its akin to saying that you could put a big turbo on a compact car to match the horsepower of a sports car and get "huge savings for a better car".

Lets stick to reality here. Aftermarket modification of a Prius, Insight or Mini with an extended-range lithium-ion battery pack does not put it on the same footing as a car built and designed to have those features, and you know that.

10/8/2008 11:35:18 AM

^They come with full warrantees, which is the mark (to me) of being a reputable aftermarket solution. They have been extremely well tested. I'm not talking about Joe Blow putting batteries into his car in his home garage. These are serious, legitimate alternative energy companies creating well thought out, and tested, aftermarket solutions.

The A123 Systems, which is the biggest outfit offering Prius plug-in solutions DOES have official ties with multiple major auto manufacturers.

Hybrid Technologies (offering the Mini plug-in hybrid) is also well founded and has tons of real-world data to back themselves with proven technology.

This is absolutely no different than Saleen, Lingenfelter, Ruf, Brabus, or any of the hundred or so other 3rd party vehicle outfitters around the world with solid reputations and close ties to the OEM's they live off of. The reason they exist is because they support markets too small or risky for the OEM, but are sustainable for a small, nimble company.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 7:35 PM. Reason : . ]

10/8/2008 7:34:20 PM

Quote :

"^^ whoops, i meant 7K even at 31K, it's still a huge savings for a better car."

i thought you did, but i wasnt sure if you were if you were including the tax advantages of a hybrid

10/8/2008 7:41:42 PM

prawn star has a crush on me.

10/14/2008 11:34:15 PM

^Hey there former roomie

10/15/2008 1:55:14 AM

what it be?

10/15/2008 4:00:53 PM

Just for Prawn Star

Imagine that, the official BMW Mini Cooper electric, with Lithium Ion technology. HMM.

LA Preview: 204-hp lithium battery-powered MINI E revealed!

10/20/2008 12:09:07 AM

Hey, good for MINI. It's like their own version of the EV1:

Quote :

"BMW will be leasing the 500 cars to commercial and private customers in California, New York and New Jersey starting early next year. They may eventually expand the program to Europe as well."

That doesn't make it a competitor to the Volt, since it's not mass-market but rather just a trial run.

The aftermarket guys who mod Minis with a lithium ion battery pack sell them for $57 K. Any guess as to how much it'll cost BMW to make these? I'm guessing it'll be more than the ~40 K that the Volt is going to sell for.

10/20/2008 10:15:04 AM

China makes world's first production plug-in hybrid sedan and plug-in hybrid crossover.

Imagine that, the Chinese beat the Japs, Europeans, and Americans!

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/13/detroit-2009-byd-f3dm-is-the-poor-mans-plug-in-toyota-corolla/
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/detroit-2009-byd-e6-is-worlds-first-production-dual-mode-plug/

1/15/2009 6:18:04 PM

sounds a bit too good to be true. 50%charge in 10 mins etc.? chinese are mighty industrious these days, and im sure warren buffet did his research before droppin a buncha his millionz into this venture so there is hope

1/15/2009 6:39:42 PM

I read this two days ago.

/old

1/16/2009 1:02:20 AM

Opel Ampera

The Chevy Volt for Europe. Looks much better than the Volt.

Pic too large. Someone can resize it and post it if they want.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/opemamperawall.jpg

3/1/2009 4:50:02 PM

Still looks like shit compared to the concept car. I know concept cars never quite make it to production, but this was a total bait and switch.

For comparison, go back and look at the 350Z concept. It's almost identical to production.

3/1/2009 6:25:40 PM

agreed

3/1/2009 6:59:19 PM

this may be [old] but Telsa announces a $50k all-electric sedan



http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/26/tesla.new.sedan/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

looks like they "borrowed" a lot of design ques from other luxury brands. It's a good looking ride, but it does look just like a regular internal-combustion car.

Considering the possibilities that come from having an all-electric drive train, should electric cars be more radical? maybe that would justify having a higher price sticker better than introducing electric vehicles as wither "green" or "luxury" in order for them to sell at a profit.

Remeber GM's skateboard platform? Im still not convinced it would have very efficient with the whole body swap idea, but the possibilities of not having a traditional engine compartment and ehaust and fuel system bring a lot of possibilities on what a car can look (and perform) like



[Edited on March 27, 2009 at 7:21 AM. Reason : pic]

3/27/2009 7:19:49 AM

^ That looks good... much better looking than the volt.

3/27/2009 9:12:31 AM

I like it too, those wheels are beautiful (IMO). Looks like similar styling to some of the new Jags. Nice looking vehicle.

3/27/2009 11:09:22 AM

I love those wheels too.

Looks to me like a cross between a Jag XF and an Aston Martin Vantage.

Which is totally not a bad thing at all. In fact, it is a very good thing.

3/27/2009 11:13:09 AM

Igor, I think the shape of cars are dictated by many other things like cabin layout, crash testing, and aerodynamics, perhaps even more so than drivetrain set up.

Look at the shape of a Corvair, doesn't look particularly different than a "normal" car, yet it has the engine in the rear. The Corvette certainly looks like it could have the engine elsewhere, and so on.

3/27/2009 11:23:12 AM

^ defenitely aerodynamics will be a larger factor in anything electric even more so than than internal combustion cars. safety will always dictate front and rear crumple zones. It jsut seems theres would be much room to play with the passanger compartment once the traditional drivetrain is gone. i know this does not look like the most comfortable interior, but this is the idea

Quote :

"I love those wheels too. Looks to me like a cross between a Jag XF and an Aston Martin Vantage. Which is totally not a bad thing at all. In fact, it is a very good thing. "

turbine wheels "borrowed" from Saab concept

agree on Jag/Aston Martin entirely. maybe even that Maserati sedan.

Quote :

"That looks good... much better looking than the volt"

what Volt SHOULD have been, if they kept the concept look they WOULD have sold it as an upscale ride for 50 grand. now its another prius as fas as the sex appeal goes

3/27/2009 2:46:37 PM

Quote :

"looks like they "borrowed" a lot of design ques from other luxury brands. It's a good looking ride, but it does look just like a regular internal-combustion car. "

It's vapor ware. They have a one-off, non-functioning prototype. Unlike the current Tesla, which is just a tweaked Lotus chassis, the Model S is their own platform.... that doesn't exist.

Tesla needs several hundred million dollars of investment (which they are seeking from bailout money) to even have a chance at developing this. In 30 months. From scratch. With no prior experience.

It took GM 7 years to get the Volt platform to a point of a functioning prototype. Just a point of comparison.

3/27/2009 2:48:43 PM

Yes but GM still hasn't gotten anything right. Bad example to follow. Maybe you should comment on someone who actually has done something right.

3/27/2009 3:29:56 PM

I don't know if it is vaporware or not... but here is some info. BTW, they also say the prototype is a full functioning car. Click link for more info and a huge gallery.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesla-model-s-50-000-ev-sedan-seats-seven-300-mile-range-0-6/

Quote :

"Some other fast facts: The car fits seven people and their luggage: five adults and two children in rear-facing seats under the hatch inside, with luggage in the boot up front. If not people, it can fit a mountain bike with its wheels still on, a surfboard and a 50-inch television at the same time. The dashboard screens were installed to rid the interior of buttons. The 17-inch main display is fully 3G and Internet capable. The 300-mile range is possible (vs the Roadster's 244-mile range) because the S has 8,000 battery cells vs. 6,000 in the Roadster, the batteries have been improved in mass and volumetric performance, and there is more advanced cell chemistry in each cell, and the S has a cd of about .27 vs. the Roadster's drag coefficient of .35. On a 220V outlet, the car can be recharged in 4 hours. Option packages are being decided, with the only initial option being the battery pack. Customers will also be able to buy the 160-mile pack and rent the long range pack for a trip. They are finalizing the warranty, and expect it to be 3-4 years for the car and 7-10 years for the battery pack. They expect replacement battery packs to come in at "well under $5000" according to Elon. The quickness: the standard S will get to 60 in 5.5 to 6.0 seconds. A coming sport version will get to 60 in "well under five seconds," Musk says. The car will get a single-speed transmission. The body panels and chassis will be primarily aluminum, with a total weight of just over 4,000 pounds, about 1,200 pounds of that being battery mass. For infrastructure, Tesla is working with a government-affiliated partner to set up battery changing stations at various locations. They will be able to change the battery in 5-8 minutes, "quicker than filling up your car with gas." According to Tesla's numbers, buying a Tesla S will save you $10-$15K vs a comparably priced gas-powered sedan when gas is $4 per gallon. For an equivalent comparison, you'd have to lease a $35,000 gas-powered car. The biggest hitch: the car doesn't go into production until Q3 of 2011."

From the back it totally looks like a Jag XF, right down to that chrome strip between the tail lights, which no other car has:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/tesla-model-s-1/1455159/full/

3/27/2009 5:04:47 PM

Quote :

"Yes but GM still hasn't gotten anything right. Bad example to follow. Maybe you should comment on someone who actually has done something right."

3/27/2009 6:01:55 PM

I'm intrigued by Tesla, though I still don't know if they can ever become something more then an oddity.

3/27/2009 8:50:46 PM

their goal is to sell 20,000 Model S cars.

remains to be seen, but i think they can do it.

3/27/2009 8:59:01 PM

Quote :

"FACT Yes, I slightly wet the bed ~7 years ago because I dreamt I was peeing and the mind made it real (and it didn't help that I had a very full bladder), not because I have weak bladder control; my PC muscles are actually very strong, and I quickly stopped the flow after a second or less."

-0ep3yearold

4/3/2009 8:14:08 PM

Apteras out on a test drive around SF



http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/04/we-drive-the-ap.html

4/23/2009 9:12:30 AM

i'd like to see one vs. a dump truck crash test

4/25/2009 8:14:18 PM

VOLT TO BE SEEN A MCKIMMON CENTER

Quote :

" The Chevy Volt, making its first appearance in the Southeast, will headline a Raleigh conference and expo on electric transportation next week. The Research Triangle Energy Consortium is hosting a day-long conference, "Electrifying Transportation; A Road to Energy Security," Wednesday at N.C. State University's McKimmon Conference Center on Gorman Street. The conference will feature transportation technology experts including Daniel Sperling of the UC-Davis Institute for Transportation Studies, author of "Two Billion Cars." A technology and vehicle expo with 24 exhibits will be open to the public, free of charge, from 1:30 to 2:30 p.m. Included are a vintage 1918 Detroit Electric car and a Chevy Volt, the plug-in hybrid General Motors plans to start selling in 2010. GM says the Volt will travel 40 miles on an electric charge alone, and will have supplemental power from a small gas engine. A retired GM executive told David Letterman this week that the car will sell for about $40,000, minus federal rebates of $7,500. Details about the conference and expo are online at http://www.electrifync.com. "

5/21/2009 9:36:39 PM

set em up

5/23/2009 2:50:05 AM