these are different questions

I said you would get 5 cookies - did you get them? yes? credibility +1

Are you still hungry after the 5 cookies? ok fine, let's see what else we can do next.

1/15/2021 11:43:48 AM

The rate of shoplifting at grocery stores has risen out of desperation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/12/10/shoplifting-spikes-in-us-amid-increasing-desperation-as-pandemic-drags-on/?sh=661ac0b6216e

But sure, let's treat starving families like whiny brats begging for cookies

1/15/2021 11:44:55 AM

Here are some other stats. This data is from a month ago too

https://www.cbpp.org/blog/hardship-growing-as-pandemic-enters-11th-month-new-census-figures-show

Quote :

"29 million adults (14 percent) reported their household sometimes or often didn’t get enough to eat in the last seven days — the most in comparable Pulse data available back to late August and 2 million more than the previous Pulse release, in late November. This figure has risen by 7 million adults since late August. 90 million adults (38 percent) reported it was somewhat or very difficult for their household to pay for usual expenses in the last seven days — also the most in data back to late August and 4 million above the previous Pulse release. Since late August, this figure has risen by 13 million adults. In addition, an estimated 14 million renters reported they weren’t caught up on rent. This figure has exceeded 11 million in every data release since late August."

1/15/2021 11:48:45 AM

nobody is denying that Americans are hurting and need help.

if you thought $2k wasn't enough, that's fine. but pretending that Biden didn't follow through on the $2k they said they would (and remember these conversations started at $600 and $1200) is ridiculous

1/15/2021 11:56:41 AM

Instead of trying to get all technical about what they meant, here is a question: can anyone name a good reason NOT to just give $2000??? It would help people more AND be good politics.

Dems waste so much time making sure they don't help people TOO much. It's honestly shocking to me that "the leading supporter of cash relief" is endorsing this approach.

^this is Dem credibility not Biden credibility. Im too lazy to see if Biden went all in on $2k checks but tons of congress members did.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 11:58 AM. Reason : E]

1/15/2021 11:57:24 AM

It’s very clear what they did

https://twitter.com/eoinhiggins_/status/1349930897865379840?s=21

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ^that]

1/15/2021 12:00:16 PM

I agree it would have been both more effective relief AND more politically savvy to announce $2k checks ON TOP of the $600 already approved. But just because they didn't doesn't mean that they didn't follow through on their campaign commitments.

and, as I mentioned, I think there will be more to come. Biden clearly knows that his response to the pandemic and the economic recovery are going to be extremely important to the success of his administration.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:02 PM. Reason : ^ it's very clear that you are interpreting things the way you WANT to see things. very online.]

1/15/2021 12:00:28 PM

Quote :

"and, as I mentioned, I think there will be more to come. Biden clearly knows that his response to the pandemic and the economic recovery are going to be extremely important to the success of his administration."

Why are you so sure? Obama did much less in 2009. He allowed 10 million people to lose their homes while he bailed out the banks and gave out much smaller amounts of money than people are getting now.

1/15/2021 12:02:47 PM

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1349864653380268032

Quote :

"Rep. Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) says Dems should pass $2K on top of the $600 from December, rather than add $1,400 to get $600 to $2K. "$2,000 means $2,000. $2,000 does not mean $1,400,? @AOC tells us"

1/15/2021 12:05:15 PM

It absolutely would be going back on commitments

Nobody forced them to use the "$2000 checks" terminology. A classic stupid or liar?

Biden 5 days ago
https://twitter.com/leftistbeard/status/1350017382668910593?s=19

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:08 PM. Reason : E]

1/15/2021 12:07:11 PM

Obama's response has very little to do with what Biden will do. If anything, the lessons learned from our response to 2008 will hopefully give us a better playbook once Biden can start getting to work.

and to be clear, I didn't say I was sure. I am hopeful, however. if they fumble this, I'll be back to bttt this thread with my own -1, k

1/15/2021 12:07:36 PM

It's a brilliant idea to give your constituents less money than the guy who just beat. I'm sure that won't backfire

1/15/2021 12:08:48 PM

^^
I appreciate your optimism but we didn't learn from any of these either because there's nothing to be learned. Economists are well aware that we could (mostly) immunize ourselves against recession. We just don't do it because recessions are a necessary mechanism of capitalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States#Great_Depression_onward

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/15/2021 12:13:35 PM

The "this is for online people only" thing strikes me as a little weird too. If you're a low information Georgia voter that saw campaign ads for "$2k checks", voted for that guy, saw that guy win, then you get a $1400 check...seems like you are going to be very confused, at best.

1/15/2021 12:19:33 PM

I do understand the optics. but it only takes 2 seconds to realize that they're just making up the difference between what the Dems wanted and what the GOP allowed. I trust most voters to be able to overcome the knee-jerk reaction and do the #MATH

1/15/2021 12:25:46 PM

https://youtu.be/EeFA5zpSc20

Also, Warnock and Ossoff have not yet been certified as winners, much less seated in a Senate that's not currently in session. Therefore, how can they be fairly blamed?

The whole debate about $2000 started before the $600 was passed. Remember Trump refusing to sign the bill because he wanted the current round of checks increased to $2000? Well, they ended up passing $600 after all, so $600 + $1400 is exactly the same financial result Trump was promising. Most of the debate during the senate races was before the $600 had been agreed and when the amount was still subject to change.

This is just such a dumb argument. I don't doubt that many people have and will misconstrue it, which then creates a messaging problem, but we should be fair about it. These programs have a cost. The difference between $1400 and $2000 seems small individually, but it's massive on a national scale. This is a starting point.

1/15/2021 12:27:27 PM

Is it massive? In a 1.9 trillion package? Dang then maybe we can't afford $1400 either.

And it doesn't matter when the debate started. They campaigned on something very specific AFTER the $600 went out.

Warnock and ossof will be the ones that let this even get a vote. They are going to have power, use it to get what you campaigned for.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM. Reason : Biden ALSO isn't in office yet! ]

Oh yea and

Quote :

"Are there still people left on the internet that will click random Youtube links without a description or preview?"

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:38 PM. Reason : E]

1/15/2021 12:32:27 PM

Quote :

"They campaigned on something very specific AFTER the $600 went out"

12/20 stimulus package passes congress
12/22 pelosi agrees with trump to increase checks to 2000
12/28 house votes to increase checks to 2000
12/29 mcconnell blocks bill in senate
12/30 $600 stimulus checks begin being deposited
1/5 ga runoff election

1/15/2021 12:48:12 PM

Warnock ad 1/1

Joe Biden campaign rally on 1/4

Quote :

"3:44 on this video. The $2000 checks will go out “immediately” https://t.co/T2zQLyOQ8d via @YouTube "

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 12:52 PM. Reason : E]

1/15/2021 12:50:31 PM

well, i'm done arguing over semantics. I think it's obvious to most people that the dems were not campaigning on "$600 this week plus $2000 next week"

you do you though

1/15/2021 12:58:19 PM

Thanks! You, also, do you! We'll both do us.

Especially since we all seem to agree that giving $2k is the smart approach, which was the main point. $1400 is better than 0 but has a chance of downside, 2000 is even better and has really no downside.

1/15/2021 1:02:20 PM

I remember not that long ago when it was a big deal that they had to add a digit to the national debt clock. That was when it hit $10 trillion. So yes, it's a massive difference. Soon we'll be adding another digit for $100 trillion.

I click random YouTube links all the time. It adds some nervous excitement to my days. It's not a RickRoll, if that's your concern.

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 1:14 PM. Reason : YouTubes]

1/15/2021 1:12:31 PM

The package is 1.9 trillion. An additional $600 would be 0.16 trillion

If you're worried about the debt I have some great suggestions to offset this cost

[Edited on January 15, 2021 at 1:18 PM. Reason : The national debt? Haven't heard that name round these parts for 4 years! ]

1/15/2021 1:17:45 PM

LOL! Guess that means it's economically meaningless, then.

$160 billion is chump change.

1/15/2021 1:25:17 PM

It's pocket change compared to the stimulus package.

I don't understand how you can attack bumping the package by <10% from a debt perspective without just attacking the entire stimulus. Have you gone line by line through the rest of the bill to see where there is too much? Do you think $1400 is too much?

And cash payments are probably the single most efficient way the US government can spend money to actually help citizens.

1/15/2021 1:30:51 PM

The whole argument is pretty silly. I'm not attacking anything except the premise that $600 + $1400 is somehow not equal to $2000 and how passing a relief package early is somehow a broken promise to Georgia voters.

And generally, I don't like deficit spending, but it's the only viable option now.

1/15/2021 1:46:15 PM

ok fr I don't want to keep talking about 2k checks (unless they're recurring) but I saw this and had to share

1/15/2021 2:27:38 PM

that is pretty good.

Btw I was never arguing that 600+1400 doesn't equal 2000. I understand the logic behind $1400 and I even agree it matches the original intent. My point was that the messaging over the last month was confusing at best and rolling out a bill this way instead of with straight up $2000 carries risk.

1/15/2021 2:42:17 PM

Agree. Hopefully this is just the start of a significantly more competent administration, and there will be enough change for a long enough period of time that voters don't fixate on a difference of $600 two years from now because they lack math skills.

1/15/2021 2:48:22 PM

Or the Dems poor messaging. "$2000 check" does not seem like it will happen which makes it, at minimum, an error.

1/15/2021 2:58:30 PM

Do you not concede that had the $600 payments not been approved and distributed already, there WOULD be $2000 checks on the table now?

So what's next in this semantic argument? They said CHECKS, but I got a DIRECT DEPOSIT!

1/15/2021 3:26:27 PM

Right so they should have stopped saying that after the 600 went out. Easy enough to just stop saying "check", the word implies a lump sum payment. Just say "$2000 total" or even just "$2000" instead of "2000 check"

1/15/2021 4:10:21 PM

This is as painful to read as the horosho-Cabbage debates.

Are people aware the bill contains more than just $1400 checks?

1/15/2021 6:51:14 PM

You should go to the eye doctor if it hurts your eyes that much to read!!! Boom roasted

But yea i'm too lazy to read the rest of the bill, I'll just say some parts of it are too small and others are too big, to stay on trend

1/15/2021 6:55:50 PM

What are your thoughts on a $15 minimum wage?

1/15/2021 6:57:42 PM

$15 min wage definitely needed, it's ridiculous it's taken this long to raise it. It should be indexed to inflation too

1/15/2021 7:12:48 PM

Quote :

"Right so they should have stopped saying that after the 600 went out. Easy enough to just stop saying "check", the word implies a lump sum payment. Just say "$2000 total" or even just "$2000" instead of "2000 check""

Fair enough. Still, someone that would have been satisfied with $0 + $2000 should also be satisfied with $600 + $1400 and especially by getting the $600 sooner than otherwise.

1/15/2021 7:13:48 PM

I will be astonished if they actually pass a $15 minimum wage. Regardless it should be at least $20.

https://www.epi.org/publication/raising-the-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-by-2024-would-lift-pay-for-nearly-40-million-workers/

1/15/2021 7:19:45 PM

^^^^it's a great start!

^^true

1/15/2021 7:40:48 PM

Implementing a full UBI, giving it a year or two, and THEN readjusting the minimum wage to match the new labor market would be a lot more effective.

1/16/2021 12:17:32 AM

Quote :

"Dem @SenFeinstein doesn’t appear on board with punishing @SenTedCruz or @HawleyMO for role in challenging electoral college. “I think the Senate is a place of freedom, and people come here to speak their peace”"

Retire

1/19/2021 11:10:25 AM

Why should they be punished for challenging?

The punishment should be for sedition or incitement not for the challenge.

1/19/2021 12:21:11 PM

Cruz and Hawley claimed widespread fraud--millions of votes across multiple states--with zero evidence. The challenges were in bad faith.

These two turds will try to defend themselves by saying they don't necessarily believe there's widespread fraud, but 'people are saying...' Still bad faith arguments.

1/19/2021 2:35:08 PM

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/andrew-yang-nyc-mayoral-candidate-bds

Quote :

""Not only is BDS rooted in antisemitic thought and history, hearkening back to fascist boycotts of Jewish businesses, it's also a direct shot at New York City's economy," he said. "

1/23/2021 10:19:28 AM

Can we really afford to give every children 300/month? Where is this money going to come from? Jesus Christ.

I mean shit. I'll go ahead and have another child while I'm at it....~900/month, w00t.

1/23/2021 7:49:51 PM

Now that Trump is gone people are starting to worry about "where the money is gonna come from" alot more. Weird

But anyway the answer is/should be taxes

1/23/2021 8:03:08 PM

^^

Quote :

" Lower income, single-parent households spend an average of $172,200. "When you break it down per year, perhaps it's not insurmountable," says Jean Chatzky, CEO and founder of HerMoney Media. The USDA figure for a middle-income couple raising a child to adulthood equals out to nearly $13,000 a year, or $1,081 per month."

https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-raise-a-child

1/23/2021 11:56:35 PM

Ok. I never said children weren't cheap. I've got two of them. We pay that average every month in childcare alone. How many do you have?

I'm just asking how far we can go until we milk the cow dry, that's all. Look, I stand to benefit from this as well. I fall well under the threshold and that would be an extra $550/month, so bring it on. But are we just talking about extending the deficit? Which is fine, I didn't bitch about the deficit under Trump, I'm not going to bitch about it under Biden. But how far can you increase taxes and still make it work? Again, we're talking about this Child Care Tax extension, the extra stimulus, which I guess isn't funded by taxation? I don't know. You know the Biden administration is already looking into how they can expand the ACA, they're talking about student loan forgiveness and free college tuition...you're talking about money in numbers we can't even comprehend.

1/24/2021 11:25:35 AM

I have none and that doesn’t mean I can’t call someone out for flippantly saying that maybe they’re now incentivized to have another kid to collect $300 a month

especially in the middle of a pandemic that has devastated millions of people financially

[Edited on January 24, 2021 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/24/2021 12:51:35 PM

Quote :

" https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/andrew-yang-nyc-mayoral-candidate-bds "

The only fascists in the scenario are the Israeli authorities and the IHRA. And Yang seems to love them. What a stupid fucking take.

1/24/2021 1:11:32 PM