if she wasn't such a slut, she would have never given birth to a lion in the first place.

7/7/2014 1:41:36 PM

How is this girl a teenager and already has a full grown lion?

7/7/2014 1:45:14 PM

That lion could of grown up to be the next Einstein.

7/7/2014 3:25:46 PM

Not if we keep giving them handouts and free food they won't, they will just create a brood with a litter of cubs as soon as it reaches puberty

7/7/2014 3:30:14 PM

http://saturdaychores.tumblr.com/?og=1

7/24/2014 4:15:37 PM

how can those anti-abortion protesters (who presumably believe that abortion is murder of a human) stand by holding signs and praying while murder happens inside? fucking cowards.

7/27/2014 4:53:23 PM

Vengeful God will take care of those murderers, just like He'll protect the innocent babies and ensure they're born to loving/responsible mothers.

7/27/2014 7:50:41 PM

^^and the alternative would be??? blowing up clinics?

i'm sure you would say, "well i disagree with them, but at least they're rationally consistent"

[Edited on July 28, 2014 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ]

7/28/2014 10:48:34 AM

Citing Hobby Lobby, Satanist Temple requests exemption from abortion restrictions http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/28/3464769/satanists-hobby-lobby-abortion/

7/28/2014 12:50:30 PM

^^how would blowing up the center save the human child that's inside being murdered? they should rush in there and save the human child.

7/28/2014 1:46:06 PM

Quote :

"Citing Hobby Lobby, Satanist Temple requests exemption from abortion restrictions http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/28/3464769/satanists-hobby-lobby-abortion/"

LOL, that shit will get shut down in record time and for no good reason except our government is run through and through by Christian assholes.

7/29/2014 10:26:26 AM

Judge poses hypothetical in abortion ruling: What if you could only buy guns at two places in Alabama?
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/08/judge_poses_hypothetical_in_ab.html

lol, damn. shot's fired.

8/5/2014 3:19:40 PM

actually, it'll get shut down because it's a troll lawsuit by a known troll organization.

8/5/2014 10:02:11 PM

of course he thinks its interesting

besides being a troll himself he only responds to snark

aka obama is the greatest because he regurgitates clever one liners that he got from comedy central or facebook

its really sad

8/5/2014 10:07:30 PM

The sincerity of the beliefs of Hobby Lobby were never questioned in the lower courts or the Supreme Court, so they should not be questioned in this case as well. The Hobby Lobby decision expanded Sherbert v. Verner by accepting the sincerity of Hobby Lobby's beliefs without examination.

8/6/2014 8:51:59 AM

Quote :

"actually, it'll get shut down because it's a troll lawsuit by a known troll organization."

You mean a recognized 501(c)(3) church right? Or do they just need a few thousand years to magically grow legitimacy?

8/6/2014 9:11:46 AM

Pro-Lifers make me laugh with their silly logic

8/7/2014 7:05:10 PM

I think the phrase "pro-life" as it applies in this political battle is disingenuous. These people who claim themselves to be pro-life are anything but this. They aren't supporting the fetus's life - only its birth. They don't want to provide the medical care, education, food support, housing support, and/or financial support that the fetus may someday need. They aren't willing to provide support to the mother. These people only want to force parts of their religious belief onto others - they have somehow, in this case, narrowed their religious views to focus around the birth of a child only. They have ignored other Christian principles and beliefs. They don't love their fellow man as they should. They don't support their fellow man as they should. They want to pry into private, medical decisions for a singular issue with blinders on just to claim a religious victory.

8/8/2014 10:03:04 AM

Well said.

8/8/2014 2:52:26 PM

^^it's a fallacy that pro-life people are necessarily religious. It could be that they logically see the best time to determine when a human "begins" is conception (as opposed to some arbitrary time during the third trimester or when it leaves the vagina)

8/8/2014 3:02:32 PM

it's not a fallacy in the sense that it's a hasty generalization. while it is a generalization, it's one that just happens to be rooted in truth. There aren't many logical reasons for opposing abortion; just ones rooted in emotion and personal beliefs.

[Edited on August 8, 2014 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2014 3:30:54 PM

i admit that a lot of religious folk are pro-life (and probably the most vocal) but that is no reason to dismiss the viewpoint if you are not religious. I don't like abortion in general, but it is in no way a religious dogma that guides me to that viewpoint.

8/8/2014 3:33:37 PM

not 'liking' abortion isn't really a logical standpoint- especially when you're trying to impose your own opinion on another adult human with rights. conservatives have tried to use the 'i don't like it/it goes against my beliefs' argument to deny gay people rights too, and it was working pretty well until enough people realized how wrong and fucked up it is. people who 'don't like' marijuana are also starting to realize how dumb those policies and drug laws are too.

[Edited on August 8, 2014 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2014 3:36:48 PM

nobody "likes" abortion

but some like the idea of letting a person control decisions regarding their own body/situation and staying the hell out of it

8/8/2014 3:39:23 PM

i dunno, i kinda like abortion

8/8/2014 3:43:41 PM

Quote :

"it's a fallacy that pro-life people are necessarily religious. It could be that they logically see the best time to determine when a human "begins" is conception (as opposed to some arbitrary time during the third trimester or when it leaves the vagina)"

It's a true enough generalization, that if the religious weren't in this battle, there wouldn't be much of a battle at all. And... while I don't keep up with the science on this... I'm pretty sure researchers and scientists have come up with concrete stages within pregnancy that can better describe the beginning of life other than when some cells first get together and decide to multiply.

::warning anecdotal evidence:: I don't think I've ever seen (personally) a pro-life protest that wasn't rooted in religion ::now go shoot yourself with an epipen because I know most of you people are allergic to anecdotal evidence::

[Edited on August 8, 2014 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/8/2014 3:48:48 PM

again, there aren't any LOGICAL reasons to oppose abortion. just ones based on 'likes' and 'beliefs'. even pro-choice people may not 'like' the idea of terminating a pregnancy, but they'll hold their nose, since they realize it's none of their business and that adult women have reproductive rights. Smath74 is trapped and the only thing that can bail him out is saying, "well that's just what I believe"

8/8/2014 3:56:01 PM

Lol.

8/8/2014 5:03:48 PM

LOL all you want. your posts make you look pretty foolish.

8/8/2014 5:09:53 PM

I disagree there aren't any logical reasons to oppose abortion. We just don't live in a society where those reasons would be consistent with any other aspect of our laws or societal norms.

It seems very logical to me to believe that the essence of a human begins at "conception". There is a biological point where a woman's body "picks" an embryo and goes with it.

This fact doesn't necessarily mean abortion is wrong or should be illegal, but if someone accepts this, then it's not entirely unreasonable for them to believe this being should have rights.

However, the vast majority of "pro life" proponents can't seem to discuss or elaborate on their views without bringing religion into it, and they can't talk about, as wdprice3 mentioned, the other aspects that their alleged viewpoint should necessitate.

8/8/2014 5:19:01 PM

Quote :

"It seems very logical to me to believe that the essence of a human begins at "conception". There is a biological point where a woman's body "picks" an embryo and goes with it."

No, that's inherently a belief-based idea. Animals self-induce abortions for survival reasons. "Believing" that life begins at conception isn't rooted in science; it's rooted in an arbitrary framework of reasons.

8/8/2014 5:25:15 PM

^ a self-induced abortion is still an abortion. That doesn't have a bearing on the idea that a life was lost.

8/8/2014 6:35:05 PM

I don't think animals 'feel bad' about self-induced abortions the same way humans do, but I don't really have any way of proving that, now do I? I do know that animals don't have rallies and bomb abortion clinics in the name of God though.

My point is that "I believe that life begins at conception" is just a belief and an arbitrary one at that. It's no more 'valid' than my own belief that life doesn't really begin until after birth. Both views/beliefs are up to debate/interpretation. What isn't debatable is that there are scientific/medical terms that differentiate between an embryo, a zygote, a fetus, and child. A lot of people lump all of these things together to fit their own moral framework though.

8/8/2014 6:45:14 PM

My belief is that life begins when a fetus can reasonably survive outside the womb with little medical intervention (e.g. not pulling a matrix on it).

So can we make that the law?

8/8/2014 8:52:33 PM

I believe that some of the users here probably should have been aborted, so I'm making a law that I get to decide who is aborted

[Edited on August 8, 2014 at 10:39 PM. Reason : signed today, effevtive immediately ]

8/8/2014 10:39:05 PM

I disagree with your lifestyle and views towards TWW. I'll let God judge/punish you and those who wear cargo shorts though.

8/9/2014 12:18:29 AM

Quote :

" It's no more 'valid' than my own belief that life doesn't really begin until after birth."

I think that's my point. There's not a single, objective reason to believe one way or the other, when life begins, but does it really even matter? Even if there were somehow proof "conception" was THE time life began, or some other time period, do you really thing it would change the debate?

The reason most people support the right to abortion has to do with the dark reality that human beings' lives are complicated and wrought with hardships, anguish, and difficult decisions, and modern medical technology gives us the ability to control at least some aspect of this often bleak existence.

The reason many people are against abortion is because our biological imperative to reproduce tells us babies are precious and need to be protected, and they can't develop the sympathy for people who don't want to be a victim of their biology to separate this feeling from their ideology.

Then there are layers of political complexities on top of this.

If abortion isn't murder, then clearly it should be legal. If abortion IS murder, does this really matter? We as a society allow people to be murdered all the time, so who cares if abortion is murder?

8/9/2014 2:20:59 AM

Quote :

"The reason many people are against abortion is because our biological imperative to reproduce tells us babies are precious and need to be protected, and they can't develop the sympathy for people who don't want to be a victim of their biology to separate this feeling from their ideology. "

Meh. It's more about "the Bible says it's wrong!" or "I don't agree with that lifestyle" shit than anything else. Most reasonably intelligent people I've met get that abortion isn't necessarily a 'fun' thing for anyone to have to deal with, but they get that shit happens and that it certainly beats the alternative. Machiavellian, if you will, but it is what it is. On the other hand, 99% of the adult, real world pro-lifers I've come across are super dogmatic about their 'beliefs' and feel as if they're doing 'God's work' or some other sort of nonsense.

Quote :

"Even if there were somehow proof "conception" was THE time life began, or some other time period, do you really thing it would change the debat"

Again, you're kinda proving MY point. There's nothing rational or logical about denying a women the CHOICE to have an abortion- at its core, it's about as belief-based as it gets.

[Edited on August 9, 2014 at 2:46 AM. Reason : .]

8/9/2014 2:44:51 AM

Quote :

"99% of the adult, real world pro-lifers I've come across are super dogmatic about their 'beliefs' and feel as if they're doing 'God's work' or some other sort of nonsense."

The problem is that the bible says a lot of stuff, but you don't see these same people pushing those other things as strongly as abortion. Abortion is an issue, because it likely would exist with or without the bible.

Quote :

" There's nothing rational or logical about denying a women the CHOICE to have an abortion- at its core, it's about as belief-based as it gets. "

If a person believe that it's murder, then it IS rational to be against abortion. The problem is that in the context of our society, this belief isn't really consistent. But our laws aren't even really consistent, and most humans aren't consistent.

And considering there does exist a hypothetical society where being against abortion WOULD be consistent, the issue is going to continue to exist.

When you consider that conservatives don't like nuance*, they prefer simplistic models, then all a conservative thinks is:
murder=wrong
abortion=murder
abortion=wrong

Which is consistent. If you try to explain to conservatives that they support murders that they don't view as wrong, or that there's no objective standard that dictates abortion is murder, that's too much nuance.

Until someone figures out how to simplistically short-circuit this heuristic, you'll always see conservatives gravitating towards being anti-abortion.

* http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBBS%2FBBS37_03%2FS0140525X13001192a.pdf&code=bcd52e6fec64ed6a0244640216120c97

[Edited on August 9, 2014 at 3:03 AM. Reason : ]

8/9/2014 3:02:18 AM

I'm against abortion for the rights of the unborn human (whatever term you want to use)

it's easy to pretend a person never existed when they are unseen except for a medical scan. the fact is they are very much alive. just in a very vulnerable state.

8/9/2014 7:58:14 AM

^What about when that "human" is actually just a collection of a bunch of cells in a little bundle that contains no similarity to an actual human?

Quote :

"The problem is that the bible says a lot of stuff, but you don't see these same people pushing those other things as strongly as abortion. Abortion is an issue, because it likely would exist with or without the bible. "

I guess you haven't noticed, but the religious love to pick and choose what, when, where, and how they will apply their principles. This issue is no different.

8/9/2014 8:48:09 AM

Fundamentalist Christians were okay with abortion until very recently, their religious position is entirely arbitrary

8/9/2014 9:21:20 AM

Quote :

"it's easy to pretend a person never existed when they are unseen except for a medical scan. the fact is they are very much alive. just in a very vulnerable state."

Alive <> person <> human. These are not interchangeable terms. I know I've said this before in this thread though.

8/9/2014 11:15:37 AM

Smath74 just proved my point. There are scientific and medical terms used to signify distinct stages of development, but he plays fast and loose with them to fit his arbitrary moral framework.

Quote :

"I guess you haven't noticed, but the religious love to pick and choose what, when, where, and how they will apply their principles. This issue is no different."

Absolutely. They cherry pick verses to suit their cause and then pretend others never existed (see: slavery, shellfish, misogyny, etc).



[Edited on August 9, 2014 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

8/9/2014 11:41:28 AM

wat?

8/9/2014 2:38:38 PM

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/ectopic-fetus-removed-woman-after-36-years#E7UOJQEEwu5cgM6l.99

A gift from God, 36 years in the making

8/25/2014 10:25:30 PM

Based on the belief that he had an obligation to give a fetus a chance for life, a judge in Washington, D.C., ordered a critically ill 27-year-old woman who was 26 weeks pregnant to undergo a cesarean section, which he understood might kill her. Neither the woman nor her baby survived.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide."

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?_r=0

11/10/2014 1:37:29 PM

The last two are ridiculous. The first, well I didn't read the article but did the father have any input in the decision?

11/10/2014 3:27:06 PM

i'm curious, what difference would that make?

[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 3:33 PM. Reason : llh]

11/10/2014 3:33:21 PM

11/19/2014 12:08:38 PM